Author Topic: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities  (Read 123790 times)

Offline Halinn

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I see. Thank you.

Looking at the Void Disciple, it can also be used to get truly infinite skill ranks, with the Moment of Clarity ability.

Offline Bauglir

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Pun-Pun will have to sacrifice his immunity to Con damage in order to use Suffer the Flesh. He probably gives a number of fucks evenly divisible by all nonzero real numbers.

Also, Suffer the Flesh doesn't grant infinite or NI CL. I should've opened with that. Your CL scales at half the rate of the maximum Con damage you can take, and while RoS does let you exceed the hard cap of maximum 10 points of Con, it doesn't let you exceed your caster level because it isn't a "level-fixed limit".
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 02:02:12 AM by Bauglir »

Offline Halinn

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Why wouldn't caster level be a level-fixed limit? Under the assumption that it is, Pun-Pun can take NI Con damage (after dropping his immunity to it for a round) for NI CL.

Offline Bauglir

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The text makes clear that "level-fixed limit" refers to the cap on the maximum caster level that can benefit you. I'd actually argue that your interpretation makes more sense for parsing that phrase, but you can't have it both ways, because they're separate rules.

Offline Halinn

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Of course, the simplest way to show that Pun-Pun has NI CL is the fact that he has NI levels, of which quite a lot can be in classes that improve caster levels across the line. Also bloodlines.

Offline Bauglir

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Oh, agreed. If absolutely nothing else, he can kill all of the encounters at once, gaining all of the levels as a consequence.

Offline Halinn

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We ought to have found this sooner. I was looking through the X stat to Y bonus handbook and found this:
Quote from: Complete Champion
Sanctified Spell (Ex): Once per day, you can increase your effective caster level by an amount equal to your Intelligence bonus (if any) for 1 round.

Sanctified One of Wee Jas ability. Make that permanent, and bam! Infinite caster level. The holy grail of Pun-Pun ability. With that, we can indirectly get a bunch more infinites.

Offline sirpercival

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We ought to have found this sooner. I was looking through the X stat to Y bonus handbook and found this:
Quote from: Complete Champion
Sanctified Spell (Ex): Once per day, you can increase your effective caster level by an amount equal to your Intelligence bonus (if any) for 1 round.

Sanctified One of Wee Jas ability. Make that permanent, and bam! Infinite caster level. The holy grail of Pun-Pun ability. With that, we can indirectly get a bunch more infinites.

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Offline Quillwraith

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We ought to have found this sooner. I was looking through the X stat to Y bonus handbook and found this:
Quote from: Complete Champion
Sanctified Spell (Ex): Once per day, you can increase your effective caster level by an amount equal to your Intelligence bonus (if any) for 1 round.

Sanctified One of Wee Jas ability. Make that permanent, and bam! Infinite caster level. The holy grail of Pun-Pun ability. With that, we can indirectly get a bunch more infinites.
Upvoted.

Offline Bastian

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #149 on: September 24, 2012, 05:20:51 PM »
I see. Thank you.

Looking at the Void Disciple, it can also be used to get truly infinite skill ranks, with the Moment of Clarity ability.
We ought to have found this sooner. I was looking through the X stat to Y bonus handbook and found this:
Quote from: Complete Champion
Sanctified Spell (Ex): Once per day, you can increase your effective caster level by an amount equal to your Intelligence bonus (if any) for 1 round.

Sanctified One of Wee Jas ability. Make that permanent, and bam! Infinite caster level. The holy grail of Pun-Pun ability. With that, we can indirectly get a bunch more infinites.
Added.

Edit: I'll add all the things that the infinite caster level revelation affect in a day or two.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 07:24:25 PM by Bastian »

Offline Halinn

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2012, 08:00:17 PM »
Do we have any way of converting a caster level directly to a manifester level? Since we're using ML for our telepathy and mindsight, it would be nice.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #151 on: September 24, 2012, 08:02:26 PM »
Do we have any way of converting a caster level directly to a manifester level? Since we're using ML for our telepathy and mindsight, it would be nice.

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Offline Scottzar

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #152 on: September 24, 2012, 09:06:23 PM »
Psiotheurgy on all 8 schools lets us make our caster level and ML stack for the purpose of casting all of these things.
Besides, archivist + chameleon casting debatably lets us do this anyway.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #153 on: September 26, 2012, 08:35:39 PM »
ninja'd

Yeah, the Psiotheugist feat(s) in Dragon #349.
I have a suspicion that those feats don't cover
every type of psi power, just almost all of them.
Infinite ML = Infinite powerpoints.
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Offline Scottzar

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #154 on: September 26, 2012, 08:49:29 PM »
Infinite ML = Infinite powerpoints.
Technically we still have no way of getting infinite true ML with this, just for the powers.
This being said, M/P transparency, or at the very least, magic mantle can let us just directly use the infinite caster level as a manifester level (I think, been a while since I looked close at this).
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #155 on: September 26, 2012, 09:10:42 PM »
Also, Pun-Pun has infinite PP because he has an infinitely high stat (whichever one he needs to use).
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Offline Scottzar

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #156 on: September 26, 2012, 11:28:45 PM »
(click to show/hide)

Why didn't we do one of the arcane/divine changing KotW + MFK loops? Too vague? Too many Southern Magician arguments?
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Offline Haakon

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2012, 07:31:55 AM »
It's worth mentioning the Infinity is an Aleph Zero.
I don't have near enough High Math mojo,
to describe what Aleph One is or why it's different
from Aleph Zero.

Aleph zero is essentially the size of the set of integers.
Aleph one is just taking the powerset of the set of integers.
And so on.
Of course, you can take the Aleph Aleph.
Or the Aleph Aleph Aleph.
AND SO ON.

Some mathematicians like to powergame their numbers.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #158 on: November 23, 2012, 04:34:17 PM »
 :(  ... I'm still failing the epic Know-Math check.


Or  :D you need a super-epic Aid Another check.

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Offline Quillwraith

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #159 on: November 24, 2012, 09:41:28 AM »
Count whole #s like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... forever.
That's Aleph(0) long, but countable. You can't finish, but you don't need to skip any.

Count decimal #s forever (in order). No matter how you list them, there's some in-between the ones you counted:
If I count "1.0, 1.1, " the I skipped 1.05. If I count that, I've missed 1.02. Etc.
That's Aleph(1) long, and "uncountable".

With Aleph(0), it'd take infinite(Aleph(0)) time to reach the end.
With Aleph(0), it'd take aleph(0) time to get from 1 to 2, and reaching the end takes even longer than infinite.
We call that longer than infinite amount Aleph(1).



It's been proven (don't ask how), that
Aleph(0) ^ Aleph(0) = Aleph(1)


There's also aleph 2, and, 3, and every other number, but I don't understand those. Ask a mathematician.