Author Topic: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure  (Read 18744 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2014, 10:54:24 PM »
I feel like Raineh and I are going to go about this completely differently.

I was just going to make a spell-created fortress that would prevent her from getting to me for long enough for the spell to go off, while it seems like Raineh is aiming to actually flat-up kill her first.

Well, my plan amounted to 'try and make her spellcasting useless, and find a way to avoid being stabbity stab stabbed long enough to turn her into a smouldering crater*'. Without some way to increase save DC's, plan A for the first one is gone, so I guess I'm reliant on trying to raise my own saves by some ridiculous amount and reliance on being undead instead.

Though the silly plan is to use Greater Anticipate Teleport to buy time when she's showing up, then use quickened teleport to get away when she does show up. Because it's not ridiculous at all to lead a goddess across Faerun whilst casting something to kill her.

*Not so much because it's necessary as because it saves time.

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2014, 11:44:44 PM »
lol, I have to say I did not anticipate these solutions.

I just thought most people would think "Ten rounds?! That takes forever, I guess it would just be easier to kill her." If these alternate solutions are interesting enough, I may still pick a character that uses them. That being said, if someone creates a solution that has no chance of failure (literally involves no chance element), I will probably not pick it. I'm loath to kill Shar without at least one die roll.

@phaedrusxy: While you may be confident in your solutions, I as a player would not be. They basically all amount to "Don't get hit by annihilating strike in the first place." And there are ways to prevent contingent resurrections. I'm not saying Shar will necessarily employ them, but for me at any rate, I would feel very insecure if my character design relied entirely on simply avoiding my opponent's insta-kill.

In any event, I'll remind the players that Deicide was always optional. You don't have to use it, and I'm open to making tweaks to it.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2014, 11:52:48 PM »
You wouldn't like the silly plan, then. It's basically 'how to kill Shar through epic casting whilst not getting caught'.

Basically it consists of five feats: Epic Spellcasting, Automatic Quicken I-III, and Permanent Emanation (Teleport Anticipation, Greater).

No SR, no saving throw, and I'm alerted if Shar tries to teleport in (and at this CL, she can't actually teleport outside of it and get in range to kill in time to do anything else this round). Oh, and she's delayed three rounds. So I cast Quickened Teleport or something on the third round, and she arrives too late. That's 3/4 rounds down, depending on how you count it. Repeat thrice. :p

Offline Gazzien

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2014, 11:55:00 PM »
You wouldn't like the silly plan, then. It's basically 'how to kill Shar through epic casting whilst not getting caught'.

Basically it consists of five feats: Epic Spellcasting, Automatic Quicken I-III, and Permanent Emanation (Teleport Anticipation, Greater).

No SR, no saving throw, and I'm alerted if Shar tries to teleport in (and at this CL, she can't actually teleport outside of it and get in range to kill in time to do anything else this round). Oh, and she's delayed three rounds. So I cast Quickened Teleport or something on the third round, and she arrives too late. That's 3/4 rounds down, depending on how you count it. Repeat thrice. :p
I was under the impression you couldn't cast swift-action spells in the middle of multiple-round spells?

My plan was bunches of Prismatic Walls, Forcecages, Wall of Stone, etc etc to make a "maze", cover it in Forbiddance, and hope that Shar can't scry through lead.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2014, 11:57:48 PM »
You wouldn't like the silly plan, then. It's basically 'how to kill Shar through epic casting whilst not getting caught'.

Basically it consists of five feats: Epic Spellcasting, Automatic Quicken I-III, and Permanent Emanation (Teleport Anticipation, Greater).

No SR, no saving throw, and I'm alerted if Shar tries to teleport in (and at this CL, she can't actually teleport outside of it and get in range to kill in time to do anything else this round). Oh, and she's delayed three rounds. So I cast Quickened Teleport or something on the third round, and she arrives too late. That's 3/4 rounds down, depending on how you count it. Repeat thrice. :p
I was under the impression you couldn't cast swift-action spells in the middle of multiple-round spells?

My plan was bunches of Prismatic Walls, Forcecages, Wall of Stone, etc etc to make a "maze", cover it in Forbiddance, and hope that Shar can't scry through lead.

If that's the case, Deicide is beyond dull. 'I prepare, do nothing, and hope for the best' does not make for an exciting time.

I have no idea where such rules would be, or what sense they're supposed to make. XD

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2014, 12:31:32 AM »
I'm not necessarily going to rule you out automatically Raineh Daze, but you do seem to be assuming your plan is fool proof. A gate spell wouldn't be affected and would probably be preferred by a deity anyway with its zero chance of misdirection. And Shar can cast it for free with alter reality.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2014, 09:50:15 AM »
I'm not necessarily going to rule you out automatically Raineh Daze, but you do seem to be assuming your plan is fool proof. A gate spell wouldn't be affected and would probably be preferred by a deity anyway with its zero chance of misdirection. And Shar can cast it for free with alter reality.

She also has teleport and plane shift, also with zero chance of misdirection. So using Gate first seems odd, since it's highly visible.

Thinking about it, one of the things that I'd probably want to avoid would be Shar summoning allies somehow*. What seeds would it take to create a spell redirecting all incoming summoning or calling effects within ~half a mile for safety to somewhere less troublesome to me, like a mile above Waterdeep? Reflect and Banish? Banish and Conjure? @_@

*I aim to either keep this a relatively fair contest, or have a numerical advantage. :p
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 09:55:53 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2014, 08:35:39 PM »
Sorry if this sounds terse, but DMing an epic game is quite enough for me. If you want to create your own epic spells, try and follow the rules as closely as possible from the ELH, then present me with a rough draft.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2014, 08:58:17 PM »
Annoyingly, there doesn't seem to be a way to have any sort of repeating area-based effect, since it automatically uses the shortest time, and anything to do with teleportation is instantaneous (or up to five rounds, but that's time-based). Thus making Dimensional Anchor, Gate, and Maze impossible to create as epic spells as they're teleportation effects without an instantaneous duration. : |

If it could use the Ward duration instead (i.e., to set up an area that things get tossed out of):

Seeds: Transport + Ward. Factors: change effect to area (20' radius), double area 8 times (upping it to about a mile). DC: 110 (miiight have miscalculated this), anything non-friendly in the area has to make a saving throw or be teleported a mile above Waterdeep, mostly because this is an amusing side effect. Mitigation: one ninth-level caster (-17), then add +20 to the save DC, leading to a spellcraft DC of 133 (also conveniently what my mental estimate for the non-insanely buffed spellcraft check this character would get on a 1).

The only other option is some ad hoc Ward adjustment
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:46:30 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2014, 12:36:06 AM »
I will consider this with a more experienced friend of mine. In the meantime, I would continue coloring in the other parts of your character...

Particular the as of yet very colorless background. Are you going lich btw? Are you sticking with the class progression you last posted?

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2014, 12:42:45 AM »
The background's bland because I need to brush up on FR history after Karsus screwed up but before the present. Also because it's not done. :lmao

Sorcerer 27/Incantatrix 10/Cleric 5/Walker in the Waste 10? Yes. Thus ending up as a dry lich, which is ideally suited to sorcery, because they're one of the few things that gets Cha to HP. Also fun, fun phylacteries (well, their internal organs, which function as the same thing).

Speaking of which, there's five of them. Ought to work out where they're stashed and the defences around each.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 12:45:11 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2014, 04:42:32 AM »
Not to ruin your parade, but in Pathfinder all undead get CHA to HP.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2014, 10:05:17 AM »
Still get five phylacteries and some other stuff. :lmao

I suppose I wouldn't get twice the number of bonus HP?

Quote
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution(such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).

One's CHA as a CON substitute.

Quote
Unholy Toughness (Ex): A dry lich gains a bonus to its hit points equal to its Charisma bonus (minimum +1) times its Hit Dice.

One has the same effect but is actually a bonus.

Hm, how does PF deal with undead HD? Is it straight d8's, or do class HD replace that? :O

And another question: what's the limit on the value of any single item we can have? And wealth limit in general?

And can we subtract 3 from all non-PF skill rank prerequisites? For instance, every epic thing after 25 spellcraft.*

*And should I get two epic bonus feats, as per 3.5 and my sorcerer levels?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 10:58:53 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2014, 02:06:24 PM »
I would say the point of Pathfinder's revision was effectively to give all undead Unholy Toughness. That being said, with it being such a good ability, I might consider a CR reduction.

Class level hit dice will not be replaced with undead's d8s.

I need to calculate that. I certainly wouldn't mind help on this. Otherwise it will take awhile. IMO though the better magic items aren't actually that expensive. For now, I would spend extravagantly.

Yes, most requirements drop by 3 in Pathfinder.

I'm not sure what you mean by two epic bonus feats.

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2014, 02:09:30 PM »
There may be some confusion here. To clarify, Deicide takes 10 rounds to come into effect, not to cast, which is 1 round.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2014, 02:16:21 PM »
Basically, an Epic X in 3.5 will get a few bonus feats. As a sorcerer 27, I'd get two of them. Since PF's stuff cuts out at 20..

Ah, that broadens my options considerably. I actually have standard actions, for one. >_>;

+8 enhancement bonus item is 640,000, for what it's worth. Epic items are for some reason ten times the cost of non-epic ones regardless of what they're doing.

The dry lich template.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 02:17:53 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2014, 09:09:30 PM »
Yeah, you'd get 2 feats.

Your better off with transmutation spells for ability boosts. Like "Bite of X."

Concerning epic prices, it's like approaching the speed of light. Your acceleration gets less and less because it's harder to do.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 09:14:12 PM by professorgear »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2014, 09:16:02 PM »
That's not going to help with bonus spells, save DC's, or relevant skill checks. I'm playing a sorcerer, remember? :p

Hell, it doesn't even help with most of my saves.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 09:18:08 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2014, 02:13:55 AM »
I said LIKE that spell, not that spell exactly. There's Nixie's Grace.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2014, 09:34:28 AM »
Concluded another way to deal with Shar that is unimaginative and insanely overkill.

Twinned Repeating Arcane Fusion + Quickened Twinned Repeating Arcane Fusion, both containing Twinned Repeating Intensified Orb of Force and Twinned Repeating Arcane Fusion, containing Twinned Repeating Intensified Orb of Force and... True Strike, I guess? Not sure if that affect everything.

~2700 damage turn one, at least 5400 turn two, and another 2700 turn three.

The fact epic stuff can reduce ALL metamagic to +1, and then Arcane Thesis can take it down to 0... :lmao

The other way to do this is to cast Deicide, wait for Shar to arrive, cast Celerity, hit her with just one of those spells before she can act. Alter Reality takes a standard action, so unless she has Celerity on her spell list, she can't counter that.

Also, the answer to the question 'what could you possibly attack that needs that sort of damage beforehand' is abominations from before time.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 10:47:15 AM by Raineh Daze »