Author Topic: Pure Crafting  (Read 61324 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #140 on: April 24, 2013, 02:33:36 AM »
Quote
Plus, you get either:
- Ignore miss chances on a 20 (which beats Mirror Image, a really annoying spell at low levels).
- Ghost Touch (not all that useful at level 2)
- No one can cast defensively next to you, more difficult concentration DCs, ignore miss chance on a critical.
- Twice as many AoOs, and AoOs automatically threaten a critical.
- Ignore half DR (not useful at level 2)

So... on a natural 20, you beat a spell that's effectively a 'screw you'? Seems fine. As does a wizard not being able to cast literally five feet away from you without trouble.

Also: Combat Reflexes.

Offline zioth

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #141 on: April 24, 2013, 08:33:28 AM »
Magical Material bonuses can only be accessed by a character with BAB 4 or greater. I have mentioned this several times.

And I've forgotten it several times. :) I can't actually find this restriction in the original post, but I'll take your word for it.
 
So maybe level 4 would be a better comparison, at which point the AC bonuses are higher, and you can afford the masterwork items, which can give you fortification, rerolls, immunity to energy drain and ability damage, save bonuses, magic weapon negation, freedom of movement, permanent haste, etc. All of these are better than what 4th level magic items and three bonus fighter feats can get you.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #142 on: April 24, 2013, 08:49:14 AM »
And I've forgotten it several times. :) I can't actually find this restriction in the original post, but I'll take your word for it.

Here it is (right before the material bonuses spoiler):

Quote
Depending on the type of metal of the item, it will gain extra bonus as detailed below, plus extra bonus depending on their quality grade, in addition to any bonus granted by the normal version of the material. But material-specific benefits are only granted if the wearer has actual proficiency on the weapon/armor/shield plus Bab at least equal to the number of ranks needed to create that grade of item ( basic-4, masterwork-8, Relicwork-12, Artifactwork-16, Phantasmwork-20).


So maybe level 4 would be a better comparison, at which point the AC bonuses are higher, and you can afford the masterwork items, which can give you fortification, rerolls, immunity to energy drain and ability damage, save bonuses, magic weapon negation, freedom of movement, permanent haste, etc. All of these are better than what 4th level magic items and three bonus fighter feats can get you.

And at which point the characters with class features have considerably more actual class features. 4 is an interesting cut off since it's the level before full casters/ inititators get 3rd level spells/ maneuvers but even without those, I don't see things being much different with the party of warriors.

It's also worth mentioning here that pure crafting vs fighter is really not an appropriate comparison because the fighter is a severely underpowered class and thus a poor balance point.

In any case, your original question was when does the balance start to tip from being weighted towards pure crafting to being weighted away from it and my answer is that it doesn't start out in favor or end up against. The balance see saws about a bit over the levels but there's no trend that continues for more than a level or two at any point.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #143 on: July 06, 2013, 12:44:13 PM »
Can pure metal arrows be fired from magical bows?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #144 on: July 06, 2013, 02:46:27 PM »
Yes, but they won't benefit from any of the magic properties of said bow.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #145 on: July 06, 2013, 11:39:10 PM »
Can you make a bow out of pure metal?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #146 on: July 19, 2013, 12:18:05 PM »
Hmm, sure, why not? Fire Emblem has Iron/Steel/Silver bows after all.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #147 on: July 21, 2013, 10:22:25 PM »
What happens if you fire Pure Metal arrows (let's say Pure Cold Iron) from a bow made of a different Pure Metal (let's say Pure Mithral)? Do you get the effects of both Pure Metals? Is it a different answer if you don't have the Pure Crafting feat?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #148 on: July 22, 2013, 02:47:32 PM »
Hmm, that would be a bit too strong, so I put a clause against it.

Having the Pure Crafting feat never changes your ability to wield pure metal, just makes it easier to get it yourself.

On another note, can anyone think of other "iconic" metal in fantasy? I was thinking of brass or bronze, but those are tecnically alloys of diferent metals.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #149 on: July 22, 2013, 02:50:05 PM »
Well, this. The only other random obscure metal I can think of is quicksilver and that's hardly any use for this. Though I suppose a mercury weapon could reshape itself...

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #150 on: July 23, 2013, 08:44:44 AM »
Hmm, that sounds like a workable idea.

Searching a bit about Orichalcum around the net, it sounds more like super-bronze, so I was thinking I could make it electricity-based.

Which would also mean I would need metals for other elements. Mercury could have acid as a subtheme since that stuff's corrosive.

Perhaps I could start adding some nonmetals as well. Onyx for fire stuff for example. Blue Ice for cold.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #151 on: July 23, 2013, 08:47:57 AM »
At least filling out my Ancient Greek hero's inventory isn't going to be terribly difficult at this rate... :lmao

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #152 on: July 23, 2013, 08:59:34 AM »
List of Special Materials in D&D

Looking over it, some avenues of expansion might be:
   Truesteel (and variants)
   Starmetal
   Pandemonic Silver
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 09:06:19 AM by FireInTheSky »

Offline veekie

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2013, 09:15:45 AM »
There's also Lead as the metal of the underworld and Copper as one of the earliest metals worked. Tin and Zinc, not so sure...
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #154 on: July 23, 2013, 10:43:36 AM »
Pure Mercury added. Corrosion, Insanity and SCIENCE! Alchemy!

List of Special Materials in D&D

Looking over it, some avenues of expansion might be:
   Truesteel (and variants)
   Starmetal
   Pandemonic Silver
I thank you for pointing that list out, however I'm keeping to my homebrew philosophy of "Don't demand the reader extra material that isn't readily available on the net". That's one of the reasons I pointed out Blue Ice, since it's made available by Wotc.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #155 on: July 23, 2013, 10:59:45 AM »
Well, the extra functions for Pure Mercury seem very handy. I would like to note that you've got the labels for the alchemical stuff backwards in one case--it's going masterwork -> artifactwork -> relicwork -> phantasmwork.

Quote
Pure Mercury-The shackled creature doesn't remember what hapened to them while shackled up to 1 minute ago as Mercury vapors make it hard to think properly. Removing the shackles won't bring those memories back unless a Limited Wish, Wish or Miracle is applied, altough memories before the shackles being applied remain normal all the while.

Wording needs work. 'While shackled up to 1 minute ago'? :huh

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2013, 11:32:22 AM »
Fixed the alchemy progression.

My intention with the shackles was that you can't remember anything that hapened more than one minute ago while they're on. Put in a new wording, hopefully better.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #157 on: November 13, 2013, 02:00:48 PM »
Cut down the crafting price for phantasmwork to 70 000 GP. That way you can actually afford a full set at level 20.

Also upgraded the artifactwork and phantasmwork versions of all weapons so that they can freely start choping off limbs with the relicwork version if the enemy is below 25% or 50% max HP, respectively.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2014, 11:35:28 AM »
I just finished looking over this in a bit more detail and... wow... that stuff is hot! :P

If I understand this correctly, having a masterwork pure mythril tower shield, pure mythril plate mail, and pure mythril weapon would give the following benefits:

Armor/Shield
no max Dex to AC or slow movement for using heavy armor
no attack penalty from tower shield
Freedom of Movement + Haste, 24/7
add half BAB to AC (stacking for armor and shield?)
character gets hardness equal to half armor bonus (stacking for armor and shield?)
half armor bonus (stacking for armor and shield?) added to touch AC

Weapon
damage as one size larger
natural 1 isn't an automatic miss
add BAB to damage

And it looks like it would only "cost" 200 gp more per piece, so a total of 600 extra gp. Meaning you could afford this as early as level 3ish. Let's say we slap this on a level 4 crusader or warblade. In total, we'd get:

+10 armor bonus
+6 shield bonus
+8 to touch AC
+4 damage (average, if on a greatsword)
Freedom of Movement
Haste
Hardness 8 (or 5, if they don't stack)

Numbers wise, I think this guy is going to clearly come out ahead of a warblade/crusader 4 who isn't using Pure Crafting items.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #159 on: April 08, 2014, 11:41:27 AM »
You can't get MW benefits until level 8.

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Depending on the type of metal of the item, it will gain extra bonus as detailed below, plus extra bonus depending on their quality grade, in addition to any bonus granted by the normal version of the material. But material-specific benefits are only granted if the wearer has actual proficiency on the weapon/armor/shield plus Bab at least equal to the number of ranks needed to create that grade of item ( basic-4, masterwork-8, Relicwork-12, Artifactwork-16, Phantasmwork-20).

You'd be getting the extra basic stuff only, at that level.

Good deal if you can't use any magical abilities at all, though (and have no plans to). Though unless you're a fighter, you have to pick and choose which benefits you get. :lmao