Author Topic: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy  (Read 5579 times)

Offline jeminizero

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Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« on: September 30, 2012, 09:32:30 AM »
A bird a minute,
gives you power unlimited!


And now that I've got your attention with an utterly ridiculous title... This thread is meant to showcase a small Theoretical Optimization trick that has hilarious results (not unlike Spellblade Tennis). And it is surprisingly easy to pull off.

Blood in the Water
Those who use ToB should be familiar with this level 1 Tiger Claw stance. When you score a critical hit against an opponent, you gain a stacking +1 bonus to hit and damage. This can be taken by either a level 1 Warblade or Swordage, or by any character willing to sink 2 feats into Martial Study + Martial Stance.

Coup De Grace
As a fullround action, you can Coup De Grace a helpless creature. This automatically counts as scoring a critical hit. Now if only we had an infinite supply of creatures to Coup De Grace...

Bag Of Tricks
Not truly infinite, but you can still draw up to 10 animals per week for a mere 900 gp. Also, you can only get them to do things covered by Handle Animal, so you need one more step before you can Coup De Grace them. Specifically, you need to knock them out with non-lethal damage. They aren't endless, but they can be used as a stop-gap measure during certain situations.

Malphas
This is a Vestige from Tome of Magic. He can be bound by:
1) A level 3 Binder
2) A level 1 Binder with Improved Binding
3) Any character willing to sink 3 feats into the Bind Vestige chain of feats.

Binding Malphas lets you summon a Raven at will as a standard action. The text states that you control the actions of the bird. So after summoning it, you can have it go to sleep, thereby rendering it helpless. Then you can Coup De Grace it to trigger Blood in the Water as a full round action. Even if you don't allow the Raven to sleep, you can knock it unconscious first with non-lethal damage. This effectively nets you a stacking +1 bonus to attack and damage every 2 or 3 rounds. After a couple of hours, you should be able to drop a Tarrasque with 1 hit. Most characters however, cannot keep this up indefinitely: they usually need to sleep sometime...

Maintaining Frenzy Overnight
Lets say you are playing something that does not need sleep (e.g. a Warforged). Would it be possible to ensure a constant supply of ravens, such that you can keep stacking Blood in the Water bonus day after day after day? Binding a Vestige normally takes a minute to draw the seal, which alone is long enough for Blood in the Water to expire. After that, it requires another minute to carry out the binding, although this second step can be rushed into a full round action at the cost of a -10 penalty to the binding check.

The easiest way to do this is to split the work across 2 party members (and possible even other sentient minions). Have 2 warforged: A Binder (with Improved Binding) and a Warblade. The Binder can spam ravens the whole day for the Warblade to Coup De Grace. When Malphas leaves the Binder, the Binder can (re)start the binding process, which still takes 11 round minimum. In the interim, the Warblade can keep Blood in the Water active, by using a Bag of Tricks. Total Cost: 2x ECL 1 characters and a 900 gp item.

It is also possible to carry out this exploit with just 1 character. The work to draw the seal, can be negated by a Seal Of the Spirit (6k gp). It hence becomes possible to bind Malphas in 2 rounds. You can hence bind Malphas, slaughter ravens for 24 hours, and then bind Malphas again the very next day, before Blood in the Water expires. Total Cost: 1x ECL 2 Warforged with 1 Binder (Improved Binding) / 1 Warblade, and a 6000 gp item.

Chicken Infested
Another potential source of infinite helpless avians. This (in)famous flaw requires at least 1 level in Commoner, and in exchange you can pull out limitless number of Chickens, possibly as a free action. Much like the Bag of Tricks, you have to knock the chickens out first with non-lethal damage, before you can Coup De Grace them.

Unlike Malphas, Chicken Infested is available 24/7 without needing to pause to rebind Vestige. Hence, a Warforged Commoner with this flaw, can supply chickens non-stop, even at level 1. And since this is technically a flaw, it grants our Warforged Commoner a bonus feat, which he can use to buy up Martial Study -> Martial Stance: Blood in the Water feat chain! Total Cost: Level 1 Warforged Commoner, but requires a flaw from Dragon Magazine.

Other Notes
*A Psicrystal technically can take feats. A mid-level Psion can have his Psicrystal bind Malphas. This has the added advantage of limiting Malphas influence to a pet rock.
*If you can get this onto a rabbit (or a Hare Hengyokai), you get the Vorpal Bunny.

Notes/History
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« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 10:46:08 AM by jeminizero »
Trissociate: Homebrew 3.5 Base Class. Make virtually any sort of character you want!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 03:40:25 PM »
Ha, you're providing your own Bag-of-rats.


With 2 flaws , Human / Azuran / Goofyfooted Halfling
a 1st level bonus feat class that could take one of the required feats
can do this.
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 06:03:54 PM »
It looks like you can coup de grace a creature with regeneration with a weapon that doesn't overcome it, and you never actually risk killing the creature. 

Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 11:07:31 PM »
It looks like you can coup de grace a creature with regeneration with a weapon that doesn't overcome it, and you never actually risk killing the creature.

This seems to be the relevant bit:
Quote
Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Thus, you could find yourself a troll and just keep it beaten down until such a point that you can destroy anything.

Offline dman11235

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 12:04:36 AM »
The problem with using a troll or something for this: it's supposed to be portable.  Can't carry around a troll efficiently.  It's not a big obstacle, sure, but it is an obstacle.  If you can find a creature that has regeneration that is small enough to carry around and every 30 seconds have a CdG done to it, then it works just fine.  Also note: if you do a CdG every round, you cannot move from where you are, barring extra actions and swift actions.  So.....

Is there an item or spell that can be made permanent (or is instantaneous) that can move things of significant weight and have it follow you?  I'm thinking something like a Tenser's Floating Disk that you put your damage source on, and have it follow you around.  Start off by getting an arbitrarily high bonus, then every 5 rounds do it again so you live your life pausing what you're doing every half minute to beat up on an unconscious animal you have on a floating disk.  Ironically, this would ensure that you never have to use your ability, since no one would mess with someone so obviously insane.  Even the mindless would know enough to stay away.
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 01:45:33 AM »
The death blow feat (Complete Adventurer) lets you perform a coup de grace as a standard action.  The 5th-level ability of the black blood cultist prestige class (Champions of Ruin) lets you perform a coup de grace as a move action. 

Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 01:57:44 AM »
After having a bit of discussion using this trick on Giantitp, Zombulian pointed something out. Why not use chicken infested in some way? Maybe a merciful weapon and the flaw?

EDIT: Found the fix for the troll issue. Return to Nature. 7th level spell in ECS. Instantaneously reduces a giant by one size.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 02:12:00 AM by Mithril Leaf »

Offline SolEiji

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 04:05:33 AM »
While you're at it, can't you do it while on a horse?  Imagine, mini-troll in hand you keep squeezing to death like a stress ball while you pump up an explosion of death, riding a mount so you don't have to make your own move actions.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 08:04:12 PM »
 :lol ... that's a hilarious picture.

Dude squeezes his Stress Ball to 9000!
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Offline Endarire

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2012, 01:41:44 AM »
You can still take a 5' step, or otherwise move as a swift action.  (See Travel Devotion and Sudden Leap.)

Could you use a Warblade's recovery mechanic to coup de grace something then, the next round, use Sudden Leap to clear some distance?  If so, we've found a new addition to my Hood!  (I call it the Vorpal Bunny Hop.)

Offline jeminizero

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 10:15:14 AM »
With regard movement: You need to Coup De Grace at least 1/minute to maintain Blood in the Water. The raven method costs 2 rounds (or 1 round per creature if done in pairs). Any other method that involves having to knock out the creature first (bag of tricks, chicken infested) can be done in 3 rounds. Hence you can move normally, and just need to pause every few rounds to do pop a raven.

You can of course, also just sit in the back of a mount/wagon or hide within a bag of holding, and have somebody else move you around. That way you can focus on massacre-ing helpless avians and charge up faster. :plotting

After having a bit of discussion using this trick on Giantitp, Zombulian pointed something out. Why not use chicken infested in some way? Maybe a merciful weapon and the flaw?

Hmm... I will make a note of this. Thanks.  :)
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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2012, 01:44:00 AM »
Fun fact, Book Of Exalted Deeds recommends that you repeatedly coup de grace captured regenerating fiends to keep them from teleporting away. Always nice to see something like that acknowledged. Spamming attacks on regenerating monsters you've beat down is now confirmed for RAI  :P