101
The PBMC Metacompendium / Mark of Cania
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:53:28 PM »
only stacks up to 10 times.
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102
The PBMC Metacompendium / Mantis Leap
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:52:54 PM »
You may only use this feat to jump on one create per round.
103
The PBMC Metacompendium / Lightning Maces is banned
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:52:22 PM »
I can't think of any way to allow it without also having a broken combo sneak in.
104
The PBMC Metacompendium / Fly By Breath
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:51:22 PM »
is a swift, not a free action. No cooking with gas for you.
105
The PBMC Metacompendium / Firre Eladrin
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:50:31 PM »
[BoED170]
May not use feats that consume bardic music uses
May not use feats that consume bardic music uses
106
The PBMC Metacompendium / Timestop & SR
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »
ELH111 has a time stop variant that allows SR with anything that interacts or is going to interact with a time stop or similar spell. This is a great balancing factor and we'll count all time-stopping abilities this way.
107
The PBMC Metacompendium / Res Variant
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:47:10 PM »
Here's a summary of a rather brutal variant in HoH80
Code: [Select]
Every 4th time, it gets it done wrong.
RP: Must compulsively bury every dead sentient creature found, even most hated enemies or:
Mechanical: swap feat & spell known
Mechanical 2: extra 3 hours a night to get a good night's sleep.
108
The PBMC Metacompendium / Gestalt X = Non-Gestalt Y
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:44:00 PM »
The symmetric but slightly too weak gestalt 20 loses 5//5 levels:
1 1//1
2 2//1
3 3//2
4 3//3
5 4//4
6 5//4
7 6//5
8 6//6
9 7//7
10 8//7
11 9//8
12 9//9
13 10//10
14 11//10
15 12//11
16 12//12
17 13//13
18 14//13
19 15//14
20 15//15
or shown incrementally:
1 LR
2 L
3 LR
4 R
5 LR
6 L
7 LR
8 R
9 LR
10 L
11 LR
12 R
13 LR
14 L
15 LR
16 R
17 LR
18 L
19 LR
20 R
The symmetric but slightly too strong gestalt 20 loses 3//4 levels:
1 1//0
2 2//1
3 3//2
4 3//3
5 4//4
6 5//5
7 6//5
8 7//6
9 8//7
10 8//8
11 9//9
12 10//10
13 11//10
14 12//11
15 13//12
16 13//13
17 14//14
18 15//15
19 16//15
20 17//16
or shown incrementally:
1 L
2 LR
3 LR
4 R
5 LR
6 LR
7 L
8 LR
9 LR
10 R
11 LR
12 LR
13 L
14 LR
15 LR
16 R
17 LR
18 LR
19 L
20 LR
The non-symetric but closest to the mark progession:
Regular Gestalt
1 1//1
2 2//2
3 3//2
4 4//3
5 4//4
6 5//5
7 6//5
8 7//6
9 7//7
10 8//8
11 9//8
12 10//9
13 10//10
14 11//11
15 12//12
*16 13//13*
17 14//13
18 15//14
19 15//15
20 16//16
* = the sweet spot before the usual casters have 9th level spells
Someone else's verification. Warning: Long.
1 1//1
2 2//1
3 3//2
4 3//3
5 4//4
6 5//4
7 6//5
8 6//6
9 7//7
10 8//7
11 9//8
12 9//9
13 10//10
14 11//10
15 12//11
16 12//12
17 13//13
18 14//13
19 15//14
20 15//15
or shown incrementally:
1 LR
2 L
3 LR
4 R
5 LR
6 L
7 LR
8 R
9 LR
10 L
11 LR
12 R
13 LR
14 L
15 LR
16 R
17 LR
18 L
19 LR
20 R
The symmetric but slightly too strong gestalt 20 loses 3//4 levels:
1 1//0
2 2//1
3 3//2
4 3//3
5 4//4
6 5//5
7 6//5
8 7//6
9 8//7
10 8//8
11 9//9
12 10//10
13 11//10
14 12//11
15 13//12
16 13//13
17 14//14
18 15//15
19 16//15
20 17//16
or shown incrementally:
1 L
2 LR
3 LR
4 R
5 LR
6 LR
7 L
8 LR
9 LR
10 R
11 LR
12 LR
13 L
14 LR
15 LR
16 R
17 LR
18 LR
19 L
20 LR
The non-symetric but closest to the mark progession:
Regular Gestalt
1 1//1
2 2//2
3 3//2
4 4//3
5 4//4
6 5//5
7 6//5
8 7//6
9 7//7
10 8//8
11 9//8
12 10//9
13 10//10
14 11//11
15 12//12
*16 13//13*
17 14//13
18 15//14
19 15//15
20 16//16
* = the sweet spot before the usual casters have 9th level spells
Someone else's verification. Warning: Long.
Quote from: DavidWL
Background
I think the best way to look at balance is to compare specific builds throughout their range of levels. I would assert that
1) Gestalt costs casters the greatest
2) Gestalt benefits non casters the most
3) Gestalt should be best balanced for Gish.
1 and 2 are pretty obvious, please let me know if you agree with 3.
If so:
At level 2:
Human Paragon 1/Sorcerer 1 ~= Gestalt Fighter 1/Sorcerer 1Conclusion: Roughly equal - perhaps very slightly in favor of the Gestalt(click to show/hide)
At level 5:
Human Paragon 3/Sorcerer 2 ~= Gestalt Fighter 4/Sorcerer 4Conclusion: Roughly equal(click to show/hide)
At level 8:
Human Paragon 3/Sorcerer 2/Eldritch Knight 3 ~= Gestalt Fighter 6/Sorcerer 6Conclusion: Roughly equal(click to show/hide)
At level 13
Human Paragon 3/Sorcerer 2/Eldritch Knight 8 ~= Gestalt Fighter 10/Sorcerer 10Conclusion: Roughly equal, but ...(click to show/hide)
Now it starts to get more complicated as the fact that the gestalt get's lots more special abilities has to be balanced by lower level adjustment.
If we only did +2 LA, the Gestalt would be equal in almost every way and! have more class abilities. With +3 LA the gestalt is basically paying +1 LA for 3 bonus feats. Additionally, the gestalt build isn't that optimal, since a "real" core gestalt would have also dipped in Paladin 2 and/or Barbarian 2 and/or Ranger 2.
At level 18
Human Paragon 3/Sorcerer 5/Eldritch Knight 10 ~= Gestalt Fighter 15/Sorcerer 15I think this is roughly equal ... ~4 bonus feats for a caster level. Perhaps a little strong, but acceptable.(click to show/hide)
At level 20
Human Paragon 3/Sorcerer 7/Eldritch Knight 10 ~= Gestalt Fighter 17/Sorcerer 17Conclusion - this is in favor of the Gestalt. Better BAB, slightly better HP, slightly worse saves, -1 CL, but far better class abilities (~5! bonus feats). I think +3 LA is not enough. bumping it to +4.(click to show/hide)
Conclusion
example:
- from levels 1 - 4 it is +1 LA
- level 5 = +1.5 LA
- from levels 6 - 11 it is +2 LA
- level 12 is +2.5 LA
- from levels 13 - 17 it is +3 LA
- level 18 is + 3.5 LA
- from levels 19 - ... it is +4 LA
If we round down we make the Gestalt stronger relative to a gish, if we round up, we make it weaker relative to a gish. I'd argue to favor strength (balancing closer to a pure caster). This also works well, to simplify ...
Easy simplification - Gestalt is +1 LA per 6 levels.
At low levels a gish often trades 1 CL for BAB / proficiences / feats. (1 CL ~ 1 LA)
At mid levels, there is usually a trade of a 2nd CL for a dual progression class (2 CL ~ 2 LA)
At high levels, there is less of a trade off, but usually the Gestalt starts getting more cool class features (2+ 6 levels of class features per 1 CL)
Do you agree with my method? (Balancing against a gish vs. against a caster or non-caster)?
Do you agree with my judgments? (break points for extra LA?)
Thanks,
David
109
The PBMC Metacompendium / Adding to UA Variants
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:40:44 PM »
This is a list of the UA rules, I find useful (and why). Those that change the game more than your average feat or magic item are marked with a * :
*Alternate Skill System (simpler and more powerful system)
Character Traits (crunch)
Character Flaws (feats)
Spelltouched feats
Weapon Group Feats
Crafting Points (optional, but expensive)
*Armor as DR (that's what it is)
Reserve Points (great for mundane tanks)
Massive Damage (better than the flat 50 limit)
Metamagic components (optional, but expensive)
Legendary Weapons (WoL, lite)
Item Familiars (See the above, but surprisingly more balanced than people think)
Incantations (neat little effects if you want to pay and meet the prereqs)
Honor (small benefits for PCs who decide to play lawful stupid)
*Sanity (Hell yeah, baby. Go read the handbook)
Optional:
Hex Grid
Bull curve rolls
Energy Damage bypasses SR
Level-Independent XP (I'm ambivalent. It's simpler, but the excepts are bad and its video-gamey)
Pretty much all the DMG variants like critical failures or DMG 27's +/-10 for every size above or below medium
These I dissuade others from using (and why):
*Complex skill Checks (DMs can already chain skill checks)
Character Background (Don't turn your PC into an NPC)
Defense bonus (doesn't stack with armor)
*Armor Damage (no one will keep up with this happily)
*Injury (too gritty)
*Vitality & wounds (see above)
*Death and Dying (doesn't work properly with certain things like diehard)
*Action points (shudder)
*Combat facing (3e got beyond that with flanking)
*Variable Modifiers (more dice means a slower game)
*Magic Rating (Additional CL layers are bad, both for PCs and monsters)
Summon monster variants (magical tea party with the lists)
Spontaneous Metamagic (the first kills the 'sudden' line and the second makes ultimate magus sad)
Spell points (also a straight up buff for casters. Poor psions)
*Recharge magic (you can't be serious)
*Contacts (chart-based NPC friend tracking)
Reputation (see the above)
Taint & PrCs (HoH redid it)
Test-based Prereqs (The fluff. The magical tea party. It hurts)
Here are some notes about the more campaign-changing variants you might want to read through:
Players roll the attack rolls, saving throws, or caster level checks (but SR is 10 higher)
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm
Attack Score: 11 + enemy’s attack bonus
Defense Check: 1d20 + character’s AC modifiers
If a player rolls a natural 1 on a defense check, his character’s opponent has scored a threat (just as if it had rolled a natural 20 on its attack roll). Make another defense check; if it again fails to avoid the attack, the opponent has scored a critical hit.
Magic Check: 1d20 + spell level + ability modifer + other modifiers
Fortitude Score: 11 + enemy’s save mod
Spell Resistance Check: 1d20 + SR
Caster Level Score: 11 + attacker’s caster level + modifiers
DR only counts once in a round
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm
except worn physical armor's base armor bonus counts fully towards AC & DR. Shields and Nat too
For non-PCs (NPCs and monsters), but they can still take 10 or 20: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm
Old Threat Range New Threat Range
20 16-18
19-20 15-18
18-20 14-18
17-20 14-18
15-20 13-18
"Any time creatures are encountered in groups of four or more, reduce their CR by 1. For example, a single troll is CR 5, and two trolls are CR 5 each (and thus a EL 7 encounter). But four trolls are only CR 4 each (making a EL 8 encounter).
Monsters with fractional CRs move down to the next lowest fraction when encountered in groups of four or more; the goblin (ordinarily CR 1/2) becomes CR 1/3, for example."
Imagine a spell level penalty to fort saves +
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/massaveDamageThresholdsAndResults.htm#scalingTheSavingThrow
"Another way to tweak the massive damage system is to scale the Fortitude save DC based on the damage taken. For every 10 points of damage dealt by an attack in excess of a character’s massive damage threschold, increase his Fortitude save DC by 2. This rule functions the same regardless of the threshold you choose to use.
For instance, if you use the standard 50-point threshold, a hit that deals 50 to 59 points of damage requires a DC 15 save, 60 to 69 points DC 17, 70 to 79 points DC 19, and so forth. If you use the Constitution-based threshold, a character with a Constitution of 15 would have to make a DC 15 Fortitude save when taking 15 to 24 points from a single attack, DC 17 for 25 to 34 points, DC 19 for 35 to 44 points, and so on."
*Alternate Skill System (simpler and more powerful system)
Character Traits (crunch)
Character Flaws (feats)
Spelltouched feats
Weapon Group Feats
Crafting Points (optional, but expensive)
*Armor as DR (that's what it is)
Reserve Points (great for mundane tanks)
Massive Damage (better than the flat 50 limit)
Metamagic components (optional, but expensive)
Legendary Weapons (WoL, lite)
Item Familiars (See the above, but surprisingly more balanced than people think)
Incantations (neat little effects if you want to pay and meet the prereqs)
Honor (small benefits for PCs who decide to play lawful stupid)
*Sanity (Hell yeah, baby. Go read the handbook)
Optional:
Hex Grid
Bull curve rolls
Energy Damage bypasses SR
Level-Independent XP (I'm ambivalent. It's simpler, but the excepts are bad and its video-gamey)
Pretty much all the DMG variants like critical failures or DMG 27's +/-10 for every size above or below medium
These I dissuade others from using (and why):
*Complex skill Checks (DMs can already chain skill checks)
Character Background (Don't turn your PC into an NPC)
Defense bonus (doesn't stack with armor)
*Armor Damage (no one will keep up with this happily)
*Injury (too gritty)
*Vitality & wounds (see above)
*Death and Dying (doesn't work properly with certain things like diehard)
*Action points (shudder)
*Combat facing (3e got beyond that with flanking)
*Variable Modifiers (more dice means a slower game)
*Magic Rating (Additional CL layers are bad, both for PCs and monsters)
Summon monster variants (magical tea party with the lists)
Spontaneous Metamagic (the first kills the 'sudden' line and the second makes ultimate magus sad)
Spell points (also a straight up buff for casters. Poor psions)
*Recharge magic (you can't be serious)
*Contacts (chart-based NPC friend tracking)
Reputation (see the above)
Taint & PrCs (HoH redid it)
Test-based Prereqs (The fluff. The magical tea party. It hurts)
Here are some notes about the more campaign-changing variants you might want to read through:
Players roll the attack rolls, saving throws, or caster level checks (but SR is 10 higher)
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm
Attack Score: 11 + enemy’s attack bonus
Defense Check: 1d20 + character’s AC modifiers
If a player rolls a natural 1 on a defense check, his character’s opponent has scored a threat (just as if it had rolled a natural 20 on its attack roll). Make another defense check; if it again fails to avoid the attack, the opponent has scored a critical hit.
Magic Check: 1d20 + spell level + ability modifer + other modifiers
Fortitude Score: 11 + enemy’s save mod
Spell Resistance Check: 1d20 + SR
Caster Level Score: 11 + attacker’s caster level + modifiers
DR only counts once in a round
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm
except worn physical armor's base armor bonus counts fully towards AC & DR. Shields and Nat too
For non-PCs (NPCs and monsters), but they can still take 10 or 20: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm
Old Threat Range New Threat Range
20 16-18
19-20 15-18
18-20 14-18
17-20 14-18
15-20 13-18
"Any time creatures are encountered in groups of four or more, reduce their CR by 1. For example, a single troll is CR 5, and two trolls are CR 5 each (and thus a EL 7 encounter). But four trolls are only CR 4 each (making a EL 8 encounter).
Monsters with fractional CRs move down to the next lowest fraction when encountered in groups of four or more; the goblin (ordinarily CR 1/2) becomes CR 1/3, for example."
Imagine a spell level penalty to fort saves +
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/massaveDamageThresholdsAndResults.htm#scalingTheSavingThrow
"Another way to tweak the massive damage system is to scale the Fortitude save DC based on the damage taken. For every 10 points of damage dealt by an attack in excess of a character’s massive damage threschold, increase his Fortitude save DC by 2. This rule functions the same regardless of the threshold you choose to use.
For instance, if you use the standard 50-point threshold, a hit that deals 50 to 59 points of damage requires a DC 15 save, 60 to 69 points DC 17, 70 to 79 points DC 19, and so forth. If you use the Constitution-based threshold, a character with a Constitution of 15 would have to make a DC 15 Fortitude save when taking 15 to 24 points from a single attack, DC 17 for 25 to 34 points, DC 19 for 35 to 44 points, and so on."
110
The PBMC Metacompendium / Leveling Via Scrolls vs WBL
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:41:32 PM »
I've got a nice picture of a chart from someone else on the message board that compares Level Wealth Scroll 5% of WBL % of WBL Cost to level purely with scrolls % WBL to level with scrolls.
It basically shows that you can (cheaply) end encounters with 1 scroll, get gold for scrolls, and use the XP from the scroll encounters to level all the way to ECL20. Basically, if you allow scrolls in your game, there's little need for traditional adventuring or even being a caster. Just be a commoner with cross ranks in UMD.
@ me on our discord (PBMC) if you want to type up the chart with the correct formatting here.
It basically shows that you can (cheaply) end encounters with 1 scroll, get gold for scrolls, and use the XP from the scroll encounters to level all the way to ECL20. Basically, if you allow scrolls in your game, there's little need for traditional adventuring or even being a caster. Just be a commoner with cross ranks in UMD.
@ me on our discord (PBMC) if you want to type up the chart with the correct formatting here.
111
The PBMC Metacompendium / 27 Kaorti Resin
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:32:04 PM »
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
This process costs the kaorti experience points equal to 50% of the market price for a masterwork item of the appropriate type. After that, a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp for every XP spent, to a minimum of 35% of the normal cost (and it must spend at least 1/5th the base items cost in XP)
Lets go slowly. 50% of the market price for a masterwork item of the appropriate type is -- for items that arent weapons, armor, shield, staves or non-weapon rods. So that makes the xp cost for that first sentence zero for such items.
With the exception that the base items consist of resin, all other material aspects of the items creation are exactly as described in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Spell components, chemicals, and other materials are still required. Magic weapons, armor, rings, staff, rods, and all other magic items can be crafted from kaorti resin. And in normal crafting how much XP is expended to get that juicy 50% off? 1/25th of the market price (DMG). So a Kaorti will spend 4% of the market price in xp just from normal crafting.
For every XP spent ... a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp. Since 4% of the market price is already spent marking an item, this means a kaorti can look forward to a 4%*5=20% reduction on one of the above types of items. This means an automatic reduction down to 80% just from normal crafting. The 35% cap is very low. But how to get there...
The parenthetical is an example and it must spend at least 1/5th the base items cost in XP) and like many examples has an error. Specifically its missing a two. If this werent an error then it just became five times more costly in xp to craft an item! This would mean every kaorti resin item would hit the 35% cap because otherwise it would be free! Heres the real rule: Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP.
Lets assume the items crafted dont have costly spell components: For many items, the market price equals the base price. ... some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components or with XP components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. Getting an item down to 80% before other modifiers is nice, but how do we hit that 35% cap? Masterwork items are not that expensive. It must be in the costly spells, right? Are there any worth-while items for the extra 45%?
Example +5 tome with a market price of 137,500 gp and a base crafting cost of 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP:
The XP alone is worth 127,500 gp. The raw gp cost should be 50% of what is built into the market price so 6,250*2 = 12,500 after markup. It seems the tomes are all off by 100xp * the amount of stats it gives. So 100xp too much for the +1, 200xp for the +2, etc.
Anyways a kaortis 25,500 XP would reduce the price by 127,500 gp down to 8%. Now weve hit the 35% cap! So it only costs 6,250 *.35 = 2187.5gp (+ 25,500 XP).
Somehow, this isn't the powerhouse I expected.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
This process costs the kaorti experience points equal to 50% of the market price for a masterwork item of the appropriate type. After that, a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp for every XP spent, to a minimum of 35% of the normal cost (and it must spend at least 1/5th the base items cost in XP)
Lets go slowly. 50% of the market price for a masterwork item of the appropriate type is -- for items that arent weapons, armor, shield, staves or non-weapon rods. So that makes the xp cost for that first sentence zero for such items.
With the exception that the base items consist of resin, all other material aspects of the items creation are exactly as described in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Spell components, chemicals, and other materials are still required. Magic weapons, armor, rings, staff, rods, and all other magic items can be crafted from kaorti resin. And in normal crafting how much XP is expended to get that juicy 50% off? 1/25th of the market price (DMG). So a Kaorti will spend 4% of the market price in xp just from normal crafting.
For every XP spent ... a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp. Since 4% of the market price is already spent marking an item, this means a kaorti can look forward to a 4%*5=20% reduction on one of the above types of items. This means an automatic reduction down to 80% just from normal crafting. The 35% cap is very low. But how to get there...
The parenthetical is an example and it must spend at least 1/5th the base items cost in XP) and like many examples has an error. Specifically its missing a two. If this werent an error then it just became five times more costly in xp to craft an item! This would mean every kaorti resin item would hit the 35% cap because otherwise it would be free! Heres the real rule: Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP.
Lets assume the items crafted dont have costly spell components: For many items, the market price equals the base price. ... some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components or with XP components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. Getting an item down to 80% before other modifiers is nice, but how do we hit that 35% cap? Masterwork items are not that expensive. It must be in the costly spells, right? Are there any worth-while items for the extra 45%?
Example +5 tome with a market price of 137,500 gp and a base crafting cost of 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP:
The XP alone is worth 127,500 gp. The raw gp cost should be 50% of what is built into the market price so 6,250*2 = 12,500 after markup. It seems the tomes are all off by 100xp * the amount of stats it gives. So 100xp too much for the +1, 200xp for the +2, etc.
Anyways a kaortis 25,500 XP would reduce the price by 127,500 gp down to 8%. Now weve hit the 35% cap! So it only costs 6,250 *.35 = 2187.5gp (+ 25,500 XP).
Somehow, this isn't the powerhouse I expected.
112
The PBMC Metacompendium / Dysfunctional Rules Rulings
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:29:28 PM »
Firstly, I'm not interested in things already taken care of in either the Dirty Handbook fixes or elsewhere here. This fixes some of the obvious "that's not the way it's supposed to work" things. I haven't mentioned the lighting problems (not just with devils) or that sight is basically a magical tea party, either. It's just a few selections of the most obvious, most intrusive dysfunctional rules GitP mentioned.
Many things not listed here are believed to be intended: Sha'ir's can't cast at level 1 until they get gold, Changelings require variant rules for certain qualifications, Favoured souls have infinite out of combat healing, etc. If you disagree, it's okay because none of these things really break the game. But since a DM is probably expected to rule on them, I thought I'd be thorough and go through them quickly.
Anything listed here does not include 'trap' options or the usual sub-optimal choices: healing-based classes, mage-multiclassing PrCs, grappler-based builds, -1 PrCs, etc
This is NOT counting typo's like swordsage's skill points at first level, Contemplative's "damage resistance" instead of damage reduction, failed example NPCs, neglibable horse or ship weight, etc
Lastly, I'm excluding cool rule interactions that are clearly not intended but make things awesome. Apostle of Peace and their VoP abuse fits or Black Flame Zealot's being able to make their kukri exotic materials for free, or the fact that the Bladesinger's Song of Celerity (CW18) actually shuts down enemy Quickens of less than 5th level, or nonstandard BAB or save progressions or half the things involving dvati ...
1. Classes that may select a feat without meeting the prerequisites may also use those feats without the prereqs.
2. Active abilities with no listed duration work for 1 minute. Passive, toggle-able abilities are not affected.
3. PrC prereqs ignore changes made by the class itself.
4. When something calls out extra damage to a type normally immune A) you have to bypass immunity or B) the effect always bypasses the immunity. This choice is made by your DM
5. Minimum range, time or cost in D&D are 0, a free action or 0cp.
6. Illiteracy should disallow Forgery & Decipher script for word-based scripts
7. Future Knowledge(History) checks are guesses just like the spells
8. Weapon sizes/wielding are all relative to intended size. This allows monkey grip and disallows pixies with a titan bloodline wielding a gargantuan-sized warhammer.
9. Similar to the above tower shields only give cover to things besides themselves
10. Undead Meldshaper should allow an undead to qualify for other Incarnum feats, etc as well as classes
11. The 'on fire' and 'in lava' rules are too lenient. It needs buffing.
12. -- Constitution does not grant immunity to all ability damage, only constitution ability damage. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities)
Many things not listed here are believed to be intended: Sha'ir's can't cast at level 1 until they get gold, Changelings require variant rules for certain qualifications, Favoured souls have infinite out of combat healing, etc. If you disagree, it's okay because none of these things really break the game. But since a DM is probably expected to rule on them, I thought I'd be thorough and go through them quickly.
Anything listed here does not include 'trap' options or the usual sub-optimal choices: healing-based classes, mage-multiclassing PrCs, grappler-based builds, -1 PrCs, etc
This is NOT counting typo's like swordsage's skill points at first level, Contemplative's "damage resistance" instead of damage reduction, failed example NPCs, neglibable horse or ship weight, etc
Lastly, I'm excluding cool rule interactions that are clearly not intended but make things awesome. Apostle of Peace and their VoP abuse fits or Black Flame Zealot's being able to make their kukri exotic materials for free, or the fact that the Bladesinger's Song of Celerity (CW18) actually shuts down enemy Quickens of less than 5th level, or nonstandard BAB or save progressions or half the things involving dvati ...
1. Classes that may select a feat without meeting the prerequisites may also use those feats without the prereqs.
2. Active abilities with no listed duration work for 1 minute. Passive, toggle-able abilities are not affected.
3. PrC prereqs ignore changes made by the class itself.
4. When something calls out extra damage to a type normally immune A) you have to bypass immunity or B) the effect always bypasses the immunity. This choice is made by your DM
5. Minimum range, time or cost in D&D are 0, a free action or 0cp.
6. Illiteracy should disallow Forgery & Decipher script for word-based scripts
7. Future Knowledge(History) checks are guesses just like the spells
8. Weapon sizes/wielding are all relative to intended size. This allows monkey grip and disallows pixies with a titan bloodline wielding a gargantuan-sized warhammer.
9. Similar to the above tower shields only give cover to things besides themselves
10. Undead Meldshaper should allow an undead to qualify for other Incarnum feats, etc as well as classes
11. The 'on fire' and 'in lava' rules are too lenient. It needs buffing.
12. -- Constitution does not grant immunity to all ability damage, only constitution ability damage. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities)
113
The PBMC Metacompendium / Complete Iconoclasm
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:19:47 PM »
"Everytime you bring D&D into religion, satan makes a morbidly obese catgirl."
The false deities in D&D are just epic characters that gave into their pride for salient abilities rather than CUSTOM epic casting.
Assumptions:
The D&D cosmological history is inconsistent, so we throw it out the window and replace it with a catgirl-killing evolution designed uncannily like our own before usual DnD race creation starts (a wizard did it). This isn't really anything special. Considering you are pulling in realism, it isn't that special of a fix for cross-setting play.
In addition to the dirty handbook fixes, no epic material, no artifacts, wish conglomeration, a sensical reading of the rules, etc, assume there were no 9th level spells for casters below ECL21. Basically each of these things is necessary for a campaign to hit ECL 20 without breaking down.
Creatures with divine ranks are basically just ECL 21 characters that gave into their pride so they could gain divine ranks (knowing full well that they would be worshipped as an idol). We of course assume that if it has stats, it can die.
Setup:
First we might want to track down a group of genetically related individuals (probably elves which makes this easier) so we can stay on task for later. At the very least we will want to make sure that we don't have any unfavorable relations. A few divinations allow family tree research to get to each individual and offer a painless death [GW] potion with gentle repose (res them later if you want to be nice). Although there should be none, individuals who are rarely powerful enough to stop you and dumb enough to chose being removed from existence rather than resurrected, don't need to be killed by you at all. So no assumptions need to be made, and its optional if you don't mind some slowness.
We also have to make sure that we can open (and shut!) a portal to the Far Realms even while pressure is applied to make sure nothing comes in. No worries, though, we don't have to supply the pressure or the portal, only the location. We don't even have to plan this part until the real job is done. We will also have to get an agreement from what we send back to wait and block or help close the portal on the other side due to the time difference. "Other methods of reaching the Far Realm include ... finding the true Dreamheart past the Portal of Sleep. Luckily for the Material Plane, entities from the Far Realm have just as difficult a time finding passage out of their plane, though rare spells allow them to be summoned." [MotP212] Due to the fact that we will be escorting something with the ability to already planar travel regardless of conditions (which we can do too), all we need is a point where the travel can work. Normally for travel within the great wheel, this isn't a problem but we are taking extra precautions. All it takes to get to the Dreamheart is an 8th level wizard touch spell and a DC25 wisdom check with a minimal investment in a cross-class skill.
All we need to be is a LN knowledge domain cleric 5 (or 3 with earth spell) / Entropomancer 10 [CDiv37] and Void Disciple 1 [CDiv] + Hathran 1. This gives us the ability to contact a Sphere of Annihilation safely and to find anything viewable within 1000 miles once a day. We will be a female Sparrow Hengeyokai with Human Heritage. We will be born in Rasheman but move to (and therefore be home to) the land over an obliterated kingdom. We persist Draconic Polymorph [Drac79] so we can be an outsider and take Infernal Bargainer. That allows us to bind Essence of Shothrogat because it's fun making idols go crazy and attack their allies. We'll eventually put some oddly-shapped armor on it with the +5 enchancement Proof against Transmutation [CA142]. There are other necessary spellcasting services or items that will be mentioned as we go along. None are very expensive or difficult to procure.
The Main Course:
Now let's look at Elder Evils page 80. By making a few Know(arcana) checks DC28-42, we know that the "god-slaying weapon" Pandorym plans to rip all idols from existence. Considering it and anyone mildly associated near it was wiped off the map by those same idols, it definitely seems able to do the job. We even have ToM (Tenebreous) references for what happens to something like that, even though it can't pridefully call itself a god anymore. A lowball on Pandorym's CR follows: 50% body, 50% mind with a CR25 mind shard taking 10% of the prison holding the mind means the full mind is atleast CR250, and combined Pandorym would be atleast CR500. Yeah, it can fulfill its mission.
Pandorym is a Far Realms creature "parallel to the great wheel" and that fits with being an immortal hyper-dimensional being "as powerful as deities." [MotP212] Theres also the fact that "Ancient elves once pierced the boundary of eons with a vast portal to the Far Realms but their civilization imploded in bloody terror and the portal's location is long-forgotten," so Pandorym might be a singular example of something big making it to the prime.
To keep Pandorym on-track we can try to have already taken care of all or nearly every descendant it cares about before its multi pantheon killing spree. This depends on how many millenia it has been in its imprisonment. We can give it names for the remaining ones and it can hypercognition to make sure we didn't miss any very powerful, living ones.
Considerations:
Since this is CO, we aren't assuming any ridiculous interpretations. Portfolios only trigger on generally big things, otherwise the Change or Time or Knowledge, etc domains would be self-referential and end the multiverse. Keep in mind that messing with the areas around Pandoyrm often qualifies as important. Therefore we have been very careful with what we do and do not do:
We are not adventuring (direct goal without a party or XP rewards) and can't ever be an adventurer but there are other ways to gain XP. We won't be needing any emotions or arcane casting. We can't be an artisan, archer, or engineer. We have no plans/strategy/tactics, just on-the-fly rash reactions thrown together sloppily and without pay. We haven't been studying any goals but we aren't stupid either. Think of it as using more charisma-based thinking. No luck factor is involved thanks to Aura of Perfect Order stance via items. There will be no cave traversing: it's straight to the complex. We won't be answering questions deceitfully or honestly until after all idols are removed. We don't mention idol's foresight so instead of communication, Pandorym just passively reads our mind.
Portfolio Crunching:
Out of the 727 unique portfolios, here are a list the ones that come close to triggering and why they don't until we have Pandorym at our back:
*Dungeons/air if made not a dungeon* (vaccum seal outside wall of force in hallway out via body of pandorym pushing),
*Freedom* (only happens once we destroy prison from the inside. We can make the DC 45 will save every turn via atleast 12base will save+11 stance of perfect order+2iron will+6cumbrous will+6resistance+14wis easily with owl's insight),
*Future/Change* (for 20 weeks everything is normal, ie. nothing big changes before we break prison), *isolation* (We aren't isolated, so its not an "event"),
*Journeys* (we only go within line of sight after teleportation),
*Gems* (the crystal isn't actually one, and only a chunk is worth anything after its separation),
*Knowledge* (due to the way the knowledge skill works, we already knew about pandorym well before we decided to do anything crazy),
*magic/psionics/spells* (teleportation via amulet of the planes isn't direct magic itself or magic item artistry. Even if it does count under the portfolio, its unlike that binary knowledge of an amulet use would warrant the limited scrutiny among the twenty idos that might check, considering that portfolio competes with others and includes, well really every spell cast in the multiverse)
*Movement* (nothing big that "exists" moves until we are ready. Pandorym's body is specifically nonexistance),
*Protection* (we should be using the below buffing routine for a long time so it is not unusual enough to warrant investigation besides maybe the first time)
*Righteous Action* (we are neutral and can simply will the action to not be considered all that 'good' even though wiping out idols does prevent idol worship),
*Running* (pretend you are at the pool),
*Secrets* (implies we are keeping this from others, but above, we instead making ad-hoc decisions. It's not anymore a secret than the fact that you farted while reading this),
*Sight* (don't look at pandorym's body or at anything in or around the mind's prison),
*Speed* (don't go fast. 5'/s should be normal),
*Spellcasters in General* (Don't cast new spells after the day's persist buffs. This hurts but is doable. As a cleric that doesn't only worship an idol, we can't violate our own code of conduct. We can't prepare new spells around Pandorym anyway.)
*Intellect* (we'll have a +4 item to the amulet of the planes roll so we don't have to use our intellect to make the check),
*Isolation* (we aren't isolated when we are with someone and can leave at any time),
*travelers* (we are only travelers if we move and aren't at home, so while initially teleporting around to find Pandorym's body, we don't move around).
*Time* (we aren't in the timestream for an 'event' until we want to be)
The Heist:
Get immunity to shaken(shriver)+ring of sustenance, the same Proof of Transmutation armor, mind blank, and magic circle against evil. We pull/push the body of Pandorym to the prison. When near we can drag it in with us. Since we are immune to disintegrate, we are alive in the prison. We need for 12.096 million (plus a few rounds worth of) seconds for a full telepathy reading to pass before we continue. Unfortunately we need to be outside the timestream as we aren't practically invulnerable like Pandorym. Thus we place ourselves in 78+3inches worth of quintessence (regurgitate it if necessary), pulling it into a seal with the last chunk. Since quintessence is outside the timestream, it shouldn't be destroyed by the prison. As long as the quintessence isn't rubbed away from us, it won't cease to exist at any point in time. After that Pandorym presumably ingulfs us (he can manage a hole, if necessary) to keep us safe and finishes the countdown for us.
Even "a tiny fragment" of his mind has a total of over 100 in mental stats. As a mind-crushing challenge to the world, it can figure out that we are waiting 20 weeks for portfolio reasons, before splitting us out to uncover us. Once we are uncovered, we immediately release a 11k Rod of Cancellation that pokes the wall at the place we appeared so it touches the inside of the prismatic wall. This negates the prison and frees pandorym's reunited mind and body. If you are worried about the prison disolving the Rod, consider a readied an action to immediate dismiss some persisted incoporeality with the magically resized magic item already out. There is no time between us being spit out and Pandorym being free. It is unlikely we would die immediately after that thanks to our Elder Evil buddies.
Also remember that we have Shothragot in there too. He might initially have Bracers of Spellsharing for persisted incorporeality, if you're really worried about blocking in the prison. Pandorym will figure out our intent (he can't initially hurt us easily before he's reunited, and he won't since we are helping). So idols themselves can't actually come battle Pandorym unless they are undead or severly nerfing themselves with draconic polymorph or incorporeality (Shift Form retains the outsider type). There are too few undead idols to worry about. That leaves only weaker minions (they require bracelets of spellsharing and with the armor enhancement for disintegration unless originally incorporeal) and they have to be (re)built to make the will save continuously but that's par with having lots of buffs.
Pandorym would probably crush them continuously even if they have magic circle against evil, mindblank, and were incorporeal, mainly because they would have to be entropomancers just to not get curb-stomped by the body. Real entropomancers aren't the correct type to go on a suicide mission. Training every suicidable creature with an LA (so it could become a PC and customize itself with levels in a PC class) to become an entropomancer is another bad option for the idols considering the time and XP needed. When said creatures fail, no one would likely res them. Since they are playing for a draw, said suicide minions know no one would ressurect if they succeeded. Therefore only the dumbest servants would go up against something the gods fear but aren't willing to fight themselves.
The Battle:
Or would they? They didn't last time, but that might be because the previous spellcasters had betrayed pandorym for them. So we are looking at an all-out fight to the death as their best chance. Then a minion or quasi-deity could wait the 20 weeks and break the crystal, assuming spells were still granted. Quasi-deity's aren't immune to disintegration so they would have to be buffed like the minions during the gank. Even assuming something managed to kill Shathragot:
There are 487 statted idols, assumably the nine alignments have equal pieces. Neutral and evil idols wouldn't self-sacrifice. Lawful Good ones would allow a fair fight and not continue the circumstances of betrayal. Chaotic Good ones won't line up for a cooperative fight and can't be trusted to not Leeroy Jenkins it. Only the Neutral Good ones would be useful, on average. If the top third have an average rank of 10 and their average HD is 40 then the CR Estimate indicates [D&D] 54 CR 50's or an ("Easy") EL of 170 for a CR 500 creature (0 XP when he wins). A 100% participation, coordinated gank raises the EL to "very difficult." For reference, I consider that the minimum difficulty optimizers should bother with (as a break from the usual "overpowering" kind).
Cleanup:
I'm thinking team elder evil's got this. Even the wrap-up is nice. Once we come back and free Pandorym might have to go take revenge on a bunch of innocent humanoids, but hey, we can't stop him. We can rebind Shathragot to follow him while he cleans up the stragglers. Tharizdun may have to be whiped out from the Astral last, causing Shathragot to possibly not exist anymore. Once Pandorym's rampage is over, we pay to send him home via Dream Travel [MotP202] from a nice wizard who doesn't want the multiverse to end (but might not ever exist anymore). A DC25 check and the dreamheart is a place where he can poke through to the Far Realm.
Once you see off your world-crushing friend, you will probably be epic. Its a good thing, because there are some very powerful creatures that are quite angry with you. Now you've got the same choice to make of custom epic spells or salient abilities. It's up to you to make sure no prideful idolators rise up again. Good luck.
The false deities in D&D are just epic characters that gave into their pride for salient abilities rather than CUSTOM epic casting.
Assumptions:
The D&D cosmological history is inconsistent, so we throw it out the window and replace it with a catgirl-killing evolution designed uncannily like our own before usual DnD race creation starts (a wizard did it). This isn't really anything special. Considering you are pulling in realism, it isn't that special of a fix for cross-setting play.
In addition to the dirty handbook fixes, no epic material, no artifacts, wish conglomeration, a sensical reading of the rules, etc, assume there were no 9th level spells for casters below ECL21. Basically each of these things is necessary for a campaign to hit ECL 20 without breaking down.
Creatures with divine ranks are basically just ECL 21 characters that gave into their pride so they could gain divine ranks (knowing full well that they would be worshipped as an idol). We of course assume that if it has stats, it can die.
Setup:
First we might want to track down a group of genetically related individuals (probably elves which makes this easier) so we can stay on task for later. At the very least we will want to make sure that we don't have any unfavorable relations. A few divinations allow family tree research to get to each individual and offer a painless death [GW] potion with gentle repose (res them later if you want to be nice). Although there should be none, individuals who are rarely powerful enough to stop you and dumb enough to chose being removed from existence rather than resurrected, don't need to be killed by you at all. So no assumptions need to be made, and its optional if you don't mind some slowness.
We also have to make sure that we can open (and shut!) a portal to the Far Realms even while pressure is applied to make sure nothing comes in. No worries, though, we don't have to supply the pressure or the portal, only the location. We don't even have to plan this part until the real job is done. We will also have to get an agreement from what we send back to wait and block or help close the portal on the other side due to the time difference. "Other methods of reaching the Far Realm include ... finding the true Dreamheart past the Portal of Sleep. Luckily for the Material Plane, entities from the Far Realm have just as difficult a time finding passage out of their plane, though rare spells allow them to be summoned." [MotP212] Due to the fact that we will be escorting something with the ability to already planar travel regardless of conditions (which we can do too), all we need is a point where the travel can work. Normally for travel within the great wheel, this isn't a problem but we are taking extra precautions. All it takes to get to the Dreamheart is an 8th level wizard touch spell and a DC25 wisdom check with a minimal investment in a cross-class skill.
All we need to be is a LN knowledge domain cleric 5 (or 3 with earth spell) / Entropomancer 10 [CDiv37] and Void Disciple 1 [CDiv] + Hathran 1. This gives us the ability to contact a Sphere of Annihilation safely and to find anything viewable within 1000 miles once a day. We will be a female Sparrow Hengeyokai with Human Heritage. We will be born in Rasheman but move to (and therefore be home to) the land over an obliterated kingdom. We persist Draconic Polymorph [Drac79] so we can be an outsider and take Infernal Bargainer. That allows us to bind Essence of Shothrogat because it's fun making idols go crazy and attack their allies. We'll eventually put some oddly-shapped armor on it with the +5 enchancement Proof against Transmutation [CA142]. There are other necessary spellcasting services or items that will be mentioned as we go along. None are very expensive or difficult to procure.
The Main Course:
Now let's look at Elder Evils page 80. By making a few Know(arcana) checks DC28-42, we know that the "god-slaying weapon" Pandorym plans to rip all idols from existence. Considering it and anyone mildly associated near it was wiped off the map by those same idols, it definitely seems able to do the job. We even have ToM (Tenebreous) references for what happens to something like that, even though it can't pridefully call itself a god anymore. A lowball on Pandorym's CR follows: 50% body, 50% mind with a CR25 mind shard taking 10% of the prison holding the mind means the full mind is atleast CR250, and combined Pandorym would be atleast CR500. Yeah, it can fulfill its mission.
Pandorym is a Far Realms creature "parallel to the great wheel" and that fits with being an immortal hyper-dimensional being "as powerful as deities." [MotP212] Theres also the fact that "Ancient elves once pierced the boundary of eons with a vast portal to the Far Realms but their civilization imploded in bloody terror and the portal's location is long-forgotten," so Pandorym might be a singular example of something big making it to the prime.
To keep Pandorym on-track we can try to have already taken care of all or nearly every descendant it cares about before its multi pantheon killing spree. This depends on how many millenia it has been in its imprisonment. We can give it names for the remaining ones and it can hypercognition to make sure we didn't miss any very powerful, living ones.
Considerations:
Since this is CO, we aren't assuming any ridiculous interpretations. Portfolios only trigger on generally big things, otherwise the Change or Time or Knowledge, etc domains would be self-referential and end the multiverse. Keep in mind that messing with the areas around Pandoyrm often qualifies as important. Therefore we have been very careful with what we do and do not do:
We are not adventuring (direct goal without a party or XP rewards) and can't ever be an adventurer but there are other ways to gain XP. We won't be needing any emotions or arcane casting. We can't be an artisan, archer, or engineer. We have no plans/strategy/tactics, just on-the-fly rash reactions thrown together sloppily and without pay. We haven't been studying any goals but we aren't stupid either. Think of it as using more charisma-based thinking. No luck factor is involved thanks to Aura of Perfect Order stance via items. There will be no cave traversing: it's straight to the complex. We won't be answering questions deceitfully or honestly until after all idols are removed. We don't mention idol's foresight so instead of communication, Pandorym just passively reads our mind.
Portfolio Crunching:
Out of the 727 unique portfolios, here are a list the ones that come close to triggering and why they don't until we have Pandorym at our back:
*Dungeons/air if made not a dungeon* (vaccum seal outside wall of force in hallway out via body of pandorym pushing),
*Freedom* (only happens once we destroy prison from the inside. We can make the DC 45 will save every turn via atleast 12base will save+11 stance of perfect order+2iron will+6cumbrous will+6resistance+14wis easily with owl's insight),
*Future/Change* (for 20 weeks everything is normal, ie. nothing big changes before we break prison), *isolation* (We aren't isolated, so its not an "event"),
*Journeys* (we only go within line of sight after teleportation),
*Gems* (the crystal isn't actually one, and only a chunk is worth anything after its separation),
*Knowledge* (due to the way the knowledge skill works, we already knew about pandorym well before we decided to do anything crazy),
*magic/psionics/spells* (teleportation via amulet of the planes isn't direct magic itself or magic item artistry. Even if it does count under the portfolio, its unlike that binary knowledge of an amulet use would warrant the limited scrutiny among the twenty idos that might check, considering that portfolio competes with others and includes, well really every spell cast in the multiverse)
*Movement* (nothing big that "exists" moves until we are ready. Pandorym's body is specifically nonexistance),
*Protection* (we should be using the below buffing routine for a long time so it is not unusual enough to warrant investigation besides maybe the first time)
*Righteous Action* (we are neutral and can simply will the action to not be considered all that 'good' even though wiping out idols does prevent idol worship),
*Running* (pretend you are at the pool),
*Secrets* (implies we are keeping this from others, but above, we instead making ad-hoc decisions. It's not anymore a secret than the fact that you farted while reading this),
*Sight* (don't look at pandorym's body or at anything in or around the mind's prison),
*Speed* (don't go fast. 5'/s should be normal),
*Spellcasters in General* (Don't cast new spells after the day's persist buffs. This hurts but is doable. As a cleric that doesn't only worship an idol, we can't violate our own code of conduct. We can't prepare new spells around Pandorym anyway.)
*Intellect* (we'll have a +4 item to the amulet of the planes roll so we don't have to use our intellect to make the check),
*Isolation* (we aren't isolated when we are with someone and can leave at any time),
*travelers* (we are only travelers if we move and aren't at home, so while initially teleporting around to find Pandorym's body, we don't move around).
*Time* (we aren't in the timestream for an 'event' until we want to be)
The Heist:
Get immunity to shaken(shriver)+ring of sustenance, the same Proof of Transmutation armor, mind blank, and magic circle against evil. We pull/push the body of Pandorym to the prison. When near we can drag it in with us. Since we are immune to disintegrate, we are alive in the prison. We need for 12.096 million (plus a few rounds worth of) seconds for a full telepathy reading to pass before we continue. Unfortunately we need to be outside the timestream as we aren't practically invulnerable like Pandorym. Thus we place ourselves in 78+3inches worth of quintessence (regurgitate it if necessary), pulling it into a seal with the last chunk. Since quintessence is outside the timestream, it shouldn't be destroyed by the prison. As long as the quintessence isn't rubbed away from us, it won't cease to exist at any point in time. After that Pandorym presumably ingulfs us (he can manage a hole, if necessary) to keep us safe and finishes the countdown for us.
Even "a tiny fragment" of his mind has a total of over 100 in mental stats. As a mind-crushing challenge to the world, it can figure out that we are waiting 20 weeks for portfolio reasons, before splitting us out to uncover us. Once we are uncovered, we immediately release a 11k Rod of Cancellation that pokes the wall at the place we appeared so it touches the inside of the prismatic wall. This negates the prison and frees pandorym's reunited mind and body. If you are worried about the prison disolving the Rod, consider a readied an action to immediate dismiss some persisted incoporeality with the magically resized magic item already out. There is no time between us being spit out and Pandorym being free. It is unlikely we would die immediately after that thanks to our Elder Evil buddies.
Also remember that we have Shothragot in there too. He might initially have Bracers of Spellsharing for persisted incorporeality, if you're really worried about blocking in the prison. Pandorym will figure out our intent (he can't initially hurt us easily before he's reunited, and he won't since we are helping). So idols themselves can't actually come battle Pandorym unless they are undead or severly nerfing themselves with draconic polymorph or incorporeality (Shift Form retains the outsider type). There are too few undead idols to worry about. That leaves only weaker minions (they require bracelets of spellsharing and with the armor enhancement for disintegration unless originally incorporeal) and they have to be (re)built to make the will save continuously but that's par with having lots of buffs.
Pandorym would probably crush them continuously even if they have magic circle against evil, mindblank, and were incorporeal, mainly because they would have to be entropomancers just to not get curb-stomped by the body. Real entropomancers aren't the correct type to go on a suicide mission. Training every suicidable creature with an LA (so it could become a PC and customize itself with levels in a PC class) to become an entropomancer is another bad option for the idols considering the time and XP needed. When said creatures fail, no one would likely res them. Since they are playing for a draw, said suicide minions know no one would ressurect if they succeeded. Therefore only the dumbest servants would go up against something the gods fear but aren't willing to fight themselves.
The Battle:
Or would they? They didn't last time, but that might be because the previous spellcasters had betrayed pandorym for them. So we are looking at an all-out fight to the death as their best chance. Then a minion or quasi-deity could wait the 20 weeks and break the crystal, assuming spells were still granted. Quasi-deity's aren't immune to disintegration so they would have to be buffed like the minions during the gank. Even assuming something managed to kill Shathragot:
There are 487 statted idols, assumably the nine alignments have equal pieces. Neutral and evil idols wouldn't self-sacrifice. Lawful Good ones would allow a fair fight and not continue the circumstances of betrayal. Chaotic Good ones won't line up for a cooperative fight and can't be trusted to not Leeroy Jenkins it. Only the Neutral Good ones would be useful, on average. If the top third have an average rank of 10 and their average HD is 40 then the CR Estimate indicates [D&D] 54 CR 50's or an ("Easy") EL of 170 for a CR 500 creature (0 XP when he wins). A 100% participation, coordinated gank raises the EL to "very difficult." For reference, I consider that the minimum difficulty optimizers should bother with (as a break from the usual "overpowering" kind).
Cleanup:
I'm thinking team elder evil's got this. Even the wrap-up is nice. Once we come back and free Pandorym might have to go take revenge on a bunch of innocent humanoids, but hey, we can't stop him. We can rebind Shathragot to follow him while he cleans up the stragglers. Tharizdun may have to be whiped out from the Astral last, causing Shathragot to possibly not exist anymore. Once Pandorym's rampage is over, we pay to send him home via Dream Travel [MotP202] from a nice wizard who doesn't want the multiverse to end (but might not ever exist anymore). A DC25 check and the dreamheart is a place where he can poke through to the Far Realm.
Once you see off your world-crushing friend, you will probably be epic. Its a good thing, because there are some very powerful creatures that are quite angry with you. Now you've got the same choice to make of custom epic spells or salient abilities. It's up to you to make sure no prideful idolators rise up again. Good luck.
114
The PBMC Metacompendium / Idols
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:18:07 PM »
"Deities" are just NPCs that went into epic and instead of becoming an epic character (where they might have 9th level spells, etc), they gave into their pride and demanded people worship them. Even if it's used to farm for later good deeds, this is actually an evil act. Enjoy.
115
The PBMC Metacompendium / Free actions per Round
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:06:18 PM »
Limited to 2, excluding salient abilities.
116
The PBMC Metacompendium / Weirdstone Large towns
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:05:02 PM »
Top third of towns are above small towns (2.5k and up) [DMG137]
Top third can buy items around 500k gp [MiC232]
Top third has additional power centers besides standard political science, ie. mayors [DMG137]
But why would the people at the bottom stay there? Because its the only safe kind of town:
Wierdstone 250k gp = 6mi radius no astral, ethereal, scrying, or teleportation out, even if SLA/Su/Ex/psi/etc [PGtF124]
The small, poor towns are the ones run by the locals. They live by staying off the grid and are often destroyed when found.
Top third can buy items around 500k gp [MiC232]
Top third has additional power centers besides standard political science, ie. mayors [DMG137]
But why would the people at the bottom stay there? Because its the only safe kind of town:
Wierdstone 250k gp = 6mi radius no astral, ethereal, scrying, or teleportation out, even if SLA/Su/Ex/psi/etc [PGtF124]
The small, poor towns are the ones run by the locals. They live by staying off the grid and are often destroyed when found.
117
The PBMC Metacompendium / Stacking the Same Template
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:01:12 PM »
Is not legal. No one can find that one half dragon web article, anyway.
118
The PBMC Metacompendium / Genesis et al
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:00:18 PM »
Not that it will matter as a 9th level spell, but an "environment" does not mean incredibly specific planar traits. It means the landscape: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/wildernessWeatherEnvironment.htm
119
The PBMC Metacompendium / Sleep Deprivation
« on: March 22, 2018, 02:51:48 PM »Quote
A living creature can go without sleep for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum one). Thereafter it is fatigued, remaining in this state for a number of days equal to its Constitution modifier (again, minimum one); if it would become fatigued during that time, it is exhausted instead. Each day after that period, the creature takes 1 point of Wisdom damage. If the total Wisdom damage exceeds its Hit Dice, the creature is affected as if by an insanity spell.Elder Evils p9
Then it mentions that sleep removes the harmful effects, of course.
A creature immune to sleep (like warforged) is only immune to sleep effects (like elves) which is usually magical in nature. Unless they are a full construct or undead (or alive with immunity to fatigue, exhaustion, wisdom damage and insanity/mind-effects), the above still applies.
Even in the case, they still need rest (exactly like sleep, but not unconscious else they risk an interruption that costs them an hour) if they prepare spells. Only things that explicitly allow preparation of spells without rest get around the caster caveat.
120
The PBMC Metacompendium / 0th Level Available Spells
« on: March 22, 2018, 02:47:46 PM »
DragMag 302p50 limits Wizards to 16 cantrips if chosing spells outside the PHB. This is the same number for a Specialist who banned Enchantment and Illusion. Sorry, no selling your spellbook for insane amounts of cash.
Similarly, Clerics are limited to 12 and Druids 13 orisons.
Similarly, Clerics are limited to 12 and Druids 13 orisons.