OOC Discussion and shit

[AyeGill]

For your out of character needs.

[sirpercival]

Awesome pics. 

[Harald]

Let's see... A Tzeentch cultist/mago, pink horrors, a Jade wizard, a Metal wizard, and an high-elf Mage. Am I right ?

[AyeGill]

I'm just trying to create a facsimile of what the campaign will deteriorate into within the first two rounds. Although perhaps this image would be better:

Let's see... A Tzeentch cultist/mago, pink horrors, a Jade wizard, a Metal wizard, and an high-elf Mage. Am I right ?

Seems accurate.

[sirpercival]

Lol.

Hey Aye, how do you want to treat spellbooks since we're starting above level 1?

[HeadofVecna]

Are we using multiclass xp penalties?

[AyeGill]

No multiclass XP penalties
Spellbooks: As normal? You get some spells for free by leveling up your wizard casting, any extras will have to be scribed at the cost of your infinite money.

Also, it's time for
The Unreasonable Banhammer
Where I ban things that I find will make the game less fun, and you get really mad and swear at me.

Number One: Ice Assassin. My problem with Ice Assassin is that it has no upper bounds. You can use Legend Lore to find out about the most powerful dude in the world, and create a clone of him. Don't worry, HeadofVecna, Nom can still have most of the abilities you've started him with. Which brings us to
Number Two: Your Greater Doppelganger brain. With Ice Assasin out of the way, I'm having a hard time seeing how you managed to find and beat a Greater Doppelganger. Greater Doppelgangers are, as we know, completely broken if they use Consume Identity smartly. Which these do.
Number Three: Ransom's Bracelet of Celerity. We all agreed to not turn this into celerity rocket tag. Turning the game into Celerity rocket tag is the only function of this item.

[HeadofVecna]

Well that changes everything. But I have to admit it is reasonable 

[sirpercival]

No problem.  Are you axing celerity entirely? (Not unreasonable.)

EDIT: Also... what are the limits on Shadow Miracle?  Ransom is duplicating the effects of asking a deity for something awesome... no actual deity involved.

[McPoyo]

Well that changes everything. But I have to admit it is reasonable 

there's still ways around that limitations, it just requires an interesting bit of workaround to do it. For instance, how fresh does the greater dopplegager brain need to be? Just pay for one, i'm pretty sure someone, somewhere, would quest to kill one and get paid.

[McPoyo]

No problem.  Are you axing celerity entirely? (Not unreasonable.)

EDIT: Also... what are the limits on Shadow Miracle?  Ransom is duplicating the effects of asking a deity for something awesome... no actual deity involved.

doesn't seem different than making a Wish at that point, just bypassing the xp component, aren't you?

[sirpercival]

No problem.  Are you axing celerity entirely? (Not unreasonable.)

EDIT: Also... what are the limits on Shadow Miracle?  Ransom is duplicating the effects of asking a deity for something awesome... no actual deity involved.

doesn't seem different than making a Wish at that point, just bypassing the xp component, aren't you?

Except that he has control over what happens, since he's controlling the illusion...

[McPoyo]

No problem.  Are you axing celerity entirely? (Not unreasonable.)

EDIT: Also... what are the limits on Shadow Miracle?  Ransom is duplicating the effects of asking a deity for something awesome... no actual deity involved.

doesn't seem different than making a Wish at that point, just bypassing the xp component, aren't you?

Except that he has control over what happens, since he's controlling the illusion...

My point was that it's still limited by the bounds of the spell, CL shenanigans don't allow him to really do anything he already couldn't. Doesn't seem at different than a wish once you remove the limitations of certain things costing xp.

[HeadofVecna]

Well that changes everything. But I have to admit it is reasonable 

there's still ways around that limitations, it just requires an interesting bit of workaround to do it. For instance, how fresh does the greater dopplegager brain need to be? Just pay for one, i'm pretty sure someone, somewhere, would quest to kill one and get paid.

Well it may be a matter of power level rather than access. If its just access, Nom could probably take out an ethereal doppelganger then trade with a greater doppelganger. The brain of a Body out  of Body clone for access to the greater's abilities would be win-win for everyone (well everyone but the clone).

[ariasderros]

My point was that it's still limited by the bounds of the spell, CL shenanigans don't allow him to really do anything he already couldn't. Doesn't seem at different than a wish once you remove the limitations of certain things costing xp.

This is how I / anyone I've ever played with IRL treats Miracle anyway. Just that anything like granting the inherent bonus would normally cost the XP, which you don't have to worry about. The secondary validation for this is the fact that any magic item that requires Wish as a prerequisite also offers Miracle as an alternative, again with the archetypal example being the inherent bonuses.

This is going to be another thing that requires DM interpretation though.

Well it may be a matter of power level rather than access. If its just access, Nom could probably take out an ethereal doppelganger then trade with a greater doppelganger. The brain of a Body out  of Body clone for access to the greater's abilities would be win-win for everyone (well everyone but the clone).

+1 to eating clones. Also, if need be there is also the Burrow Root in MM5, which has the best worded split quality I know of.


Also, assumptions I'm working off of with enforced transparency from Magic Mantle means...
A) Manifester Level = Caster Level. The main occurrence of this being having half my manifesting class levels being applied to Ur-Priest.
B) That I could RoS Dispel Psionics.

Assumptions I'm going off of in general...
A) It is possible to "counter-manifest" at all. XPH is silent on this issue.
B) I can use Dispel Psionics to counterspell spells or powers in the same way as Dispel Magic could.

[AyeGill]

Well that changes everything. But I have to admit it is reasonable 

there's still ways around that limitations, it just requires an interesting bit of workaround to do it. For instance, how fresh does the greater dopplegager brain need to be? Just pay for one, i'm pretty sure someone, somewhere, would quest to kill one and get paid.

Well it may be a matter of power level rather than access. If its just access, Nom could probably take out an ethereal doppelganger then trade with a greater doppelganger. The brain of a Body out  of Body clone for access to the greater's abilities would be win-win for everyone (well everyone but the clone).

The Greater Doppelgangers in this world are pretty happy about their monopoly on the utter gamebreaking that is Consume Identity. It's not impossible that one would trade with you, but generally they're probably loath to do so.

Don't sweat it, though. Tracking down a Greater Doppelganger to eat is a great quest hook.

[HeadofVecna]

Well eating one after game start wouldn't help, since Nom's Acquire Special Quality abilities will already be set. But so long as Ethereal Doppelganger is OK, I guess I could keep the slot open that way. Also is Phaerimm out? How about class abilities set at lvl 20 (or failing that 16)? Dweomerkeeper would sub in for Phaerimm pretty well. And I had forgotten that the Legacy Champion could have also been a caster. The wording on Acquire Class Feature with regard to casters arguably allows for a feature+casting.

[AyeGill]

Well eating one after game start wouldn't help, since Nom's Acquire Special Quality abilities will already be set. But so long as Ethereal Doppelganger is OK, I guess I could keep the slot open that way. Also is Phaerimm out? How about class abilities set at lvl 20 (or failing that 16)? Dweomerkeeper would sub in for Phaerimm pretty well. And I had forgotten that the Legacy Champion could have also been a caster. The wording on Acquire Class Feature with regard to casters arguably allows for a feature+casting.

Phaerimm is in.

[Harald]

Currently cleaning up the character, and adding the equipment.
I've swapped the 3 wizard levels for factotum, to get some weapon profiency (a Kodiak not proficient with a sword or an axe ? Non-sense !), more skills, some Intelligence synergy, and a large boost to initiative, as well to give some "martial" aspect to the character. Cheese is good, but it is better with some nice, flavorful wine.
the portrait is going on.

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the man next to her is giving the scale, he is 1,75 meter tall. She will be armoured : a nice mithral breastplate like this

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It is for background purpose : among the kodiak, a metal armor is a sign of wealth, power and fame.

[ariasderros]

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My point was that it's still limited by the bounds of the spell, CL shenanigans don't allow him to really do anything he already couldn't. Doesn't seem at different than a wish once you remove the limitations of certain things costing xp.

This is how I / anyone I've ever played with IRL treats Miracle anyway. Just that anything like granting the inherent bonus would normally cost the XP, which you don't have to worry about. The secondary validation for this is the fact that any magic item that requires Wish as a prerequisite also offers Miracle as an alternative, again with the archetypal example being the inherent bonuses.

This is going to be another thing that requires DM interpretation though.

(click to show/hide)

Also, assumptions I'm working off of with enforced transparency from Magic Mantle means...
A) Manifester Level = Caster Level. The main occurrence of this being having half my manifesting class levels being applied to Ur-Priest.
B) That I could RoS Dispel Psionics.

Assumptions I'm going off of in general...
A) It is possible to "counter-manifest" at all. XPH is silent on this issue.
B) I can use Dispel Psionics to counterspell spells or powers in the same way as Dispel Magic could.

So, Ayegill, any ruling on these things? Can Sir Percival use Miracle as though it were Wish (albeit with the spell emulation switched as per the description)? Are my assumptions about the rules correct?