Author Topic: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5  (Read 16191 times)

Offline Emperor Tippy

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The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« on: April 21, 2012, 07:35:44 AM »
To the best of my knowledge, the only two known ways to get every ability in the game are through the use of Manipulate Form or Illithid Savant.

Here's a third way to do it that makes use of neither.

First, how to do it as a psion.

Step 1: Be at least level 17 and know the power Greater Metamorphosis.
Step 2: Use Greater Metamorphosis to change into a Lilitu (FC1, page 43).
Step 3: Use your Item Use (Ex) ability to use a scroll of gate to gate in a Solar.
Step 4: Order the Solar to Wish you up a scroll of Ice Assassin of a Psionic Elder Brain with the powers Fusion, Psionic Restoration, Mindwipe, and Astral Seed on his powers known list (as it's a scroll this gets around the need for a material component for Ice Assassin)
Step 5: Use your Item Use ability to activate the scroll.
Step 6: Catch 3 humanoid creatures of at least 8 HD and paralyze them, bring them down to 1 HP, and place them by you.
Step 7: Order your IA Elder Brain to use Fusion with you and to immediately relinquish control to you one it is manifested.
Step 8: Use Greater Metamorphosis to turn into a Barghest.
Step 9: Use Mindwipe on yourself to give yourself  19 negative levels (might require repeated manifestations).
Step 10: Use your Feed ability to consume the humanoids from step 6.
Step 11: Manifest Psionic Restoration to clear away your negative levels.
Step 12: Manifest Astral Seed.
Step 13: Kill yourself.
Step 14: Rebuild your body, you now have all the abilities of the fusion (including Ex, SU, and SP).
Step 15: Use your Item Use ability to gate in another Solar and this time have it Wish up a scroll of Ice Assassin of an Elder Phaerimm with the spells Ice Assassin, and Wish on it's list of spells known.
Step 16: Use the IA scroll.
Step 17: Repeat the above to gain all of the Phaerimm's abilities, most especially it's ability to cast as a 19th level Sorcerer and have it's spells be treated as spell like abilities.
Step 18: Create IA's of every creature and class, repeating the process as necessary and using shapechange to get the monsters that wouldn't qualify for Fusion to qualify.

Once you have done all that, create an IA of a Greater Deity. Use Fusion on it and then kill yourself after manifesting Astral Seed. You loose an HD (can't hit deities with negative levels) but that is a small price to pay for 20 divine ranks.

The last IA should be an Aleax Ice Assassin of your original body (unless you know longer want that base form, in which case choose whichever base form you want instead). Have it use it's shapechange ability to loose the construct type by shifting into the base form you want. Use Fusion with it (taking on it's physical form) and then cast an epic spell that is loaded down with backlash damage, as much as you can. This is the only way to kill an Aleax who's singular enemy isn't around. Once you remake your body you will have the base form you want, multiple copies of every single ability in the game, 20 divine ranks, and be totally immune to all harm except Epic spell backlash damage.

If you want to pick up Manipulate Form and Illithid Savant, feel free for the complete set but you don't need to use them in any way.

---
I call this the Path of Ascension.

Offline jywu98

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 11:30:20 AM »
Has been done before at level 3, if the build below works
Quote from: The Very Best of CO
Amaranth
The Savant Priest
AncientDragon
Build:
Illumian (Aeshnoon) [2 Flaws]
1. Wizard - Heighten Spell[Standard], Sanctum Spell[Flaw], Eschew Materials[Flaw]
2. Cleric
3. Wizard - Extra Slot[Standard]
Infinite Gold: Buy a scroll of "Flash to Salt" and a cow.
Cast the cow on the spell. No, -er, cast the spell on the cow.
Sell that ton of salt you have.
Profit.
*Thanks to *Unknown* for this trick
Relevant Equipment:
Nightsticks (LB), Prayer Bead (Karma)(DMG), Ring of Arcane Might(MIC), Robe of Arcane Might(MIC),
Ambrosia(BoED), Terran Brandy(BoVD), Vial of the Last Gasp(CV), Ioun Stone(DMG), Agony(BoVD), Band of Spell
Enanchment(RavenL)
*Thanks to Plys4mne. Without his Raising Caster Level index i would not have done this.
Raise:
9th Level Sanctum Spell: Thanks to the our Illumian Sigil we can Heighten our spells until level 9 sacrificing uses of
turn undead granted from Nighsticks. Thanks to Sanctum Spell we can improve the level of the spell by 1, making
them actually of level 10 (all this at level 1). Now, wait until level 3 and take Extra Slot to gain a 9th level spell slot.
*Thanks to Disposable_Hero for this trick (improved by AncientDragon)
Eschew Materials eXtreme Cheese Thanks to Eschew Materials you can cast Ice Assassin without needing to get a
"piece" of the person you're copying. This means that you can copy any person in the world.
Limitless Manifesting Capability: Duplicate a Psion 10/ Metamind 10 with Ice Assassin and order to the duplicate to
fuse with you. Now manifest Schism and activate Source of Power. Once per round your schismed mind will ready a
swift action: “Temporal Reitaration” and will manifest it before your next turn. This will grant you unlimited power
points and all the effects affecting you will be permanent-like.
Limitless Self-Duplicating: Cast Ice Assassin on you, then ask to your duplicate to cast Ice Assassin on you to get a
fresh clone (for “fresh clone” I mean a clone of yourself with all the daily uses of your abilities etc.)
Infinite Strenght: Cast Consumptive Field and Manifest (both you and one of your duplicates) Sanctum Affinity Field
(out from your sanctum). Kill something in the Consumptive Field: the bonus will bounce between you two, giving both
+infinite strength.
Infinite Stats: Duplicate a Void Disciple for each of your stats and have them to use Void Grant on you, once for each
stat.
Limitless Time: Cast Temporal Acceleration. Thanks to Temporal Reitaration (always being manifested by your
second mind) this effect will never end. This allows you to summon and fuse with every creature in the world without
spending all your lifetime doing that.
Limitless Supernatural Casting: Duplicate a Any/Dweomerkeeper 4 with Ice Assassin and fuse with him. Now fresh
clones will have supernatural casting ability.
7
All Spells, Feats, Monster/Race/Class Abilities: Duplicate anyone/anything and fuse with it, after using
Shapechange to acquire the size and the type you need. Thanks to Temporal Reitaration all this effects are
permanent-like. Thanks to Temporal Reitaration + Temporal Acceleration you don’t need more than a round to acquire
every ability in the game.
NI Divine Rank:
Have a copy of yours casting Ice Assassin as Supernatural Ability, creating a god. Have the god giving us Divine Rank
1. Give the divine rank to a squirrell
[...Repeat NI times...]
Take back all your Divine Ranks from squirrels.
*Thanks to Khan the Destroyer for this trick
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 10:48:37 PM by jywu98 »

Offline Emperor Tippy

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 12:07:16 PM »
That presupposes that Fusion's can use Fusion.

It would also be shut down the instant you got in range of anyone with Temporal Repair up. Or if you ever did anything but keep your Schism working 24/7. Those are limitations that this doesn't suffer from.

Offline jywu98

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 12:28:19 PM »
That presupposes that Fusion's can use Fusion.

It would also be shut down the instant you got in range of anyone with Temporal Repair up. Or if you ever did anything but keep your Schism working 24/7. Those are limitations that this doesn't suffer from.
SDA Alter Reality to make the Fusion permanent. Fusion states that Fission cannot be used with it, but stated nothing about not being able to Fusion while in Fusion.

Offline Emperor Tippy

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 12:37:55 PM »
SDA Alter Reality to make the Fusion permanent.
No it can't. Alter Reality can only make permanent spells or supernatural effects. It can't do anything with Psionics. Carefully read both the SDA rules and the Magic/Psionic transparency rules. "Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency. "

SDA's aren't spells, spell-like abilities, or even magical. They don't get covered under transparency.

Quote
Fusion states that Fission cannot be used with it, but stated nothing about not being able to Fusion while in Fusion.
That is technically correct.

Offline Solo

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 01:24:29 PM »
SDA Alter Reality to make the Fusion permanent. Fusion states that Fission cannot be used with it, but stated nothing about not being able to Fusion while in Fusion.
Yo dawg, I heard you liked Fusion...
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Offline altpersona

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 01:42:35 PM »
step 13 to 14 seems to be missing something.

are you using an unstated mechanic, or am i overlooking something?

just how do you perform 14 once you 13?

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Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 01:48:25 PM »
step 13 to 14 seems to be missing something.

are you using an unstated mechanic, or am i overlooking something?

just how do you perform 14 once you 13?

It's in the description of Astral Seed.
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Offline Solo

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 01:50:19 PM »
Is there a way to get rid of the negative level resulting from Astral Seed?
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 02:09:47 PM »
SDA Alter Reality to make the Fusion permanent.
No it can't. Alter Reality can only make permanent spells or supernatural effects. It can't do anything with Psionics. Carefully read both the SDA rules and the Magic/Psionic transparency rules. "Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency. "

SDA's aren't spells, spell-like abilities, or even magical. They don't get covered under transparency.
Magic Mantle allows it to work.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 03:06:38 PM »
Ninja'd by Bastian the ninja.


So instead of a Fusion and a PAO, and being * to a dispel,
this is going with a Fusion and "stuff" and an Astral Seed.
Any of the Dreamscarred guys around, to comment on Astral Seed?

Has been done before at level 3, if the build below works
Quote from: The Very Best of CO
Amaranth
The Savant Priest
AncientDragon
Build:
Illumian (Aeshnoon) [2 Flaws]
1. Wizard - Heighten Spell[Standard], Sanctum Spell[Flaw], Eschew Materials[Flaw]
2. Cleric
3. Wizard - Extra Slot[Standard]

*Thanks to Plys4mine. Without his Raising Caster Level index i would not have done this.
iirc - there was a minor hashout, about Cleric at 1, and Wizard at 2 and taking Extra Slot there.
I may not remember correctly.

And it took everybody a long time to figure out how to (copy+paste) remember "psly4mne".
(wink)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 03:00:48 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline jywu98

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 09:16:21 PM »
What was the hashout? Oh, and I fixed plys4mne's name. :D

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2012, 03:05:48 PM »
By-the-way ... the Breaking The Core thread has
yet another way of getting lots and lots of abilities. 
The "problem" with that build is it can't get the (su) into (ex).
It still gets all the (ex) and (su) available.



Illumian (Aeshnoon) [2 Flaws]
1. Cleric - Heighten Spell[Standard], Sanctum Spell[Flaw], Eschew Materials[Flaw]
** during 1 ... buy all those little items from the local Magic Mart , might need a gold loop
2. Wizard - Extra Slot

Pretty much that.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Scottzar

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 09:39:53 PM »
Manipulate form and illithid savant are by no means the ways which you can get all abilities. This has been done, in core, multiple years ago.
It's been done with:
Fusion, like 3 times by the same guy.
Shapechange + Simulacrum familiars in core.
Those mind stealing doppelganger thingies.
etc etc
Assume that any rules statements I make are under full RAW.
Common sense, game balance, or an enjoyable experience need not apply.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: The Path of Ascension: The Second most broken build in 3.5
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 09:25:26 AM »
Yeah, nearly all of this was hashed out in the Breaking the Core thread, using the Fusion + Simulacrum, and including your Shapechanged familiar in the fusion. I don't think we ever got it to work to completion in Core only, though (no Fusion, no creatures with odd racial casting like the Phaerimm, no Ice Assassin). There were a few things that we couldn't get.

Edit: And... there's some thread necromancy for you. :P Sorry, didn't realize how old this was. No one's posting in this section much, eh?
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