Min/Max Boards

Gaming Discussion => D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder => Min/Max 3.x => Topic started by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2013, 11:49:11 AM

Title: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2013, 11:49:11 AM
Here's the new thread. Woooo!

post some crazy stuff.


on Planewalker.org, there's a Dustman faction feat that allows you to worship no deity and choose any domains. This means you don't have to talk to your DM about 'worshipping' a concept.

edit: that's called Priest of the Great Unknown, there's a second called Renewed Faith that undoes loss of claws feature and turns your divine spells into a third type of magic (belief magic)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 15, 2013, 11:53:35 AM
I do have to ask: the old 50 page deal was because of limitations of the old boards.  Since we moved, do we still need to split after 50 pages?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 15, 2013, 11:58:27 AM
I do have to ask: the old 50 page deal was because of limitations of the old boards.  Since we moved, do we still need to split after 50 pages?

It helps for indexing later. I suspect someone is going to come by and sort the fun finds threads one day, and it will be useful to have them split.

Maybe I'll do it.
EDIT: DOIN IT.
EDIT2: NEVERMIND, NO WAY.

My fun find isn't a specific rule tidbit, but an amusing concept my group ran into. We adopted Pathfinder's Feat Progression, along with antifeats, then realized that this grants a feat at every level. I'm going to make a martial dip character that picks up a feat from the class as well...40+ feats!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on May 15, 2013, 12:05:04 PM
I do have to ask: the old 50 page deal was because of limitations of the old boards.  Since we moved, do we still need to split after 50 pages?

It helps for indexing later. I suspect someone is going to come by and sort the fun finds threads one day, and it will be useful to have them split.

Maybe I'll do it.

How is indexing multiple threads any easier than indexing one thread?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 15, 2013, 12:07:55 PM
I do have to ask: the old 50 page deal was because of limitations of the old boards.  Since we moved, do we still need to split after 50 pages?

It helps for indexing later. I suspect someone is going to come by and sort the fun finds threads one day, and it will be useful to have them split.

Maybe I'll do it.

How is indexing multiple threads any easier than indexing one thread?

Partitioning the work. I suppose page numbers work for that, but redundant partitioning is easier on the human mind.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 15, 2013, 06:54:28 PM
Here's a few fun ones:

Exoticist is a Fighter variant from Dragon 310.  You trade proficiency in all martial weapons for 4 exotic weapons.  Additionally, one of your bonus feats can be Exotic Attack, which is just a +2 bonus on trip attempts with an exotic weapon (and +2 Disarm).  Very useful for Spiked Chain tripper builds.

Corsair is another Fighter variant from the same book.  You lose proficiencies in heavier armors and your skill lists get juggled about, but you gain a few rather silly abilities for free at level 1 and 2.  Only one is really worth considering... the ability to swing on a rope and then bull rush someone, gaining a +1 bonus on the bull rush for every 5' swung.  Could be hilarious, if situational, for Dungencrashers.  You also get the ability to grapple people using swim checks if you're in deep water, which has some interesting potential.

There's also the Fencer variant, which is a heavily Charisma based Fighter.  You have to take 4 levels in it to get the one interesting ability, which lets you make opposed Charisma checks with an enemy as a standard action.  If you win, they take a -2 BAB penalty (yes, that's base attack bonus, which can lower their attacks), with an additional -1 penalty per 5 points you win by.  If you can somehow pump the heck out of your Charisma, this could be very cool... I'm thinking some sort of wacky Arcane Duelist or Iaijutsu Master build.

And finally the one other people have heard of... the Targetteer.  You give up martial melee weapon proficiency for two exotic ranged weapons, and get special bonus feats available to you like "use dex to damage with ranged attacks against enemies vulnerable to crits" and "get two extra ranged attacks but all attacks get -5 to hit."

Arcane Disciple is actually a Cleric variant that gets any Sorcerer/Wizard or Bard spell as a divine spell at each level.  It loses Turn Undead, but their existence could be wonderful for Archivists.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on May 16, 2013, 06:29:00 AM
on Planewalker.org, there's a Dustman faction feat that allows you to worship no deity and choose any domains. This means you don't have to talk to your DM about 'worshipping' a concept.

Sounds like a solid Almighty Janitor. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlmightyJanitor) (warning, link leads to tvtropes... you might lose a day or two.)

Those are actually really solid fighter alternatives. I'd imagine a Fencer / Demoralization / Iajitsu Focus character could easily pull off the "ultimate swordsman" style.

Curiousity... if they take a BaB penalty and they have feats that require a certain BaB, do they lose the benefit of those feats?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lo77o on May 16, 2013, 08:31:32 AM
on Planewalker.org, there's a Dustman faction feat that allows you to worship no deity and choose any domains. This means you don't have to talk to your DM about 'worshipping' a concept.

Sounds like a solid Almighty Janitor. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlmightyJanitor) (warning, link leads to tvtropes... you might lose a day or two.)

Those are actually really solid fighter alternatives. I'd imagine a Fencer / Demoralization / Iajitsu Focus character could easily pull off the "ultimate swordsman" style.

Curiousity... if they take a BaB penalty and they have feats that require a certain BaB, do they lose the benefit of those feats?

Yes.. and should they have a PrC that requires BaB +6 and it drops below that, they loose all class features from that PrC as well. Nasty little trick.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 16, 2013, 08:59:28 AM
An interesting line in the Plant type entry:

Quote
"Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive."

This isn't really obscure since it's the first line in the plant type entry but I've never really seen it brought up before. Can this be abused somehow?

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nanshork on May 16, 2013, 10:28:08 AM
What's the duration of the BAB reduction?  It would be hilarious if there wasn't one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on May 16, 2013, 11:49:43 AM
As per my recent post in v3.0 thread, I'd been looking at crafting Effigies and such, as well some recent discussion about heavy weapons.

This got me thinking about using heavy or special materials in construct creation.

Lo' and behold, we have Living Metal in MoF which repairs itself at 1hp/minute.
Nice if one could use it in the construction of non-Sacred Guarding contructs (which get Fast Healing 5)

There's some discussion on materials here
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7923.msg123973

It stands to reason the materials would imbue their properties to a construct built from such, although I doubt there are any rules that mention doing so in construction.

Materials like Darksteel are slightly interesting for potential energy resistance and energy damage on natural attacks.
Aurorum could outright reduce much of the threat of the contruct being permanently destroyed.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on May 16, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
An interesting line in the Plant type entry:

Quote
"Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive."

This isn't really obscure since it's the first line in the plant type entry but I've never really seen it brought up before. Can this be abused somehow?
Wouldn't Awakening them give them Wis, Cha and Int but didnt actually remove the "are not creatures"? They would have hardness! Just True Mind Switch and you are set.

For the fun finds, I didn't see Selkies being mentioned. Fiend Folio playable race that lets you turn into a seal. How awesome is that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 16, 2013, 12:13:35 PM
An interesting line in the Plant type entry:

Quote
"Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive."

This isn't really obscure since it's the first line in the plant type entry but I've never really seen it brought up before. Can this be abused somehow?
Wouldn't Awakening them give them Wis, Cha and Int but didnt actually remove the "are not creatures"? They would have hardness! Just True Mind Switch and you are set.

For the fun finds, I didn't see Selkies being mentioned. Fiend Folio playable race that lets you turn into a seal. How awesome is that?

Wow I never noticed that...and that picture is really creeping me out D:. Too bad they aren't that great. 

Also, welcome to the forums!  :D.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 16, 2013, 01:20:32 PM
Remember that Awaken only works on trees, not other plants.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 16, 2013, 01:31:49 PM
An interesting line in the Plant type entry:

Quote
"Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive."

This isn't really obscure since it's the first line in the plant type entry but I've never really seen it brought up before. Can this be abused somehow?

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 16, 2013, 01:42:09 PM

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate?
Oh, that's just dirty!  The wizard wastes his disintegrate because it only disintegrates a 10-foot patch of ivy vines...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 16, 2013, 02:14:04 PM
What's the duration of the BAB reduction?  It would be hilarious if there wasn't one.

Cha mod +1 rounds.  So, nothing huge.  You'd have to really pump charisma to make this worthwhile... and it's not so good for demoralization because you can't combine it with the far superior Zhentarium Fighter.

But something like Fencer 4/Duskblade 1/Warblade 1/Arcane Duelist 10 has some potential.  Takes a while to mature, though.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 16, 2013, 02:41:29 PM
Remember that Awaken only works on trees, not other plants.

people have fruit trees in their garden :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on May 16, 2013, 02:56:40 PM

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate?
Oh, that's just dirty!  The wizard wastes his disintegrate because it only disintegrates a 10-foot patch of ivy vines...

No, it's because Disintegrate only affects non-living matter when used on objects ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 16, 2013, 03:00:06 PM

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate?
Oh, that's just dirty!  The wizard wastes his disintegrate because it only disintegrates a 10-foot patch of ivy vines...

No, it's because Disintegrate only affects non-living matter when used on objects ...
Okay... so the disintegrate ignores the ivy? and you are left with a wall of ivy?  :???

Or it just disintegrates a single ivy plant?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 16, 2013, 03:01:29 PM

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate?
Oh, that's just dirty!  The wizard wastes his disintegrate because it only disintegrates a 10-foot patch of ivy vines...

Even better:
"When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter."
If plants are still considered 'living' even though they're objects, they're totally immune to Disintegrate.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 16, 2013, 03:08:45 PM
Okay, so Plant Growth is a great spell.  The PC's still have to hack through it.
Quote
Speed drops to 5 feet, or 10 feet for Large or larger creatures.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 16, 2013, 03:45:05 PM

Cover your fortress in ivy, so it's not vulnerable to Disintegrate?
Oh, that's just dirty!  The wizard wastes his disintegrate because it only disintegrates a 10-foot patch of ivy vines...

Even better:
"When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter."
If plants are still considered 'living' even though they're objects, they're totally immune to Disintegrate.
Or just build the whole thing out of livewood, casting hardness and/or ironwood as required.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 16, 2013, 03:51:06 PM
Or just build the whole thing out of livewood, casting hardness and/or ironwood as required.
I was just about to suggest this.

I now have a RAW method by which to make the walls and doors of the Labyrith of Madness immune to disintergrate...

Now, is there any method by which to make stone or metal "alive"?  Didn't I just see mentioned in the last day or two something about living metal from Magic of Faerun that would heal itself 1 point of damage per minute or somesuch?

Edit: Found it:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 17, 2013, 01:20:03 PM
probably old hat, but i just had this brought to my notice again recently: lawful good assassins (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a).

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 17, 2013, 04:52:33 PM
 :D ... and 21 spells known if you do it wrong.
 ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on May 17, 2013, 08:05:24 PM
Even better:
"When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter."
If plants are still considered 'living' even though they're objects, they're totally immune to Disintegrate.
This is glorious.  for bonus points, makes the ivy invisible, so disintegrate seems to be stopped by the stone (
or metal) wall.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 17, 2013, 10:39:32 PM
Even better:
"When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter."
If plants are still considered 'living' even though they're objects, they're totally immune to Disintegrate.
This is glorious.  for bonus points, makes the ivy invisible, so disintegrate seems to be stopped by the stone (
or metal) wall.
Invisible Spell Plant Growth?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 18, 2013, 11:26:35 PM
Even better:
"When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter."
If plants are still considered 'living' even though they're objects, they're totally immune to Disintegrate.
This is glorious.  for bonus points, makes the ivy invisible, so disintegrate seems to be stopped by the stone (
or metal) wall.
Invisible Spell Plant Growth?

just use the transparency option for walls out of SBG on the ivy or living wood.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 19, 2013, 05:51:26 PM
Not so much a fun find as random trivia, but there are only 18 fine-sized creatures, only five of them aren't a swarm, and the entire abilities of two of them are about latching to other things. And two of them are the same creature.

What I do to know is why they have two different versions of the Hairy Spider. :huh

On a more relevant note: does the ivy actually count as a wall, so you can make it transparent?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 19, 2013, 10:55:39 PM
The hairy spider and hengeyokai are the only playable Fine races (excluding class features)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 20, 2013, 11:18:54 AM
The hairy spider and hengeyokai are the only playable Fine races (excluding class features)

and i'm quite throughly enjoying my sparrow hengeyokai with access to minor shape change, wildshaping, master of many forms (v3.5) and warshaper, thank you. =D

and not a single level of druid or wildshaping ranger to be seen.  :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 20, 2013, 12:10:52 PM
This was not counting PF or Dragon stuff because I cannot easily search them by size of creature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on May 20, 2013, 12:58:07 PM
This was not counting PF or Dragon stuff because I cannot easily search them by size of creature.

Out of curiosity, how did you search all other sources easily?  OCR + PDF+Control-F+Manually skipping every size table?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 20, 2013, 07:41:29 PM
Forest eyes and forest voice (Complete Champion) are lv3 versions of transport via plants, which let you see or speak through the plant instead of going there. Livewood never runs out of uses, does it? Could also be useful if you've got some unique type of plant.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 20, 2013, 07:47:09 PM
probably old hat, but i just had this brought to my notice again recently: lawful good assassins (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a).

2nd take ... this is the same problem a Paladin Of X has.
It's just a refluff ; they didn't need a whole 'nother class.

Chaos Monks in China take over areas during End Of Dynasty problems.
Lawful Barbarians erupt out of the Desert, bringing encyclopedic hadiths.
etc
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Raineh Daze on May 20, 2013, 08:07:58 PM
This was not counting PF or Dragon stuff because I cannot easily search them by size of creature.

Out of curiosity, how did you search all other sources easily?  OCR + PDF+Control-F+Manually skipping every size table?

WotC has a tool on their site that lets you search... pretty much everything (feat, class, monster) listed in an official sourcebook. This is the result for fine (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters&tablefilter=fine).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on May 21, 2013, 03:50:12 PM
After trying to figure out what are the statistics (by RAW) for a Livewood (I am not sure if it gives any advantages but it's still cool) small tree growing in someone's garden awakened with an Intiensified Awaken (27th level Incantatrix would be best), here's what I got:
- A small Plant with all the plant goodies and 1 HD, which is swappable for a character level thanks to Savage Species rule.
- It is treated as an object:
Quote
Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities, above) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.
Quote
An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6.
- I don't see anything in the second quote that would trump the first quote's "are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive".
- Also by RAW the tree should get construct traits as they are simply mentioned as a Special Quality of Animated Objects. Quote two specifically mentions the only exceptions being plant type and mental ability scores.
- We are looking at some serious immunities here (note that objects have hardness, recieve half damage from ranged attacks, have certain energy damage reductions and can be healed by the usage of craft skill). The most serious drawback is automatically failing all saving throws, unless one can manage to make the tree magical.
- All its mental ability scores receive a base of 36, which is even better than PAOing into a black ethergaunt or Sarrukh. Also, do not forget the awesome +2 dex!

If you can get the tree magical and somehow managing to play it (mind switch + astral seed?), it would be one awesome little tree. Now you can start picking those monk levels.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 21, 2013, 04:01:05 PM
After trying to figure out what are the statistics (by RAW) for a Livewood (I am not sure if it gives any advantages but it's still cool) small tree growing in someone's garden awakened with an Intiensified Awaken (27th level Incantatrix would be best), here's what I got:
- A small Plant with all the plant goodies and 1 HD, which is swappable for a character level thanks to Savage Species rule.
- It is treated as an object:
Quote
Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities, above) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.
Quote
An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6.
- I don't see anything in the second quote that would trump the first quote's "are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive".
- Also by RAW the tree should get construct traits as they are simply mentioned as a Special Quality of Animated Objects. Quote two specifically mentions the only exceptions being plant type and mental ability scores.
- We are looking at some serious immunities here (note that objects have hardness, recieve half damage from ranged attacks, have certain energy damage reductions and can be healed by the usage of craft skill). The most serious drawback is automatically failing all saving throws, unless one can manage to make the tree magical.
- All its mental ability scores receive a base of 36, which is even better than PAOing into a black ethergaunt or Sarrukh. Also, do not forget the awesome +2 dex!

If you can get the tree magical and somehow managing to play it (mind switch + astral seed?), it would be one awesome little tree. Now you can start picking those monk levels.

If an Awakened Tree has characteristics as if it were an Animated Object, then it's a creature because Animated Objects are creatures.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on May 21, 2013, 04:04:20 PM
Also, awakened trees are no longer regular plants.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 21, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
I like awakened trees.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on May 21, 2013, 07:26:22 PM
Here's a fun one.

The Thayan Slaver is a pretty meh class, but its second level feature deals 1 point of Wisdom damage to anyone that it is targeting if they succeed on an Intimidate check by 10 or more.

In other words, you Demoralize them, and happen to succeed by 10 or more?

They lose a point of Wisdom.

Intimidating Rage?

The fact that you are angry cracked their will.

You can literally bully someone comatose.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 21, 2013, 07:40:04 PM
Intimidating Rage? You forgot to mention the additional support it'd need. Like 2 Con, Instantaneous Rage, and your race needs to be a Wolverine. :p

Bub bub sniktbub snikt. (wolvering will kick your ass!)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 21, 2013, 08:46:04 PM
Anthro-Wolverine or Badger

or long way... Orc Warlord 5 for final rage
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 22, 2013, 12:02:44 AM
Orc Warlord plus anything that ignores fatigue (such as Horizon Walker 1)... instant kill on anyone who can't ignore Wis damage.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 22, 2013, 02:04:45 AM
From athas.org...
Fearsome feat gives +2 untyped to Intimidate and you can use your Str instead of Cha on Intimidate checks.

Intimidating Presence feat lets you affect your Cha mod in number of foes for demoralization.

these help those using Intimate as much as possible
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on May 22, 2013, 03:00:20 AM
… using Intimate …

They folded that into bluff in 3.5. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 22, 2013, 03:42:01 AM
?
all I saw was completely different abilities for either skill
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on May 22, 2013, 04:06:48 AM
All right, that joke might have been a little obscure.  I'll explain.  Intimate means “communicate delicately and indirectly.”  Innuendo, the 3.0 skill for doing exactly that, was folded into bluff in 3.5. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on May 22, 2013, 04:38:47 AM
More fun Intimidation stuff:

The Crimson Scourge (http://dndtools.eu/classes/crimson-scourge/) PrC from Cityscape gets the glorious Threaten ability. Not only do you get a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks to demoralize an opponent (kthx), you can also do so as a move action (yay!), and the opponent stays demoralized for 1 round per point of your Str bonus (YAY!). Now this leads to some nice and easy fear stacking, since you can still use your standard action to demoralize on the same turn. Frighten somebody as a full-round action, or panick them if you add in Instantaneous Rage! For 1 round per point of Str bonus!

This works even better with 9 Zhentarim Fighter sub levels, obviously, but you need lots of levels for that, since Crimson Scourge only gets this nice trick at 7th level. The rest of the class is a bit subpar, too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 22, 2013, 07:32:40 AM
Dread Pirate and Scarlet Corsair do it better... at level 5, both get an ability that lets you intimidate everyone within 30', and it lasts for Cha mod rounds.   With the Fearsome armor (DotU, I believe) you can do it as a move action, and with Imperious Command they're cowering.  Now throw in a level of Inspire Awe Bard (Dragon Magic variant) along with Haunting Melody and Requiem.

Total result?  Everyone within 30' must make a will save (vs your Perform check, undead are not immune) or be Frightened... if this lands, they stay that way as long as they're in range.  Next, you intimidate everyone within range with DP or SC, and now they just sit there cowering as long as you are close enough.  And you can keep that song up all day long, so you can do this trick forever.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on May 22, 2013, 09:16:58 AM
I'm aware of the Dread Pirate (never looked at Scarlet Corsair?), which is probably the superior class anyway. However, Crimson Scourge does it with Str instead of Cha, which is a nice change (no AoE, but that's what Dreadful Wrath/Never Outnumbered is for), and you don't need the Fearsome enchantment.


Another fun find: did you know Necropolitan works well with Stalwart Sorcerer? At least, you'll have the most HP out of all Necropolitans! Stalwart Sorcerer increases HP by 2 per level, after all. Stacking on some Evolved Undead (with LA buyoff, preferably) can net great Cha for your sorcery needs!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 22, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
Dread Pirate and Scarlet Corsair do it better... at level 5, both get an ability that lets you intimidate everyone within 30', and it lasts for Cha mod rounds.   With the Fearsome armor (DotU, I believe) you can do it as a move action, and with Imperious Command they're cowering.  Now throw in a level of Inspire Awe Bard (Dragon Magic variant) along with Haunting Melody and Requiem.

Total result?  Everyone within 30' must make a will save (vs your Perform check, undead are not immune) or be Frightened... if this lands, they stay that way as long as they're in range.  Next, you intimidate everyone within range with DP or SC, and now they just sit there cowering as long as you are close enough.  And you can keep that song up all day long, so you can do this trick forever.

JaronK
End result: you work like Loki in The Avengers before Captian America shows up.  You say "Kneel" and a whole crowd cowers before you until someone else interrupts you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 22, 2013, 11:04:44 AM
Hmm... Yeah it was

bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate are all pretty much the same

Initiated of Hextor adds Str mod to Intimidate, so could have Str x2 as the ability score
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on May 22, 2013, 03:28:51 PM
You are right about the awakened tree. Still plant traits + construct traits + hardness + 36 Int & Cha & Wis is pretty darn good.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on May 22, 2013, 06:05:03 PM
You are right about the awakened tree. Still plant traits + construct traits + hardness + 36 Int & Cha & Wis is pretty darn good.

I'm not sure where you're getting 36 from. It says 3d6.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 22, 2013, 09:00:36 PM
Maybe a typo?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 22, 2013, 09:14:07 PM
Golden Dragonmail (http://dndtools.eu/spells/champions-of-valor--28/golden-dragonmail--308/) is my find of the day. 11.5k armor for a 3rd level spell slot.

Bad news: Sorcerer/Wizard.
Good news: You are automatically proficient, and if you can get it on a cleric, you can ignore spell failure AND DMM persist that sucker. Cloistered Cleric no longer cares about the loss of armor proficiency.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on May 22, 2013, 09:16:11 PM
Maybe a typo?

- All its mental ability scores receive a base of 36, which is even better than PAOing into a black ethergaunt or Sarrukh. Also, do not forget the awesome +2 dex!

You are right about the awakened tree. Still plant traits + construct traits + hardness + 36 Int & Cha & Wis is pretty darn good.

I assumed so at first, as well, but it instead looks like a misunderstanding rather than a typo (due to multiple instances and comparison to black ethergaunts, which have 31 INT).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 22, 2013, 09:29:30 PM
Maybe a typo?

- All its mental ability scores receive a base of 36, which is even better than PAOing into a black ethergaunt or Sarrukh. Also, do not forget the awesome +2 dex!

You are right about the awakened tree. Still plant traits + construct traits + hardness + 36 Int & Cha & Wis is pretty darn good.

I assumed so at first, as well, but it instead looks like a misunderstanding rather than a typo (due to multiple instances and comparison to black ethergaunts, which have 31 INT).

Wasn't there an old thread about Awaken being Maximize/Empower capable, giving you a 27 base? Maybe it has something to do with that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on May 22, 2013, 09:30:36 PM
Maybe a typo?

- All its mental ability scores receive a base of 36, which is even better than PAOing into a black ethergaunt or Sarrukh. Also, do not forget the awesome +2 dex!

You are right about the awakened tree. Still plant traits + construct traits + hardness + 36 Int & Cha & Wis is pretty darn good.

I assumed so at first, as well, but it instead looks like a misunderstanding rather than a typo (due to multiple instances and comparison to black ethergaunts, which have 31 INT).

Wasn't there an old thread about Awaken being Maximize/Empower capable, giving you a 27 base? Maybe it has something to do with that?

The aforementioned 36 ability scores were due to applying the epic metamagic feat Intensify Spell (everything's 2x maximum) to Awaken.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SAI Peregrinus on May 23, 2013, 01:12:30 AM
There is no magic pants slot. When creating characters above first level I've seen many people skip buying an outfit. Depending on their armor that means there are many, many pantsless adventurers out there. And most of the ones in full plate probably have some painful pinching problems.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on May 23, 2013, 03:22:26 AM
No pants?  Then how do bards summon black bread? *wrongaudianceforjoke*
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 23, 2013, 07:37:41 AM
There is no magic pants slot. When creating characters above first level I've seen many people skip buying an outfit. Depending on their armor that means there are many, many pantsless adventurers out there. And most of the ones in full plate probably have some painful pinching problems.
They skip it because it's free, doesn't count toward encumbrance, or really matter.  For the first set, anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 23, 2013, 10:06:42 AM
There is no magic pants slot. When creating characters above first level I've seen many people skip buying an outfit. Depending on their armor that means there are many, many pantsless adventurers out there. And most of the ones in full plate probably have some painful pinching problems.
They skip it because it's free, doesn't count toward encumbrance, or really matter.  For the first set, anyway.
Is it only in pathfinder that the outfits have weight?

Also, I never forget; hot weather gear is available, and gives you a bonus against hot environments. Free +2 (or is it +4?) against the whole Hey-You're-In-A-Desert plot device? Sure!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 23, 2013, 01:40:23 PM
No, outfits in 3.5 have weight.  The first one is just free and doesn't count for encumberance.  If you carry more than that, then it counts against you.

However, the free clothes is from a short list of outfits, which neither cold weather nor hot weather gear is on.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 23, 2013, 01:59:26 PM
No, outfits in 3.5 have weight.  The first one is just free and doesn't count for encumberance.  If you carry more than that, then it counts against you.

However, the free clothes is from a short list of outfits, which neither cold weather nor hot weather gear is on.
I always thought it was just <10 gp.

Boy, I play pathfinder WAY too much to try to do 3.5 on these boards xnx
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on May 24, 2013, 01:06:29 PM
As I had recently suggested the use of Shadow Templar for Swiftblade, I decided to do another skim through of the Dark Sun PrCs, these stood out to me


Ambofari: progresses any spellcasting or manifesting class 6/10, Turn/Rebuke at 3rd

Royal Animator: They have a number of bonuses that can be applied to undead, that could also be considered in the creation of a Necropolitan - as per the usual usage of Dread Necromancer, CorpseCrafter, Desecrated, etc.

Elite Sniper: At a glance, looks like it actually might function as advertised, without spells

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 24, 2013, 02:35:38 PM
Changeling Morphing Serren Elvencraft Bow

elvencraft allows your bow to become a quarterstaff in melee.
changeling changes the type of weapon.
morphing changes within the type.

thus you can have your bow become any light, one-handed, two-handed, or ranged weapon
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 24, 2013, 02:46:15 PM
Changeling Morphing Serren Elvencraft Bow

elvencraft allows your bow to become a quarterstaff in melee.
changeling changes the type of weapon.
morphing changes within the type.

thus you can have your bow become any light, one-handed, two-handed, or ranged weapon
What's the cost on that? (Including +X bonus?)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 24, 2013, 03:18:10 PM
And where's Changeling from?

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on May 24, 2013, 03:25:11 PM
And where's Changeling from?

JaronK
Extrapolated from the type-shifting Spear, I presume.
(longspear, shortspear)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 24, 2013, 08:34:17 PM
A +1 changeling morphing serren elvencraft longbow costs ~14,625gp
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on May 24, 2013, 11:26:21 PM
Changeling Morphing Serren Elvencraft Bow

elvencraft allows your bow to become a quarterstaff in melee.
changeling changes the type of weapon.
morphing changes within the type.

thus you can have your bow become any light, one-handed, two-handed, or ranged weapon

Technically, morphing doesn't allow you to change the number of hands, so you could have any ranged weapon and two handed weapon. Changeling is a WSA that only works on spears. And technically, it's short spear, long spear, normal spear, so you'd be limited to one-handed and two-handed. Although I think that the halfspear, that was eliminated from 3.0 to 3.5, technically would become a light weapon under 3.5 rules. Still trying to work that one out. Regardless, it's not a form allowed by changeling.

What you are looking for is Morphing/Everchanging. If you take the everychanging blade from underdark, it does what you want. When I worked it out, Everchanging WSA property is the following:

(click to show/hide)

And where's Changeling from?

JaronK

(click to show/hide)

Seriously guys, I already did all this work on WSA 2.03 handbook. Give me a few more weeks and I'll finish the break down of all the Special weapons. Up to page 104 of 181 of very tiny 8 point font. SHould give you a gaggle of interesting finds.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 25, 2013, 03:03:48 AM
welll... sooorrryy :-p

yeah morphing doesn't change the number of hands, but if you add sizing, you can have any of the three.

Medium Longsword is a short sword for a giant and a greatsword for a halfling
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on May 25, 2013, 04:55:01 AM
welll... sooorrryy :-p

yeah morphing doesn't change the number of hands, but if you add sizing, you can have any of the three.

Medium Longsword is a short sword for a giant and a greatsword for a halfling

Isn't this only true in 3.0?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on May 25, 2013, 06:51:24 AM
welll... sooorrryy :-p

yeah morphing doesn't change the number of hands, but if you add sizing, you can have any of the three.

Medium Longsword is a short sword for a giant and a greatsword for a halfling

Isn't this only true in 3.0?


Sort of...

I suppose in one way of looking at it, it would work, but then you'd have to deal with a -2/-4 penalty all the time. But from a RAW point of view, I'd err on the size of caution and state that while sizing does change the number of hands needed, it doesn't change the number of hands the weapon uses. A huge one-handed weapon is still a huge one handed weapon, even if you are using exotic weapon feat/monkey grip to wield it.

It's poorly worded. For example:

Bastard Sword is a two handed weapon, unless you take the exotic weapon feat, then it's one handed. So I turn my quarterstaff into a bastard sword, then I can turn it into a short sword? If you say that only works if I have the feat, then what happens when I take Aptitude/Proficient/Skillful? How about the Great Bow?

I'd take a sledgehammer to the whole thing and start over with clear cut defined stats and qualities that can be easily understood. Weapon construction is full of problems like this. I never noticed before until I started "looking under the hood" so to speak.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on May 25, 2013, 09:39:46 AM
welll... sooorrryy :-p

yeah morphing doesn't change the number of hands, but if you add sizing, you can have any of the three.

Medium Longsword is a short sword for a giant and a greatsword for a halfling

Isn't this only true in 3.0?

Correct. Both because the weapon size rules are different (in 3.5, each weapon has a size of creature that its sized for, and each size category difference makes it one step easier or harder to use and also imposes a -2 penalty on attack rolls), and because, just from an absolute standpoint, a Medium longsword deals 1d8 damage but a Small greatsword deals 1d10 damage. Larger and smaller weapons of similar types are only the same if you use the weapon equivalencies variant, as described on page 27 of the DMG.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on May 25, 2013, 12:52:32 PM
Quote from: PHB p.113
Inappropriately Sized Weapons:A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder.
Thus, a human wielding a Small dagger takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls (one size category different), and an ogre wielding a Small longsword takes a –4 penalty (two size categories different). If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon (a wizard attempting to wield a Small battleaxe, for instance), a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or twohanded weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For instance, a Small greatsword (a two-handed weapon for a Small creature) is considered a one-handed weapon for a Medium creature, or a light weapon for a Large creature. Conversely, a Large dagger (a light weapon for a Large creature) is considered a one-handed weapon for a Medium creature, or a two-handed weapon for a Small creature. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

I'm partial to using small-size reach weapons (glaives, longspears) on Medium sized creatures. Closest thing to a hoplite I can manage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 25, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
/\
 |
this is what I was referring to, just didn't say from what. This means a Medium Longsword is one-handed for a Medium creature, two-handed for a Small creature, and light for a Large creature. Thus w sizing, it can morph into any non-ranged weapon.


obviously that Underdark item is better
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on May 27, 2013, 07:38:17 AM
/\
 |
this is what I was referring to, just didn't say from what. This means a Medium Longsword is one-handed for a Medium creature, two-handed for a Small creature, and light for a Large creature. Thus w sizing, it can morph into any non-ranged weapon.
obviously that Underdark item is better

So... what you are saying is...

You'd allow me to buy a medium morphing sizing dagger, turn it into a huge dagger, thus making it go from light to two-handed, then you'd let me turn it into a medium greatsword?

I'm just curious as to why. Working on the finishing touches on the Extrapolated Weapon Special Ability Handbook 1.01, but I'm more then willing to revisit WSA 2.03 if you have a good reason for why the weapon's size changes but the number of hands doesn't when you use morphing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 27, 2013, 01:46:13 PM
Why? Because my interpretation of how it is written, along with that verbiage about weapon sizing and handed-ness, allows this to happen.

you could possibly do this with other rules, like improvised weapons.

ex: a greatsword used as a improvised bastard sword. This means you have access to two- and one-handed weapons. Turn it into a scimitar which could be used as a large kukri, this then resizes and allows light weapons


I agree some of this is on the brink of ridiculous, but by RAW it works. Not like there's other ridiculous RAW stuff

@at your other question, yes I would. Its far from the most disruptive ability out there. And it gives melee chars something good.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on May 27, 2013, 04:16:24 PM
A scimitar could never be used as a giant kukri.  The blade is on the wrong side. 
Otherwise, I agree. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 27, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
I know.. I couldn't think quickly of any thing else. Battleaxe to handsxe? Short sword to dagger?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 27, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
interesting twist: if you have a level of monk, thus the unarmed strike ability allowing an unarmed strike to count as weapon or natural weapon; add in the necklace of natural weapons, and place these abilities on them, then you could literally change your hands, feet, hair, whatever... into a weapon. maybe add the metaline enhancement.

mix in a bit of warshaper for extra natural weapons.

now pick up multi/two weapon fighting and multiattack and go to town with all your extra natural weapons.

which incidentally, also allows a monk to have +5 to unarmed strike, as the unarmed strike counts as a single natural weapon for purposes of the necklace, and much cheaper than the amulet of mighty fists.

however, if you want to mix unarmed strike and a bunch of natural weapons, the amulet winds up being cheaper overall.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on May 27, 2013, 06:41:35 PM
You know what I just noticed?

Transdimensional Spell  (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/transdimensional-spell--2957/)+ True Creation = Ghost Touch + Weapon/Armor/Whatever.

I probably read that one wrong, though...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on May 27, 2013, 07:32:28 PM
Some stuff from Dragon #332

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 27, 2013, 07:42:41 PM
I think you mean Dragon 332.

Edit - Also while description text says Barbarians can gain it, neither the description text nor the Feat's prerequisites state in any way it is Barbarian only.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on May 27, 2013, 08:12:23 PM
EDIT: never mind, missed the first clause in the description.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 27, 2013, 08:40:25 PM
interesting twist: if you have a level of monk, thus the unarmed strike ability allowing an unarmed strike to count as weapon or natural weapon; add in the necklace of natural weapons, and place these abilities on them, then you could literally change your hands, feet, hair, whatever... into a weapon. maybe add the metaline enhancement.

mix in a bit of warshaper for extra natural weapons.

now pick up multi/two weapon fighting and multiattack and go to town with all your extra natural weapons.

which incidentally, also allows a monk to have +5 to unarmed strike, as the unarmed strike counts as a single natural weapon for purposes of the necklace, and much cheaper than the amulet of mighty fists.

however, if you want to mix unarmed strike and a bunch of natural weapons, the amulet winds up being cheaper overall.

Isn't a monks unarmed strike their whole body? That would mean that their entire body would be turned into a weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 27, 2013, 11:02:52 PM
The alphorn in Song and Silence lets you use bardic music at a distance of 1d10 miles
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 27, 2013, 11:42:07 PM
interesting twist: if you have a level of monk, thus the unarmed strike ability allowing an unarmed strike to count as weapon or natural weapon; add in the necklace of natural weapons, and place these abilities on them, then you could literally change your hands, feet, hair, whatever... into a weapon. maybe add the metaline enhancement.

mix in a bit of warshaper for extra natural weapons.

now pick up multi/two weapon fighting and multiattack and go to town with all your extra natural weapons.

which incidentally, also allows a monk to have +5 to unarmed strike, as the unarmed strike counts as a single natural weapon for purposes of the necklace, and much cheaper than the amulet of mighty fists.

however, if you want to mix unarmed strike and a bunch of natural weapons, the amulet winds up being cheaper overall.

Isn't a monks unarmed strike their whole body? That would mean that their entire body would be turned into a weapon.

pretty much. it will depend on the dm, really. only part attacking counts while it is attacking, or the whole body are the two most likely dm determinations.

in either case the end result is interesting. you can either change your attacking parts into pretty much whatever weapons you want, or you can change the entire monk into a weapon. and that might not fall under the usual shapechanging and poly rules, so you probably get to keep all your necklace enhancements.

the question becomes, if someone else wields the monk, does it still count as an unarmed strike when the monk hits someone or do their abilities override? this sounds like the perfect fastball special combo. throw the monk as a weapon, it falls into an adjacent square, the monk attacks....
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 28, 2013, 12:32:50 AM
Dancing monk?

oh, I forgot to say "alphorn + shrink item" above
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on May 28, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
Adding enhancements to whole monk's body starts getting weird really fast.

Throwing Teleporting Fleshgrinding Dancing Monk?
It is even hard to interpret.

A ghost touch monk could be abusable, if we stick to the last sentence...

EDIT Didn't notice that dancing was already mentioned, even tough it is the very post above  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 28, 2013, 03:30:02 PM
Yeah fleshgrinding would get crazy, esp if you had a necklace w it for several unarmed strikes.

oh my foot starting grinding you, now my elbow, ahhh! now my hips?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on May 28, 2013, 03:55:54 PM
Yeah fleshgrinding would get crazy...
Doesn't that happen every weekend at every youth rave on the planet?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on May 28, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
Yeah fleshgrinding would get crazy...
Doesn't that happen every weekend at every youth rave on the planet?
Certainly in Faerun (c.f. festhalls).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 28, 2013, 04:46:03 PM
Awesome find for Archivists: Mule's Enlightenment.  It's a spell that lasts a really long time and grants you a feat of your choice, plus a bunch of other bonuses.  Now use it to give yourself the Extra Spell feat.  Scribe the spell.  Repeat tomorrow.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on May 28, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
Source for Mule's Enlightenment, please?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lo77o on May 28, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
Awesome find for Archivists: Mule's Enlightenment.  It's a spell that lasts a really long time and grants you a feat of your choice, plus a bunch of other bonuses.  Now use it to give yourself the Extra Spell feat.  Scribe the spell.  Repeat tomorrow.

JaronK

Just like Alter Self/Polymorph etc into a human for a bonus feat?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 28, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
Source for Mule's Enlightenment, please?

at a guess, one of the official kalamar licensed books.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 28, 2013, 05:48:11 PM
Source for Mule's Enlightenment, please?
Yeah no kidding. 'D&D "Mule's Enlightenment"' as a google search pulls one hit. JaronK's post on the Full Spell list. Soon this one will be added, but the entire net has no idea on it. I've gotten better hits for Dungeon content...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on May 28, 2013, 06:37:02 PM
Alter Self doesn't last long enough to scribe it.  ME lasts an hour per level.  But it's from Divine Masters (page 236), so we're talking about a setting specific (from Kalamar!) spell.  Should be legal in Eberron though.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 28, 2013, 06:59:15 PM
hmm ... make the Alter Self the metapsi part of Linked.
(Really long term spell X) +linked (Alter Self).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 28, 2013, 07:29:45 PM
That'd be why. Most of the 2nd party stuff isn't well referenced. Dragon Mag makes a horrible name for it, and Dragonlance I can't say helps, only they DL's most powerful stuff rolls out of the WotC's book (the campaign setting, reserves of strength/dragonspawn/etc).

KoK on the other hand. I never made it past the first book. Class wise nothing to major to be found, Spellsinger is a Sorcerer with Eschew Material Components and ignores Somatic Components but adds verbal to everything meaning it ignores Arcane Spell Failure chance. So I was already set to expect this book to hand out stuff far beyond what ever D&D Splat gives. But like anything, it's not the Classes or PrCs that take my first interest, but items, Feats, and Spells, in that order.

Items
KoK has lots of Alchemical stuff and herbs, woot. Nothing too powerful form what I recall, just shark repellent and save-less instant coma in a bottle. Oh boy, I hope the magical side has cool stuff. Just gotta read past the slave section and these arrows that always remove Dex-to-AC...

There is an armor that instantly cures you when you drop below 0HP but don't die. Unlimited use and I recall thinking it's pretty cheap for low level use. There is also a cheap casts Greater Dispel Magic each time you hit weapon. Then a +2 unnamed to Dex potion, some +1 Save DCs rings, that +! Comp Ioun Stone in 2k ring form, a spiffy +2 all Knowledge Skills ring, and Pelor knows what else.

Feats
There is a chain in there I make into jpegs. Eyes of Fury, once-per-round Free Action Gaze attack that shakens opponents. Fearsome Appearance requires it and adds a Will Save or any opponent cannot take an AoO against you. Commanding Presence tops this chain off with a none-Fear based infinite Free Action and Saving doesn't render you immune makes people Flee unless they have no other option. DCs are 10+ChaMod but who cares, you can make a Paladin crap his pants.

Oh, KoK is the source of Irresistible Spell, which is a +4 Metamagic that denies your chance to Save, I think it got updated to +10 Save DCs. But more importantly you can pick up a Feat to trade Turn Undead uses into ungodly effects. Like Saveless Confusion, Cone of Saveless Shaken, Cone of Web, deal WisMod Negative Levels to a target, and who knows what else.

Spells
I skipped it. I'm sure it's loaded with some overpowered content ripe for picking. KoK, like Dragon, was out to make a bad name for 2nd party material.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 28, 2013, 08:29:36 PM
@Soro, check out the Tower of Hugh Sorcery. It has some really cool spells. Mine are Arcane Staff, the time spells, and the one that sucks away caster levels (I think its in that one)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on May 28, 2013, 08:56:57 PM
@Soro, check out the Tower of Hugh Sorcery. It has some really cool spells. Mine are Arcane Staff, the time spells, and the one that sucks away caster levels (I think its in that one)

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/14/1360839262962/Hugh-Laurie-in-House-010.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on May 28, 2013, 10:05:33 PM
:facepalm
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Elevevated Beat on May 28, 2013, 11:06:36 PM
@Soro, check out the Tower of Hugh Sorcery. It has some really cool spells. Mine are Arcane Staff, the time spells, and the one that sucks away caster levels (I think its in that one)

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/14/1360839262962/Hugh-Laurie-in-House-010.jpg)

The Tower of Hugh Laurie? With his Cursed Artifact Staff of Cure Disease/Poison that has a majority chance to not work the first couple of times.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on May 28, 2013, 11:40:44 PM
Urban Arcana (and, by extension, the D20 Modern SRD) has the Supernatural Strike feat, which flat-out lets you crit normally uncrittable creature types. The only limitations are BAB +2 requirement and that it's a supernatural ability. If you're playing a D&D game and can convince your DM to let in a feat from what is technically another game system, it's probably worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on May 29, 2013, 02:35:30 AM
Items
KoK has lots of Alchemical stuff and herbs, woot. Nothing too powerful form what I recall, just shark repellent and save-less instant coma in a bottle. Oh boy, I hope the magical side has cool stuff. Just gotta read past the slave section and these arrows that always remove Dex-to-AC...

There is an armor that instantly cures you when you drop below 0HP but don't die. Unlimited use and I recall thinking it's pretty cheap for low level use. There is also a cheap casts Greater Dispel Magic each time you hit weapon. Then a +2 unnamed to Dex potion, some +1 Save DCs rings, that +! Comp Ioun Stone in 2k ring form, a spiffy +2 all Knowledge Skills ring, and Pelor knows what else.

You missed the potion of blood that causes you to be treated as a member of any race for magic items, and dragon shenanigans might be involved. It's also permanent, and only 750gp.

Relics...Relics just got so much easier.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 29, 2013, 01:13:21 PM
Urban Arcana (and, by extension, the D20 Modern SRD) has the Supernatural Strike feat, which flat-out lets you crit normally uncrittable creature types. The only limitations are BAB +2 requirement and that it's a supernatural ability. If you're playing a D&D game and can convince your DM to let in a feat from what is technically another game system, it's probably worth mentioning.

i've been meaning to mine the d20 for compatible content for a while now....

would that affect objects, by any chance, not just creature types?



edit: n/m, just saw your response in my other thread. ^^
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on May 29, 2013, 01:49:31 PM
interesting twist: if you have a level of monk, thus the unarmed strike ability allowing an unarmed strike to count as weapon or natural weapon; add in the necklace of natural weapons, and place these abilities on them, then you could literally change your hands, feet, hair, whatever... into a weapon. maybe add the metaline enhancement.

mix in a bit of warshaper for extra natural weapons.

now pick up multi/two weapon fighting and multiattack and go to town with all your extra natural weapons.

which incidentally, also allows a monk to have +5 to unarmed strike, as the unarmed strike counts as a single natural weapon for purposes of the necklace, and much cheaper than the amulet of mighty fists.

however, if you want to mix unarmed strike and a bunch of natural weapons, the amulet winds up being cheaper overall.

At first blush, I was going to say no, but then I remembered you can put throwing and returning on a NoNWs. So, yeah. Scary as hell when your enemy turns his hand into a giant fleshy long sword. Ooo, you can make it any natural material you want. Bone. Big bone sword where my arm was. heh.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on May 29, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
At first blush, I was going to say no, but then I remembered you can put throwing and returning on a NoNWs. So, yeah. Scary as hell when your enemy turns his hand into a giant fleshy long sword. Ooo, you can make it any natural material you want. Bone. Big bone sword where my arm was. heh.

you mean like this?



(http://i5.mangareader.net/abara/1/abara-1049091.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 29, 2013, 07:01:08 PM
@Soro, check out the Tower of Hugh Sorcery. It has some really cool spells. Mine are Arcane Staff, the time spells, and the one that sucks away caster levels (I think its in that one)
(click to show/hide)

The Tower of Hugh Laurie? With his Cursed Artifact Staff of Cure Disease/Poison that has a majority chance to not work the first couple of times.

 :lol ... it's a 4e Ritual that takes exactly and only
4 units of 10 minute rituals with a 5 minute short rest;
multiple skill challenges that never succeed, until the
very end.  "Hit On Betty Badly" is almost every time.
Excepting the 1/season cliffhanger power.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 29, 2013, 11:37:01 PM
Beware of it's uber curse. Should you fail to save an ally you die!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on May 30, 2013, 08:05:55 PM
As much as I don't like Pathfinder I have to admit they come up with some damn cool spells  :clap:

Quote
Mad Monkeys
School conjuration (summoning); Level bard 3, druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, DF
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect swarm of monkeys
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

You summon a swarm of screeching, mischievous monkeys. The swarm understands and obeys your commands and has the statistics of a monkey swarm. Creatures failing a saving throw against the mad monkeys' distraction attack are deafened for 1 minute as well as nauseated. The monkeys attempt one disarm or steal combat maneuver each turn as a free action against any creature that begins its turn in the swarm, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for druids and oracles; Charisma for bards, sorcerers, and summoners) for its CMB. Recovering an item from the monkeys requires a successful disarm or steal attempt against that CMB + 10. An object stolen by the monkeys takes swarm damage each round the swarm is in possession of the object.

Not just spells actually. The fluff and ideas are so much more crazy and colourful and creative than in 3.5. Too bad the mechanics are so... :puke
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on June 01, 2013, 10:25:37 AM
Dragon #339, pg 92-93 has [Hex] feats, which affect the Hexblade's Curse ability.

Most of these suck, but 3 of them stuck out:With 1 flaw, a human hexblade could drop a -5 penalty to saves for an entire day at 1st level.  Rock on.  At 19th level, it's a -9 to saves, which is almost Doomspeak, with no save to resist.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on June 01, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
The Dissipater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#dissipater) weapon property lets you automatically crit a certain subset of targets (ectoplasmic creatures and objects). However, all of the examples they give are immune to crits.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on June 02, 2013, 06:27:49 PM
More fun with Kalamar!

First off, Salt and Sea Dogs has the pike... 11gp for a 15' reach pole arm that does 1d10 damage.  Really it should be 1d8, but that's third party for you.  The main thing is it's Martial, which is appropriate.

Second, Kingdoms of Kalamar has options to make poisons better.  Increasing the DC to make the poison by 2 increases the resist DC by one, and increases the cost by 10%.  Combined with Minor or Major Creation and you can get truly lethal poisons that are effective even into the late game (except against poison immunes of course).  Just make sure you can hit the craft DC...which shouldn't be impossible.  Combine with the Assassination weapon enchantment and various save reducers and you should land poison consistently.  DC 35 Black Lotus Poison (DC 30 poison delivered from a +5 Assassination weapon) is pretty darn brutal.  You can also make inhaled Black Lotus poison (raises the DC to make it by 4).

I was looking for that blood stuff that changes your type, but I couldn't find it.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 02, 2013, 11:32:42 PM
Forget Black Lotus, use standard Drow poison and end the encounter.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on June 03, 2013, 05:17:22 AM
Drow poison is, IIRC, not explicitly made from vegetable matter and thus cannot be summoned with Minor or Major Creation (plus the costs of these upgrades make them even more infeasable than normal poison).

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 03, 2013, 10:39:27 AM
In Underdark, I think, they say it is made from fungus, which counts as plant matter in the game
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on June 03, 2013, 11:23:02 AM
Drunken Master 4+ Spool of endless rope= as much reach as you want.

How do we abuse this to its fullest potential?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on June 03, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
Drunken Master 4+ Spool of endless rope= as much reach as you want.

How do we abuse this to its fullest potential?
war hulk 10. Attack every square in the universe with a standard action
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on June 03, 2013, 12:20:28 PM
Drunken Master 4+ Spool of endless rope= as much reach as you want.

How do we abuse this to its fullest potential?
war hulk 10. Attack every square in the universe with a standard action

Actually it seems I missed a sentence:

Quote
To use a spool of endless rope, the owner feeds out as little or as much rope as desired, up to a maximum of 500 feet at any one time.


I suppose if you can use the "splice" option of the Use Rope skill to combine multiple 500 ft pieces of the rope it could still work...I dunno if it would count as a single improvised weapon though...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 03, 2013, 06:34:16 PM
If its a single item (1000ft rope) you can use it as one. It takes lvl4 drunken master for the full reach, instead of a 15ft whip
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on June 03, 2013, 08:18:01 PM
If its a single item (1000ft rope) you can use it as one. It takes lvl4 drunken master for the full reach, instead of a 15ft whip

The problem is that I don't know if a bunch of spliced together ropes counts as a single item.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 04, 2013, 12:20:27 AM
That's what Use Rope is for ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 05, 2013, 12:14:55 AM
The OA shapechanger prestige (updated to 3.5 in dragon 318) not only grants 3 wild shapes per day at 1st level without requiring wild shape as a prerequisite, but it explicitly keys the wild shape HD limit off of your character level, rather than class level like the druid does. keep in mind that the duration still functions like the druid class feature, and is thus based on shapechanger level (plus qualifying stacking prestige classes).

the feat requirements (alertness and endurance) are a pain, but the concentration 10 is pretty easy to pick up. if you are focusing on wild shape and are multi classing picking up a single level is an easy way to make up for lost HD potential. wild shaping ranger kicks in at 5, this can't be taken until 7, or 6 with early entry. this is my preferred method for qualifying a psionic build for wild shape. as a single level dip, it is quite nice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 05, 2013, 01:42:18 AM
Its a great choice to combine w Planar Shepherd or MoMF
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 05, 2013, 11:01:01 AM
Its a great choice to combine w Planar Shepherd or MoMF

my current build is psion (egoist ACF) 1, psy war 5, shapechanger 1 (with early entry), momf 2, and warshaper 2. focused on defensive strength / infiltration & spying.

early entry costs two feats, though, i'm wondering if i should drop a level of momf, add one of psy war or something, and just delay the wild shaping one level. anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 05, 2013, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: SRD
Psicrystal Power:When the owner reaches 21st level, and every 10 levels after, the psicrystal gains the benefit of the Psicrystal Power epic feat for the power its master chooses.
Quote from: SRD
Benefit:Choose one power you know of 8th level or lower. Your psicrystal can now manifest this power once per day at your manifester level (the psicrystal gains sufficient power points to manifest the power once). You cannot bestow a power upon your psicrystal if the power normally has any experience point cost.
So unless your psicrystal has a psicrystal this is pretty useless. Not sure if it is a fun find, but it is quite funnily bad worded.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 05, 2013, 12:29:59 PM
never realized just how many things the endurance feat affects...

Quote
Endurance = +4 on:
Swim checks vs nonlethal damage (phb 84),
Con checks vs running (phb 144),
Con checks vs nonlethal damage: forced march (phb 164),
Con checks made to hold your breath (phb 84),
Con checks vs nonlethal damage: starve/thirst (dmg 304),
Fort saves vs nonlethal damage: environments (dmg 302),
Fortitude saves vs suffocation (dmg 304).
Also, may sleep in light or medium armor without fatigue.

and what a scattered bunch of references. =P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 05, 2013, 01:11:36 PM
At least Endurance leads into Steadfast Determination (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/steadfast-determination--2761/).  Not always worth two feats for a druid, but for someone whose Con will definitely be higher than their Wis, which should be almost every other shapechanger, it'd be nice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 05, 2013, 02:23:49 PM
At least Endurance leads into Steadfast Determination (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/steadfast-determination--2761/).  Not always worth two feats for a druid, but for someone whose Con will definitely be higher than their Wis, which should be almost every other shapechanger, it'd be nice.
Oh yes.  Huge Giant with 15+ HD and the Iron Will feat?  Screw a measly +2!  I'll drop one other feat I wasn't going to use anyway (Improved Overrun?  Improved Sunder?) and give him +8 or better to his Will saves, AND get to not fail Fort saves on a 1.

Absolutely worth it on high-Con critters.  Dusk Giants (HoH) are a prime example.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 05, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030611a), you can make moving portal frames. Throw one in the bottom of your Portable Hole, and have awesome fast-time plane access for crafting. (At least, that's what my Artificer is doing)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 05, 2013, 03:02:38 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030611a), you can make moving portal frames. Throw one in the bottom of your Portable Hole, and have awesome fast-time plane access for crafting. (At least, that's what my Artificer is doing)

there are a number of easier ways of doing this.

besides, it is not safe to put a portal and a portable hole together.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 05, 2013, 03:20:19 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030611a), you can make moving portal frames. Throw one in the bottom of your Portable Hole, and have awesome fast-time plane access for crafting. (At least, that's what my Artificer is doing)

there are a number of easier ways of doing this.

besides, it is not safe to put a portal and a portable hole together.
Eh? What's the easier way?

And... why isn't it safe? Works perfectly fine, as far as I can tell...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 05, 2013, 03:30:10 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but in a web article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030611a), you can make moving portal frames. Throw one in the bottom of your Portable Hole, and have awesome fast-time plane access for crafting. (At least, that's what my Artificer is doing)

there are a number of easier ways of doing this.

besides, it is not safe to put a portal and a portable hole together.
Eh? What's the easier way?

And... why isn't it safe? Works perfectly fine, as far as I can tell...

Quote from: from the SRD (and PHB)
Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

i know that many dm's seem to apply this to any sort of extra-dimensional claudication, such as the interface boundary of a portal. if a portal does not count, then you are fine.

there are three main ways of creating a fast time area, all of which depend upon a spell or power of varying level. let's see: anchor plane, acorn of far travel, and... the planar bubble one; iirc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 05, 2013, 04:58:04 PM
never realized just how many things the endurance feat affects...

Quote
Endurance = +4 on:
Swim checks vs nonlethal damage (phb 84),
Con checks vs running (phb 144),
Con checks vs nonlethal damage: forced march (phb 164),
Con checks made to hold your breath (phb 84),
Con checks vs nonlethal damage: starve/thirst (dmg 304),
Fort saves vs nonlethal damage: environments (dmg 302),
Fortitude saves vs suffocation (dmg 304).
Also, may sleep in light or medium armor without fatigue.

and what a scattered bunch of references. =P

Two separate +1s.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 05, 2013, 05:03:14 PM
Drunken Master 4+ Spool of endless rope= as much reach as you want.

How do we abuse this to its fullest potential?
war hulk 10. Attack every square in the universe with a standard action

Actually it seems I missed a sentence:

Quote
To use a spool of endless rope, the owner feeds out as little or as much rope as desired, up to a maximum of 500 feet at any one time.


I suppose if you can use the "splice" option of the Use Rope skill to combine multiple 500 ft pieces of the rope it could still work...I dunno if it would count as a single improvised weapon though...
Why not ... double ended weapons exist.
Say like a big Staff can equal a Ladder (improv weapon).

Double Sword + 2 of those Endless Ropes + PAO on them all = maybe.

You could pay for a single Omniscificer check on Use Rope, 1 time.
(evil grin)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 06, 2013, 01:47:00 AM
More fun with Kalamar!

First off, Salt and Sea Dogs has the pike... 11gp for a 15' reach pole arm that does 1d10 damage.  Really it should be 1d8, but that's third party for you.  The main thing is it's Martial, which is appropriate.

Second, Kingdoms of Kalamar has options to make poisons better.  Increasing the DC to make the poison by 2 increases the resist DC by one, and increases the cost by 10%.  Combined with Minor or Major Creation and you can get truly lethal poisons that are effective even into the late game (except against poison immunes of course).  Just make sure you can hit the craft DC...which shouldn't be impossible.  Combine with the Assassination weapon enchantment and various save reducers and you should land poison consistently.  DC 35 Black Lotus Poison (DC 30 poison delivered from a +5 Assassination weapon) is pretty darn brutal.  You can also make inhaled Black Lotus poison (raises the DC to make it by 4).

I was looking for that blood stuff that changes your type, but I couldn't find it.

JaronK

Page 198 of the Player's Guide. Changes your official race to whatever made the potion for magic items. Might be fun if you have a Kalshatar make it or a caster who's polymorphed into a horse.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 06, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
I don't see 198 pgs in my copy
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 06, 2013, 02:18:10 PM
Strange, it's on page 255 of my copy.  It's titled “Kingdoms of Kalamar: Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands” and is copyright 2006. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 06, 2013, 02:21:39 PM
there are two versions of the kalamar player's guide, one is 3.0 and the other is 3.5, iirc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 06, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
there are two versions of the kalamar player's guide, one is 3.0 and the other is 3.5, iirc.

The Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Guide (it's got a red cover with a heraldic shield on it) is 3.0.  This version has the Blood Potion on pg 198. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on June 06, 2013, 03:29:48 PM
Ah, found it... looks like I have the 3.0 copy.  I hope there weren't a lot of changes in the 3.5 version... does the name change or something?

Either way, that potion is incredible.  I'm thinking of combining it with Extract Gift... get EG as a spell like ability, then make yourself count as a demon.  Now grant other people stat boosts while giving yourself the ability to see out their eyes.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Tohron on June 06, 2013, 04:25:11 PM
So, would Blood Potion let you enter Beholder Mage without constantly having to worry about getting dispelled (or is it an explicit requirement that you have eyestalks)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 06, 2013, 04:36:13 PM
:facepalm
I was thinking Faerun
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 06, 2013, 06:17:36 PM
It all runs together after a while.
 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 06, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
all part of the same chiliocosm. after all, earth is an official part of the greyhawk campaign setting. well, according to gygax, anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on June 06, 2013, 08:18:38 PM
And FR's Mulhorandi are literally Egyptians.  And Elminster has a portal to Ed Greenwood's garden.  Where he liked to have tea with Mordenkeinen and Dalamar.

...
Our hobby is a bit strange.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 06, 2013, 09:31:14 PM
Our hobby is a bit strange.
The comics fans have Grant Morrison.

...I rest my case. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Elevevated Beat on June 07, 2013, 12:25:35 AM
Ah, found it... looks like I have the 3.0 copy.  I hope there weren't a lot of changes in the 3.5 version... does the name change or something?

Either way, that potion is incredible.  I'm thinking of combining it with Extract Gift... get EG as a spell like ability, then make yourself count as a demon.  Now grant other people stat boosts while giving yourself the ability to see out their eyes.

JaronK

So, would Blood Potion let you enter Beholder Mage without constantly having to worry about getting dispelled (or is it an explicit requirement that you have eyestalks)?

Just on these two points, would they work?

IIRC, Blood Potion only changes your type with concern to Spells and SLAs. So JaronK's example would work, but not Tohron's (or, say a Human Beguiler trying to prestige into Shadow Mage (the Gnome only class))???

Edit: Or does 3.5 change it a fair bit? I think I only have the 3.0 one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on June 07, 2013, 09:08:03 AM
Ah, found it... looks like I have the 3.0 copy.  I hope there weren't a lot of changes in the 3.5 version... does the name change or something?

Either way, that potion is incredible.  I'm thinking of combining it with Extract Gift... get EG as a spell like ability, then make yourself count as a demon.  Now grant other people stat boosts while giving yourself the ability to see out their eyes.

JaronK

So, would Blood Potion let you enter Beholder Mage without constantly having to worry about getting dispelled (or is it an explicit requirement that you have eyestalks)?

Just on these two points, would they work?

IIRC, Blood Potion only changes your type with concern to Spells and SLAs. So JaronK's example would work, but not Tohron's (or, say a Human Beguiler trying to prestige into Shadow Mage (the Gnome only class))???

Edit: Or does 3.5 change it a fair bit? I think I only have the 3.0 one.

Correction, Blood Potion only changes your type for ITEMS. You may use the ever-awesome horseshoes of +10 int, but you would not be able to cast a dragon only spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on June 07, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
DR318 p53

Hook attacks (as in yarr pirates) are count as natural instead of as weapons!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on June 07, 2013, 04:55:27 PM
Yeah, the horseshoes thing seems to be the best usage.  Though Savage Species has a ritual to change your subtype for purposes of magic and magic items... the Tenari Subtype should be enough to use Extract Gift.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 07, 2013, 05:33:18 PM
Yeah, the horseshoes thing seems to be the best usage.  Though Savage Species has a ritual to change your subtype for purposes of magic and magic items... the Tenari Subtype should be enough to use Extract Gift.

JaronK

Or Kalshatar if you've got a decent manifester level. Embedded shards rock pretty hard.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 07, 2013, 06:30:03 PM
Yeah, the horseshoes thing seems to be the best usage.  Though Savage Species has a ritual to change your subtype for purposes of magic and magic items... the Tenari Subtype should be enough to use Extract Gift.

JaronK

Or Kalshatar if you've got a decent manifester level. Embedded shards rock pretty hard.

pun intended?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 07, 2013, 08:28:57 PM
Yeah, the horseshoes thing seems to be the best usage.  Though Savage Species has a ritual to change your subtype for purposes of magic and magic items... the Tenari Subtype should be enough to use Extract Gift.

JaronK

Or Kalshatar if you've got a decent manifester level. Embedded shards rock pretty hard.

pun intended?

You know it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 07, 2013, 09:58:33 PM
The Purifier of the Hallowed Doctrine from Heroes of Horror has a fun 5th level class feature.

Turn Tainted.

Essentially, as long as a creature has a Corruption/Depravity score of at least 1, you may count it as if it were an Undead creature with +4 Turn Resistance for the purposes of Turning.

If you have levels in this class, you are probably playing in a campaign where the Taint rules are used. It is really easy to get a Taint score, or, rather, to give it to someone else.

On the same page as one of the prerequisite feats, Pure Soul (page 124, a nice little feat granting you immunity to Taint) is Touch of Taint. If you have any natural weapon that inflicts ability damage (it explicitly calls out poison as counting), it adds inflicting a single point of either Depravity or Corruption with that attack.

In other words, you can now turn practically anything. And by practically, I mean "if you can possibly hit it with a natural attack. Yeah. Trivial."

I seem to remember some wording somewhere stating that anything that worked for Turning worked for Rebuking...

Get a way to rebuke a creature, and, iirc, you can command anything not explicitly immune.

I gotta go find that reference now...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 08, 2013, 11:30:49 AM
3 levels of Nentyar Hunter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/nentyar-hunter/) (or 1 level and some advancement PrC) grant access to the Moon Blade (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/moon-blade--1205/) spell. It can be treated as any kind of sword for abilities which rely on that kind of sword. Among other things, this means you can take Whirling Steel StrikeECS to treat it as a monk weapon. Other characters who could benefit include Swordsages (treating it as a discipline weapon) and Champions of Corellon Larethian (gaining Dex to damage).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 12:59:09 PM
While Strength bonuses don't apply, effects like Skirmish & Sneak Attack would. That could seriously screw over a pure spellcaster.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on June 08, 2013, 03:52:50 PM
I found a Death Note in D&D!

Quote
Book of Blood: Bound in blood-red leather and bearing a bronze clasp, this vellum spellbook is waterproof, fireproof, and lockable, and can contain up to forty-five spells of any level. In addition, once per day, its owner can use the book to cast summon monster IV to summon a yeth hound. The book can also be used to cast finger of death once per day, but each such use permanently drains 1 hit point from the wielder. The book must be held to utilize its powers.
Strong conjuration, strong necromancy; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, finger of death, summon monster IV; Price 21,300 gp; Weight 3 lb.

The best part? It makes no mention of using Temporary HP to bypass the drawback on the Finger of Death ability! Perfect for the BBEG.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 08, 2013, 03:59:35 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 08, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
Wow, and how early can you buy one?

3.0e psi has a 1hp version of Vigor.
0.5*1*400 = 200gp for the 1 temp hp.
Call it / make it a book sleeve.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 08, 2013, 04:11:20 PM
Well, I'm sure permanent HP loss by intent applies to temporary hit points too :p

Sadly, it just casts Finger of Death. You still need line of effect, for them to be in range, you can order them to do anything, etc.
I sad. :(

And then I looked up the price. Per Creating Magic Items. Slay Living is 7*13*1,800, since it's per day it's then divided by (5/charges). Which is 32,760gp.
Summon Monster IX? +10,080.
Then the rest of it? Who knows.
All for 21.3k. Awesome.

Edit @Awakened, Fire/Water-proof should be in Complete Arcane. I suspect it's not much, still a cheap book for what it gives. Thanks to the monster limitation & HP drain I'm sure.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 08, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
What math, who me?

Then a slowly escalating version,
1*X*25 , but it'd be limited by MLs.
Still fairly cheap.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 08, 2013, 04:29:37 PM
SM 4 and restricted to Yeth Hound = discount but how much?

Waterproof = ??
Fireproof = ??
Lockable = cheap lock

45 spells of any level = max 45*9=405 pages
I read this as capacity; and ~*4 normal.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 09, 2013, 09:02:19 PM
More from Dark Sun...
-Dissimulated grants your Int mod to your Bluff checks, on top of Cha.
-Inspiring Presence grants all allies within 10ft a morale bonus to Will equal to your Cha mod.
-Protective grants you a Reflex save when your held item takes damage to take it yourself instead. Your gear gains a +4 bonus to their Reflex save.
-Freedom grants a limited number of extra move/standard actions per round
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 11, 2013, 01:59:40 PM
(click to show/hide)
Editor (WSAs): Radiant holding (+3) causes the ammo to do one point of force damage, thus allowing you to use any other WSAs that require you to do damage. However, the best one I could find was Flying (+1). Normally, you can’t do damage with an arrow and flying, but you don’t need to. This arrow can just fly up to your enemy and smash itself on the ground like a heat seeking missile. At 168 gp, it’s like a free attack. Buy a dozen, toss five or so into the air and order them to go hit your enemies. Since drawing an arrow is a free action, you can flip as many as you want into the air as you need. The only other WSA that fits the flying thunder arrow is explosive. True, it really cranks up the cost, but since the arrow is targeting the ground, explosive works. Lousy 2d4, but still...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 11, 2013, 05:09:17 PM
Laeral's Storm ArmorMoF is nonmetallic full plate that prevents the wearer from being "hindered or moved against her will by strong winds". I'm sure a druid could come up with a use for it.

From the same source, the spectral dagger is a 20kgp item that lets you use chill touch at will, and can be wielded as if it were a dagger (including iterative attacks). Fun for daggerspell mages, daggerspell shapers and invisible blades. It can't be thrown though, since the blade disappears when it leaves your hand.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 11, 2013, 05:26:44 PM
Laeral's Storm ArmorMoF is nonmetallic full plate that prevents the wearer from being "hindered or moved against her will by strong winds". I'm sure a druid could come up with a use for it.

combine that with some of the weather control spheres from SBG and a way of sensing targets, and stick it in a henge.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 11, 2013, 07:35:32 PM
Oh that'd go good with Stormlord Disciple 3 class ability in CPsi.
Big winds are one of those rare auto hit+damage things.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 11, 2013, 08:36:55 PM
There's some cool stuff in the Magic of Faerun
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 11, 2013, 09:32:45 PM
There's some cool stuff in the Magic of Faerun
Nomination for largest understatement this week?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 11, 2013, 09:56:11 PM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on June 11, 2013, 10:10:18 PM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.
This is the most wonderful case of text trumps table I've seen since Rainbow Servant.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
It forces them to re-roll preform with a penalty based on how much you're bluff beat their Concentration. It basically allows you to interrupt performances via bluff. Which probably shows up in maybe 2 or 3 of every 20 campaigns.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 11, 2013, 10:43:33 PM
Yeah I was JUST browsing the artificer and couldn't believe my eyes!

even though it only mentions an opposed bluff/perform check?

also, you can have 3 sets of armor spikes and razors each. Just use those extra armors from Oriental Adventures and a main armor, like chain shirt.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 12, 2013, 12:19:03 AM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)

How many instances of Exceptional/Legendary/Extraordinary Artisan does he get? They're Item Creation feats, IIRC. Does he get just one, applied to a feat of his choice - or one for every applicable feat?

Brain fart. Was thinking of Magical Artisan, which is not Item Creation.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 12, 2013, 12:25:03 AM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
The problem I see with that is the "near" clause. While they may actually get the feat by the literal reading, we don't know what level they actually get them. For all we know they could get all the feats at level 1000 because that is near to the level that spellcasters get them when looked at from a perspective broad enough perspective.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 12, 2013, 12:35:36 AM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
The problem I see with that is the "near" clause. While they may actually get the feat by the literal reading, we don't know what level they actually get them. For all we know they could get all the feats at level 1000 because that is near to the level that spellcasters get them when looked at from a perspective broad enough perspective.

Well, judging by the (I guess now "example") feats on the table, at-the-level. you meat the CL requirements. Every feat is gained at the level you meet its minimum CL (thanks to Wand being errata'd), and if your DM doesn't throw a book at you for pointing this out, that's the most likely level you'd pick them up.

Now, here's a question: do you bypass other requirements for the feat? For example, Craft Fiendish Graft requires you to be a fiend.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 12:40:36 AM
Partial ninja

it doesn't say you bypass the prerequisites besides the inability to cast arcane or divine spells, so you wouldn't.

the "near" would apply to the listed feats that aren't at the CL required, like Brew Potion (1 level early).

also, you only get feats that have a CL prereq (you don't get epic item creation feats, because they don't have a CL)


but do you keep getting the feats at that level if you're not taking artificer levels?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 12, 2013, 01:02:32 AM
Partial ninja

it doesn't say you bypass the prerequisites besides the inability to cast arcane or divine spells, so you wouldn't.

the "near" would apply to the listed feats that aren't at the CL required, like Brew Potion (1 level early).

also, you only get feats that have a CL prereq (you don't get epic item creation feats, because they don't have a CL)


but do you keep getting the feats at that level if you're not taking artificer levels?

I would say so. I'm reminded of the Warrior Skald PrC in this case - since it's tied to a CL requirement, I think you would get it whenever your Artificer CL meets the required CL.

A shame you don't bypass that racial limitation. I guess I still have to Bind+Ego Whip FoC Succubi until the graft Feathered Wings for me...
Truly, I am so put upon.


EDIT: Also, does Magical Artisan stack (that is, if I had Magical Artisan [Extraordinary Artisan] and Magical Artisan [Legendary Artisan], would I get both reductions)? If it does, what else besides the three Eberron Item Creation artisan feats can it be applied to that also applies to all or nearly all things you create?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 01:11:52 AM
There are several graft types that don't have a racial prereq.

but a changeling w Racial Emulation could 'bypass' the racial prereq... Just emulate a incarnate half-golem babau (technically a humanoid fiend) for fiendish grafts.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on June 12, 2013, 12:00:10 PM
Unlimited loyal animal followers who can cause vile damage? Sure.

Touch of Hate (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/touch-hate--3599/)

So it costs Violate Spell feat, which is a good decent feat anyway if you've got Spell Focus Evil, Evil domain and like Vile damage, etc.

This then allows you to "Once per tenday" turn an animal into a Beast of Bane. This happens "instantaneously" on a failed save and the beast "follows your commands."

The limit is HD equal or less than your cleric level. Monsters with more HD are immune.

Animals, poor will saves. Dire Animals, okay will saves... but generally nothing to write home about. You can steal a ranger's pet or a druids companion and turn it against them...but it uses the player's will save with it's own modifier.

So... Dire Animals and Ripping Loving Creatures from their masters... that's pretty good devious and enjoyable, but we also get to corrupt and buff them.

Add the Beast of Bane Template which is the Beast of Xvim Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/beastxvim.shtml) (Monsters of Faerun, pg 85) but with 1 minor (yet awesome) change. note: The one I've found is 3.0 I don't think there's an updated version... if there is let me know.

In summary:
+1 HD - which increases saves/BaB/skills as appropriate.
Physical Attacks: Damage die increases.
Special Attacks: Damage die increases.
Frightful Presence (Ex): Lasts 5D6 rounds.
Feed (Su): Advance like a Barghest.
Smite Good (Su): 1/day but Vile damage :)
Special Qualities: Immune to Fear, Poison, Darkvision 60ft. Also gains DR based on HD... the DR is /+1 so I guess it'd just be DR 5 or 10 /magic.
Abilities: Int is raised to 3 if lower, +4 Charisma.
Alignment: changes to Lawful Evil.

If the HD increases enough to give an extra feat, improved natural attack would stack with the damage die increase.

There's no duration for created creatures, no expiry, no limit to how many you can have... It's a save or die, based on your strong stat, but instead of dying, you turn into a bigger, stronger ally.

Just strikes me as abusable... I mean, advance them by having them eat their kills... deal vile damage... increase damage die...

The best trick I could think of would be if the frightful presences of multiple beasts are allowed to stack. That'd be an instant win for a lot of encounters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 12, 2013, 01:04:05 PM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
The problem I see with that is the "near" clause. While they may actually get the feat by the literal reading, we don't know what level they actually get them. For all we know they could get all the feats at level 1000 because that is near to the level that spellcasters get them when looked at from a perspective broad enough perspective.

Well, judging by the (I guess now "example") feats on the table, at-the-level. you meat the CL requirements. Every feat is gained at the level you meet its minimum CL (thanks to Wand being errata'd), and if your DM doesn't throw a book at you for pointing this out, that's the most likely level you'd pick them up.

Now, here's a question: do you bypass other requirements for the feat? For example, Craft Fiendish Graft requires you to be a fiend.
Partial ninja

it doesn't say you bypass the prerequisites besides the inability to cast arcane or divine spells, so you wouldn't.

the "near" would apply to the listed feats that aren't at the CL required, like Brew Potion (1 level early).

also, you only get feats that have a CL prereq (you don't get epic item creation feats, because they don't have a CL)


but do you keep getting the feats at that level if you're not taking artificer levels?
Trying to pretend near only applies to certain things, means something specific, or that things you claim as examples from the table actually are, doesn't actually change what it means by RAW (specifically the complete ambiguity). At this point both of you seem to be trying to argue a RAI meaning for the near clause so that rest of your RAW trick actually works.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 01:16:54 PM
But how else do you determine when you get all the rest of the item creation feats? Your definition of 'near' is different than mine which is different from their list in the ability.

notice how ~1/2 the feats listed are at a different CL than the min?

the only logical way is to just use the listed CL, otherwise everyone would want something different.

also, the reason I think we need to exclude the ones w/o CL prereqs is because otherwise it would depend on too many factors to determine the level it is granted.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 12, 2013, 01:25:56 PM
Quote from: Artificer: bonus feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat as a bonus feat at or near the level at which it becomes available to spellcasters.

He gets Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level, Brew Potion at 2nd level, Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level, Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th level, Craft Wand at 7th level, Craft Rod at 9th level, Craft Staff at 12th level, and Forge Ring at 14th level.

So, we have two parts here. The first part and the second. Now, if we look at this section as a whole. RAI clearly indicates that the intent of the first part is fluff text. The meat of this is that you get scribe scroll, brew potion, blah blah blah. The intent was never to give you every creation feat ever, or they would have listed them all.

But by RAW, what we have here is an OR. At OR near. Not, at AND near. So, from a RAW point of view, the way it reads is, you get every item creation feat when you meet either of the conditions. In this case, since we cannot define "near" we can only meet the criteria of "at" and therefore, as it is read, you get every item creation feat at the level that it becomes available for other spellcasters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 12, 2013, 01:44:40 PM
But how else do you determine when you get all the rest of the item creation feats? Your definition of 'near' is different than mine which is different from their list in the ability.

notice how ~1/2 the feats listed are at a different CL than the min?

the only logical way is to just use the listed CL, otherwise everyone would want something different.

also, the reason I think we need to exclude the ones w/o CL prereqs is because otherwise it would depend on too many factors to determine the level it is granted.
My point was you can't if you choose a RAW reading. "The only logical way" is not to bring RAI into a discussion that is trying to make a RAW trick work.

Quote from: Artificer: bonus feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat as a bonus feat at or near the level at which it becomes available to spellcasters.

He gets Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level, Brew Potion at 2nd level, Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level, Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th level, Craft Wand at 7th level, Craft Rod at 9th level, Craft Staff at 12th level, and Forge Ring at 14th level.

So, we have two parts here. The first part and the second. Now, if we look at this section as a whole. RAI clearly indicates that the intent of the first part is fluff text. The meat of this is that you get scribe scroll, brew potion, blah blah blah. The intent was never to give you every creation feat ever, or they would have listed them all.

But by RAW, what we have here is an OR. At OR near. Not, at AND near. So, from a RAW point of view, the way it reads is, you get every item creation feat when you meet either of the conditions. In this case, since we cannot define "near" we can only meet the criteria of "at" and therefore, as it is read, you get every item creation feat at the level that it becomes available for other spellcasters.
It isn't a matter of if you meet one of the requirements you get it, since they aren't worded as requirements. The sentence is a descriptive sentence saying when you get the feats and as a result of the "or" in this context it is indicating which time you get each feat at is undefined.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 12, 2013, 02:14:32 PM
It isn't a matter of if you meet one of the requirements you get it, since they aren't worded as requirements. The sentence is a descriptive sentence saying when you get the feats and as a result of the "or" in this context it is indicating which time you get each feat at is undefined.

I used to get paid vast sums of money to find loop holes in contracts. Trust me. It's a requirement for qualification.

You get X when you meet requirement A or B.

You get any given item creation feat when you are:
(A) "at" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it,
OR
(B) "near" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it.

We cannot define B. We can only define A. Therefore, you get it whenever you qualify for A. Nobody will ever get an item creation feat from qualification B.

Just because we cannot define B is besides the point. From a RAW point of view, we do not care if one can actually ever meet said requirements, just that the requirements exist. RAW has nothing to do with common sense. Everyone is getting bogged down in trying to figure out what "near" means when "near" is only one of two qualifications for defining when we get any given item creation feat.


A real world example:

When I used to work for fleet credit card services, we don't like charging off credit cards. It looked bad to our stock holders. Well, there was a program where the federal government allowed accounts less then 6 months past due to be hand-waived and brought "current" if they met 3 criteria. On the books, it was like printing money. But, the process was very difficult. The three criteria were difficult to reach.

However, I did something nobody else did. I actually read the original law. On one page, there was a typo. An "OR" instead of an "AND". The typo was on the original law passed by congress. That meant we only had to meet ONE criteria. I ran it by the lawyers and they were thrilled. Nobody had ever noticed the typo before. (It's a gift I have. Flaws just jump out at me, even if it's in a thousand page document.)

In one month I managed to create 743,000 dollars out of thin air. True, the money only existed for 30 to 65 days, but it didn't matter. I still got a bonus check of over six grand for my imaginary money. We got to tell the stock holders that we collected the money. Then I got my own department where all we did was create a rolling amount of imaginary money on the books. At any given time we created somewhere between 2 to 5 million dollars out of smoke and mirrors. All. Perfectly. Legal.

Then they over inflated the stock price and sold the company, firing everyone, including me. Over 6,000 people lost their jobs because of the word "or". Well, that and investing in Argentina right before the bank collapse. And Enron. And K-mart before the bankruptcy restructuring... Fleet Bank had some stupid people running it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 12, 2013, 02:33:52 PM
But how else do you determine when you get all the rest of the item creation feats? Your definition of 'near' is different than mine which is different from their list in the ability.

notice how ~1/2 the feats listed are at a different CL than the min?

the only logical way is to just use the listed CL, otherwise everyone would want something different.

also, the reason I think we need to exclude the ones w/o CL prereqs is because otherwise it would depend on too many factors to determine the level it is granted.
My point was you can't if you choose a RAW reading. "The only logical way" is not to bring RAI into a discussion that is trying to make a RAW trick work.

And my point is that if your DM allows it in the first place you're going to get the feats as soon as you meet the minimum CL. Yes, he could rule that "near" means at CL 1000. But then he's basically just saying, "No, that's stupid and abusive and you can't have it."
If your DM is allowing this reading to begin with, the reading that's going to get used is "at".
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 12, 2013, 02:43:03 PM
But how else do you determine when you get all the rest of the item creation feats? Your definition of 'near' is different than mine which is different from their list in the ability.

notice how ~1/2 the feats listed are at a different CL than the min?

the only logical way is to just use the listed CL, otherwise everyone would want something different.

also, the reason I think we need to exclude the ones w/o CL prereqs is because otherwise it would depend on too many factors to determine the level it is granted.
My point was you can't if you choose a RAW reading. "The only logical way" is not to bring RAI into a discussion that is trying to make a RAW trick work.

And my point is that if your DM allows it in the first place you're going to get the feats as soon as you meet the minimum CL. Yes, he could rule that "near" means at CL 1000. But then he's basically just saying, "No, that's stupid and abusive and you can't have it."
If your DM is allowing this reading to begin with, the reading that's going to get used is "at".
So what you saying is you can't really think of an argument so Theoretical DM. Stop trying to bring RAI into an argument about RAW.

It isn't a matter of if you meet one of the requirements you get it, since they aren't worded as requirements. The sentence is a descriptive sentence saying when you get the feats and as a result of the "or" in this context it is indicating which time you get each feat at is undefined.

I used to get paid vast sums of money to find loop holes in contracts. Trust me. It's a requirement for qualification.

You get X when you meet requirement A or B.

You get any given item creation feat when you are:
(A) "at" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it,
OR
(B) "near" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it.

We cannot define B. We can only define A. Therefore, you get it whenever you qualify for A. Nobody will ever get an item creation feat from qualification B.

Just because we cannot define B is besides the point. From a RAW point of view, we do not care if one can actually ever meet said requirements, just that the requirements exist. RAW has nothing to do with common sense. Everyone is getting bogged down in trying to figure out what "near" means when "near" is only one of two qualifications for defining when we get any given item creation feat.


A real world example:

When I used to work for fleet credit card services, we don't like charging off credit cards. It looked bad to our stock holders. Well, there was a program where the federal government allowed accounts less then 6 months past due to be hand-waived and brought "current" if they met 3 criteria. On the books, it was like printing money. But, the process was very difficult. The three criteria were difficult to reach.

However, I did something nobody else did. I actually read the original law. On one page, there was a typo. An "OR" instead of an "AND". The typo was on the original law passed by congress. That meant we only had to meet ONE criteria. I ran it by the lawyers and they were thrilled. Nobody had ever noticed the typo before. (It's a gift I have. Flaws just jump out at me, even if it's in a thousand page document.)

In one month I managed to create 743,000 dollars out of thin air. True, the money only existed for 30 to 65 days, but it didn't matter. I still got a bonus check of over six grand for my imaginary money. We got to tell the stock holders that we collected the money. Then I got my own department where all we did was create a rolling amount of imaginary money on the books. At any given time we created somewhere between 2 to 5 million dollars out of smoke and mirrors. All. Perfectly. Legal.

Then they over inflated the stock price and sold the company, firing everyone, including me. Over 6,000 people lost their jobs because of the word "or". Well, that and investing in Argentina right before the bank collapse. And Enron. And K-mart before the bankruptcy restructuring... Fleet Bank had some stupid people running it.
I need to do more thinking (and looking up the specifics of each word) to try to determine if you are indeed right but for now I'll concede that you are likely right.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 12, 2013, 03:01:29 PM
And my point is that if your DM allows it in the first place you're going to get the feats as soon as you meet the minimum CL. Yes, he could rule that "near" means at CL 1000. But then he's basically just saying, "No, that's stupid and abusive and you can't have it."
If your DM is allowing this reading to begin with, the reading that's going to get used is "at".
So what you saying is you can't really think of an argument so Theoretical DM. Stop trying to bring RAI into an argument about RAW.

More that I don't think there needs to be an argument because the +1000 CL interpretation doesn't make sense by any definition of "near" used in this context.
This is the sort of thing a DM is going to throw out the window or, in an intentionally high-power game, accept at face value.
I'm not making a RAW argument, and never stated that I was. I'm making a RAI argument in absence of a precise RAW definition of the phrase "or near".
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 05:31:22 PM
The option A option B seems to hit right imho
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 12, 2013, 06:31:50 PM
From [Magic of Faerun], the spectral dagger is a 20kgp item that lets you use chill touch at will, and can be wielded as if it were a dagger (including iterative attacks). Fun for daggerspell mages, daggerspell shapers and invisible blades. It can't be thrown though, since the blade disappears when it leaves your hand.
The Spectral Dagger was included in the Magic Item Compendium, with a reduced cost of 6,400 gp.  Great for skirmishers and sneak attackers to always have a touch attack handy.  Doesn't really work well against undead, but then you were unlikely to be sneak attacking them anyways (ACF's and special feats aside).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 12, 2013, 06:38:56 PM
Unlimited loyal animal followers who can cause vile damage? Sure.

Touch of Hate (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/touch-hate--3599/)

So it costs Violate Spell feat, which is a good decent feat anyway if you've got Spell Focus Evil, Evil domain and like Vile damage, etc.

This then allows you to "Once per tenday" turn an animal into a Beast of Bane. This happens "instantaneously" on a failed save and the beast "follows your commands."

The limit is HD equal or less than your cleric level. Monsters with more HD are immune.

Animals, poor will saves. Dire Animals, okay will saves... but generally nothing to write home about. You can steal a ranger's pet or a druids companion and turn it against them...but it uses the player's will save with it's own modifier.

So... Dire Animals and Ripping Loving Creatures from their masters... that's pretty good devious and enjoyable, but we also get to corrupt and buff them.

Add the Beast of Bane Template which is the Beast of Xvim Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/beastxvim.shtml) (Monsters of Faerun, pg 85) but with 1 minor (yet awesome) change. note: The one I've found is 3.0 I don't think there's an updated version... if there is let me know.

In summary:
+1 HD - which increases saves/BaB/skills as appropriate.
Physical Attacks: Damage die increases.
Special Attacks: Damage die increases.
Frightful Presence (Ex): Lasts 5D6 rounds.
Feed (Su): Advance like a Barghest.
Smite Good (Su): 1/day but Vile damage :)
Special Qualities: Immune to Fear, Poison, Darkvision 60ft. Also gains DR based on HD... the DR is /+1 so I guess it'd just be DR 5 or 10 /magic.
Abilities: Int is raised to 3 if lower, +4 Charisma.
Alignment: changes to Lawful Evil.

If the HD increases enough to give an extra feat, improved natural attack would stack with the damage die increase.

There's no duration for created creatures, no expiry, no limit to how many you can have... It's a save or die, based on your strong stat, but instead of dying, you turn into a bigger, stronger ally.

Just strikes me as abusable... I mean, advance them by having them eat their kills... deal vile damage... increase damage die...

The best trick I could think of would be if the frightful presences of multiple beasts are allowed to stack. That'd be an instant win for a lot of encounters.

Beast of Xvim was updated as Beast of Bane in.... Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave.  It no longer gets the bonus +1 HD, but will still advance by eating things.  I don't recall it being called out as doing vile damage, but could be mistaken.  Edit: I see now that the vile damage comes from the feat.

Also, in the Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement, it has the updated DR for Beast of Xvim.  IIRC, its three tiers of DR become DR 5/Magic, DR 5/Silver, and DR 10/Silver and Magic.  Beast of Bane probably lists a similar type of DR, but I am away from my books at the moment.

Until I get to my books, this post (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9015.msg144538#msg144538) notes a few of the differences between the BoX and BoB templates.

I basically homebrewed this ability onto a Barghest (without knowing of this feat), as the handwaived method of introducing Beasts of Xvim into my campaign world.  I put my 5th level gestalt PC's up against some Beast of Xvim Dire Wolves (IIRC, no more than one at a time, except perhaps at the climax).  They thought the 5d6 duration of the frightful presence was ... unfair.
(Do note that the Frightful Presence ability in the SRD/MM has no differentiation by HD; only that those with fewer HD than the creature with the Frightful Presence ability are affected.  This is unlike True Dragons, whose frightful presence ability only panics those of 4 HD or less, and merely causes others to become shaken.  The Beast of Xvim template specifies it causes Fright to all, which is almost as bad as being panicked.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 12, 2013, 06:47:55 PM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

the heckling using Bluff in Races of Stone is confusing, it wants your foe to make a Perform check vs. your Bluff check, but then takes a penalty based on how much your Bluff beats their Concentration check?!?
(I don't have the errata available on my phone to see if this is fixed)
The problem I see with that is the "near" clause. While they may actually get the feat by the literal reading, we don't know what level they actually get them. For all we know they could get all the feats at level 1000 because that is near to the level that spellcasters get them when looked at from a perspective broad enough perspective.

 ;) ... Is that "or" an XOR ?
Yeah that's ridiculous ; but don't the designers
assume Artificers will get to level 1000 anyway ?

 :( ... I bet the Psi-Arty doesn't get this juicy wording.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 12, 2013, 06:53:55 PM
Unlimited loyal animal followers who can cause vile damage? Sure.
Touch of Hate (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/touch-hate--3599/)
Beast of Xvim was updated as Beast of Bane in.... Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave.
Also, in the Player's Guide to Faerun web enhancement, it has the updated DR for Beast of Xvim. 

So the Druid does it's version of diplomancing to get the animal to go along.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 07:08:15 PM
Switch minds w the Beast of Bane for free advancement. Even temporary switching is HUGELY scary
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 12, 2013, 09:04:01 PM
If you're attempting to activate a magic device, a DC 40 UMD check will let you emulate a specific individual (Dragon # 329, page 67).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 12, 2013, 09:13:32 PM
Improved Sigil (Krau)...

Its usually used for early entry. However, it has a nice extra interaction with Earth Spell.

Namely, if you prep one of the spells you chose in a slot 1 level higher than normal, it counts as if it were 3 levels higher (+1 from Earth Spell, +1 from Improved Sigil (Krau)).

Combine with Sanctum Spell if, you know, you are inside your Sanctum, and enjoy the fact that your spell level increase is 3 + number of levels higher the slot you use for prepping!

Can you say Shadow Miracles at 13th level without cheese? Well, without the bootstrapping cheese that requires a lenient DM, that is.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 12, 2013, 09:28:36 PM
Immoth (CR 9 creature, MM2 pg. 127): "Ice Runes (Sp): "Any spell an immoth has prepared can be inscribed on an ice nugget. The creature can trigger the spell contained in such an ice rune as a free action. An ice rune remains magical until triggered by the immoth. Each immoth has at least 3d4+12 ice runes embedded on its body."

So it can cast up to 24 spells, all as free actions, in the FIRST ROUND.


This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a) web article with brownie stats:

(click to show/hide)

The color spray spell is actually better than most people think (and most people think it's pretty damn good) you see on page 173 of the player's handbook where they describe the sub-schools of magic under pattern you can see:
Quote
Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
This means that targets outside of the area of color spray are still affected by it if they can see the effects. This rule also applies to Hypnotic Pattern, Rainbow Pattern, and Scintillating Pattern.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 10:11:10 PM
The brownie looks cool

great catch on the pattern subschool
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 12, 2013, 10:19:09 PM
Not actually me. It was cp'd from a thread on giantitp. I was super pleased reading it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 12, 2013, 11:43:15 PM
Glad you brought it over here. The boggard is really.... strange

*bump*
Quote
but do you keep getting the feats at that level if you're not taking artificer levels?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 13, 2013, 01:04:23 AM
And my point is that if your DM allows it in the first place you're going to get the feats as soon as you meet the minimum CL. Yes, he could rule that "near" means at CL 1000. But then he's basically just saying, "No, that's stupid and abusive and you can't have it."
If your DM is allowing this reading to begin with, the reading that's going to get used is "at".
So what you saying is you can't really think of an argument so Theoretical DM. Stop trying to bring RAI into an argument about RAW.

More that I don't think there needs to be an argument because the +1000 CL interpretation doesn't make sense by any definition of "near" used in this context.
This is the sort of thing a DM is going to throw out the window or, in an intentionally high-power game, accept at face value.
I'm not making a RAW argument, and never stated that I was. I'm making a RAI argument in absence of a precise RAW definition of the phrase "or near".
Except when discussing things that are blatantly abusing RAW, if you resort to RAI to make it work instead of admitting you don't know how to do so, you look extremely immature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 13, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
Add the Beast of Bane Template which is the Beast of Xvim Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/beastxvim.shtml) (Monsters of Faerun, pg 85) but with 1 minor (yet awesome) change. note: The one I've found is 3.0 I don't think there's an updated version... if there is let me know.

In summary:
+1 HD - which increases saves/BaB/skills as appropriate.
Physical Attacks: Damage die increases.
Special Attacks: Damage die increases.
Frightful Presence (Ex): Lasts 5D6 rounds.
Feed (Su): Advance like a Barghest.
Smite Good (Su): 1/day but Vile damage :)
Special Qualities: Immune to Fear, Poison, Darkvision 60ft. Also gains DR based on HD... the DR is /+1 so I guess it'd just be DR 5 or 10 /magic.
Abilities: Int is raised to 3 if lower, +4 Charisma.
Alignment: changes to Lawful Evil.

Update on this.  The book for the updated Beast of Bane is actually Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land.
It doesn't automatically get +1 HD when adding the template, but can gain HD from feeding.
Its DR tiers become: DR 5/Magic, DR 10/Silver, DR 10/Magic and Silver
Unlike the Beast of Xvim template, its Frightful Presence ability does not state what kind of fear is inflicted on those who fail the save.

The Frightful Presence ability isn't helpful, stating only:
Quote
Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken.
So, the best option is to just treat it like Beast of Xvim, and have foes become Frightened.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on June 13, 2013, 11:49:34 AM
The Frightful Presence ability isn't helpful, stating only:
Quote
Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken.
So, the best option is to just treat it like Beast of Xvim, and have foes become Frightened.

Maybe Shaken on a successful save was the intent?

Would those fear effects overlap? Like... lets say you're frightened by a beast of bane bear, then would it escalate to panicked from a beast of bane wolf, then escalate to cowering from a beast of bane tiger?
Assuming failed saves, obviously.

I know effects from the same source don't stack, and they're all coming from a Beast of bane's frightful presence...but it is a different presence each time.

If you ruled it that it was frightened on failed save and shaken on a successful save and they escalated, you could perch 4 Beast of Bane 1HD Bunnies on your shoulders, and auto-panic anyone you came within 30ft of.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 13, 2013, 12:54:59 PM
The Frightful Presence ability isn't helpful, stating only:
Quote
Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken.
So, the best option is to just treat it like Beast of Xvim, and have foes become Frightened.

Maybe Shaken on a successful save was the intent?

Would those fear effects overlap? Like... lets say you're frightened by a beast of bane bear, then would it escalate to panicked from a beast of bane wolf, then escalate to cowering from a beast of bane tiger?
Assuming failed saves, obviously.

I know effects from the same source don't stack, and they're all coming from a Beast of bane's frightful presence...but it is a different presence each time.

If you ruled it that it was frightened on failed save and shaken on a successful save and they escalated, you could perch 4 Beast of Bane 1HD Bunnies on your shoulders, and auto-panic anyone you came within 30ft of.
For that reason, if not just taking the 3.0 BoX and going with Frightened on a failed save and nothing on a successful save, I would likely rule that you are frightened on a failed save, shaken on a successful save, and count the ability as the same source, so no stacking no matter the number of Beasts that were present.

Probably not RAW, but it makes it playable, and not crazy stupid powerful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on June 13, 2013, 12:59:46 PM
The Frightful Presence ability isn't helpful, stating only:
Quote
Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken.
So, the best option is to just treat it like Beast of Xvim, and have foes become Frightened.

Maybe Shaken on a successful save was the intent?

Doubtful. The text in question is a straight copy of part of the generic Frightful Presence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#frightfulPresence) ability's description, which is equally vague because specific instances of the ability are supposed to define it. It doesn't help that there are so few instances of the ability to even make a precedent. However, all instances in the SRD (Tarrasque, True Dragons, Vermiurge, from the Form of Doom power, the salient divine ability, the undefined Dragon Totem Barbarian that presumably is supposed to function like a true dragon's frightful presence, and the Drakeblade Legendary Weapon) have no effect on a successful save and cause either shaken or panicked (for <= 4 HD for true dragons and Drakeblade, for creatures the deity attacks for deities).
Title: Stump Knife
Post by: Captnq on June 13, 2013, 01:11:34 PM
(click to show/hide)

If you enjoy critical activated WSA, this one is for you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on June 13, 2013, 01:26:25 PM
It's still only 15-20 threat range with Keen or Imp. Crit. due to D&D multiplication, same as any 18-20 threat range weapon. Maybe if you found some effects that add to a threat range before multiplication, the x3 multiplier would eke out a bit more than the usual x2.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 13, 2013, 01:33:58 PM
(unchanged in the 3.5 oa update in dragon 318) weapon master or the (updated to 3.5 in mind's eye article) psionic weapon master?

they both increase the multiplier a few times a day starting at 2, and if they have the imp crit feat before 7, then they add an additional +2 to the threat range.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Arz on June 13, 2013, 03:31:59 PM
Stumped Combo
Einhander + Stump Knife = The only non-natural weapon you can combine with this feat because you are handy-capable.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 13, 2013, 07:31:06 PM
Immoth (CR 9 creature, MM2 pg. 127): "Ice Runes (Sp): "Any spell an immoth has prepared can be inscribed on an ice nugget. The creature can trigger the spell contained in such an ice rune as a free action. An ice rune remains magical until triggered by the immoth. Each immoth has at least 3d4+12 ice runes embedded on its body."

So it can cast up to 24 spells, all as free actions, in the FIRST ROUND.

Worthy of necro-ing.  Campaign Smasher.
iirc - this is the Immoth Break by Soluphobe.
Which has been lost to the wotc changeovers.

There's a trick to the Prepared vs. Sorc casting something.
Like with just one feat, and it's Beholder Mage Lite (or wtf).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 13, 2013, 11:19:43 PM
A Nimblewight Disciple of Dispater with keen stump knife fiendish grafts can threaten on a 4-20/x2 (15-20 to 10-20 to 4-20). Its additional attacks are -2-20/x2 (nat1 still fails)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on June 13, 2013, 11:26:33 PM
... But Keen specifically states it doesn't stack with any other effect that expands a critical threat range ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 13, 2013, 11:59:08 PM
Immoth (CR 9 creature, MM2 pg. 127): "Ice Runes (Sp): "Any spell an immoth has prepared can be inscribed on an ice nugget. The creature can trigger the spell contained in such an ice rune as a free action. An ice rune remains magical until triggered by the immoth. Each immoth has at least 3d4+12 ice runes embedded on its body."

So it can cast up to 24 spells, all as free actions, in the FIRST ROUND.

Worthy of necro-ing.  Campaign Smasher.
iirc - this is the Immoth Break by Soluphobe.
Which has been lost to the wotc changeovers.

There's a trick to the Prepared vs. Sorc casting something.
Like with just one feat, and it's Beholder Mage Lite (or wtf).

Can anyone remember this trick?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 14, 2013, 12:04:37 AM
Probably involves the Arcane Preparation feat (CA).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 14, 2013, 01:10:30 AM
... But Keen specifically states it doesn't stack with any other effect that expands a critical threat range ...

well then I guess you're stuck w 10-20 and 4-20 :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 14, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Immoth (CR 9 creature, MM2 pg. 127): "Ice Runes (Sp): "Any spell an immoth has prepared can be inscribed on an ice nugget. The creature can trigger the spell contained in such an ice rune as a free action. An ice rune remains magical until triggered by the immoth. Each immoth has at least 3d4+12 ice runes embedded on its body."

So it can cast up to 24 spells, all as free actions, in the FIRST ROUND.

Worthy of necro-ing.  Campaign Smasher.
iirc - this is the Immoth Break by Soluphobe.
Which has been lost to the wotc changeovers.

There's a trick to the Prepared vs. Sorc casting something.
Like with just one feat, and it's Beholder Mage Lite (or wtf).

Can anyone remember this trick?

isn't that the feat that allows spontaneous casters to prepare spells?



... But Keen specifically states it doesn't stack with any other effect that expands a critical threat range ...

well then I guess you're stuck w 10-20 and 4-20 :P

you should be able to add weapon master or psi weapon master to increase that even more.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 14, 2013, 11:02:46 AM
Immoth (CR 9 creature, MM2 pg. 127): "Ice Runes (Sp): "Any spell an immoth has prepared can be inscribed on an ice nugget. The creature can trigger the spell contained in such an ice rune as a free action. An ice rune remains magical until triggered by the immoth. Each immoth has at least 3d4+12 ice runes embedded on its body."

So it can cast up to 24 spells, all as free actions, in the FIRST ROUND.

Worthy of necro-ing.  Campaign Smasher.
iirc - this is the Immoth Break by Soluphobe.
Which has been lost to the wotc changeovers.

There's a trick to the Prepared vs. Sorc casting something.
Like with just one feat, and it's Beholder Mage Lite (or wtf).

Can anyone remember this trick?

isn't that the feat that allows spontaneous casters to prepare spells?

*Cough*

Probably involves the Arcane Preparation feat (CA).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 14, 2013, 11:44:54 AM
Quote
Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to prepare spells you know. (Usually, you do this in order to apply a metamagic feat to the spell.) Thereafter, you can cast that spell as a standard action even if you apply a metamagic feat to the spell as you cast it. Preparing a spell uses a slot of the appropriate level. Once the spell is prepared, you can't use that spell slot for anything else until you cast the prepared spell.

But then you couldn't use the spells in your runes as a free action...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on June 14, 2013, 11:46:19 AM
Quote
Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to prepare spells you know. (Usually, you do this in order to apply a metamagic feat to the spell.) Thereafter, you can cast that spell as a standard action even if you apply a metamagic feat to the spell as you cast it. Preparing a spell uses a slot of the appropriate level. Once the spell is prepared, you can't use that spell slot for anything else until you cast the prepared spell.

But then you couldn't use the spells in your runes as a free action...
Wait a second... can you cast longer-casting-time spells as a standard action with this feat?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on June 14, 2013, 11:58:16 AM
The version in my copy of Complete Arcane doesn't have anything about casting it as a standard action.  Too bad.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TravelLog on June 14, 2013, 12:01:47 PM
Ah. That one was PG to Faerun. This is Complete Arcane:

Quote
Each day, you can use one or more of your spell slots to prepare spells you know, usually for the purpose of applying a metamagic feat to the spell--but without an increase in its casting time. Preparing a spell uses a spell slot of the appropriate level, and once prepared, that slot can't be used for anything else until the prepared spell is cast.

And you know what's horrendous? The Immoth puts spells into their ice runes regardless of level, so you can stack any and all metamagic feats, or just toss in as many high levels spells as desired.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 14, 2013, 12:16:33 PM

*Cough*


oh yeah, you kinda said that already. and i even read that. gah.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 14, 2013, 01:36:58 PM

*Cough*


oh yeah, you kinda said that already. and i even read that. gah.
;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 15, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
 :) yeah that's the one.

So the standard Immoth can't do this, but when
he was hangin' with his boyz way back when,
they talked each other into "doing it" (the feat).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 15, 2013, 06:35:25 PM
Radiant creature (Dragon 321, p74) is a +3 LA template that can be applied to almost any player race.  Warforged, neraph, hairy spider, and glimmerfolk are the noteworthy exceptions.  (It can be applied to any aberration, animal, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, or monstrous humanoid.) 

As a radiant creature, you cannot be blinded, dazed, dazzled, or stunned.  With the exception of dazzled, those are pretty nasty status conditions.  Dazed is incredibly hard to get immunity to. 

You gain fast healing 2 as long as you're exposed to a light source other than yourself.  (Oh, you glow, by the way.)  You can just get continual flame cast on some of your stuff.  You're going to be a walking beacon anyway. 

You gain some nice spell-like abilities based on your hit dice.  These are, in the order you gain them: color spray 3/day, blur 3/day, mirror image 1/day, searing light 1/day, freedom of movement 1/day, rainbow pattern 1/day, prismatic spray 1/day, repulsion 1/day, scintillating pattern 1/day, and prismatic sphere 1/day.  As usual, the magic in the blood feat (Player's Guide to Faerun, p40) should work to upgrade those all to 3/day. 

The ability adjustments are +4 dexterity and +6 charisma.  It's a shame sorcerer would suffer so much from the level adjustment.  At the very least, the spell-like abilities from the template get a boost to save DC. 

You become a native outsider, giving you immunity to certain spells, martial weapon proficiency, and darkvision. 

You gain a supernatural ability called rainbow aura, which you should probably get rid of by paying someone to cast ability rip (Serpent Kingdoms, p155).  It dazzles creatures within 30 feet that fail a will save.  That would be a lot of die rolling for a small benefit even if you could exclude your allies.  Ability rip should also remove the -8 racial penalty on hide checks, since it's noted as being a result of rainbow aura. 

You gain DR/magic, which might conceivably prevent a bit of damage at some point.  You also gain a +4 racial bonus on spot checks. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 15, 2013, 06:40:54 PM
:D :D

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.
This is the most wonderful case of text trumps table I've seen since Rainbow Servant.
Except that it is basically fluff, just like how the barbarian is supposed to be the best dps fighter or whatever. Even if it weren't see below. You can of course head into TO by purposely choosing the most abusive interpretation while ignoring lower-powered once, if you'd like.

I used to get paid vast sums of money to find loop holes in contracts. Trust me. It's a requirement for qualification.

You get X when you meet requirement A or B.

You get any given item creation feat when you are:
(A) "at" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it,
OR
(B) "near" the level that any spellcaster would qualify for it.

We cannot define B. We can only define A. Therefore, you get it whenever you qualify for A. Nobody will ever get an item creation feat from qualification B.
The last sentence. So exactly. You only get the ones listed in the chart and no others

Also, you're RL example seemed like Karma and why to not be LE.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 15, 2013, 11:34:39 PM
Also, you're RL example seemed like Karma and why to not be LE.

On the surface, it would seem I'm Karma's bitch. I've had a life chock full of strange event.
Title: Sprayer
Post by: Captnq on June 16, 2013, 12:53:57 AM
SPRAYER
(click to show/hide)
Editor: Read it. Any fluid, from water-like to oil-like, can be poured in and then sprayed out into a 10'x5' cloud. Anything. True, it doesn't react well to acid. Well, that's what glassteel is for. Anyways, who cares if it eats the container away, if the acid does area effect damage? Got a friend who's suffering from the "Caught on fire" condition? A "dense" cloud of water should qualify for the condition to put him out. Now, what does that mean about grenade-like weapons?
Editor (Splash Weapons): Well, since this weapon is made specifically to fill up two squares and two squares only with a dense cloud, I’d say that it does full damage to both squares, but does not splash out to any other squares. So you got a trade off. If you throw the flask of a given grenade like effect, it can go out to five times your range, which is typically in 10 foot increments. Then it affects the target you hit, and 5 feet around the point of impact. Or you can use a sprayer to only go out 10 feet, never miss, but always have full effect in those two squares. Sounds like a fair trade off to me. Concentration in exchange for range and area of effect.
Editor (Alchemist’s Spark): It normally wouldn’t work, but you could make it with two chambers that it sprays from at the same time. 1d8 electrical in two squares, baby!
Editor (Oils and Potions): Why limit ourselves to just alchemy items? Sure, Alchemy has all the fun stuff, but what about magic potions? True, only one target can take advantage of a potion, but what would happen if you loaded one into a sprayer and sprayed your ally? The first person to inhale should get the effect. Boo-yah! Healing with potion at 10 feet! If you got a problem with that, make it the Oil version of the potion and tighten up the nozzle. Make oil of Grease spell and spray your enemies, that are ten feet in front of you. So MANY possibilities with this one. However, to be fair, as a DM, I would only have a sprayed “Potion of” or “Oil Of” something effect the first target. So if two people are standing in a line, the first one gets hit and takes the full effect of the sprayed substance.
Editor (Gaseous Form): Here’s a twisted use. Does your enemy have skin? Oil of gaseous form and a oil of bestow curse combined into a sprayer. Your target makes a saving throw or turns into gaseous form that lasts the full duration of the gaseous form spell against their will. Now that’s a weapon that’ll scare the crap out of your players. “OMG, you disintegrated him?”
Editor (Sticky): There are a number of alchemy items I’d like to spray, but the item descriptions state that they are sticky. I’d be a kind DM and allow a +10 to the alchemy DC to craft the substance so you could load it into a sprayer, but that’s just me. Most of the time, you’d be better off just throwing the item. The only advantage of the sprayer is, if you are within 10 feet, it doesn’t miss.
Editor (Windy): On the wind table, when you get to strong winds (21-30 mph) candles are automatically put out. This is one step below the power of a gust of wind spell. I would rule, as a DM, that in strong winds, any use of a sprayer is useless, as the cloud disperses before it can have any effect.
Editor (Invisible targets): Alas, it only works for an instant, but should narrow down the square he’s in, showing a brief outline of the invisible person should allow you to reduce your miss chance to partial concealment. Although someone else will have to take advantage of it, or you’ll have to use this in your off hand and take a two weapon fighting penalty. Adding the WSA revealing should outline them with faerie fire. Or just use liquid light, watch them glow for the next 1d4 hours.
Editor (Screaming Flask): The screaming flask comes in a hat. Yes, you read that right, it’s in your hat. You activate it and it shoots out of your hat in a cone. Personally, I’d allow someone to modify it to work in a sprayer, so you’d spray in a 15 foot cone. Then you could add WSA screaming or any of the other Sonic based WSAs for a synergistic effect. Frankly, it’s a cool alchemy item, but it’s in your hat. Seriously? You activate it as close to your ears as possible? A sonic attack? Really? “Och! It’s so stimulating being your hat!” - The Hat, Labyrinth
Editor (Weaponize): Is it a weapon? Well, considering I can fire it at someone, and there are many examples of ranged weapons that fire liquids and powders at people, I have to say a resounding, YES. What’s that leave us? Well, there is no to hit roll, so we can’t have any WSA that activates on a to hit. That leaves out Exit Wound fun. Distance by RAW can’t double the length to 20 feet, but that’s a DM call. Personally, if you are going to spend a whole +1 bonus on your spray can, you should be able to double the range. I’d personally BEG my DM to allow quick loading. True, that’s only for crossbows, and this item doesn’t have a load speed. It’s having 100 “slots” of storage space that makes me want quick loading. Bane (plants) and defoliator are an excellent combo. Binding would just be funny. Burning can set things on fire, which just makes sense with this sort of thing. All the energy damage WSAs would fit, (Corrosive, flaming, frost, etc, etc, etc…) and do damage to anything in both squares. Personally, I think Air Elemental Power would be funny. Spray out an elemental. SQUIRT!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 16, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Throw a mixture in.

it doesn't say it has to originally be a liquid. Throw some contact poison dust in water and squirt
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 16, 2013, 04:58:34 PM
Throw a mixture in.

it doesn't say it has to originally be a liquid. Throw some contact poison dust in water and squirt
Dust of Sneezing and Choking?
Title: Blowpipes
Post by: Captnq on June 16, 2013, 06:12:01 PM
Throw a mixture in.

it doesn't say it has to originally be a liquid. Throw some contact poison dust in water and squirt
Dust of Sneezing and Choking?

Actually, that reminds me...

(click to show/hide)

I cannot find any rules on blowpipes. Anyone have anything or any direction I can go? Also, it's one of the rare triple weapons: Short sword, blowpipe, club! The problem is, I have no idea where to find any rules on blowpipes. If I do, I'm going to have to add powders to my list of ammunition.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 16, 2013, 06:34:54 PM
Masters of the Wild and Complete Warrior's update might help...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 16, 2013, 06:39:45 PM
Throw a mixture in.

it doesn't say it has to originally be a liquid. Throw some contact poison dust in water and squirt
Dust of Sneezing and Choking?

you'd think wet dust wouldn't work, but it works exactly the same
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 16, 2013, 07:05:36 PM
That's what they said about asbestos. :D
Title: Screaming Flask
Post by: Captnq on June 17, 2013, 02:07:00 PM
SCREAMING FLASK
- COMPLETE MAGE (3.5)
Ammunition (Screaming Flask)
Cost: 40 gp
Alchemy DC: 25
Weight: 1 lb
This container is made from thick leather with a cap sewn on tight and fitted with a ripcord. Pulling the cord rips open the flask and activates the alchemical substance within. The flask emits a high-pitched shriek in a 15-foot cone. Anything in the cone takes 1d8 points of sonic damage and is deafened for 1 minute (Fortitude DC 15 negates).
Editor: Frankly, it’s a cool alchemy item, but it’s in your hat. Seriously? You activate it as close to your ears as possible? A sonic attack? Really? That said, it’s one of the cheapest ways to deafen someone in an area effect AND do damage at the same time. Burning hands in a wand that does 2d4 is 45 gp, and that requires you to be a spellcaster. THIS works in an AMF. That said, it’s a hat. That screams. It’s one of the most stupid looking weapons ever. So, which is more important, effectiveness, or appearances? You decide.
Editor (What is it?): Is it reloadable? Can you switch out the flasks and keep your hat on? Can you have a special metal hat? Can you add this to an enchanted hat? I have no idea, only guesses. As written, it’s a one use combination of ammunition and launcher in one. Personally, I’d allow the substance to be loaded into a sprayer, simply because it’s more dignified then having a flask of screams on your head. Then you could have three doses of the stuff, not just one.
Editor (Generic WSAs): If you are willing to look like an idiot, walking around with a bottle wrapped in leather, strapped on top of your head, then you should at least do something cool with it. (Anarchic, Aquan, Auran, Axiomatic, Holy, Ignan, Terran, Unholy, Psibane) All expensive, but good choices, because as they read, its anyone you damage, not hit. Furthermore, it lets you fire into melee without worring about damaging your side too much. Bane is a superior choice, because it’s cheaper. Flying is just funny. Your hat follows you around, floating about. You still need to spend a standard action to activate, but it doesn’t have to be on your head. There is no to hit roll, so there is no point to adding corrosive, frost, flaming, or shock, however, the wording on screaming is different then the others, so it would add +1d4 sonic damage to this. Maybe the only time I would ever buy that nerfed WSA.
Editor (Eager): Now, if you don’t like having it on your head, buy it with Eager. You can draw it as a free action and it gives you +2 on damage ROLLS during your surprise round, so it would add to the 1d8 sonic damage. Now, the problem is, it’s melee weapons only. This certainly isn’t a ranged weapon, but it’s not melee either. By RAW, you shouldn’t allow it, but as a DM, I think I might let it slide, considering it will up the cost of the item +6 gp for the Masterwork, and +160 gp for the +1 to hit/damage (Worthless) and +1 for the eager. All so you get a +2 to your initiative and so you don’t have to wear the hat all the time. Plus, I think it’s funny to have a hat that WANTS to jump on your head and then scream at people. “It’s so stimulating being your hat!” - The Hat, Labyrinth.
Editor (Implacable): This rocks! Everyone injured by the hat is now bleeding (from their ears, I imagine) and takes 2 points of damage a round for 5 rounds. Okay, it’s a +3 bonus, making the minimum additional cost to be +6 gp Mwk and +640 gp for the total +4 to the flask. Still. It’d scare the crap out of me if I just tool sonic damage, was deaf, and bleeding from my ears.
Editor (Magebane): +1 bonus gives you +2d6 damage against arcane spellcasters. Plus, being deaf makes your target have a 20% chance of spell failure when he tries to cast spells. All for the low price of +166 gp. Nice.
Editor (Merciful): +1 bonus, your damage becomes non-lethal and you add +1d6 damage. So it stops being sonic damage and your damage all adds together, so it has a better chance of getting through defenses and you can take people alive. I can see town guard patrols having one guard with a Merciful Magebane hat just for taking down battling arcane spellcasters without killing them. Heck, if you have only merciful, an 8 man patrol could each have one of these hats for 206 gp for a total of 1,648 gp. At an average of 8 points of damage in a 15 foot cone spread out over say, 10 feet between each guard… you could drop a wall of fifty charging commoners, easy.
Editor (Opposable): +1 bonus. Put it on your mount/familiar/animal companion. Enough said.
Editor (Strength Sapping): +2 bonus and sort of expensive, but you don’t have many choices when it comes to WSAs that are worded to work with area effect attacks. Still, DC 15 fort save or become exhausted, that’s a -6 to strength and dexterity. Again, excellent for crowd control.
Editor (Vile): +1 Bonus, you do one extra point of damage, that cannot heal unless you are on hallowed ground. Expensive, but a nice little “Screw you.”

*Snort*

Can I make a screaming Beer Hat?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on June 17, 2013, 03:03:46 PM
Where exactly does it say the screaming flask is in a hat? Because the picture in Complete Mage shows it to be a bottle you point at people.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on June 17, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
"Cap sewn on tight" --> cap to the flask, not a cap like a hat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 17, 2013, 03:22:15 PM
He makes a lot of jumps in his editor notes to :(
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 17, 2013, 03:26:53 PM
"Cap sewn on tight" --> cap to the flask, not a cap like a hat.

Well.

That certainly changes my perspective of things. :lmao

AND shows how old I am. A cap is a hat, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on June 17, 2013, 03:28:03 PM
Where exactly does it say the screaming flask is in a hat? Because the picture in Complete Mage shows it to be a bottle you point at people.
Look at his avatar; he's obviously enamored with hats!  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 17, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Look at his avatar; he's obviously enamored with hats!  :lmao

Actually, I do have quite the collection of hats. An oversized Mad Hatter Hat, a top hat, a Newpaperboy 1920's hat, an Australian Bush Hat and three fedoras. I lament the death of the hat in American culture. The world was a better place when cultural expectations demanded that men wore hats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 17, 2013, 03:52:19 PM
According to the description of Sanctified Armor (Dungeonscape pg 34), divine foci don't need to be in hand when you're casting. 
By the SRD, you must be able to "manipulate" the material components or focus of a spell in order to cast.

Does Dungeonscape count as the "most recent printing" for this purpose?  If so, does that mean that the rule about having material components in hand in order to cast during a grapple is moot, since you don't need material components in hand normally? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: kitep on June 17, 2013, 04:47:48 PM
PHB, p170, under "Choosing a Spell"
Quote
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal
component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate
the material components or focus (if any).  Additionally, you
must concentrate to cast a spell—and it’s hard to concentrate in the
head of battle. (See below for details.)

PHB, p156, under "cast a spell" (whle grappling)
Quote
You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or
even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more
than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have
in hand any material components or focuses you might need.

So even the PHB says you just need to be able to manipulate the focus, you don't need to have it in hand -- except when grappling.

Though you could say p170 is a more recent printing than p156 ....  :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on June 18, 2013, 06:09:27 AM
The root of 'manipulate' is manus or hand. Manipulate means handle. You have to have the components in hand, or be able to retrieve them, as from a spell pouch.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 18, 2013, 01:45:34 PM
Dungeonscape says in no uncertain terms that divine focuses don't have to be "in hand" to be used.  Either this is a contradiction of the rules set forth in the PHB, or a clarification of those rules. 
If it's a contradiction, which source trumps - most recent printing, or primary source?
If it's a clarification, what are the implications?  Does this extend to Arcane Focuses as well?  What about material components?  As far as I can tell, all 3 of these follow the same rules with only a few distinctions. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on June 18, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
The root of 'manipulate' is manus or hand. Manipulate means handle. You have to have the components in hand, or be able to retrieve them, as from a spell pouch.
*facepalm* Just because a word's root means something, doesn't mean that the word most follow that meaning. Here's a list of definitions for manipulate (note "handle or control")

Quote
ma·nip·u·late
verb /məˈnipyəˌlāt/ 
manipulated, past participle; manipulated, past tense; manipulates, 3rd person singular present; manipulating, present participle

Handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner
- he manipulated the dials of the set

Alter, edit, or move (text or data) on a computer

Examine or treat (a part of the body) by feeling or moving it with the hand
- a system of healing based on manipulating the ligaments of the spine

Control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously
- the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group

Alter (data) or present (statistics) so as to mislead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 19, 2013, 01:52:52 AM
The world was a better place when cultural expectations demanded that men wore hats.
I agree with what you're really saying.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 19, 2013, 02:02:46 AM
with no save to resist.
Page 6 says "a successful Will save negates the effect". How do you hex without a save?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on June 19, 2013, 02:39:07 AM
Dungeonscape says in no uncertain terms that divine focuses don't have to be "in hand" to be used.  Either this is a contradiction of the rules set forth in the PHB, or a clarification of those rules. 
If it's a contradiction, which source trumps - most recent printing, or primary source?
If it's a clarification, what are the implications?  Does this extend to Arcane Focuses as well?  What about material components?  As far as I can tell, all 3 of these follow the same rules with only a few distinctions.

If it's a contradiction, core trumps, but if it's more specific, the more specific thing trumps.

With that said, if you can interpret it with no contradictions, then that interpretation is correct.  The only way to do that is to say they don't need to be in your hand unless you're grappling.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 19, 2013, 02:52:05 AM
From Dragon #315...

Orc Blooded
Regions: Bandit Kingdoms, Bone March, Iuz, North Kingdom, Pomarj, Stonehold, Ull, Zeif.
Benefit: You gain darkvision up to 30 feet. Barbarian is considered a favored class for you. You count as an orc for effects related to race.
Special: You may select this feat only at 1st level.

a feat that gives you access to orc items, feats, and PrCs.
does it grant you the orc abilities? "all effects"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 20, 2013, 12:52:49 AM
I just came across the armored savant alternative class feature (Dragon 355, p92) for fighter.  It's taken at 1st level and sacrifices the normal bonus feat. 

One benefit is that you can treat your armor as one category lighter for determining your move speed.  This allows you to move at full speed in mithral full plate without the tooth of Savnok.  Not that 2,000 gp is expensive, but only one can exist at any given time, so it could be difficult to get a hold of. 

Another benefit is that you cut the arcane spell failure chance for you armor in half.  This could be handy for gish builds, since many already dip a level of a non-casting class to get the full martial weapon proficiency required for spellsword.  Even if armored savant has to apply after properties of the armor itself, you've got 20% for githcraft mithral full plate, cut in half to 10%, then reduced by 10% from the first level of spellsword, resulting in 0% arcane spell failure chance. 

Granted, there are other ways to get 0% arcane spell failure chance if full plate, but some DMs might not like feycraft githcraft armor, and twilight is priced as a +1 bonus, which can make things expensive later. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 20, 2013, 01:20:01 AM
The 'Grab Magic' feat from planeswalker allows you to touch someone to steal a spell effect on them, even one that can't normally be cast on you. You need a high enough Cha to 'cast' the spell and they get a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your HD + your Cha mod).

An Annihilation Spell (+3 level metamagic, single target+damaging only) deals Con damage equal to the spell's level (Fort half min 1 at original DC)

did someone say 'no save spells', like magic missile?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on June 20, 2013, 10:29:13 AM
The 'Grab Magic' feat from planeswalker allows you to touch someone to steal a spell effect on them, even one that can't normally be cast on you. You need a high enough Cha to 'cast' the spell and they get a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your HD + your Cha mod).

An Annihilation Spell (+3 level metamagic, single target+damaging only) deals Con damage equal to the spell's level (Fort half min 1 at original DC)

did someone say 'no save spells', like magic missile?

Kauper's Quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a) is a pathetic 1st-level damaging spell. Single target, Reflex half, 1 damage/level (max 5). However, it's cast as a free/swift action, as per a Quickened spell, which makes it wonderful to combine with metamagic like Fell Drain and Annihilation Spell that have real effects of their own.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on June 20, 2013, 11:27:49 AM
I could see Kauper's Quickblast being lots of fun to combine with Born of Three Thunders as well.  Once a round, as a swift action, force your foe to save vs. being prone and stunned.  They'll roll a 1 eventually.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 20, 2013, 11:47:52 AM
Monk items from Dragon #325, p98:

Bands of the Iron Monkey (15k) grant +2 initiative and Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. If you already have Deflect Arrows you can use it 2/round.

Obi of the White Lotus Master (48k) is a belt that grants a +4 armor bonus to AC if you're lawful, and a 20% miss chance if you're LN and have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. True seeing can't penetrate it, but it doesn't apply if you're denied Dex to AC.

Staff of the Crushing Breeze (18k) is a +2 quarterstaff that grants Improved Trip as a bonus feat. So... Improved Trip as a +1 equivalent enhancement then?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 20, 2013, 12:17:04 PM
Kauper's Quickblast is actually a free action

Obi of the White Lotus Master is really good
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on June 20, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
It states it works as a Quickened Spell, and since that spell was printed prior to the Swift action change, probably "safe" to just make it a swift as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 20, 2013, 03:03:29 PM
Obi of the White Lotus Master is really good
Handy.

Say Monk 9, Dark Moon Disciple & Invisible Fist.
50% Miss Chance from Concealment.
20% Miss Chance from Incorporeal.
20% Miss Chance as an untyped bonus.
It comes out to [100-(1.0*0.5*0.8*0.8)] 68% correct?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 03:54:35 PM
That reminds me...

The Umbral Disciple's 3rd level class feature, Embrace of Shadows, gives you an untyped form of miss chance (that sadly does not stack with any other forms of miss chance) equal to Essentia invested * 10%, with no cap.

Also, if you have more than 2 essentia invested, you get Hide in Plain Sight.

Yes, if you optimize your essentia capacity, you too can have 100% miss chance!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 20, 2013, 03:56:32 PM
That reminds me...

The Umbral Disciple's 3rd level class feature, Embrace of Shadows, gives you an untyped form of miss chance (that sadly does not stack with any other forms of miss chance) equal to Essentia invested * 10%, with no cap.

Also, if you have more than 2 essentia invested, you get Hide in Plain Sight.

Yes, if you optimize your essentia capacity, you too can have 100% miss chance!
How hard is it to hit 10 essentia, though?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 20, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Holy crap!!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on June 20, 2013, 04:04:04 PM
Seems pretty cool, but since Embrace of Shadow is a class ability, and not a feat or a soulmeld, getting more essentia into it might be a problem.  The PrC tells you to check pg. 19 to see the essentia capacity for each of the class abilities.  And at level 20, it is capped at 4 essentia.  Now with soulmelds and incarnum feats there are some ways to bypass that cap.  Might be harder to pull off with class abilities though.

Still, very interesting catch there, Amechra.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 04:07:36 PM
Oh, hi there Incandescent Champion!

What?

You get a class feature that, for 1 round, adds your Charisma modifier to your Essentia capacity? Only once a day, though?

Umbral Disciple 3/Incandescent Champion 4 gives you a 1/day emergency button, if your Charisma is high enough.

Combine with Temporal Reiteration cheese to make sure nothing can hit you.

But other than that, yeah, you can't really get past the 4 point maximum (well, unless you go pretty far into Epic.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 20, 2013, 04:10:29 PM
How long does that essentia increase last?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 04:17:45 PM
1 round. Sadly.

Temporal Reiteration makes that "as long as you have power points to spend. And are willing to give up swift actions for."

You can also boost it by 1 if you have a Cleric with the Azurin substitution level... but other than that, it kinda falls flat.

Still, if you can get your DM to agree to using UA Action Points, you can get another use for an action point.

If you are using Eberron action points... You can't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on June 20, 2013, 04:21:06 PM
Even still, a 40% miss chance against all attacks that isn't defeated by true seeing and whatnot is pretty handy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 20, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
combine that with the azure talent and psycarnum infusion trick, and you can use it once per round, assuming you can regain focus once per round as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 20, 2013, 04:33:34 PM
1 round. Sadly.

Temporal Reiteration makes that "as long as you have power points to spend. And are willing to give up swift actions for."

You can also boost it by 1 if you have a Cleric with the Azurin substitution level... but other than that, it kinda falls flat.

Still, if you can get your DM to agree to using UA Action Points, you can get another use for an action point.

If you are using Eberron action points... You can't.
Mix with a Schism? Could that give you the actions you need?

Er, wait, Swift. Nevermind.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 05:22:43 PM
On another note, the Raptor's Mask from the MiC (p. 210) is a steal.

It costs 3500 gp, and goes in your face slot.

It renders you immune to effects that would leave you Dazzled or Blinded.

That's right, it doesn't give you immunity to being Dazzled or Blinded. It renders you immune to any effect that has those effects as a consequence.

In other words...

"CL 50 Blasphemy!"
"Well, I'm wearing my Raptor's Mask, and Blasphemy has blinding me as a consequence, so... it does nothing."

The only other item in that set that is useful at all is the Phoenix Cloak, for Perfect maneuverability flight.

Looking at the other item sets, the Shirt of Wraith Stalking is scary.

6000 gp for at-will saveless Hide from Undead? That's a steal any day of the week.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on June 20, 2013, 05:56:43 PM
On another note, the Raptor's Mask from the MiC (p. 210) is a steal.

It costs 3500 gp, and goes in your face slot.

It renders you immune to effects that would leave you Dazzled or Blinded.

That's right, it doesn't give you immunity to being Dazzled or Blinded. It renders you immune to any effect that has those effects as a consequence.

In other words...

"CL 50 Blasphemy!"
"Well, I'm wearing my Raptor's Mask, and Blasphemy has blinding me as a consequence, so... it does nothing."

The only other item in that set that is useful at all is the Phoenix Cloak, for Perfect maneuverability flight.

Looking at the other item sets, the Shirt of Wraith Stalking is scary.

6000 gp for at-will saveless Hide from Undead? That's a steal any day of the week.

Had a player use that in my campaign once...he was playing a witch-hunter type.

Attack the Undead from range. Next round, hide and move. Rinse Repeat.

Well. That was a fun tomb... The annoying thing was, undead weren't a challenge... and if I didn't use undead then he didn't get his money's worth from the item. So I was forced to use living "handlers" with undead minions... which wasn't the end of the world. Should you know that your DM plans on running an undead heavy campaign though... this is a 6,000gp FUCK YOU I WIN, most of the time.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 06:06:45 PM
I know, I had that happen to me too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 20, 2013, 11:56:31 PM
How does this work w a Living Blockade? (the 5ft cube of wood)
Quote from: Living Spell
Spell Effect (Su): A creature hit by a living spell's slam attack is subjected to the normal effect of the spell or spells making up the creature, as if it were within the area or effect of the spell itself. Saves apply as normal for the spell; the DC is 10 + spell level + Cha modifier.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on June 21, 2013, 11:54:23 AM
How does this work w a Living Blockade? (the 5ft cube of wood)
Quote from: Living Spell
Spell Effect (Su): A creature hit by a living spell's slam attack is subjected to the normal effect of the spell or spells making up the creature, as if it were within the area or effect of the spell itself. Saves apply as normal for the spell; the DC is 10 + spell level + Cha modifier.

Well normal effect of Blockade is a 5 foot cube of wood that lasts for 3 rounds.  There is no explanation in the game what it means to be subject to wood.  Therefore it's undefined.  I would assume the wood pushes you out of your square unless you make a strength check to move it instead.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 21, 2013, 12:31:56 PM
i was thinking that "as if it were within the area or effect of the spell" seems to imply they are IN the wood block, since the effect is the block and they are within the effect
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 21, 2013, 12:52:54 PM
1 round. Sadly.

Temporal Reiteration makes that "as long as you have power points to spend. And are willing to give up swift actions for."

You can also boost it by 1 if you have a Cleric with the Azurin substitution level... but other than that, it kinda falls flat.

Still, if you can get your DM to agree to using UA Action Points, you can get another use for an action point.

If you are using Eberron action points... You can't.
Mix with a Schism? Could that give you the actions you need?

Er, wait, Swift. Nevermind.



combine that with the azure talent and psycarnum infusion trick, and you can use it once per round, assuming you can regain focus once per round as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 21, 2013, 03:19:45 PM
Niji, how exactly does that combo between Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion work exactly?  Would it actually be able to bypass the table on page 19 that says the capacity limit is usually 4?

Getting focus once a round is easy of course.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 21, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
Belt of Battle, MIC, 73 - 12,000gp.
+2 competence to initiative
Five charges / day: spend for 1 charge = extra move, 2 charges = extra standard, 3 charges = extra full-round.

I can't find the cost for a bonus to initiative, so I'm going with 0gp, the least favorable for this.
The modification on base price for charges / day is "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)", or in this case, "Divide by 5/5"
Which is silly, but that's how it works.
So, let's just make it command-word, because why not? That means we remove the modification for per day...
12,000 gp * (5/5) = 12,000 gp.
(We multiply by 5/5 instead of dividing, because we're removing the modification, but hey, nothing changes, woo!)

Enjoy your free actions, forever.
I do not take responsibility for your DM's throwing sourcebooks at you for using this
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 21, 2013, 04:26:15 PM
On a charged item, a function that consumes multiple charges per use gets a discount.  Since you're converting a belt of battle to not be limited by charges, you need to multiply the component of the cost that arises from the ability to gain a standard action by 2, and multiply the component of the cost that comes from the ability to gain a full-round action by 3. 

I'd also argue that abilities that draw from the same pool of charges should get the discount for “multiple similar abilities,” whereas abilities that don't compete with each other for resources like that should get the price increase for “multiple different abilities.”  Granted, only the ability to gain a full-round action is relevant once the limitation of charges is taken away. 

Bear in mind, activating a belt of battle is a swift action, so you're not going to get infinite actions each round from this alteration. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 21, 2013, 05:11:43 PM
On a charged item, a function that consumes multiple charges per use gets a discount.  Since you're converting a belt of battle to not be limited by charges, you need to multiply the component of the cost that arises from the ability to gain a standard action by 2, and multiply the component of the cost that comes from the ability to gain a full-round action by 3. 

I'd also argue that abilities that draw from the same pool of charges should get the discount for “multiple similar abilities,” whereas abilities that don't compete with each other for resources like that should get the price increase for “multiple different abilities.”  Granted, only the ability to gain a full-round action is relevant once the limitation of charges is taken away. 

Bear in mind, activating a belt of battle is a swift action, so you're not going to get infinite actions each round from this alteration.
Hmph. Okay. I didn't read it being a swift in MIC... >:(
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 21, 2013, 11:26:22 PM
Player's Guide to Faerun
The Initiate of Ilmater gives the ability to have infinite temp hp :o

The Family domain's power gives a bunch a buddies +2 dodge to AC, if they MOVE farther than 10ft. They keep if though if you move away ;)

Planescape
Minor Loophole helps w early entry, like 2nd level wiz spells for ANY class.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 22, 2013, 11:00:09 AM
Player's Guide to Faerun
The Initiate of Ilmater gives the ability to have infinite temp hp :o
Warning, read the fine print on that claim.
Quote from: http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/initiate-ilmater--3271/
Benefit
When you cast any cure spell - Anything even grant Cure X Wounds as an At-Will SLA? - that would cure more damage than the target has taken, the target gains the excess as temporary hit points. You can bestow a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to the target's Hit Dice in this manner. - Temp HP amount is capped, and low enough it may only block a single attack - These temporary hit points last up to 1 hour per caster level you posses. A creature that currently has any of these temporary hit points also gains a +2 sacred bonus on Fortitude saves and a +2 sacred bonus on checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped. These bonuses end when the last temporary hit point is lost or expires. In addition, you may add the following spells to you cleric or paladin spell list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 22, 2013, 02:26:21 PM
Actually I saw they fixed the 'x' in the errata, so its HD x 3
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 23, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
The X in the post was my text (all the blue is), did I not make it noticeable enough?

The addition is nice and it's not a bad fine. Just your pitch needed one of those little lawyer stars or a fast talking actor speaking at a low volume.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 23, 2013, 12:18:27 PM
He's talking about a part of the text that's different depending on where you look. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on June 23, 2013, 01:58:06 PM
He's talking about a part of the text that's different depending on where you look. 
  • D&Dtools: “Hit Dice”
  • Player's Guide to Faerun: “Hit Dice 3”
  • Errata: “Hit Dice ×3”
:lmao Some writer/editor failed math hard.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 23, 2013, 01:58:57 PM
Exactly!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: kitep on June 23, 2013, 03:55:23 PM
When you cast any cure spell - Anything even grant Cure X Wounds as an At-Will SLA? - that would cure more damage than the target has taken, the target gains the excess as temporary hit points.

What about Innate Spell (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/innate-spell--1649/)?  Once/round at-will SLA of a 1st level CLW by losing a 9th level spell.  Probably other ways, but that's the only one I know of.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 23, 2013, 06:29:18 PM
Niji, how exactly does that combo between Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion work exactly?  Would it actually be able to bypass the table on page 19 that says the capacity limit is usually 4?

Getting focus once a round is easy of course.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation

no, it would not bypass the capacity max. you would have to take incarnum classes to boost the max. however, it would allow the effect to be triggered once per round.

actually, the psycarnum infusion is not specifically needed, that is just part of the always-available power points trick. the applicable feat is azure talent which allows one to expend psionic focus to treat one incarnum receptacle as full for one round. as it does not seem to count as actually filling the receptacle with incarnum (which usually locks the incarnum, and usage of the ability for the day), this has the nifty (if perhaps unintended-by-design) effect of allowing you to use an incarnum receptacle repeatedly.

however, the effect ends after one round, so while it cannot be perpetuated short of something like temporal reiteration, it can be triggered once per round.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 23, 2013, 06:33:11 PM
He's talking about a part of the text that's different depending on where you look. 
  • D&Dtools: “Hit Dice”
  • Player's Guide to Faerun: “Hit Dice ∞ 3”
  • Errata: “Hit Dice ×3”
And now I understand.

lol.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 23, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
I just read the spirit domain (Dragon 312, p36). 

(click to show/hide)

One use for the granted power that springs to mind is using bestow curse on people without making it obvious that you're the one who did it.  If you make the spell still and silent, you can just touch the voodoo doll (or action figure) in your pocket when you see your target on the other side of the market (or wherever).  You could also use it for outright assassination.  That would probably be easiest with a wizard using the domain granted power alternative class feature (Complete Champion, p52).  The poison spell feat (Drow of the Underdark, p51) can turn even a lowly inflict minor wounds spell into vehicle for something fatal. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 23, 2013, 09:22:49 PM
Niji, how exactly does that combo between Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion work exactly?  Would it actually be able to bypass the table on page 19 that says the capacity limit is usually 4?

Getting focus once a round is easy of course.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation

no, it would not bypass the capacity max. you would have to take incarnum classes to boost the max. however, it would allow the effect to be triggered once per round.

actually, the psycarnum infusion is not specifically needed, that is just part of the always-available power points trick. the applicable feat is azure talent which allows one to expend psionic focus to treat one incarnum receptacle as full for one round. as it does not seem to count as actually filling the receptacle with incarnum (which usually locks the incarnum, and usage of the ability for the day), this has the nifty (if perhaps unintended-by-design) effect of allowing you to use an incarnum receptacle repeatedly.

however, the effect ends after one round, so while it cannot be perpetuated short of something like temporal reiteration, it can be triggered once per round.

Just to make it clear, the ability that grants miss chance is not 1/day.

That would be the ability to add your Charisma to the capacity.

Also, you have the feats backwards; Azure Talent gives you power-points, Psycarnum Infusion fills the receptacle.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 23, 2013, 10:28:48 PM
Spirit domain is really cool
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 23, 2013, 11:40:04 PM

Just to make it clear, the ability that grants miss chance is not 1/day.

That would be the ability to add your Charisma to the capacity.

Also, you have the feats backwards; Azure Talent gives you power-points, Psycarnum Infusion fills the receptacle.

yes, sorry, my misquote. *^^*

indeed, not 1/day, but many incarnum feats lock up your incarnum pool, and quite a few are limited use. with this, you can use any of them for a round at a time whenever one wishes without using any of your incarnum pool up.

i likely stated it very poorly, my apologies if so.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on June 24, 2013, 09:56:00 AM
Been thinking about the elemental turning thing lately, you know, the special ways of turning creatures with elemental subtypes granted by the Air, Earth, Fire and Water domains. Some of the things those elemental creatures can do are amazing, if you can just get your turns to stick, so you actually command and don't only rebuke. For example, your 14th level Cleric might want a permanent planehopping taxi in the form of a Djinni (genies get to Plane Shift themselves and up to eight creatures at will). Or your 6th level Cleric could do with the excellent, excellent scouting that is afforded by commanding a Minor Xorn. I haven't really thought this through to the end, but to me it seems this is a great, and much overlooked ability.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kerrus on June 24, 2013, 09:57:38 AM
So I was browsing through some old build notes today from back when I was building an intimidatomancer for an IRC game- and I found this.

In Dragon Magic there's a spell called "Adoration of the Frightful", which is a hexblade 2, bard/cleric/sorc/wiz 3 spell, takes a standard action to cast, range 60ft radius, and lasts for a minute a level (Will negates).

Any enemy hit by the spell who fails their save that is under the fear effects shaken, frightened, or panicked, has its attitude towards you shifted to 'friendly' for the duration of the fear effect/ or the spell, whichever ends first. (or if you or an ally attack the target/take a hostile act towards it). You also gain a +1 competence to diplo checks just by learning the spell, lol.


So anyways, the plan I'd apparently had involved optimizing the Intimidating Strike feat and then casting this spell via wand (quickened, presumably).

With this in mind, you can basically punch a guy, and he becomes friendly towards you. Intimidating strike makes a target successfully intimidated by it shaken for the rest of the encounter, which is generally up to the DM, though I've often seen a 'five minutes' limit set. If we assume 5 minutes, then you could use this to easily make a target friendly for that duration, which is enough to do a lot of fun stuff with them :p.


Just thought I'd share, since it seemed amusing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 24, 2013, 02:43:18 PM
power repository shards (either ECS or MoE) allow you to have any power known from any list.

restrictions are racial (kalashtar or inspired only; though depending on setting others may be allowed, for example the FR version of the elan would technically meet the implied racial requirements) and level (powers 1-4 only); the loss of 1 hp per grafted crystal, and no more than 1 crystal per ML is fairly minor, unless one figures out a way to go hog wild.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on June 24, 2013, 02:53:21 PM
power repository shards (either ECS or MoE) allow you to have any power known from any list.

restrictions are racial (kalashtar or inspired only; though depending on setting others may be allowed, for example the FR version of the elan would technically meet the implied racial requirements) and level (powers 1-4 only); the loss of 1 hp per grafted crystal, and no more than 1 crystal per ML is fairly minor, unless one figures out a way to go hog wild.

I would personally just get a few dojeries(sp?) and use the body slots for Power Link Shards.  Something about overchanneling to 3x your manifester level 3x a day is silly good.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on June 24, 2013, 03:40:14 PM
power repository shards (either ECS or MoE) allow you to have any power known from any list.

restrictions are racial (kalashtar or inspired only; though depending on setting others may be allowed, for example the FR version of the elan would technically meet the implied racial requirements) and level (powers 1-4 only); the loss of 1 hp per grafted crystal, and no more than 1 crystal per ML is fairly minor, unless one figures out a way to go hog wild.

I would personally just get a few dojeries(sp?) and use the body slots for Power Link Shards.  Something about overchanneling to 3x your manifester level 3x a day is silly good.

not disagreeing with the link shards, they are very nice, but dorjes cannot get you powers that are not on your list. there are certain builds that find having one or more off-list powers, thus repository shards, advantageous.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Arz on June 24, 2013, 06:22:44 PM
Divine Crusader - Stacks with any alignment aura, like a psychic aura of chaos. Seems cheesy until you realize its something for Divine Mind. Definitely for the low tier quirky characters. Or Kord! Chaos, conflict, and physical power.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 24, 2013, 06:58:03 PM
@kerrus, could you bluff them into thinking its a harmless spell?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 24, 2013, 07:03:42 PM
(click to show/hide)

Blue Dragons are of the earth subtype. Technically, as the earth subtype, one could make a case that the delver slime does 8d10 against them. Buy 10 flasks of this stuff for 1500 gp. Four man team walks in. Flasks are considered light, so the ranger uses his two-weapon fighting to throw two flasks. Five flasks thrown at Touch Attack AC 9. Average damage is 44 hp. 220 HP damage against an adult blue of 241 HP. Maybe he's still up. Maybe the player's got lucky. If not and the PCs make it to round two, dragon is dead. No saving throw. No nothing.

Just thought that was a little broken.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 24, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
Ouch!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 24, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
Even though they have the Earth subtype, I'm not sure you could call a Blue Dragon "stony" based on the picture or description in the MM.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on June 24, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Even though they have the Earth subtype, I'm not sure you could call a Blue Dragon "stony" based on the picture or description in the MM.

This. I often wish the authors were more specific, instead of leaving "stoney" up to the DM to determine.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 24, 2013, 10:19:44 PM
Now mineral warriors on the other hand...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on June 24, 2013, 10:48:44 PM
Looking at the Pathfinder Adventurer's Armory and came across this:

Throwing Shield: This shield is designed for throwing
and comes with specially designed straps allowing you to
unclasp and throw it as a free action.
Tower shields cannot
be throwing shields. Neither a shield’s enhancement
bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply to your attack or
damage rolls.

Now, the wording is terrible. But it could be argued that both unclasping, and throwing it are free actions. An extra free action attack? Sure. That could be useful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on June 24, 2013, 10:58:15 PM
Add Animated and Rapid Returning (I think it's called), and you get a free shield throw every round, while getting to keep your shield AC!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 24, 2013, 11:23:39 PM
Throw it on a pair of bucklers?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 24, 2013, 11:36:40 PM
No limit/round on most free actions
Title: WEAPON HANDBOOK v3.01
Post by: Captnq on June 25, 2013, 12:02:39 AM
post some crazy stuff.

Okay. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg145231#msg145231) is the latest version of my weapon handbook.

What's in it? EVERYTHING. Every Weapon. EVERY. WEAPON. If It even LOOKS like a weapon, it's in there. It's got ammo. Not just ammo, but ALL THE AMMO. If you can launch it, throw it, drop it, or hell, EVEN SPIT IT (yes, both the poison tooth and the mouth darts), I got it in there.

It's got all the Poisons! You wanna poison someone, it's got your poison. Contact, Injury, Ingestion, Inhaled. You want someone dead, or just to wish they were dead, or melt the face off a lich, or maybe dissolve them into a puddle of bubbling goo, That last one will take some work, but it's not impossible!

What if you want to put magical crap on your weapons? Tired of the same old tired list of tired old WSAs that make for the same tired old combinations? (I gots those, BTW) Well then try the BRAND SPANKING NEW LIST OF EXTRAPOLATED WEAPON SPECIAL ABILITIES!!!

Combine Speed with Offhanded and Serpent Tooth to get three extra actions a ROUND! Figure out how many different WSAs you can stick on THE SAME PAIR OF GAUNTLETS! Increase your caster level by holding a Stick! Learn how to make the ultimate weapon of tripping! Trick out your Crossbow like you were on a Reality TV Show about making Custom projectile medieval Weapons!

AND THAT'S NOT ALL!!!

I'm Frickin' Tired! This has given me a huge god damn headache! I haven't gone to the barber in over two months, and my hair looks like I'm an escaped Extra from The 1965's TV show The Monkees!

Download Now and I won't CARE cause I'm going to go to bed and then maybe play Borderlands 2 for a while, BECAUSE I ENJOY WEARING JACK'S FACE!!!

Servers are STANDING BY!!!

*'sup*
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 25, 2013, 12:31:19 AM
I didn't (and still don't) give you permission to wear my face.  :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on June 25, 2013, 12:48:15 AM
Splendid  :D. Captnq, you are a machine.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 25, 2013, 12:57:25 AM
good, another great compendium of a bunch of stuff to go along w my spell list  :clap
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kerrus on June 25, 2013, 08:56:10 AM
@kerrus, could you bluff them into thinking its a harmless spell?

What, so that they willingly fail their will save? I doubt it. I don't see why you'd need to though, if you're a cha based caster your intimidate and save DC's are both based on charisma and that's easy enough to boost to make saving against it unlikely.


At the higher tier, get a use activated custom magic item to cast a target specific version of the spell (to reduce costs) on anyone you you hit with intimidating strike. Condense it all into a single action, and you can basically slap an enemy into being your friend.

*Orc runs up and attacks you*

*Slaps Orc, intimidating strike + adoration of the frightful*

"Dude, why the hell are you attacking me?"

"Sorry, idk what came over me."

"Well you better give me that sword- you could hurt yourself with it."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 25, 2013, 12:31:31 PM
Looking at the Pathfinder Adventurer's Armory and came across this:

Throwing Shield: This shield is designed for throwing
and comes with specially designed straps allowing you to
unclasp and throw it as a free action.
Tower shields cannot
be throwing shields. Neither a shield’s enhancement
bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply to your attack or
damage rolls.

Now, the wording is terrible. But it could be argued that both unclasping, and throwing it are free actions. An extra free action attack? Sure. That could be useful.

Ya know, I included any shield that could be used as a weapon in my handbook. I'm just now thinking of the Manopole that allow you to use as a weapon and retain your armor bonus when you use it.

(click to show/hide)

Make it out of mithral so no chance of arcane spell failure. Then add teleporting so it comes back to your hand (teleporting works so much better as it always returns to your hand even if you move out of your original square). Add that throwing shield thing from pathfinder. Maybe add exit wound, what the hell, distance too. As a free action I punch through everyone in a 100 foot line, it comes back to my hand. OOO! I add Off-handed as a +3 Bonus, so I get an extra attack with my off hand manople before I take the free attack to throw it through everyone down a corridor.

Sick. Just sick.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kerrus on June 25, 2013, 10:22:02 PM
Dragon 323 has some  interesting dwarf themed magical items- one in particular potentially pretty useful:

Statuette of the All-Father can only be used by clerics of lawful good, neutral good, or lawful neutral alignment while preparing spells (doesn't have to worship Moradin).

Once per day, a cleric of any of those alignments can use the statuette to prepare spells of the Strength Domain as if they were domain spells. Also, for that day, the cleric gains the granted power of the Strength Domain.

So basically free access to the Strength Domain for a day, every day.

How much does this wonderful item cost, you ask?

2000 gp. Faint abjuration, CL 3rd, craft wondrous item, Bull's Strength. Weight 5 lbs.



Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on June 25, 2013, 10:39:35 PM
Looking at the Pathfinder Adventurer's Armory and came across this:

Throwing Shield: This shield is designed for throwing
and comes with specially designed straps allowing you to
unclasp and throw it as a free action.
Tower shields cannot
be throwing shields. Neither a shield’s enhancement
bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply to your attack or
damage rolls.

Now, the wording is terrible. But it could be argued that both unclasping, and throwing it are free actions. An extra free action attack? Sure. That could be useful.

Ya know, I included any shield that could be used as a weapon in my handbook. I'm just now thinking of the Manopole that allow you to use as a weapon and retain your armor bonus when you use it.

(click to show/hide)

Make it out of mithral so no chance of arcane spell failure. Then add teleporting so it comes back to your hand (teleporting works so much better as it always returns to your hand even if you move out of your original square). Add that throwing shield thing from pathfinder. Maybe add exit wound, what the hell, distance too. As a free action I punch through everyone in a 100 foot line, it comes back to my hand. OOO! I add Off-handed as a +3 Bonus, so I get an extra attack with my off hand manople before I take the free attack to throw it through everyone down a corridor.

Sick. Just sick.

Ok, not familiar with all of those enhancements. I know Teleporting. I am assuming Exit Wound turns it into a Line Attack? What book is that from? What does Off-handed do? Also, if you are talking about throwing it on a Wizard, why not use it as you primary weapon? Not like you are generally going to be doing standard attacks each round anyway.

Could you use this to deliver touch spells, like maybe Chilling Touch or some such as a free action?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 25, 2013, 11:25:47 PM
Ya know, I included any shield that could be used as a weapon in my handbook. I'm just now thinking of the Manopole that allow you to use as a weapon and retain your armor bonus when you use it.

(click to show/hide)

Make it out of mithral so no chance of arcane spell failure. Then add teleporting so it comes back to your hand (teleporting works so much better as it always returns to your hand even if you move out of your original square). Add that throwing shield thing from pathfinder. Maybe add exit wound, what the hell, distance too. As a free action I punch through everyone in a 100 foot line, it comes back to my hand. OOO! I add Off-handed as a +3 Bonus, so I get an extra attack with my off hand manople before I take the free attack to throw it through everyone down a corridor.

Sick. Just sick.

Not sure I'm a fan of using it on a Wizard.  They only need one hand to provide somatic components, but the fact that you can't hold anything in your manopole hand means you can't use metamagic rods and such, and makes it more difficult to use staffs/wands/scrolls.  I think it'd be put to better use on a standard TWF build.

As an aside, why does this thing have Arcane Spell Failure chance?  You can't use that hand to cast spells, so it can't possibly interfere with your casting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on June 25, 2013, 11:51:02 PM
Ya know, I included any shield that could be used as a weapon in my handbook. I'm just now thinking of the Manopole that allow you to use as a weapon and retain your armor bonus when you use it.

(click to show/hide)

Make it out of mithral so no chance of arcane spell failure. Then add teleporting so it comes back to your hand (teleporting works so much better as it always returns to your hand even if you move out of your original square). Add that throwing shield thing from pathfinder. Maybe add exit wound, what the hell, distance too. As a free action I punch through everyone in a 100 foot line, it comes back to my hand. OOO! I add Off-handed as a +3 Bonus, so I get an extra attack with my off hand manople before I take the free attack to throw it through everyone down a corridor.

Sick. Just sick.

Not sure I'm a fan of using it on a Wizard.  They only need one hand to provide somatic components, but the fact that you can't hold anything in your manopole hand means you can't use metamagic rods and such, and makes it more difficult to use staffs/wands/scrolls.  I think it'd be put to better use on a standard TWF build.

As an aside, why does this thing have Arcane Spell Failure chance?  You can't use that hand to cast spells, so it can't possibly interfere with your casting.

Same reason a shield does. You can't cast with the hand wielding a heavy shield, and yet you've got 15% ASF nonetheless.

I'm mildly impressed with the manople. EWP (manople) is mostly equivalent to taking Improved Shield Bash and using a heavy spiked shield. However, while the shield has 1 more AC, it also has slightly more ACP and ASF, only a 20/x2 critical, is one-handed instead of light, and can be "donned" as drawing a weapon instead of a fixed move action (and likewise dropped as a free action instead of a move action). Enchanting a shield with Bashing would result in more damage, though (1 die size, possibly two is Bashing applies on top of shield spikes). Still, being a light weapon instead of one-handed means you can use a one-handed weapon in your other hand when TWFing without eating the extra -2 attack penalty, as opposed to having to use a light weapon and your shield bash as main hand.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 26, 2013, 01:30:11 AM
The Stuff of Legends is great for a Hulking Hurler, you get your Con mod to Str mod for carrying capacity!

from planescape
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kerrus on June 26, 2013, 06:45:03 AM
Dragon 345 has some new spells, among them a ripe for abuse wiz/sorc 0 cantrip called 'Chalkboard'.

Range: Close (25 ft+ 5ft/2 levels)
Effect: Figment of a chalkbroad up to 10ft by 10ft square.
Duration: Cocnentration+ 1 round/level
Save: Will disbelief if interacted with.
Spell resistance: No.

Creates a chalkbroad figment floating at roughly arm's reach- but can be positioned anywhere in range. Stays relative to you if you move, you can maneuver it however you like.

It can be anywhere from 1 inch to 10ft by 10 ft square (perfect for covering the mouth of a tunnel, or the top of a pit) You can draw on the chalkboard by moving your finger as you would a piece of chalk, an illusory chalk textured line of any color (note: any colour) appears, you can erase existing lines, blah blah blah.

*You can create the chalkboard as blank, or covered in writing and/or pictures (as detailed or as vague as you wish, but within the limitations of what you can create with chalk).

'What you can create with chalk' goes into Wily Coyote territory.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ariellecalderon/brain-melting-works-of-3-d-sidewalk-chalk-art
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 26, 2013, 06:50:44 AM
Rich Burlew complained about that one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10546571&postcount=17)
Quote
Since no one who was an editor for the magazine back then still is today, I don’t mind saying that I thought they absolutely butchered some of the spells that did make it into print. In particular, there was a cantrip called chalkboard that was originally conceived as a phantasm that only the caster could see, allowing him to write notes in midair that appeared in his field of vision but were invisible to anyone else. The editors changed that to a visible chalkboard illusion, and then added that it provided concealment for anyone standing behind it. So the spell went from a handy note-taking aide to a spell that provided a powerful (and unintended) combat advantage at a ridiculously low level. And my name was the sole credit on it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kerrus on June 26, 2013, 07:33:25 AM
Hahaha.

Later on in that issue is a neat paragon path called "Sworn Slayer"- I almost skipped over it because at a glance it's pretty martial and bad, but I think it has some potential for a level 3 feature.

Basically it's a BAB+6 entry class, and you have to have sworn a vow to kill all creatures of a specific kind, and for his troubles gets what are effectively truncated (it's a 5 level PrC) favoured enemy bonuses from it. These bonuses are listed as *stacking* with the bonuses (not levels) of a ranger's favoured enemy class feature's bonus, so you could double up easily enough. Bonuses to skills, bonuses to saves at 2nd level, extra bonuses to skills and damage against a specific creature of that type (so lich, if the type is undead, for example).

And then at third level it gains the Nemesis Feat. Nemesis is essentially favoured enemy radar- it requires that you have the favoured enemy feature- but the class lets you waive the requirements, so presumably it's meant that you can use its sworn foe feature with it.

You can pinpoint its exact location (they use those words) within 60 feet of you, which is a supernatural ability. This goes through all obstructions like walls/floors/ceilings- that sort of thing. Also grants you a +1d6 on damage rolls against your favoured enemy. Unfortunately it doesn't let you see through invis- though you do know exactly where the creature is.

Now here's the fun part: This is actually an Exalted Feat, but as long as you're of good alignment, you get it just fine. If you're *not* good, you still get it, but 'it becomes a normal feat'.

So if you're good it's a surefire way to get an exalted feat, which among other things causes you to radiate an aura of good equal to your character level. Neat.



Now given that you can get favoured enemy spellcasters via a ranger ACF, one could easily take this in conjunction with that, get some nice stacking bonuses, and have spellcaster radar 60.

The class's capstone power is (of course) a sworn enemy specific death attack.

Given how DM reliant getting exalted type feats are, typically, I thought this would be a nifty thing, since it's not remotely DM reliant, but moreover you can reliably use it to get favoured enemy radar, which is hilariously useful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on June 26, 2013, 03:50:27 PM
Ok, not familiar with all of those enhancements. I know Teleporting. I am assuming Exit Wound turns it into a Line Attack? What book is that from? What does Off-handed do? Also, if you are talking about throwing it on a Wizard, why not use it as you primary weapon? Not like you are generally going to be doing standard attacks each round anyway.

Could you use this to deliver touch spells, like maybe Chilling Touch or some such as a free action?

Did you see me rambling earlier about finishing my weapon handbook. Everything is in there.

Teleporting +1 Bonus - EXPANDED PSIONICS HANDBOOK (3.5)
Always returns to you, doesn't do that stupid flying back to you crap.

Exit Wound +2 bonus - COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5)
Goes THROUGH your target to hit the target behind him USING THE SAME TO HIT ROLL AS THE FIRST. Example: Okay, Str 16, +1 Throwing/Distance/Exit Wound/Teleporting Heavy Pick I’m holding with two hands. I got a BAB: 7 as a cleric. I power attack for +7 which I add to my +3 for Str and since it’s with two hands, my damage is now 1d6+1d6+16. I cast surge of fortune a few rounds before, so now I get to throw it. I take the auto 20 and get lucky for a confirmed critical. Let’s say damage is a nice average 23. Now the critical is x4 for 92 points of damage to everyone in a straight line for 100 feet. Next round it appears in my hand and I look at the next row of targets, “Sorry to -pick- on you.”

Off-handed is in the extrapolated Weapon Special Ability Section. It works out to be a +3 bonus that gives you an extra attack, but only with an off-hand weapon. It stacks with Speed, as if anyone ever takes speed.

Why on a wizard?
It's a free attack, baby. As in, I cast a spell, then bitch slap someone as a free action, watch it teleport back onto my hand. I need to use my hand? Oh. Okay. I use my free action at the start of my round. Now My hand is free until the start of my next action. It eliminates the one drawback of a wizard using it, because you can get rid of it as a free attack, freeing up your hand for your spells, but it comes back to you later. True, you lose the shield bonus while it's gone, but that's made up for in the versatility. Keep it on when you are in HTH range, use it when you are hanging back.

And to the guy who says, "I like carrying a metamagic rod." You still do. In your main hand. You throw the Shield/Fist at someone, draw your material componates as a free action (part of casting the spell) cast your spell, the material componates are gone, the glove teleports back onto your hand.

I'm gonna make my next villian a wizard who wears TWO of these fuckers, but he's gonna enchant them to act as gloves of storing. When he throws them, whatever they are storing appears in his hands. When they return, they "swallow up" what he was holding. So he throws them when he wants to cast a spell. Two free attacks a round! Maybe I'll do the multiple castings of Persistent Cloud of knives trick too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 26, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
Quote from: Captnq
I'm gonna make my next villian a wizard who wears TWO of these fuckers, but he's gonna enchant them to act as gloves of storing. When he throws them, whatever they are storing appears in his hands. When they return, they "swallow up" what he was holding. So he throws them when he wants to cast a spell. Two free attacks a round! Maybe I'll do the multiple castings of Persistent Cloud of knives trick too.
That sounds awesome  :clap

I am sure it has been mentioned, but ring of energy immunity seems to be the most overpriced item ever. Even by the DMG guidelines for custom magic items with the use of Energy Immunity spell it costs 66k rather than 240k. Also, there are other cheaper ways to get energy immunity...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on June 27, 2013, 06:47:26 AM
Exit Wound +2 bonus - COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5)
Goes THROUGH your target to hit the target behind him USING THE SAME TO HIT ROLL AS THE FIRST. Example: Okay, Str 16, +1 Throwing/Distance/Exit Wound/Teleporting Heavy Pick I’m holding with two hands. I got a BAB: 7 as a cleric. I power attack for +7 which I add to my +3 for Str and since it’s with two hands, my damage is now 1d6+1d6+16. I cast surge of fortune a few rounds before, so now I get to throw it. I take the auto 20 and get lucky for a confirmed critical. Let’s say damage is a nice average 23. Now the critical is x4 for 92 points of damage to everyone in a straight line for 100 feet. Next round it appears in my hand and I look at the next row of targets, “Sorry to -pick- on you.”

I know your wrote the book on WSA's and all but technically each subsequent to-hit roll is at a -4, as each target gets a cumulative +4 to AC per target it passes through.

Whilst Surge of Fortune fixes this for hitting, for critical confirmation it gets to the point where you won't confirm after the first few hits... unless you use a spell to confirm criticals automatically. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWeapon.htm)

It's a shame bless weapon doesn't work with vorpal... 100ft line of beheading shields could get funny. If you find a way to surge of fortune, auto-confirm crits (plenty of ways) and get Vorpal too... lol.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 27, 2013, 07:43:00 AM
Or Flesh Ring of Scorn. Any other ways?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 27, 2013, 02:14:16 PM
What are the "easier" ways to get energy immunity? I'm making a gestalt artificer / engineer (home brewed class using Inventions, somewhat like the 3-Ed-party Pathfinder's Tinker), and need him to be untouchable.

Other good things for defense would be helpful, too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 27, 2013, 02:19:45 PM
Neh-infinite Chronocharms of AC (each needs a +1 bonus of a different type from the others of the same name). This also works on psionatrices (sp?)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 27, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
Huh. Yeah, that'll get my AC up there. I've already got a few miss chances, too. So I should be good on that front... But energy immunity? Anyone know the "cheaper" way they were talking about?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 27, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
Shriver from FCII costs 30k and grants Regeneration and when combined with a Wand of Favored of the Martyr (SpC) for immunity to Non-Lethal it makes you immune to all forms of damage that isn't both Good & Chaotic. Atypically, Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire damage lacks such additions...

That work for you?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 27, 2013, 03:17:05 PM
Shriver from FCII costs 30k and grants Regeneration and when combined with a Wand of Favored of the Martyr (SpC) for immunity to Non-Lethal it makes you immune to all forms of damage that isn't both Good & Chaotic. Atypically, Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire damage lacks such additions...

That work for you?
Hopefully. I'll also be searching for things I can flat-up craft (the 30k for a location is worth like 400k of items)... Any help on that front?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 27, 2013, 03:59:51 PM
Huh. Yeah, that'll get my AC up there. I've already got a few miss chances, too. So I should be good on that front... But energy immunity? Anyone know the "cheaper" way they were talking about?
Pay a caster to cast Mantle of Icy Soul and Mantle of Fiery Spirit. Instantaneous duration means dispels are not a threat. You can also cast stone body, which, among other handy defenses, grants immunity to electricity. An Artificer should't have problems persisting it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 27, 2013, 04:02:36 PM
Huh. Yeah, that'll get my AC up there. I've already got a few miss chances, too. So I should be good on that front... But energy immunity? Anyone know the "cheaper" way they were talking about?
Pay a caster to cast Mantle of Icy Soul and Mantle of Fiery Spirit. Instantaneous duration means dispels are not a threat. You can also cast stone body, which, among other handy defenses, grants immunity to electricity. An Artificer should't have problems persisting it.
Cool, that gets Fire, Cold, and Electricity. Leaves Acid, Sonic, and Force (but I can just ask for the Pathfinder Ring of Forcefangs, though)... I don't know how to pick up acid and sonic immunity? Heh, thanks for the help though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 27, 2013, 04:14:55 PM
Shriver from FCII costs 30k and grants Regeneration and when combined with a Wand of Favored of the Martyr (SpC) for immunity to Non-Lethal it makes you immune to all forms of damage that isn't both Good & Chaotic. Atypically, Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire damage lacks such additions...

That work for you?
Hopefully. I'll also be searching for things I can flat-up craft (the 30k for a location is worth like 400k of items)... Any help on that front?
Dragon's Troll-Blooded or a Wand of Alter Self(troll) + Wand of Favored of the Martyr + Mantle of Fiery Spirit. Immune to all but Acid damage.

Scroll wise, you can make Persisted versions.
And mindful these are damage immunity combinations. A Barbarian hitting you in the face or the DM dropping a castle on oyu has little to no effect. It's a bit beyond simple Energy Immunity.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on June 27, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
Dragon's Troll-Blooded or a Wand of Alter Self(troll) + Wand of Favored of the Martyr + Mantle of Fiery Spirit. Immune to all but Acid damage.

Scroll wise, you can make Persisted versions.
And mindful these are damage immunity combinations. A Barbarian hitting you in the face or the DM dropping a castle on oyu has little to no effect. It's a bit beyond simple Energy Immunity.
[/quote]only problem with flat-up damage immunity combinations is that it's probably enough for the DM to just say "No, you can't do that." I think we also have a house rule that if tou're immune to no lethal, your regeneration just doesnt convert it. Hence why I'm looking for... Somewhat more tame ways to not just wrecked. Soulfire armor enhancement, for example. Cowl of Warding, for another.

Hence, not looking for damage immunity. Looking for energy immunity. If I /absolutely/ need something that won't die, I'll throw one of those combinations on a construct / automaton / cohort, and use them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 27, 2013, 05:05:13 PM
Minor schemas (Magic of Eberron, p122) can be made for spells up to 6th level, and you can use the spell in it once per day.  The energy immunity spell (Spell Compendium, p80) gives the target immunity to the selected energy type for 24 hours.  If you make 5 minor schemas of energy immunity, you can use them on yourself at the start of each day to gain immunity to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic damage.  The total market price for those is 132,000 gp. 

Combining this with previous ideas, you'll need fewer minor schemas.  If you play a lesser mechanitrix (Fiend Folio, p137 and Player’s Guide to Faerun, p191), you get electricity healing. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 27, 2013, 05:19:43 PM
Voidmind creature gets acid immunity, but at +3 LA, I don't think it solves the problem.

There are also rituals of the elements in Savage Species. The Mantle of Icy Soul is definitely cheaper, but I am not sure about Mantle of the Fiery Spirit (it is actually quite strange that these spells are at different levels and have different costs). Unfortunately, they also impose +1 LA. Maybe if you can buy it off...

I guess minor schemas are your best bet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on June 27, 2013, 06:56:31 PM
Which versions of those spells are you looking at?  I can find drastically different versions of mantle of the icy soul in Far Corners of the World (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030124a), Frostburn, and Spell Compendium.  The only version of mantle of the fiery soul I can find is in Sandstorm. 

Also, it might be time to have a moderator split this discussion off into a separate thread.  We're 12 posts in now. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 27, 2013, 07:09:35 PM
Captnq - what's a "Man Pole" ?



edit --- can't believe I just did that.
I'll leave it up for comedic effect.
I am sooooo out of practice.
 :whistle
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 28, 2013, 01:44:17 AM
Changeling + Racial Emulation + Abaqua Spell Power (Races of Ansalon) ACF = +1 level for spells per day/known for your wizard class you have!!!!!

did someone say early entry?

Ambient Tempest PrC in Revised Bestiary of Krynn, a spontaneous caster advancer, allows you to change spells known weekly. But the best is 2nd level ability to decrease the spell level by 1 of a spell by reverse Extend/Empower/Widen Spell'ing it.

Animate Dead as a 2nd level spell?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on June 28, 2013, 03:46:54 AM
The domain power of the Mists domain from Ravenloft Player's Handbook has some pretty hefty benefits, especially for a low-mid level character:

Once per day, you may call on the shield of Ezra, a film of luminous mist that envelops
your body for 1 round per cleric level. The form of protection granted is determined by your alignment.
Lawful good: 25/magic damage reduction against metal weapons. Lawful neutral: 15/magic damage
reduction against all physical attacks. Neutral:+10 to all Fortitude and Reflex saves against damaging spells.
Lawful evil: +10 to all Will saves against mind-affecting spells and effects. This is a supernatural ability.

Presumably it's a standard action to activate.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 28, 2013, 08:21:52 AM
Animate Dead as a 2nd level spell?
Enter the PrC as a Death Master and make it a 1st level spell!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on June 28, 2013, 10:41:07 AM
Hah yeah!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nunkuruji on June 28, 2013, 05:15:20 PM
Feat: Child of the Earth, Kingdom of Kalamar Players Guide
1st level only, restricted to Dejy (humans)

Add Constitution modifier as a luck bonus to all saves


Pretty freakin ridic on a MoMF
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 28, 2013, 05:17:47 PM
That's like I.P. Proofing gold.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 29, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
I read a very old thread on some other forum (can't remember where), in which a person claimed that using Return to Nature (7th level Druid spell; Eberron Campaign Setting), you make any willing giant fine sized. Is that true? Does it stack because the duration is instantaneous? It would be awesome to play a half-giant and be fine sized (+1 LA and a bit gold).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on June 29, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
I read a very old thread on some other forum (can't remember where), in which a person claimed that using Return to Nature (7th level Druid spell; Eberron Campaign Setting), you make any willing giant fine sized. Is that true? Does it stack because the duration is instantaneous? It would be awesome to play a half-giant and be fine sized (+1 LA and a bit gold).
Quick answer. No.

Long answer? Return to Nature has an Instantaneous duration that hits Giants with a Fort Save or be shrunken in size.
"Giants subjected to this spell become smaller, as though affected by a reduce person spell (see page 269 of the Player’s Handbook). A successful Fortitude save negates this effect."
However, as affected by reduce Person Person entails several rules. Including Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reducePerson.htm).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Forumowicz on June 29, 2013, 04:29:06 PM
However, one could argue that since the duration is intsantaneous, the effect itself stops being magical. The act is magical, as it is a spell, but than the effect is nonmagical. It cannot be targeted with dispel magic or detected with detect magic. For example Wall of Stone is created with magic, but the effect (which the text of Reduce Person refers to) is a simple wall. Supposing the spell worked by checking if there are any magial effects reducing size before affecting its target, it would not be able to diffrentiate between a giant affected by the spell Return to Nature and not. Return to Nature leaves no traces of its existance on the giant in question. There is no mehcanical difference between a giant reduced this way in size or a giant that was born exceptionally small. TL;DR version: Return to Nature does not produce a magical effect.

I am not actually supporting this interpretation. I am just unconviced by either of the sides. Is there anything I am not aware of which proves one interpretation/invalidates the other?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 29, 2013, 10:26:10 PM
Here's a fun Ex ability: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20070711a&page=4)

Gas Mantle (Ex): An Usunag adds their Constitution modifier as a deflection bonus to AC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 30, 2013, 04:31:15 PM
Spirit Needle is a 6th-level wu jen spell. Make a ranged attack (non-touch) against a fey, elemental, incorporeal undead, astral projection, telthor, spirit folk or creature with the spirit subtype within Close range. On a successful hit it becomes immobilised for 1 round/level (SR is allowed, but no save). As long as it's immobilised it loses its Dex bonus to AC, takes a -4 penalty to AC, loses the defensive benefits of being incorporeal, and cannot use supernatural or spell-like abilities to transport it or "alter its substance or state" (the examples given are becoming gaseous and ethereal). Another creature can choose to free it as a standard action, but it can't do so itself.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on June 30, 2013, 04:50:54 PM
I remember mentioning that one back here. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=418.msg150320#msg150320)

Still, it is such an awesome spell...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on June 30, 2013, 04:55:42 PM
power repository shards (either ECS or MoE) allow you to have any power known from any list.
That cuts into your other power shards, though right?

And the Ambient Tempest has to go 3 deep while losing a caster level for the -1 spell level goodies. Still great.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on June 30, 2013, 08:15:12 PM
Mountain Ghosts (Dragon #348, p86) has the following exotic weapons:

Also these:
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on July 01, 2013, 02:43:11 AM
From my group's optimizer:

"
Use a metal bow (or metal-armed crossbow, such things are more common), with Kaorti Resin arrows, for fun...

Oh, wait. I meant an Iron "Great Crossbow" (exotic weapon, 18-20 / x2).
Let's take a two-level dip in Deepwood Sniper, shall we? That gives us +100% / +1
Now let's take 8 levels in Disciple of Dispater.... for +200% / +0
None of that stacks with Keen, but...
let's use Razorfeather Arrows. They're treated as keen, but they aren't (They're mundane). (This is the part I'm iffy on.), for +100% / +0
3* (1 + 1 + 2 + 1) = 15, for a crit range of 15-20 / x3; if we assume Razorfeather arrows can be made out of Kaorti Resin, we push it to 15-20 / x5. We can put five more levels into Deepwood Sniper for 15-20 / x6.
"

Hence, the largest crit range / multiplier I think is possible (against all enemies equally)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 01, 2013, 02:27:33 PM
From my group's optimizer:

"
Use a metal bow (or metal-armed crossbow, such things are more common), with Kaorti Resin arrows, for fun...

Oh, wait. I meant an Iron "Great Crossbow" (exotic weapon, 18-20 / x2).
Let's take a two-level dip in Deepwood Sniper, shall we? That gives us +100% / +1
Now let's take 8 levels in Disciple of Dispater.... for +200% / +0
None of that stacks with Keen, but...
let's use Razorfeather Arrows. They're treated as keen, but they aren't (They're mundane). (This is the part I'm iffy on.), for +100% / +0
3* (1 + 1 + 2 + 1) = 15, for a crit range of 15-20 / x3; if we assume Razorfeather arrows can be made out of Kaorti Resin, we push it to 15-20 / x5. We can put five more levels into Deepwood Sniper for 15-20 / x6.
"

Hence, the largest crit range / multiplier I think is possible (against all enemies equally)?

they are considered to have the keen weapon property, according to the source. even if it is non-magical in nature, it won't stack with anything that says it doesn't stack with the keen weapon property. otherwise, it is fine.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 01, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Something I found a little amusing:

Quote
Corrupt Arcane Studies
Type: General
Source: Ghostwalk

You have dabbled in strange magic that has increased your power but adversely affected your mind.
Prerequisite: Sorcerer or wizard level 3rd, nongood alignment.
Benefit: Add a +1 bonus to the DC for all sorcerer and wizard spells you cast. You get a +1 bonus on all caster level checks to overcome spell resistance with your sorcerer and wizard spells.
Special: Your magical research has taken its toll on your mind. When you acquire this feat, your Wisdom score is immediately reduced by 2 points. Restorative spells (such as restoration or greater restoration) do not reverse this Wisdom loss.Part of the damage to your mind has resulted in behavioral changes. You develop a fixation for dressing in black and gray clothing. If at least three-fourths of what you are clothed in is not black or gray, you lose the bonus to your DCs, but still suffer the reduction in Wisdom.You are often plagued by horrible nightmares. Every night, you must succeed on a Wisdom check (DC 10 + 1 per day since the last bout of nightmares) to stave off these dark visions. If you fail this check, you are unable to prepare arcane spells for 24 hours.

 :lol.

Also, I found an interesting feat:

Quote
Broken One's Sacrifice
( Champions of Valor, p. 28)
[General]
Your dedication to Ilmater's philosophy has given you the power to take attacks directed at others.

Prerequisite
WIS 13, member of the Broken Ones monk order,

Benefit
As an immediate action, you can intervene on behalf of an adjacent ally (of your size or smaller) who is under attack. When you activate this feat, you and the ally switch spaces. If there is not enough space for this to occur, you can't activate the feat. Then, you suffer the harmful effect as if you were the intended target; the ally is unaffected by it. In addition to the obvious harmful effect this has upon you, this action is a drain on your personal energy. Once the effect of the intervention is resolved, you become fatigued. You cannot use this feat if you are exhausted or if you are immune to fatigue. You can choose to activate this feat after the success or failure of the harmful effect is determined, but you must activate it before the extent of the effect is determined and/or applied to the ally.

Example: If an adjacent ally is attacked, you could wait until after the attack roll (and confi rmation roll, if the attack is a critical threat) is made to activate the feat, but you would have to activate it before damage is rolled. If the adjacent creature also benefi ts from a miss chance, you could wait until after that roll was made to activate the feat. Example: If an adjacent creature is within the area of a lightning bolt spell, you could wait until the creature rolls its saving throw (and checks its spell resistance, if any), but you would have to activate the feat before the spell's damage is rolled. If an adjacent creature is targeted by an attack that deals a fi xed amount of damage, such as a maximized magic missile spell, you would choose to activate this feat after the spell hit the target, but before damage was applied. By activating this feat, you give up any opportunity to avoid the harmful effect normally allowed by a saving throw, spell resistance, AC, or concealment. If the effect allows a saving throw or spell resistance, you automatically fail the save or spell resistance check. If the effect requires an attack roll, it automatically hits you (and if it scored a critical hit, it automatically scores a critical hit on you), even if you would normally benefi t from a miss chance against the attack. Any immunities or resistances you have apply normally; for example, if you are immune to critical hits, an attacker can't score a critical hit on you just because he scored one on the ally. If you can't physically interact with or manipulate objects (for instance, if you are incorporeal or in gaseous form, or if either you or the ally, but not both of you, are ethereal), you can't switch places with the ally and thus can't activate this feat. It should go without saying, but if you are incapable of taking an action (dazed, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, and so on), you can't use this feat.

Could be nice for a "tank" build".

Finally, something not powerful but kind of cool: A vampires blood drain ability applies whenever you pin a target. Therefore, you could use the telekinetic maneuver power and drain their blood from a distance. Use the half-vampire template if you want a playable version of this.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 01, 2013, 08:24:12 PM
The dimension leapMoE spell (Bard 2, Sor/Wiz 2) teleports you 10ft/caster level. If you have the Mark of Passage or Favored in House (Orien), the distance is based on character level instead. Have an artificer craft an item of at-will dimension leap at CL1. Optionally dip Blade of Orien to use it as a move action.

Finally, something not powerful but kind of cool: A vampires blood drain ability applies whenever you pin a target. Therefore, you could use the telekinetic maneuver power and drain their blood from a distance. Use the half-vampire template if you want a playable version of this.
In a similar vein (hur hur), an lv2 Bloodstorm Blade can use Setting Sun maneuvers at range, including the effects of Improved Trip. And when you use tornado throw... note that the end position of enemies is relative to you, not your weapon, allowing you to conserve movement speed.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 01, 2013, 08:58:07 PM
@123456789blaaa
or have a Shadowform Familiar? (Champions of Ruin) and they intercept for you
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 02, 2013, 05:38:45 AM
@123456789blaaa
or have a Shadowform Familiar? (Champions of Ruin) and they intercept for you

Where does it say that? as far as I can tell it's a normal (albeit incorporeal) familiar.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 02, 2013, 10:18:40 AM
Broken One's Sacrifice + incorporeal familiar = very good
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 02, 2013, 11:09:17 AM
Most of my familiars don't join Monk Orders / Monasteries.

Also if you read the entire feat
Quote
By activating this feat, you give up any opportunity to avoid the harmful effect normally allowed by a saving throw, spell resistance, AC, or concealment. If the effect allows a saving throw or spell resistance, you automatically fail the save or spell resistance check. If the effect requires an attack roll, it automatically hits you (and if it scored a critical hit, it automatically scores a critical hit on you), even if you would normally benefit from a miss chance against the attack. Any immunities or resistances you have apply normally; for example, if you are immune to critical hits, an attacker can't score a critical hit on you just because he scored one on the ally. If you can't physically interact with or manipulate objects (for instance, if you are incorporeal or in gaseous form, or if either you or the ally, but not both of you, are ethereal), you can't switch places with the ally and thus can't activate this feat. It should go without saying, but if you are incapable of taking an action (dazed, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, and so on), you can't use this feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 02, 2013, 08:07:11 PM
True... What about a diminutive swarm animal companion that was a reincarnated member of the org? :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on July 05, 2013, 08:14:51 AM
I have a good one, but it's from Savage Species, so may I be excused for any ridiculousness occurring:

Horseshoes of Flame: these little buggers grant an ordinary horse 90ft fly speed (good maneuverability), +1d4 fire damage to all hoof attacks, +2 Dex, +10 Int, +6 Cha. For 30,240gp, this is a complete steal.

"OK, now my horse is half as smart as myself, what about it? Why should I spend a fortune on this again?"
"Silly, it's not for your horse, it's for you!"
"What? You're trying to make me angry or what?"
"Look, you moron, you're a Wizard/Bard/Sorcerer/Beguiler/whatever with lots of ranks in UMD, right? Got any ideas how this one might be useful to you?"
"But, but... I'll look ridiculous!"
"What do you care? It's +10 Int, +6 Cha! And it makes you fly!"
"Well, you've convinced me. But how do I put them on?"
"That, my friend, is really simple. Let me just get mine old hammer and some nails...  :smirk"

 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 05, 2013, 08:18:02 AM
Except no spellcaster is an ordinary horse, unless horses have been lying for all these years.

EDIT: Derp missed the UMD part. So not Sorc and Wizard, then.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on July 05, 2013, 02:13:59 PM
Potion of Blood, from Kalamar: set your race to anything you like for purposes of items only.  Now use a Potion of Blood to become a horse.  You can wear the horseshoes!  Note: if anyone ever uses a magic item to detect your creature type, they get very confused.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 05, 2013, 02:26:42 PM
I have a good one, but it's from Savage Species, so may I be excused for any ridiculousness occurring:

Horseshoes of Flame: these little buggers grant an ordinary horse 90ft fly speed (good maneuverability), +1d4 fire damage to all hoof attacks, +2 Dex, +10 Int, +6 Cha. For 30,240gp, this is a complete steal.

So wait... hoof attacks? Is it a weapon? Because if it's a weapon, all you need is opposable (+1 Bonus) and you could wear them on your elbows and knees.

Damn. Now I have to consider if horseshoes are weapons.

Disturbing thought:
PONY GIRL - D20

Don't google it. Just... don't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 05, 2013, 02:41:50 PM
Improvised boomerang? :P

don't they last for a ridiculous amount of time, like 12 or 18hrs
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 05, 2013, 03:42:58 PM
Potion of Blood, from Kalamar: set your race to anything you like for purposes of items only.  Now use a Potion of Blood to become a horse.  You can wear the horseshoes!  Note: if anyone ever uses a magic item to detect your creature type, they get very confused.

JaronK


My kitty avatar's Perform (Sing) check dc 13:  " I Am Mister Ed !! "
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 05, 2013, 04:56:38 PM
Disturbing thought:
PONY GIRL - D20

Don't google it. Just... don't.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060401a
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on July 05, 2013, 06:28:26 PM
Potion of Blood, from Kalamar: set your race to anything you like for purposes of items only.  Now use a Potion of Blood to become a horse.  You can wear the horseshoes!  Note: if anyone ever uses a magic item to detect your creature type, they get very confused.

JaronK

Good stuff, this works perfectly! Although it'd still be rather painful to get to actually wear these things...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 05, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
Good stuff, this works perfectly! Although it'd still be rather painful to get to actually wear these things...

"What do you care? It's +10 Int, +6 Cha!"

So beautiful it hurts...


I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on July 07, 2013, 02:36:25 AM
From the Dragon Magazine Compendium I have found Spybuttons. Read below. Bolded for emphasis.

Several versions of these specially
designed buttons exist. They can be fancy or plain and
are made to blend in with the clothing they are sewn
on. To use a spy button, the wearer must rip it free from
the article of clothing to which it is attached as a free
action and throw it against a hard surface.
The most
common types of spy buttons are as follows.

I read this as ripping it off and throwing it are the same action, which is specified as *FREE*. However, others may read it differently, as specifying that the ripping but not the throwing is free. Your mileage, therefore, may vary. However, if your DM reads it as I do, then you have several free action utility actions. DC 15 Fort save Dazzle, Thunderstone,  and an "Impenetrable" cloud of black smoke in a 10ft area are the options specifically listed. Though with an approving DM the fluff suggests other variations exist, so you may be able to create your own.

As I said, it all comes down to the DM's reading. Both interpretations could be acceptable, and I am sure many DMs will rule only the ripping is free, but if you can convince them that the throwing is part of that action, this could be useful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 07, 2013, 05:52:02 PM
Sune's relic 'Ring of Firehair' is ridiculously powerful for a diplomancer.
It grants a +2 sacred bonus to Cha and increases any met npc's attitude towards just you by 1 step! Oh you're indifferent? Not you're helpful.

but this really shines when helpful become fanatics!

check out Drag#333 pg 54
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 07, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Kind of pricey (22k), but worth it if you can find a DM willing to allow it (or optimized diplomacy, for that matter :P ).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on July 08, 2013, 09:17:05 AM
Sune's relic 'Ring of Firehair' is ridiculously powerful for a diplomancer.
It grants a +2 sacred bonus to Cha and increases any met npc's attitude towards just you by 1 step! Oh you're indifferent? Not you're helpful.

but this really shines when helpful become fanatics!

check out Drag#333 pg 54
It also shines when hostile foes become unhelpful, and won't attack you. Sure, they'll still attack your friends, but as long as you don't take hostile actions (healing allies, buffing allies, summoning, ect.) they won't actually attack you.
Outfitting the party with a set would be expensive, but you'd be able to just ignore most combat encounters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 08, 2013, 03:50:14 PM
How would Invisible Spell work w the Ring? If they don't know you're casting at them, it won't spoil the better attitude?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 08, 2013, 05:18:03 PM
How would Invisible Spell work w the Ring? If they don't know you're casting at them, it won't spoil the better attitude?

Depends on the wording of the ability, I think.  If it's like Invisibililty, where "attacking" breaks the effect, then it won't matter whether they see the spell coming or not.  If it says something like "obviously hostile actions" break it, then you should be fine. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 08, 2013, 05:27:57 PM
Disturbing thought:
PONY GIRL - D20

Don't google it. Just... don't.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060401a

My aberration Pony , You can comb her hair Eye Stalks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on July 08, 2013, 05:42:53 PM
Ability Rip causes you to permanently lose a supernatural ability, which is normally a big problem, right? However, DR/magic or an alignment is a supernatural ability, and many spells and effects provide it temporarily. Just cast one of them (say, Protection From Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm), which also has a long enough duration to last through the casting) and give that up.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 08, 2013, 06:21:48 PM
Ability Rip causes you to permanently lose a supernatural ability, which is normally a big problem, right? However, DR/magic or an alignment is a supernatural ability, and many spells and effects provide it temporarily. Just cast one of them (say, Protection From Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm), which also has a long enough duration to last through the casting) and give that up.
Are there any Su drawbacks you can get rid of with this?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 08, 2013, 06:42:57 PM
Ability Rip causes you to permanently lose a supernatural ability, which is normally a big problem, right? However, DR/magic or an alignment is a supernatural ability, and many spells and effects provide it temporarily. Just cast one of them (say, Protection From Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm), which also has a long enough duration to last through the casting) and give that up.
Are there any Su drawbacks you can get rid of with this?

The Elder Evil Shothragot has FoM permanently on as a Su ability. If you want to bind it you'll need to get rid of that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 08, 2013, 07:17:34 PM
Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a natural lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. If the victim’s size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope the victim cannot contract lycanthropy from that lycanthrope. Afflicted lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy.


Yup. Become a Lycanthrope that doesn't have to worry about turning people into more Lycanthropes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Quillwraith on July 09, 2013, 10:36:24 AM
Lycanthrope lycanthropy lycanthrope lycanthrope.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 09, 2013, 07:06:54 PM
Sun Soul Monk (http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-valor--28/sun-soul-monk--2836/)
Originally listed simply for it's +1 cold damage property in Class Boosters, a second read through reveals;

Quote
Prerequisite
member of the Sun Soul monk order (see page 25 of the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting and page 41 of City of Splendors: Waterdeep), Monk 6th,

Benefit
This feat's benefit depends on the patron deity of the monastery where you studied.

Lathander: You can channel your ki to turn an undead creature. Once per day you can choose to imbue a single unarmed strike with ki; this decision must be made before the attack roll is made. If you hit an undead creature with this attack, it is turned unless it succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Wis modifier). If the undead creature has turn resistance, it can add this as a bonus on its save. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fist to use this feat. If you have the turn undead class feature, you can expend a turn undead attempt to use this feat.

Selane: Your unarmed strikes deal an extra 1 point of cold damage and count as silvered weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. When in moonlight or starlight, treat your monk level as three levels higher for the purpose of determining your unarmored speed bonus.

Sune: Your combat style is fascinating to watch. Once per day as a standard action, you can perform a maneuver that fascinates a single creature within 30 feet that can see you (Will negates; save DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + Cha modifier). Creatures of a type different from your gain a +4 bonus on the save. This supernatural effect lasts for 1 round. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fist to use this feat.
Recall that Destroying Undead, Rebuking, and Commanding Undead are internal rules of Turn Undead. So with this Feat a Monk can Rebuke/Command Deathless creatures.

But wait! While the 3.0 FR book notes the Sun Soul Monks has being Good/Neutral aligned in a sidebar, the 3.5 City of Splendors book sets forth actual requirements. The requirement? 20 hours of charitable work and 2 Ranks in either Jump or Tumble. Which means a cleaver Evil aligned PC could join the group to Rebuke/Command Undead. He should probably do this in disguise, just saying.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 09, 2013, 07:35:43 PM
Sun Soul Monk (http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-valor--28/sun-soul-monk--2836/)
Originally listed simply for it's +1 cold damage property in Class Boosters, a second read through reveals;

Quote
Prerequisite
member of the Sun Soul monk order (see page 25 of the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting and page 41 of City of Splendors: Waterdeep), Monk 6th,

Benefit
This feat's benefit depends on the patron deity of the monastery where you studied.

Lathander: You can channel your ki to turn an undead creature. Once per day you can choose to imbue a single unarmed strike with ki; this decision must be made before the attack roll is made. If you hit an undead creature with this attack, it is turned unless it succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Wis modifier). If the undead creature has turn resistance, it can add this as a bonus on its save. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fist to use this feat. If you have the turn undead class feature, you can expend a turn undead attempt to use this feat.

Selane: Your unarmed strikes deal an extra 1 point of cold damage and count as silvered weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. When in moonlight or starlight, treat your monk level as three levels higher for the purpose of determining your unarmored speed bonus.

Sune: Your combat style is fascinating to watch. Once per day as a standard action, you can perform a maneuver that fascinates a single creature within 30 feet that can see you (Will negates; save DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + Cha modifier). Creatures of a type different from your gain a +4 bonus on the save. This supernatural effect lasts for 1 round. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fist to use this feat.
Recall that Destroying Undead, Rebuking, and Commanding Undead are internal rules of Turn Undead. So with this Feat a Monk can Rebuke/Command Deathless creatures.

But wait! While the 3.0 FR book notes the Sun Soul Monks has being Good/Neutral aligned in a sidebar, the 3.5 City of Splendors book sets forth actual requirements. The requirement? 20 hours of charitable work and 2 Ranks in either Jump or Tumble. Which means a cleaver Evil aligned PC could join the group to Rebuke/Command Undead. He should probably do this in disguise, just saying.

I think extrapolating the turning effect beyond what is specifically stated is incorrect.  "Turned" is a defined condition according to PHB pg 314.  "Turned: Affected by a turn undead attempt. Turned undead flee for 10 rounds (1 minute) by the best and fastest means available to them. If they cannot flee, they cower."  The Sun Soul Monk feat only applies the Turned condition, not Rebuked, Commanded, or Destroyed. 
Deathless would still be Turned, because Sun Soul Monks are not clerics, so the part in the Deathless description that says "Evil clerics can turn or destroy deathless creatures as good
clerics turn or destroy undead" does not apply to them. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 09, 2013, 08:53:05 PM
Oooh, didn't know "Turned" was a status condition as defined by the PHB. I was checking the actual Turn Undead rules which I'd think hold priority over a generalized list status conditions, or anywhere else I didn't care to check.
(click to show/hide)
But you're right. RAI the Feat can only inflect the "turned" status seems clear enough.

Maybe the TO side can make usage of this. A Cleric that burns all of his Turn Undeads and Persist, so he uses Stunning Fist to Turn Undead by punching evil in the face. He'd have the Wisdom for it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 09, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
It's interesting to have a way to apply the turned condition that isn't limited by hit dice.  Are there any rider effects that can be added onto turned? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 09, 2013, 11:39:44 PM
No such thing as Turned, and what is Rout?

Quote from: Minatures Handbook, p.143 - Routing
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 09, 2013, 11:59:59 PM
Found this in Sword and Fist.  Could be useful in grapple builds. 
Quote from:  Sword and Fist pg 62
At the DM's option, creatures with more than two arms can get a bonus to grappling checks when they wrestle an opponent with their arms (The bonus would not apply, for example, to a marilith's constrict attack.).  This bonus is +4 per extra pair of arms - so a marilith would get +8 (in addition to its size modifier), while a xill or mutant sahuagin would gain a +4 bonus.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 10, 2013, 12:18:39 AM
Found this in Sword and Fist.  Could be useful in grapple builds. 
Quote from:  Sword and Fist pg 62
At the DM's option, creatures with more than two arms can get a bonus to grappling checks when they wrestle an opponent with their arms (The bonus would not apply, for example, to a marilith's constrict attack.).  This bonus is +4 per extra pair of arms - so a marilith would get +8 (in addition to its size modifier), while a xill or mutant sahuagin would gain a +4 bonus.

Not exactly unknown (it's in SS, and I've mentioned the benefit several times in reference to Totemist Grappler builds as a free +4 on top of Girallon Arms).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 10, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
Not exactly unknown (it's in SS, and I've mentioned the benefit several times in reference to Totemist Grappler builds as a free +4 on top of Girallon Arms).

Oh, really? Where is it in SS, and does it get rid of the "At the DM's option" language?
I was pretty sure I'd heard about this rule somewhere before, but didn't know where to find it - and I suspected others didn't either, which is why I posted it here.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 10, 2013, 07:02:16 AM
Spider Eaters  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm)lay their eggs inside a paralysed host which then take 6 weeks to hatch, eating the host from the inside out.

They achieve this because their poison paralyses for 1d8+5 weeks. That's a long time for something that can paralyse and works in an antimagic sphere/zone.

I'd love to see this poison in the hands of a Black Dog... empowered puts it up to a potential 17 weeks...

Also by RAW you can buy an egg for 2000gp or buy a young spider eater for 3000gp
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 10, 2013, 08:28:31 AM
That is utterly insane.

A nice little combo: Divine Defiance on a build with at least one level of Archmage (to grab Master of Counterspelling).

As an immediate action, spend one turning attempt to counter any spell that you could counter normally; if it was targeting you, the caster gets smacked instead.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 10, 2013, 10:46:20 AM
Spider Eaters  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm)lay their eggs inside a paralysed host which then take 6 weeks to hatch, eating the host from the inside out.

They achieve this because their poison paralyses for 1d8+5 weeks. That's a long time for something that can paralyse and works in an antimagic sphere/zone.

I'd love to see this poison in the hands of a Black Dog... empowered puts it up to a potential 17 weeks...

Also by RAW you can buy an egg for 2000gp or buy a young spider eater for 3000gp

maximize, empower, and extend it with a athasian bard and master of poisons. oh, and boost the dc too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 10, 2013, 10:55:12 AM
I just found a lovely 4th level Paladin spell.

Seek Eternal Rest (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/seek-eternal-rest--1622/) causes your Paladin level to count as two higher for the purposes of Turn Undead.

I'm sure uses can be found for this...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 10, 2013, 12:36:44 PM
It stats Paladin level so it's worthless in the hands of a Cleric and with it you're still behind the Cleric. To someone who isn't a Cleric or Paladin, friendly reminder null+2 is still nothing. Nor is this effect unique, I've got a dozen Cleric friendly effective level boosts listed over in Class Boosters.

However I did add it to the Paladin section. so I managed to find a use for it. :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 10, 2013, 12:54:45 PM
There is a feat that lets Paladins turn as Clerics of their class level; I can't remember the name, but it does exist.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 10, 2013, 02:04:55 PM
Not exactly unknown (it's in SS, and I've mentioned the benefit several times in reference to Totemist Grappler builds as a free +4 on top of Girallon Arms).

Oh, really? Where is it in SS, and does it get rid of the "At the DM's option" language?
I was pretty sure I'd heard about this rule somewhere before, but didn't know where to find it - and I suspected others didn't either, which is why I posted it here.

Hmm, seems I was mistaken. The rules about multiple arms in SS are for increasing damage with a multi-handed weapon (specifically ones designed for creatures with more than 2 arms).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 10, 2013, 02:28:46 PM
Spider Eaters  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm)lay their eggs inside a paralysed host which then take 6 weeks to hatch, eating the host from the inside out.

They achieve this because their poison paralyses for 1d8+5 weeks. That's a long time for something that can paralyse and works in an antimagic sphere/zone.

I'd love to see this poison in the hands of a Black Dog... empowered puts it up to a potential 17 weeks...

Also by RAW you can buy an egg for 2000gp or buy a young spider eater for 3000gp

maximize, empower, and extend it with a athasian bard and master of poisons. oh, and boost the dc too.

and Poisoner in Dr312
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on July 11, 2013, 02:32:34 AM
Spider Eaters  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm)lay their eggs inside a paralysed host which then take 6 weeks to hatch, eating the host from the inside out.

They achieve this because their poison paralyses for 1d8+5 weeks. That's a long time for something that can paralyse and works in an antimagic sphere/zone.

I'd love to see this poison in the hands of a Black Dog... empowered puts it up to a potential 17 weeks...

Also by RAW you can buy an egg for 2000gp or buy a young spider eater for 3000gp
Where do Spider Eaters find hosts that can survive 6 weeks without food and water?  I think anything they could poison would fail the Con checks long before then.   :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: kitep on July 11, 2013, 05:00:55 AM
I almost posted the same thing.  Then I realized that the host does not need to survive.  Even dead, it still provides food for the young'uns.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on July 11, 2013, 06:56:11 AM
Sure, which then beggars the obvious question: Why does the poison need such an absurd duration?   :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 11, 2013, 09:30:58 AM
Sure, which then beggars the obvious question: Why does the poison need such an absurd duration?   :banghead

Ah Simple,

it's so the DM can set a race against the clock (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RaceAgainstTheClock) plot.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 11, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
Spider Eaters  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/spiderEater.htm)lay their eggs inside a paralysed host which then take 6 weeks to hatch, eating the host from the inside out.

They achieve this because their poison paralyses for 1d8+5 weeks. That's a long time for something that can paralyse and works in an antimagic sphere/zone.

I'd love to see this poison in the hands of a Black Dog... empowered puts it up to a potential 17 weeks...

Also by RAW you can buy an egg for 2000gp or buy a young spider eater for 3000gp
Where do Spider Eaters find hosts that can survive 6 weeks without food and water?  I think anything they could poison would fail the Con checks long before then.   :banghead

They seem to be based on RL Spider Wasps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_wasp#Life_cycle_and_diet). From the link: "As the larva feeds on its host, it saves the vital organs, such as the heart and central nervous system, for last. By waiting until the final larval instar, it ensures the spider will not decompose before the larva has fully developed.[15]"

Why does the spider survive so long without food or water? They are induced into an hibernation-like state, where every organ works at minimum capacity. As the larva eats the insides, the spider starts using less and less energy to maintain it's ever consumed body, until eventually it dies, and the larva consumes the vital organs and spins it's cocoon for the last morphing.

Pretty freaking insane. Oh, they also have one of the most painful stings of the entire animal kingdom.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on July 11, 2013, 12:12:13 PM
spider eater victim survival

ring of sustenance and races that dont eat (undead, warforged)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 11, 2013, 01:45:51 PM
The core rules don't actually allow anyone to die from starvation or thirst. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8638.5)  Even with the Rules Compendium version, you can get pedantic and say that you never start to take lethal damage from starvation or thirst, because that only happens after you fall unconscious from nonlethal damage caused by starvation or thirst, which can't happen, because you're already unconscious from the poison. 
Title: EGGSHELL GRENADE, DUST
Post by: Captnq on July 11, 2013, 01:53:04 PM
EGGSHELL GRENADE, DUST
(click to show/hide)
Editor: Poof! Blind attacks are nasty, the problem is having the item last long enough to use it. Fixed with extra-dimensional storage. The save sucks, but read it carefully. The main target doesn’t get a save, only the splash targets. No save touch attack blindness for 1d4 rounds. Awesome. Just Awesome.
Editor (Energy Damage): The two types of energy damage to put on something like this is fire and frost. They simply have the best spread of stackable WSAs. If you are going with only official WSAs, stick with fire. If your DM allows extrapolated WSAs from specific weapons, I recommend frost. I speak off The Frost Shard. Combining Frost shard, frost, and energy aura, you can put +6d6 damage into your grenade for 1,376 gp for one. Not bad for a touch attack. It gets cheaper if you mix and match, but blindness and a frozen face are rather impressive for a sneak attack.
Editor (WSAs): Assassination is the obvious choice. You can coat this sucker with contact poison (it does not cause injury, so injury poison is out)  and whip it in someone’s face. Make sure to add virulent, so that the secondary effects kick in after 5 rounds. is a good choice for putting damage on this. True, it’s only +1d4, but it works with the touch attack. Then you can stack on other WSAs that require you to inflict damage. Strength Sapping comes to mind for the half speed and Dex/Str debuff. Clouting is also a weird choice, but when you blind the target, you would also drive him back 10 feet, possibly knock him down, and you also might stun him. A +3 bonus like that is usually expensive, but useful in ammunition. Dismisser banishes a foe on a touch attack and that +3 cost is much easier to swallow in ammo. If you fail to dismiss, they are still blind. Hideaway is a weird choice but it would fold and egg up to something you could put on a ring. Impedance is one of those WSAs I never use, but could work well with this to screw up a magic user. Forcing spellcraft checks is usually a trivial annoyance, but in ammunition, it’s not that expensive. Revealing will surround the target in faerie fire for a round. Combine this with seeking and as long as you know what square the target is in, an invisible enemy will be hit. Swarmstrike will allow you to blind an entire swarm in one shot. Torturous stuns for one round, but upgrade to the improved version for the better save DC.
Editor (Exit Wound): What happens when you buy this on something that clearly was never intended to go through people? The answer is, everyone in a line gets blinded and it does 1d6 points of damage to each target. Scary.
Editor (Explosive): Not a big fan of explosive, but for ammunition, this works. However, where the real synergy occurs is when you add in flying. Basically, you make a flying, suicidal, blinding exploding egg. It solves the problem of wondering if it’ll break open when you fall down a flight of stairs, and since they are a touch attack, it don’t matter that they attack as animate objects. They follow orders about as well as an animated skeleton, so you could have four or five of these orbiting your head and people will just think they are weird ioun stones. Then they fly off, slam into someone, then explode for 2d4 damage, blind the target, and if they miss, there’s still a chance for blinding everyone in the explosion if they fail the fortitude save.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 11, 2013, 05:07:44 PM
Merciful eggs are a great weapon for Vow of Nonviolence/Peace dudes

Great Dislocator eggs... Oh damn, you're blind and stuck in Baator!
Nine-lives Stealer eggs... Cheaper Vorpal weapon
Egg of Puncturing... Blind + 1d6 Con damage
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 11, 2013, 09:24:37 PM
Oh holy shit, Permeable Form and Whispercast are amazing.

Quote
Permeable Form
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 3
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

By altering the essential nature of the matter composing your body, you make yourself incorporeal for a brief time. While incorporeal, you can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, you have a 50% chance to ignore damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). You can enter or pass through solid objects as described under the incorporeal subtype on page 310 of the Monster Manual.

You cannot attack while in this state, but you can perform other actions as your incorporeal nature allows.

Quote
Whispercast
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Swift
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

The next spell you cast can be cast as a purely mental action, provided that it is of 5th level or lower and that you can whisper. It requires no somatic or material components, unless that spell normally requires a focus or expensive material component (any component worth more than 1gp). If the spell does require a focus or an expensive material component, you can still whispercast it as long as you have the focus or expensive component on your person—the magic of whispercast causes the focus to be used or the expensive component to be consumed normally, without you having to manipulate it.

If you do not cast a second spell while whispercast is in effect, you gain no benefit from casting whispercast.

Those spells are perfect for wands, and good spells to consider in general. Source: Lords of Madness.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: DavidWL on July 11, 2013, 10:32:35 PM
Oh holy shit, Permeable Form and Whispercast are amazing.

Quote
Permeable Form
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 3
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

By altering the essential nature of the matter composing your body, you make yourself incorporeal for a brief time. While incorporeal, you can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, you have a 50% chance to ignore damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). You can enter or pass through solid objects as described under the incorporeal subtype on page 310 of the Monster Manual.

You cannot attack while in this state, but you can perform other actions as your incorporeal nature allows.

Quote
Whispercast
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Swift
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

The next spell you cast can be cast as a purely mental action, provided that it is of 5th level or lower and that you can whisper. It requires no somatic or material components, unless that spell normally requires a focus or expensive material component (any component worth more than 1gp). If the spell does require a focus or an expensive material component, you can still whispercast it as long as you have the focus or expensive component on your person—the magic of whispercast causes the focus to be used or the expensive component to be consumed normally, without you having to manipulate it.

If you do not cast a second spell while whispercast is in effect, you gain no benefit from casting whispercast.

Those spells are perfect for wands, and good spells to consider in general. Source: Lords of Madness.

One could persist permeable form.

Cast wispercast as a stilled spell (3rd level slot), and then you can still/silent any spell at the cost of a swift action and a 3rd level slot.

Best,
David
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 11, 2013, 10:50:17 PM
Cast wispercast as a stilled spell (3rd level slot), and then you can still/silent any spell at the cost of a swift action and a 3rd level slot.

Best,
David
You mean cast Whispercast as a Silent Spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 13, 2013, 12:36:28 AM
Social Recovery skill trick
(click to show/hide)

plus

Glibness (+30 to Bluff checks) makes it trivially easily to totally break the game using diplomacy...

Yes, I know that cat was out of the bag a long time ago, but it typically required a pretty significant investment in resources. With this, any 7th level bard could do it with nothing more than a single spell known and a few skill points...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: WeMustBeMAD on July 13, 2013, 12:52:03 AM
I found the Icesinger (Dragon 314) whose first level ability is Haunting Lament, which works like the bard's fascinate ability, but it affects everyone in a 90' radius and they don't even have to see him. Couple that with a Shell of Amplification that lets you use fascinate in a 200' radius (Dragon Comp.), and you can fascinate everyone in the village square. And if you're a high enough bard or took some Heartfire Fanner levels, you can then mass suggest the entire village that their children have all been possessed by demons.


Hilarity ensues.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on July 13, 2013, 01:53:46 AM
Social Recovery skill trick
(click to show/hide)

plus

Glibness (+30 to Bluff checks) makes it trivially easily to totally break the game using diplomacy...

Yes, I know that cat was out of the bag a long time ago, but it typically required a pretty significant investment in resources. With this, any 7th level bard could do it with nothing more than a single spell known and a few skill points...

Social Recovery only improves the NPC's attitude by a maximum of 1 step, so no making fanatics out of your enemies. Also, Glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm) only applies to "Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words", and it explicitly doesn't apply to any other uses of the skill.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 13, 2013, 07:49:07 AM
Two missing feats from the Dragonshard articles - Death Curse and Hideous Strength (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19782226/?pg=last)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 13, 2013, 10:19:34 AM
Speaking of Skill Tricks, don't forget Nimble Charge.
Quote
Nimble Charge [Movement]
You can run across treacherous surfaces with ease.
Prerequisite: Balance 5 ranks.
Benefit: You can run or charge across a difficult surface without needing to make a Balance check (PH 67).
"Difficult Surface" doesn't exist in the rules (d. terrain does, not d. surface), it is simply a header on one of the balance tables.
The Epic usage of the skill merges both "Narrow" & "Difficult Surface" together as it expands the skill for it's single table for a nice touch of ambiguity.
A cloud certainly isn't "narrow" either....

[/munchkinnery for humor]
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 13, 2013, 01:25:52 PM
Here's a fun one:

Take the Silver Tongue (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silver_Tongue) feat.

Don't take any ranks in Diplomacy, only use Rushed checks, and find as many sources of penalties to Diplomacy as you can.

Proceed to, over the course of about 5 rounds of getting a negative check, make someone's Helpful friend Hostile towards them.  :D

This was originally part of a theme build I was planning as an NPC (really, really annoying princess that thought the players were kidnapping her, and so "helped" the opposing side. It sadly fell through because of wording.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 13, 2013, 05:02:09 PM
Social Recovery skill trick
(click to show/hide)

plus

Glibness (+30 to Bluff checks) makes it trivially easily to totally break the game using diplomacy...

Yes, I know that cat was out of the bag a long time ago, but it typically required a pretty significant investment in resources. With this, any 7th level bard could do it with nothing more than a single spell known and a few skill points...

Social Recovery only improves the NPC's attitude by a maximum of 1 step, so no making fanatics out of your enemies. Also, Glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm) only applies to "Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words", and it explicitly doesn't apply to any other uses of the skill.
Damn you Garryl, and your reading comprehension skills, for ruining all my fun.  :-\
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 13, 2013, 05:23:38 PM
Here's a fun one:

Take the Silver Tongue (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silver_Tongue) feat.

Don't take any ranks in Diplomacy, only use Rushed checks, and find as many sources of penalties to Diplomacy as you can.

Proceed to, over the course of about 5 rounds of getting a negative check, make someone's Helpful friend Hostile towards them.  :D

This was originally part of a theme build I was planning as an NPC (really, really annoying princess that thought the players were kidnapping her, and so "helped" the opposing side. It sadly fell through because of wording.)

Niiiiiice  :clap. This reminds me of using the Power Surge feat to apply metabreath feats to the Dragonfire Adepts breath weapon. It's turning a disadvantage into an advantage.

And really great flavor to boot  :cool.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 13, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  :twitch. I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  :evillaugh.

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on July 13, 2013, 06:27:10 PM
Here's a fun one:

Take the Silver Tongue (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silver_Tongue) feat.

Don't take any ranks in Diplomacy, only use Rushed checks, and find as many sources of penalties to Diplomacy as you can.

Proceed to, over the course of about 5 rounds of getting a negative check, make someone's Helpful friend Hostile towards them.  :D

This was originally part of a theme build I was planning as an NPC (really, really annoying princess that thought the players were kidnapping her, and so "helped" the opposing side. It sadly fell through because of wording.)
I actually had a character idea based on using this.
The Idea used the slave rules to buy a warforged juggernaut to follow you around, and you order it to attack by using rushed diplomacy to make it hostile to the target, while quoting the little sisters from bioshock. Ideally, you'd want to find a way to apply a massive penalty to your own check, so you can also actually use diplomacy normally too.
Now, if anyone knows how to get a massive penalty on skill checks with an easy toggle on/off switch, then it gets truly outrageous.

Source on Akadi?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 13, 2013, 06:35:21 PM
<snip>
Source on Akadi?

Faiths and Pantheons page 90.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 13, 2013, 07:46:32 PM
@Amechra.... Holy crap!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 13, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
It was originally layered on a Marshal build, where the goal was tanking Charisma, using a... generous interpretation of the "Charisma bonus (if any)" that the Marshal has.

After all, as far as I can see, Charisma bonus does not have a unique definition, and can be taken as a synonym of Charisma modifier.

She used Inspire Charisma to give herself a +Cha mod penalty on Charisma checks.

I also was considering stacking on Vow of Peace, just so that her "allies" took penalties for killing things.

I'm kinda sad that none of the other Diplomacy feats do anything fun if you fail them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 13, 2013, 10:12:01 PM
Yeah, that's a very loose interpretation, since the term "bonus" is defined as a positive number, due to "penalty" being defined for negative ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on July 13, 2013, 10:24:30 PM
Here's a fun one:

Take the Silver Tongue (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silver_Tongue) feat.

Don't take any ranks in Diplomacy, only use Rushed checks, and find as many sources of penalties to Diplomacy as you can.

Proceed to, over the course of about 5 rounds of getting a negative check, make someone's Helpful friend Hostile towards them.  :D

This was originally part of a theme build I was planning as an NPC (really, really annoying princess that thought the players were kidnapping her, and so "helped" the opposing side. It sadly fell through because of wording.)
I actually had a character idea based on using this.
The Idea used the slave rules to buy a warforged juggernaut to follow you around, and you order it to attack by using rushed diplomacy to make it hostile to the target, while quoting the little sisters from bioshock. Ideally, you'd want to find a way to apply a massive penalty to your own check, so you can also actually use diplomacy normally too.
Now, if anyone knows how to get a massive penalty on skill checks with an easy toggle on/off switch, then it gets truly outrageous.

Source on Akadi?

If you can get the DM to allow the ghost PC rules from Ghostwalk, which shouldn't be confused with the Ghost from the MM, you can snag a -10 to pretty much all Cha skills that involve interacting with others except Intimidate, to which you get a +10 bonus. There is an item for I think 10k that lets you turn this on and off. Also a feat tree that takes 2-3 feats to do the same.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on July 13, 2013, 10:25:31 PM
I'm a bit behind on this, but Whispercast turns a spell into a purely mental action... then you can cast it with your Schism'd mind.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on July 14, 2013, 01:47:07 AM
I'm a bit behind on this, but Whispercast turns a spell into a purely mental action... then you can cast it with your Schism'd mind.

If the Schism'd mind is capable of whispering, since whispercast says that you have to have the ability to whisper (not that you have to whisper, but have the ability to) Nevermind, not pertinent; each mind is still 'you'. You're just schizophrenic.

However, on reading schism (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionicPowersQtoW.html#schism), I conclude that the Combining Effects (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionic.html#combining-psionic-and-magical-effects), and the Psionic-Magic Transparency explanation below that, rules limit the spell levels that you can use. Perhaps I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on July 14, 2013, 11:48:52 AM
I'm a bit behind on this, but Whispercast turns a spell into a purely mental action... then you can cast it with your Schism'd mind.

If the Schism'd mind is capable of whispering, since whispercast says that you have to have the ability to whisper (not that you have to whisper, but have the ability to) Nevermind, not pertinent; each mind is still 'you'. You're just schizophrenic.

However, on reading schism (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionicPowersQtoW.html#schism), I conclude that the Combining Effects (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionic.html#combining-psionic-and-magical-effects), and the Psionic-Magic Transparency explanation below that, rules limit the spell levels that you can use. Perhaps I'm missing something.
I think that you casting Whispercast, then your Schism casting the actual spell, would let you schism-cast any spell allowable by Whispercast alone? Schism reduces ML, but I can't find anything in transparency that converts ML penalties/bonuses to CL, and I'm glad for that. (Bad, Practiced Manifester, bad!)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on July 14, 2013, 02:24:56 PM
I see your point. So Transparency is only for spell/power effects... Schism lets whispercast work for many spells. Additionally, I think that spells that have no components are also purely mental actions, so schism is very useful for Shadowcraft Mage's Silent Illusions.

So how would one get a persistent or recastable schism? Nemmind, I'll research then 'Ask a Question'.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 15, 2013, 12:16:53 AM
I see your point. So Transparency is only for spell/power effects... Schism lets whispercast work for many spells. Additionally, I think that spells that have no components are also purely mental actions, so schism is very useful for Shadowcraft Mage's Silent Illusions.

So how would one get a persistent or recastable schism? Nemmind, I'll research then 'Ask a Question'.
Reusable psionic tattoo (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2814.0)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on July 15, 2013, 08:29:53 AM
One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  :twitch. I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  :evillaugh.

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

Chauntea has a sheaf of grain. Yeah. Beating around the bush much?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 15, 2013, 10:20:10 AM
Does it deal nonlethal?  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 15, 2013, 11:25:35 AM
One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  :twitch. I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  :evillaugh.

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

Chauntea has a sheaf of grain. Yeah. Beating around the bush much?

perhaps sowing oats....
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 15, 2013, 05:26:47 PM
Social Recovery skill trick
(click to show/hide)

plus

Glibness (+30 to Bluff checks) makes it trivially easily to totally break the game using diplomacy...

Yes, I know that cat was out of the bag a long time ago, but it typically required a pretty significant investment in resources. With this, any 7th level bard could do it with nothing more than a single spell known and a few skill points...

Social Recovery only improves the NPC's attitude by a maximum of 1 step, so no making fanatics out of your enemies. Also, Glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm) only applies to "Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words", and it explicitly doesn't apply to any other uses of the skill.
Damn you Garryl, and your reading comprehension skills, for ruining all my fun.  :-\

Who's to say that Diplomacy does NOT involve "convince another of the truth of your words".
It might be --- though isn't mandatory --- that the truth of your words is a normal Diplomacy check.

Kind of a reroll effect for a failed Diplo check.


edit - y'know the Divine Mind gets mileage out of this / non-Cha focused build.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 15, 2013, 05:31:05 PM
I'm a bit behind on this, but Whispercast turns a spell into a purely mental action... then you can cast it with your Schism'd mind.

If the Schism'd mind is capable of whispering, since whispercast says that you have to have the ability to whisper (not that you have to whisper, but have the ability to) Nevermind, not pertinent; each mind is still 'you'. You're just schizophrenic.

However, on reading schism (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionicPowersQtoW.html#schism), I conclude that the Combining Effects (http://www.dndsrd.net/psionic.html#combining-psionic-and-magical-effects), and the Psionic-Magic Transparency explanation below that, rules limit the spell levels that you can use. Perhaps I'm missing something.
I think that you casting Whispercast, then your Schism casting the actual spell, would let you schism-cast any spell allowable by Whispercast alone? Schism reduces ML, but I can't find anything in transparency that converts ML penalties/bonuses to CL, and I'm glad for that. (Bad, Practiced Manifester, bad!)

Oh that's just not fair.  Psi never gets the good tricks.
Schism was one of those Psi-Is-Borkt powers , but
it's way (!!) better for this kind of caster.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 16, 2013, 09:50:00 AM
One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  :twitch. I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  :evillaugh.

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

I've always liked Ulutiu, for Harpoon access... a force harpoon sounds like a fun way to impale incorporeal creatures and limit their movements.

A favoured soul of Akadi would gain proficiency (whirlwind) and weapon focus (whirlwind)? would make sense if you were an air genasi maybe...

Loviatar's basically the god of self abuse flagellates...9 tailed barbed whip.

Apsu (pathfinder) but his favoured weapon is "breath weapon". Force Breath?

Ilsensine will get you tentacle.

Valarian gives unicorn horn.

Those are a bit weird on a favoured soul / spiritual weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 16, 2013, 11:11:16 AM
One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  :twitch. I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  :evillaugh.

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

I've always liked Ulutiu, for Harpoon access... a force harpoon sounds like a fun way to impale incorporeal creatures and limit their movements.

A favoured soul of Akadi would gain proficiency (whirlwind) and weapon focus (whirlwind)? would make sense if you were an air genasi maybe...

Loviatar's basically the god of self abuse flagellates...9 tailed barbed whip.

Apsu (pathfinder) but his favoured weapon is "breath weapon". Force Breath?

Ilsensine will get you tentacle.

Valarian gives unicorn horn.

Those are a bit weird on a favoured soul / spiritual weapon.

According to Lords of Madness the favored weapon of Ilsensine is an unarmed strike. We all know how weird those are...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 16, 2013, 12:15:34 PM
Well It's unarmed strike unless you're an illithid. It's a tentacle for most worshippers. (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ilsensine)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 16, 2013, 05:50:54 PM
Quote
the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.


from my previous post.... i'm curious if it bypasses some of the prerequisites? it seems to only need to satisfy the 'when its available to spellcasters'
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 16, 2013, 07:18:49 PM
Quote
the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...
Quote from: Bonus Feats
An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*
this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.
Powerful Build does not make you f*cking large. Pelor-effigy-Superman.

Not relevant? I beg to differ, same dumb argument. Let's quote the introduction sentence and ignore the rest of the entry as it defines exactly what it means and does.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 08:18:28 PM
Yeah, he's just mis-reading the sentence, trying to apply the word "every" to only the part about item creation feats, and not the part about Artificer.  It could easily be rewritten as "Every item creation feat an Artificer gains is at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters."  Great thing the rest of that paragraph clarifies exactly what the sentence means by stating exactly which feats and when.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2013, 08:48:10 PM
Yeah, he's just mis-reading the sentence, trying to apply the word "every" to only the part about item creation feats, and not the part about Artificer.  It could easily be rewritten as "Every item creation feat an Artificer gains is at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters."  Great thing the rest of that paragraph clarifies exactly what the sentence means by stating exactly which feats and when.

"Every" means "all the individual members of a set without exception."  If you're using it to refer only to the listed feats, you obviously have some exceptions.  In order to be accurately re-written into the form above without changing the meaning, the original sentence would have had to be "An Artificer gains each of these item creation feats..." or similar. 

If "Every" doesn't apply to the phrase "item creation feats", what does it apply to? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 09:50:58 PM
Simple, it applies to item creation feats that the artificer gains as bonus feats.  Every single one of those is gained at or near the level a spellcaster could gain it.  Just as the sentence can be read as saying.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2013, 09:57:30 PM
Simple, it applies to item creation feats that the artificer gains as bonus feats.  Every single one of those is gained at or near the level a spellcaster could gain it.  Just as the sentence can be read as saying.

You're putting in extra qualifiers that don't exist in the text.  You're reading it as "The Artificer gains every item creation feat [from this list] at or near the level it becomes available to spellcasters."  That's not what it says.  It says that Artificers gain every item creation feat, and then gives some examples.  Nowhere does it indicate that the list is exhaustive. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 10:10:06 PM
You are trying to read the sentence without context, as if it were an island.  But it's surrounded by context: The header (bonus feats), and the following sentences in the paragraph (which feats and at what level).  The word "every" is applying to when you get them, not how many you get.  And I checked, it is indeed correct, every one of those artificer bonus item creation feats is at or near when a spellcaster could pick them up.

Edit: Also, it does not follow up with "some examples".  It specifically says "He gets" followed by which feats and when.  No mention of them as examples or that there are any others.  That is an exhaustive list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2013, 10:54:41 PM
Please explain grammatically how the word "every" could apply to "level," or any other word or phrase besides "item creation feat," in this context. 

Quote from: Eberron Campaign Setting pg 32
Bonus Feat: An artificer gains every item creation feat as a bonus feat at or near the level at which it becomes available to spellcasters. He gets Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level. Brew Potion at 2nd level. Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level. Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th level. Craft Wand at 7th level. Craft Rod at 9th level, Craft Staff at 12th level. and Forge Ring at 14th level.
In addition, an artificer gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th. 16th, and 20th). For each of these bonus feats, the artificer must choose a metamagic feat or a feat from the following list: Attune Magic Weapon, Craft Construct (see the Monster Manual, page 303). Exceptional Artisan, Extra Rings. Extraordinary
Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Wand Mastery.

In what way does the list of enumerated feats, or anything else in that section contradict the idea that Artificers get every item creation feat that becomes available to spellcasters? 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 11:06:19 PM
In the next paragraph, where the artificer can choose other bonus feats from a list, Craft Construct is there.  It is an item creation feat, but it is not one that artificers automatically get.  And it's specifically mentioned in the Bonus Feats area.  Therefore "every" cannot apply to the number of feats, and therefore must apply to when the artificer gets the ones listed.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2013, 11:12:50 PM
In the next paragraph, where the artificer can choose other bonus feats from a list, Craft Construct is there.  It is an item creation feat, but it is not one that artificers automatically get.  And it's specifically mentioned in the Bonus Feats area.  Therefore "every" cannot apply to the number of feats, and therefore must apply to when the artificer gets the ones listed.

Nope.  I looked at that first, and Craft Construct does not have a CL prerequisite.  It doesn't have a level that it would normally become available for spellcasters, so an Artificer wouldn't get it from that first sentence.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 11:24:45 PM
Except that there are 2 feats with CL requirements as prerequisites.  Therefore, it must come no earlier than when you get those, because only once you have both Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Craft Wondrous Item does it become available to casters.  Ergo, it only becomes available to spellcasters at 5th level (the higher CL minimum prerequisite), if they already have both other feats.  Easily extrapolated, and fits within the definition you ascribe.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 16, 2013, 11:37:17 PM
Except that there are 2 feats with CL requirements as prerequisites.  Therefore, it must come no earlier than when you get those, because only once you have both Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Craft Wondrous Item does it become available to casters.  Ergo, it only becomes available to spellcasters at 5th level (the higher CL minimum prerequisite), if they already have both other feats.  Easily extrapolated, and fits within the definition you ascribe.

Spellcasters with both the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats are a small subset of "spellcasters".  Craft Construct never becomes available to "spellcasters" in general, only to ones with certain feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 16, 2013, 11:54:25 PM
Spellcasters with both the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats are a small subset of "spellcasters".  Craft Construct never becomes available to "spellcasters" in general, only to ones with certain feats.

It's still an item creation feat, as are the Artisan feats from ECS, which are also on the list of pickable bonus feats.  If "every" does not apply to them, then the artificer obviously can't get "every" item creation feat automatically (no CL prereq would default to class level 1, the minimum level anyone can have).  Ergo your interpretation that the first sentence means "every item creation feat" must be incorrect.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 17, 2013, 12:02:34 AM
My interpretation is that an Artificer gets every item creation feat that has only a caster level as a prerequisite, at or near the level he would meet that prerequisite if he were a straight caster.  Feats that do not have only a caster level prerequisite, he would not get - or rather, he gets them at or near level ((null value)).  He still can choose certain such feats according to the rules given in the second paragraph.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 17, 2013, 12:16:14 AM
Then why are you arguing so hard about the meaning of the word "every", if you aren't using that meaning for your own interpretation?

"Every" means "all the individual members of a set without exception."

You are making a huge exception that isn't stated anywhere in the sentence, or even the whole ability description, in question.  If you have to make exceptions to the very word you're arguing over to make it fit, while my interpretation does not, it seems pretty clear whose argument is falling apart.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 17, 2013, 12:24:39 AM
I am including every item creation feat in my interpretation. 

For any given Item Creation feat, the question isn't "Does the Artificer gain this feat," but rather "When does the Artificer gain this feat?"
For feats that do not have a CL requirement, the Artificer will gain them at or near level ((null value)). 
Some feats are never available to any given spellcaster, so they aren't given to the Artificer for free either. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 17, 2013, 12:41:47 AM
Yes, I already saw you are including every item creation feat, except ones with other feats as prerequisites and ones that do not have listed CL minimums.  Two exceptions.  And still choosing to ignore the fact that the very next sentence does not mention anything about the listed feats being examples and that it is a complete, closed list, with no wording to suggest there are other feats that are gained but not mentioned in it.

So it's either your interpretation, with two exceptions to the word "every" and ignoring extra clarifying context from the very next sentence, vs my interpretation which very nicely allows for "every" to apply without exception, as it fits with the extra context.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 17, 2013, 01:04:07 AM
I'm not excepting anything.  Artificers get every single item creation feat at or near the level it becomes available to spellcasters.  But, since it is impossible to determine at what level some feats become available to spellcasters, it is likewise impossible to determine at what level that feat becomes available to Artificers. 

The Artificer gets every item creation feat ever.  We just don't know when he gets some of them.  For those ones, it is assumed that he just has to take them with his normal feats (or one of his "bonus" bonus feats, if applicable). 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 17, 2013, 01:40:50 AM
Wow... That exploded!

take the psionic artifier's wording... It actually refers to the table provided, whereas the regular does not. Its RAI they both use the table, but since the normal has poor wording, it does not apply to just the table.

the way the normal artificer uses the table, is because ~1 of those listed is at a lower level than its CL would be. That is why there's a blurb about 'at or near'.

they don't give other examples for determining the 'near' part, so the unlisted feats gained are at the appropriate level. This does not allow you to use CL tricks to speed up this progression of feats, since its based off class level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 17, 2013, 06:41:32 PM
The Psymbiot feat in CP gives you a +2 untyped bonus on all ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws for as long as 2 conditions are met (you have to be psionically focused, and there needs to be another psionic character/creature with a ML of at least 3rd within 10ft of you, provided that creature isn't an astral construct or other entity shaped, crafted, or summoned by you).

Psicrystals are not summoned by you, and can gain a manifester level of 3rd any number of ways. While the feat is a purely numerical bonus, a +2 untyped bonus on saves and initiative checks is comparable to Improved Initiative (decent, if you have nothing better to do with your feats).
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on July 17, 2013, 07:34:34 PM
Congratulations the pedantic argument about artificers and sentence structure has changed the topic.  Make a new one if you want to keep arguing what the definition of is is.


Back to the fun.
Are there any psionic symbiotes?  Psicrystals might count as crafted by you, at least for some DMs, so wouldn't be useful for Psymbiot shenanigans.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on July 17, 2013, 09:41:23 PM
There are a few, but in general they're pretty underwhelming.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 17, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
The fiend ones are a little better
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 17, 2013, 09:50:29 PM
This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

Quote from: MMV -> God-Blooded Template -> "Creating God-Blooded Templates"
The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on July 17, 2013, 10:10:06 PM
Quote from: Forge of War p120
Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.
I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 17, 2013, 10:15:12 PM
Floater is listed as an option for a normal (non-improved) familiar in Dragon 319, on page 36.  It's statted out in Dungeon 110, on page 88. 

A floater can use detect psionics as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That on its own would be pretty neat. 

It also can use demoralize as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a possible -2 to the attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks of all of your enemies for the entire battle. 

Finally, it can use ego whip as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a 2nd-level power being made available to 1st-level characters, and you're not even spending your own actions to use it. 

A floater also has a fly speed with perfect maneuverability and a poisoned attack, because why not? 

Are there any psionic symbiotes? 

A critic lizard (Dungeon 110, p87) isn't a symbiot, but it is an animal that has a manifester level of 1.  It's also a common pet, tiny size, and CR 1/4, so It's not even weird to carry one around.  It doesn't list a market price though.  Also, you'd need to boost its manifester level by +2 in some fashion to use it to fuel the feat. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 17, 2013, 10:19:40 PM
Quote from: Forge of War p120
Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.
I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.

Lol that's gonna start the exact same argument Kethrian and I just had all over again.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on July 17, 2013, 10:36:31 PM
Don't make me use this!
(http://sr.photos1.fotosearch.com/bthumb/CSP/CSP992/k13060901.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 17, 2013, 10:53:50 PM
I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on July 18, 2013, 03:20:56 AM
I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

Just in time for Spirit Guard Udyr?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Elevevated Beat on July 18, 2013, 03:32:43 AM
Just in time for Spirit Guard Udyr?

Not sure if it'll make me want to play him again :-\
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 18, 2013, 10:31:24 AM
Floater is listed as an option for a normal (non-improved) familiar in Dragon 319, on page 36.  It's statted out in Dungeon 110, on page 88. 

A floater can use detect psionics as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That on its own would be pretty neat. 

It also can use demoralize as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a possible -2 to the attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks of all of your enemies for the entire battle. 

Finally, it can use ego whip as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a 2nd-level power being made available to 1st-level characters, and you're not even spending your own actions to use it. 

A floater also has a fly speed with perfect maneuverability and a poisoned attack, because why not? 
Jumping Jehovah on a pogo stick!
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 18, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
snip...

please don't do that. lots of other expletives to choose from.  :bigeyes
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 18, 2013, 12:21:24 PM
snip...

please don't do that. lots of other expletives to choose from.  :bigeyes
Well... as long as his middle initial wasn't H., it's not accurate anyway, right?  ;)

Edit: Is that one better? :P
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 18, 2013, 12:27:54 PM
snip...

please don't do that. lots of other expletives to choose from.  :bigeyes
Well... as long as his middle initial wasn't H., it's not accurate anyway, right?  ;)

Edit: Is that one better? :P

your alteration is kindly meant, and is appreciated. i had to chuckle.

i suppose if i was being technical, inappropriate usage of Jehovah is still in the same category... but thank you for the effort, nonetheless.
Title: Re: Lame Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 18, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
Well... as long as his middle initial wasn't H., it's not accurate anyway, right?

If we're going to get pedantic, Christ isn't a name; it's a title.  So, the idea of having a "middle name" there doesn't even make sense.  Heck, a fair number of people maintain that he's only correctly referred to as Yeshua, so you could argue that you didn't actually use his name at all. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 18, 2013, 01:46:01 PM
Getting even more technical, some denominations don't even admit calling Him Jehovah or Yeshua, because it's a phonetization of יהוה, the hebrew tetragrammaton, commonly latinized as YHWH... For some, He doesn't really have a name, at least no earthen name worthy of him, and thusly simply refer to him as Lord or Him or simply God. Refer to Exodus 3:14, when He states "I AM WHO I AM." - some interpret that as meaning that he simply cannot be named in earthen tongues, for He simply IS. It's a theological can of worms, not everyone can agree on that. Hell, the Abrahamic religions can't even agree on the nature of Jesus - Prophet, Son of God, God Himself, All of the Above... The variations within the denominations are endless. People have been arguing that for years. What is blasphemy for one, is nothing to the other, and so on and so forth. Toss in non-scripture holy texts, and you have yourself material for another two thousand years of discussion. My opinion on this matter is... In our western society it has become a common enough interjection, especially in urban centers, that it is not worth it to get upset about. Many more things to worry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 18, 2013, 02:04:33 PM
...Toss in non-scripture holy texts, and you have yourself material for another two thousand years of discussion....

indeed, a lot that was considered scripture was removed at various times from the volumes that became what we call the bible. not to mention other sources.

Quote
...that it is not worth it to get upset about....

i see where you are coming from, nonetheless, while acknowledging all the confusion on the matter, it is important to me.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 18, 2013, 05:46:33 PM
So ...  :plotting ... Truenamer (Jesus) is a "Fun Find" , yes ??


Quote from: Forge of War p120
Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.
I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.

Lol that's gonna start the exact same argument Kethrian and I just had all over again.

 :) do it ... iirc that is a Shield Mod.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on July 18, 2013, 10:20:16 PM
So ...  :plotting ... Truenamer (Jesus) is a "Fun Find" , yes ??


Quote from: Forge of War p120
Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.
I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.

Lol that's gonna start the exact same argument Kethrian and I just had all over again.

 :) do it ... iirc that is a Shield Mod.

It isn't, it's a Weapon property.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 18, 2013, 11:53:18 PM
Truenamer (Jesus)  :drums  :clap :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 19, 2013, 01:48:19 AM
More Dark Sun stuff...

Tempest, a wiz 9 spell, obliterates all living creatures in a 20ft radius spread (Ref negates).

Zombie Berry, a Drd/Wiz 3 spell, any non-humanoids that eat 1 of 1d4 berries are now your loyal servant (no save) for 1 day/CL, whereas humanoids get a save vs. Charm Person.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 19, 2013, 03:24:39 AM
I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

Then have yourself Awakened...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on July 19, 2013, 10:07:30 AM
Truenamer (Jesus)  :drums  :clap :lol

it would be most interesting to see how it was really pronounced... assuming that pronouncing it correctly didn't have some deleterious effect....
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 19, 2013, 08:25:02 PM
The Kiai Shout and Greater Kiai Shout feats are actually kinda decent for a fear-based build, especially if you go Zhentarim Fighter. Forcing everything (within a HD limit) in 30ft to save or be shaken for 1d6 rounds, only to immediately follow it up with Zhent combos to further inspire nightmares on enemies is pretty good. And then you get the Greater version and can outright panic things for 2d6 rounds.

Bad news is it's limited in uses/day and targets (the victims have to have less HD/Levels than you do), and the save is Cha-based. Good news is that it's the only fear effect I know of that isn't language-dependant.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 19, 2013, 09:41:38 PM
Mind's Eye feats and Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723c) added Psionic Feint, which is only one of two ways I've found to make a regular feint a Swift action (the other being Beguiler).  Have to expend psionic focus to use it though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 19, 2013, 09:48:46 PM
My fun find, Zhentarim Soldier sucks.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 19, 2013, 09:59:28 PM
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic with that, but I'm quite sure the majority of people didn't think that the Extended Intimidation ability actually worked on the demoralize use of intimidate.  It's plainly obvious it doesn't.  It's useful for more social games where being a bully out of combat can get you somewhere though.

The bit about there being 9 reasons why swift intimidation sucks is definitely a smartass comment though.  9 fighter levels of course, but there are enough ACFs that getting to that point won't be the end of the world.  The ACFs and Imperious Command of course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 19, 2013, 10:11:21 PM
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic with that, but I'm quite sure the majority of people didn't think that the Extended Intimidation ability actually worked on the demoralize use of intimidate.  It's plainly obvious it doesn't.  It's useful for more social games where being a bully out of combat can get you somewhere though.

The bit about there being 9 reasons why swift intimidation sucks is definitely a smartass comment though.  9 fighter levels of course, but there are enough ACFs that getting to that point won't be the end of the world.  The ACFs and Imperious Command of course.

That's just Soro's usual style (especially since Zhentarim Fighter is touted by JaronK, who Soro has a bit of a history with).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on July 19, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

Then have yourself Awakened...
And the feat overwrites your type to Animal again...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 20, 2013, 12:17:50 AM
Found another one!

Quote
TORMTOR SCHOOL [STYLE]
You have learned House Tormtor’s fighting technique from its weapon masters.
Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (javelin), base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: If you deal damage on a melee attack with a javelin, you can then throw that javelin at any other target within 30 feet as a swift action (using your highest base ranged attack bonus).
You take no penalty when making a melee attack with a javelin.
You gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls with javelins.

The intent is obvious (negating the -4 nonproficiency penalty for using a javelin in melee), but the RAW is absurdly stupid. Free power attacks!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 20, 2013, 05:22:55 AM
Changeling + Racial Emulation + Abaqua Spell Power (Races of Ansalon) ACF = +1 level for spells per day/known for your wizard class you have!!!!!

did someone say early entry?

looking at this more closely, it seems to advance all of your arcane classes spells per day by 1 level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 20, 2013, 08:55:17 AM
The intent is obvious (negating the -4 nonproficiency penalty for using a javelin in melee), but the RAW is absurdly stupid. Free power attacks!

Ooo... add this:
(click to show/hide)
Editor (RAW): This is written wrong. The first line states, “This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round.” End of statement. By RAW, as a free action, you speak the command word and get an extra attack. Furthermore, since it is a free action and not an immediate action, you can never activate the power to actually intercept someone’s attack, because you can only activate it on your turn, not on your attacker’s. Although you could make a case that you activate it on your turn and hold the action to use later. In fact, it doesn’t even say this extra action has to be with the weapon. For a +1 WSA, this is flat out BROKEN.


So, You buy two knee blades, two elbow blades, Two Boot Blades, A Horned Helmet and two hand wield a Javelin, jack up the Power attack to max, then activate your 8 Intercepting attacks. In fact, even if you DO limit it to only grapples and what not, you still could get 7 extra attacks every time you are grappled, for a mere 8k each.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 20, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
That's just Soro's usual style (especially since Zhentarim Fighter is touted by JaronK, who Soro has a bit of a history with).
I know you tend to think JK holds my attention but;
Quote from: The Fear Handbook, http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=9deqg2ul41kfva7a296p3h8ps4&topic=3809.msg121807#msg121807
So, each round, as a swift action, Vern can demoralise as a swift action (Zhentarim Soldier). When he does so, everyone within 10’ has to make a roll (Never Outnumbered skill trick) (once per encounter). If Vern successfully demoralises an opponent, they cower for one round, and are shaken for one round thereafter (Imperious Command). However, then that fear is extended for 24 hours (Zhentarim Soldier), and if they leave Vern’s sight, and then see him again, they must make another check, at -4 (Zhentarim Soldier).
A certain someone thinks it's true and advertises such.


MMX link: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8759.0
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 20, 2013, 02:55:28 PM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 20, 2013, 03:12:30 PM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).

You forgot to mention that it gets the Summon Giants spell (which is normally an 8th level spell) as a 4th level spell  :o.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 20, 2013, 05:40:48 PM
The Thief-Acrobat (http://dndtools.eu/classes/thief-acrobat/)'s Steady Stance class feature can be used to negate the drawbacks of Hammer and Piton (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dungeonscape--63/hammer-and-piton--1333/) as part of a Confound the Big Folk build. Maybe.

Also, try taking Bloodstorm Blade levels and throwing the piton at a distant/flying enemy, then "enter his space as a move action" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u8WCtB4qtU).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 20, 2013, 06:31:05 PM
<snip>
Also, try taking Bloodstorm Blade levels and throwing the piton at a distant/flying enemy, then "enter his space as a move action" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u8WCtB4qtU).

Do you even need the BSB levels for that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 20, 2013, 07:14:03 PM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).

You forgot to mention that it gets the Summon Giants spell (which is normally an 8th level spell) as a 4th level spell  :o.

+1
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 20, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
<snip>
Also, try taking Bloodstorm Blade levels and throwing the piton at a distant/flying enemy, then "enter his space as a move action" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u8WCtB4qtU).

Do you even need the BSB levels for that?
Well I guess you could just use it as an improvised thrown weapon, but BSB's ability to make melee attacks at range leaves things less ambiguous.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 21, 2013, 12:19:23 AM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).

You forgot to mention that it gets the Summon Giants spell (which is normally an 8th level spell) as a 4th level spell  :o.

Wait... Disciples of Thrym cast divine spells, yes?  Archivists the world over are elated at this discovery...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 21, 2013, 12:38:43 AM
Remember Darkwood? Everyone knows Darkwood. Heh.

Shield or Weapon: +10 gp/lb (Masterwork)
"Any wooden or mostly wooden item (such as a bow, an arrow, or a spear) made from darkwood is considered a masterwork item and weighs only half as much as a normal wooden item of that type."

A light wooden shield is a Shield (+150 gp for masterwork) and if you plan on enchanting it to do damage when you bash it (+300 gp for masterwork). However, it only weighs 5 lbs. 50 gp for a masterwork wooden shield, saving you 400 gp.

Club weighs 3 lb. that's 30 gp for a masterwork weapon that should cost 300.
50 arrows weigh 7.5 lbs, that's 75 gp for 50 masterwork arrows, instead of 300 gp.

The more I check it out, the better it gets.

Am I reading this wrong?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 21, 2013, 12:41:23 AM
Am I reading this wrong?
Yes.
Quote
To determine the price of a darkwood item, use the original weight but add 10 gp per pound to the price of a masterwork version of that item.
You still have to pay for the MW component, and then add the extra cost for darkwood.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 21, 2013, 01:00:48 AM
Am I reading this wrong?
Yes.
Quote
To determine the price of a darkwood item, use the original weight but add 10 gp per pound to the price of a masterwork version of that item.
You still have to pay for the MW component, and then add the extra cost for darkwood.

Huh. You know, the PDF I have actually doesn't have that. When I check it against my non OCR copy it's in there, but it's not in the OCR. Weird. I wonder if it's dropping any other words.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 21, 2013, 01:14:25 AM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).

You forgot to mention that it gets the Summon Giants spell (which is normally an 8th level spell) as a 4th level spell  :o.

Wait... Disciples of Thrym cast divine spells, yes?  Archivists the world over are elated at this discovery...

Which means Artificers can use wands to summon Giants for bitch tossing competitions.

Great, I broke D&D. AGAIN.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 21, 2013, 01:25:32 AM
I should absolutely drop a wand of Giant Summoning into my game.  Just give it the barest smidgen of charges... maybe 5.  My PC's would identify it in moments (artificer's monocle), and be quite intrigued by what it does.  The Beguiler or the Rogue should be able to activate it without much difficulty.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 21, 2013, 01:33:06 AM
Huh. You know, the PDF I have actually doesn't have that. When I check it against my non OCR copy it's in there, but it's not in the OCR. Weird. I wonder if it's dropping any other words.

Check the publication dates?  Maybe your OCR copy is older/newer than your printed one.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 21, 2013, 10:40:57 AM
Huh. You know, the PDF I have actually doesn't have that. When I check it against my non OCR copy it's in there, but it's not in the OCR. Weird. I wonder if it's dropping any other words.

Check the publication dates?  Maybe your OCR copy is older/newer than your printed one.

No. Turns out it's simply not copying certain words when I block whole pages. I found another one and ditched the bad copy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on July 21, 2013, 02:20:43 PM
The Disciple of Thyrm, while a bit specialized, is a great 3-level dip for Fighters and other noncasters. It has 5th level spells in 10 levels, a decent (if small) spell list, full BAB, and gives a special bonus to greataxe users (specifically, double Strength modifier on damage rolls instead of 1.5).

It does require Weapon Focus (Greataxe) and either the Cold subtype or the Cold Endurance feat, but the Cold Endurance feat is a Fighter bonus feat if the Cold subtype would be problematic (although I'd sooner use the old Frozen Berserker+Blazing Berserker trick, even if it costs more feats).

Where's that from?

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on July 21, 2013, 02:35:19 PM
Which means Artificers can use wands to summon Giants for bitch tossing competitions.
Is this a thing in your games?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 21, 2013, 02:37:00 PM
Where's that from?

JaronK

Frostburn.

Is this a thing in your games?

Being the only dedicated optimizer in my playgroup means that it is a thing until I use it to destabilize the campaign.


Edit: The Armanite from FC1 has an ability that permanently changes any arrow it fires from any bow into a +1 Shocking Burst arrow. You can Planar Bind one, give it a massive quantity of arrows, then have it shoot something shielded by a Wind Wall spell. Each arrow that misses has a 50% chance of surviving, thus allowing you to harvest them for their +1 Shocking Burst quality (either to sell them or have the resident Artificer turn those arrows into craft reserve).


Yet another way to break the WBL!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on July 21, 2013, 02:54:35 PM
This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

Quote from: MMV -> God-Blooded Template -> "Creating God-Blooded Templates"
The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.
True sight isn't attempting to divine information about a specific being. You can see an Vecno-blooded creature with it even if you can't figure out who it is.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 21, 2013, 04:21:42 PM
More stupidly broken RAW!

Quote
Legion’s Mind (Su): If a mind-affecting spell or ability targets a single legion devil, the devil and all other devils within 60 feet make saving throws against it. If any devil succeeds, all the devils succeed. If all the devils fail, they all suffer the effect of a failed save.

Assuming a Devil in 60ft isn't immune to mind-affecting spells, targeting a Legion Devil with Dominate Monster chains the effect to ALL devils within 60ft (it likely meant only other Legion Devils, but again RAW can be abused). Since the save DCs for Mind-Affecting spells can be pumped up fairly easily this means you can very easily enslave a horde of Pit Fiends (if you can catch them with their pants down).

Sometimes I think WotC should have fired their editors years ago...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 21, 2013, 04:33:48 PM
This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

Quote from: MMV -> God-Blooded Template -> "Creating God-Blooded Templates"
The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.
True sight isn't attempting to divine information about a specific being. You can see an Vecno-blooded creature with it even if you can't figure out who it is.
A creature's position and what it looks like are certainly pieces of information about that creature. Nothing in Cloak of Mystery says anything about requiring the effect to be specific to the VB creature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 21, 2013, 04:35:22 PM
Summon Giants + Ambient Tempest = Eternal Wand of Summon Giants
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 21, 2013, 07:54:26 PM
Summon Giants + Ambient Tempest = Eternal Wand of Summon Giants
:???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 21, 2013, 09:33:37 PM
Its a PrC in Bestiary of Krynn that, at 3rd level, you can reverse an Enlarge, Extend, or Widen Spell to decrease the spell level by 1. Only can be -1 per spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 22, 2013, 12:26:25 AM
Necklace of soul switching (Dragon 294, p77) is interesting. 

You'd be right to point out that the function of this item, putting you into a new body permanently, can already be accomplished by true mind switch or by a combination of mind switch and astral seed (I think that's how that goes).  Those methods, though, don't work if the body you want to get into has more hit dice than you manifester level, and they don't give you the supernatural abilities of the new body. 

The necklace has its own limitations.  The soul to be transferred can only be up to 20th level.  The price tag comes in at a hefty 326,000 gp.  It's actually dangerous for you if the target isn't willing or under your control, so it will forfeit its save.  But, and I can't stress this enough, there's no hit die cap for the body, and you gain its supernatural abilities, both attacks and qualities. 

One application is getting yourself into the tarrasque's body without needing any shenanigans to reduce its hit dice or massively boost your manifester level.  Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio, p33) is already an option for shapechange, but this way you can walk around as a chronotyryn all day without finding a way to squeeze in persistent spell, and you don't have to worry about dispel. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 22, 2013, 12:53:48 AM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 22, 2013, 07:38:32 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

Now that you mention it, since a necklace of soul switching isn't used up in any way when you transfer a soul with it, someone with mercantile background could buy it for 75% of market price, use it, then sell it for 75% market price. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 22, 2013, 07:51:44 PM
NICE :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 22, 2013, 07:58:44 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Wow... That's so broken it's not even funny. The spell explicitly states that there is NO LIMIT. You can continue the madness forever. Just... Just no. The way this spell is worded, you can create Undead-Pun, you just need an arbitrarily large number of actions and a sure-fire way of getting an arbitrarily large caster level for at least one round, in which you cast animate dead.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on July 22, 2013, 08:12:41 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Wow... That's so broken it's not even funny. The spell explicitly states that there is NO LIMIT. You can continue the madness forever. Just... Just no. The way this spell is worded, you can create Undead-Pun, you just need an arbitrarily large number of actions and a sure-fire way of getting an arbitrarily large caster level for at least one round, in which you cast animate dead.
It does have an explicit limit: "Bone craft can only be used to combine a number of corpses equal to the caster’s Intelligence modifier into one composite body". So without infinite stats, you can't make Un-Pun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 22, 2013, 08:43:27 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Wow... That's so broken it's not even funny. The spell explicitly states that there is NO LIMIT. You can continue the madness forever. Just... Just no. The way this spell is worded, you can create Undead-Pun, you just need an arbitrarily large number of actions and a sure-fire way of getting an arbitrarily large caster level for at least one round, in which you cast animate dead.
It does have an explicit limit: "Bone craft can only be used to combine a number of corpses equal to the caster’s Intelligence modifier into one composite body". So without infinite stats, you can't make Un-Pun.

Make other composite bodies, a composite body is still a body that can be added to another composite body. It's semantics, but if we're doing TO, it's par for course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 22, 2013, 08:46:05 PM
make your own customized undead!
(click to show/hide)

Undead Human CENTIPEDE!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 22, 2013, 08:54:27 PM
Necklace of soul switching (Dragon 294, p77) is interesting. 

You'd be right to point out that the function of this item, putting you into a new body permanently, can already be accomplished by true mind switch or by a combination of mind switch and astral seed (I think that's how that goes).  Those methods, though, don't work if the body you want to get into has more hit dice than you manifester level, and they don't give you the supernatural abilities of the new body. 

The necklace has its own limitations.  The soul to be transferred can only be up to 20th level.  The price tag comes in at a hefty 326,000 gp.  It's actually dangerous for you if the target isn't willing or under your control, so it will forfeit its save.  But, and I can't stress this enough, there's no hit die cap for the body, and you gain its supernatural abilities, both attacks and qualities. 

One application is getting yourself into the tarrasque's body without needing any shenanigans to reduce its hit dice or massively boost your manifester level.  Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio, p33) is already an option for shapechange, but this way you can walk around as a chronotyryn all day without finding a way to squeeze in persistent spell, and you don't have to worry about dispel.
for those looking for a more official* source than Dragon, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has an item that makes Magic Jar permanent.  Just an FYI.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Tohron on July 22, 2013, 09:15:22 PM

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Impressive.  Wonder whether the current wording about adding natural attacks of the base creature means that if you merge five creatures with natural attacks, the composite can make ALL of those natural attacks.  At any rate, the uncapped scaling of this spell can get pretty crazy - Improved Movement could theoretically make one of these things faster than Chuck E. Cheese (pre errata), and just adding Improved Toughness a bunch of times to a high HD composite could create a ludicrous mountain of HP.

Getting the spell could be problematic, but I think that as long as you know it exists, you could use Wish to get a scroll of it.

Also, I think this might give Pun Pun a few more true infinities.

Wonder if there's a way to throw this into an Affinity Field loop via a dead symbiont or something...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 22, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Improved Toughness isn't one of those feats that can be taken multiple times, unfortunately.

Also, does a single round boost to CL help at all when a spell's casting time is 4+ hours?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 22, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
More...
Moment of Travesty... Drop a bunch of creatures into no-time. Only freedom can end it, which deals 3d6 Int/Wis/Cha damage

Obfuscate... Really powerful anti-divination shield

Spirit Guard... Bind a ghost based on a dead body to any object or room. You can choose to bind it forever and it cannot attack you and any creatures you specify.

yeah? I'll have a little baggie of ghost marbles
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on July 22, 2013, 09:29:38 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Wow... That's so broken it's not even funny. The spell explicitly states that there is NO LIMIT. You can continue the madness forever. Just... Just no. The way this spell is worded, you can create Undead-Pun, you just need an arbitrarily large number of actions and a sure-fire way of getting an arbitrarily large caster level for at least one round, in which you cast animate dead.

+

I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

just sayin...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on July 22, 2013, 09:37:59 PM
Mercantile Background saves you like 80k

edit:

make your own customized undead!

(click to show/hide)

Wow... That's so broken it's not even funny. The spell explicitly states that there is NO LIMIT. You can continue the madness forever. Just... Just no. The way this spell is worded, you can create Undead-Pun, you just need an arbitrarily large number of actions and a sure-fire way of getting an arbitrarily large caster level for at least one round, in which you cast animate dead.
It does have an explicit limit: "Bone craft can only be used to combine a number of corpses equal to the caster’s Intelligence modifier into one composite body". So without infinite stats, you can't make Un-Pun.

Make other composite bodies, a composite body is still a body that can be added to another composite body. It's semantics, but if we're doing TO, it's par for course.
No it doesn't work by the semantics. The restriction is based off corpses, not bodies and the spell explicitly defines composite bodies as collections of corpses.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 22, 2013, 09:45:36 PM
Check out the post above yours

make a Sharn Chronotyryn Chocker Phane
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Bastian on July 23, 2013, 12:16:31 AM
Check out the post above yours

make a Sharn Chronotyryn Chocker Phane
The post above mine had pretty much nothing to do with the conversation I was having. We were discussion how many corpses could be added together. The post above mine was discussing type changing.

Also, note that the resulting undead does not get all the special qualities of the base bodies.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 23, 2013, 12:55:09 AM
Nvm

but you can give them special abilities, which they all have some awesome ones
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 23, 2013, 03:06:05 PM
A mask of silent casting (Dungeon 90, 106) effectively adds the silent spell feat to all your spells with no level increase.  It costs 56,000 gp, but it's one step closer to casting as a purely mental action. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on July 23, 2013, 03:55:29 PM
This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

Quote from: MMV -> God-Blooded Template -> "Creating God-Blooded Templates"
The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.
True sight isn't attempting to divine information about a specific being. You can see an Vecno-blooded creature with it even if you can't figure out who it is.
A creature's position and what it looks like are certainly pieces of information about that creature. Nothing in Cloak of Mystery says anything about requiring the effect to be specific to the VB creature.
Not so. "or cast to learn information about it." True sight isn't a spell cast specifically to learn about the VB creature (it is merely cast to allow enhance their sight) nor it is "cast against" the VB. Sure you can interpret all true seeing spells to be cast to look for the VB creature, but that's pretty extreme.


Something useful: the Wall of Steel teamwork benefit [PHBII162] appears to allow a large (long) or Huge and up creature to gain the full benefits of two shields. Finally, right? To Hell with the fluff! Unfortunately it doesn't specifically say that the ability stacks multiple times so no being huge and having five shields. I'm assuming a 2-D play style, of course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on July 23, 2013, 04:06:32 PM
This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

Quote from: MMV -> God-Blooded Template -> "Creating God-Blooded Templates"
The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.
True sight isn't attempting to divine information about a specific being. You can see an Vecno-blooded creature with it even if you can't figure out who it is.
A creature's position and what it looks like are certainly pieces of information about that creature. Nothing in Cloak of Mystery says anything about requiring the effect to be specific to the VB creature.
Not so. "or cast to learn information about it." True sight isn't a spell cast specifically to learn about the VB creature (it is merely cast to allow enhance their sight) nor it is "cast against" the VB. Sure you can interpret all true seeing spells to be cast to look for the VB creature, but that's pretty extreme.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I feel like you're adding conditions which don't exist.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on July 23, 2013, 05:12:54 PM
A mask of silent casting (Dungeon 90, 106) effectively adds the silent spell feat to all your spells with no level increase.  It costs 56,000 gp, but it's one step closer to casting as a purely mental action.
That is beautiful!  :love  I have been trying to make a sneaky silent sorcerer and had been looking for an easy way to get Silent Spell on everything.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 23, 2013, 05:50:38 PM
More...
Moment of Travesty... Drop a bunch of creatures into no-time. Only freedom can end it, which deals 3d6 Int/Wis/Cha damage

Obfuscate... Really powerful anti-divination shield

Spirit Guard... Bind a ghost based on a dead body to any object or room. You can choose to bind it forever and it cannot attack you and any creatures you specify.

yeah? I'll have a little baggie of ghost marbles
Where are these from?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 23, 2013, 07:08:20 PM
oh sorry.. the same Planescape section on Magic from one of my earlier posts

here they are if you don't want to have to look for them
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

here are some more...
(click to show/hide)

zombies that explode disease when killed (no time limit)

(click to show/hide)

way to get easier teleport chances
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 23, 2013, 10:07:48 PM
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I feel like you're adding conditions which don't exist.
Maybe RAWtarding the definition of a single word for fallacy purposes probably wasn't the best way of doing things. But hey, at least no one linked this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_74546&feature=iv&list=PLCDA5EF834647EEED&src_vid=lufECeWtN34&v=RC5ZiK6o7uQ) right?
I did, so haha.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on July 24, 2013, 12:22:32 AM
Fun little find for wizards in Dragon Magazine 357. After the vestiges which are fairly common knowledge, there is a selection of specific demons that can be bound with the standard spells. Among these demons is a 6 HD quasit who will for 100 gp per spell level get you access to any spell of your choice for copying into your spell book. It's explicitly any spell, and called out to be a very reliable service.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on July 24, 2013, 12:26:47 AM
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as I feel like you're adding conditions which don't exist.
Maybe RAWtarding the definition of a single word for fallacy purposes probably wasn't the best way of doing things. But hey, at least no one linked this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_74546&feature=iv&list=PLCDA5EF834647EEED&src_vid=lufECeWtN34&v=RC5ZiK6o7uQ) right?
I did, so haha.

AHHH!!! You bastard!

That was the biggest rip off ending ever. I actually wanted to throw my remote through the TV. Curse you. May you spend eternity forced to watch the unholy spawn of Gigli and Ishtar.

Over and over and over again.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 24, 2013, 06:32:06 AM
A mask of silent casting (Dungeon 90, 106) effectively adds the silent spell feat to all your spells with no level increase.  It costs 56,000 gp, but it's one step closer to casting as a purely mental action.
That is beautiful!  :love  I have been trying to make a sneaky silent sorcerer and had been looking for an easy way to get Silent Spell on everything.  Thanks.

Do you have a way to get still spell on everything? For a shadowcraft mage with
Quote
Silent Illusion (Ex): After a shadowcraft mage reaches 2nd level, all spells from the illusion school that she casts no longer require a verbal component, as if the Silent Spell feat had been applied to them. The levels and casting times of these illusion spells don't change, however. If a shadowcraft mage casts illusion spells that can't be affected by the Silent Spell feat (for instance, if the character casts bard spells), this ability has no effect on those spells.

The mask is pretty redundant, I guess you could argue for an item that costs the same for still spell as they're very similar feats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 24, 2013, 05:52:17 PM
from Kargatane's Book of Sacrifices (which is half 3e and half 2e  :twitch )...

the Anatomist has a ridiculous ability...
Quote
Graft Body Part (Su): An anatomist of third level
or higher may attempt to replace a damaged (or
undamaged) body part with any similarly appropriate
member. The body part need not be of the same species
(an elf’s hand to replace a dwarf’s), or even humanoid
or animal (a tiger’s paw to replace a human hand). It
must however be of the appropriate size (a pixie’s hand
cannot replace an ogre’s.) and member (a snakes head
may not replace a gnome’s hand). The Anatomist may
perform such surgery on himself if an assistant is
present. Such surgery is time consuming, taking 8 hrs–
1hr/level of the anatomist, to a minimum of 1 hour. The
DC for such operations is 20.
Quote
Surgical Alteration (Su): The Anatomist has
learned enough of the surgeons art to change the
appearance of the Human (or demihuman) body. Such
transformations may:
???? Change the appearance of another character,
remove scar tissue. An Anatomist with the disguise
skill and who has studied a person may change a
person’s appearance to match the appearance of
someone else.
???? Modify physical ability scores (Characters may
reroll their ability scores for Str, Con or Cha,
adding the Anatomist’s wisdom modifier to the
total). Characters are stuck with the second roll,
which may be lower than the initial score. Such a
low roll represents failure on the part of the
anatomist.
???? Reshape a character’s body physically. Such a
process is time consuming, but the anatomist may
change the patient’s height, weight, or length of
limbs. Such surgery is always painful and
deforming to the patients.
Evil Anatomists have been known to experiment
on patients, reducing ability scores or changing a
character surgically to appear as a monster. Such use
requires a Dark Powers check.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 24, 2013, 06:41:39 PM
"Alright, so I roll... 4d6, drop lowest, +10? And that is my Strength score?

OK, thanks dude."

What's the action on that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 24, 2013, 06:47:34 PM
"Alright, so I roll... 4d6, drop lowest, +10? And that is my Strength score?

OK, thanks dude."

What's the action on that?

no clue, but i would assume its the same as the other one

from Knightly Orders of Ansalon...

Quote
Heroic Surge [General]
You may draw on inner reserves of energy to perform
additional actions in a round.
Benefit: You may take an additional move or attack
action, either before or after your regular actions. You may
use Heroic Surge once per day based on your character
level, but never more than once per round. 1st-4th level,
once per day; 5th-8th level, twice a day; 9th-12th level,
three times a day; 13th-16th level, four times a day; 17th-
20th level, five times a day.
Quote
Saddle of Light Burdens
This saddle is constructed to
accommodate two riders. The
mount ignores the first 1000
pounds of weight it carries for
purposes of fatigue and speed.
Mild transmutation; CL 5th;
Craft Wondrous Item, shrink item;
Price 15,000 stl; Weight 30 lbs.
and previously mentioned...
Quote
Mighty Steed [General]
The creature’s exceptionally large stature allows it to carry
more than it normally could.
Prerequisites: Any mount.
Benefit: For the purposes of determining carrying
capacity as well as the size of riders it can bear, the creature
is considered to be one size category larger than it actually
is.
Normal: A creature without this feat can only carry
creatures of one size smaller than its actual size and can
carry less weight. See “Carrying Capacity” in Chapter
Nine: Adventuring of the Player’s Handbook.

from Holy Order of the Stars....

the Necrotheurge of Chemosh is a very potent cleric necro advancer. you get extra HD for your undead creature through animating, extra HD of undead through rebuking, advanced rebuking, add your Int to your caster level for the purposes of Create Undead spell chain available undead

Wild Fury of Chislev can quickly advance a druid or WS ranger/MoMF and/or druid or WS ranger/planar shepherd's wild shapes twice as fast
Quote
Wild Shape (Su): The wild fury of Chislev continues to
develop her abilities at transformation. She adds her levels
in this class to her levels in the class from which she gained
the wild shape ability to determine number of times per
day she may change, size of her animal form, and other
advancements. For example, a wild fury with 5
levels of druid and 5 levels of wild fury
may use her wild shape ability 4
times a day and assume a Large
animal shape.

how would this ability work when turning a masterwork item into a magic item? or does the 'standard' cause it to lose these bonuses as a magic item? or just remains with that bonus and those of a magic item of its type. (MW armor -> breastplate of command gaining +10)

Quote
Item of Legend: With this knack, the master craftsman
reaches the pinnacle of his ability to create superior items.
The master craftsman can create masterwork items that
are five times as effective as standard masterwork items
– weapons confer a +5 bonus to attack rolls, armor check
penalty is lessened by 5, and skill bonus items confer a
+10 bonus. These items of legend must be created with
the Craft skill specified by the master’s item of distinction
knack, take five times as long to create, and the additional
cost to create them is quintupled (+1500 steel for weapons
of legend, +750 steel for armor of legend, etc).
Prerequisites: Item of Glory, Craft (specific skill) 15
ranks.

a way to gain a cohort-only Leadership at 4th level
Quote
Faithful Aide: The master professional has acquired a
talented apprentice, student, bodyguard, or servant. This
knack functions like the Leadership feat, but it applies only
to a cohort, and the master professional’s Leadership score
is equal to his ranks in a chosen Profession skill plus his
Charisma bonus. The aide can be a character of any class,
although usually another master, and is treated exactly as
any other cohort.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 26, 2013, 12:58:25 PM
Detect Life (Call of Cthulu) is a Druid 0/Cleric 1 spell that gives a limited form of Lifesense, based on Detect Magic.  It's from what's possibly the least likely sourcebook to every be allowed at a standard table, but still.  Lifesense!  On a level 0 spell!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 27, 2013, 11:36:16 AM
The Leviathan Hunter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/leviathan-hunter/) PrC from Stormwrack has a few fun features; the best one, though, is that you get Clever Wrestling without having to meet prerequisites.

Yep, the only size-independent way to get into Reaping Mauler, right there.

Just in case anyone, you know, cares.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 27, 2013, 01:53:46 PM
Flesh to Stone + Polymorph Any Object can get you a longer duration on "mineral"-based end forms.

Flesh to Stone is instantaneous and changes the target into a "mindless, inert statue."  Now that the target is made of stone, that gives you a hefty +5 duration bonus to turn them into anything stone or metal.  Mindless object -> mindless object would give you another +2.

Also note that Poly Any Object can duplicate several lower-level transmutation spells, including Flesh to Stone.

So, those two spells can make a kidnap victim (or assassination target) very hard to find for a long while.  It even quashes Mindsight.  Presumably Discern Location would still find the object when looking for the person, however.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TiaC on July 27, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
Flesh to Stone + Polymorph Any Object can get you a longer duration on "mineral"-based end forms.

Flesh to Stone is instantaneous and changes the target into a "mindless, inert statue."  Now that the target is made of stone, that gives you a hefty +5 duration bonus to turn them into anything stone or metal.  Mindless object -> mindless object would give you another +2.

Also note that Poly Any Object can duplicate several lower-level transmutation spells, including Flesh to Stone.

So, those two spells can make a kidnap victim (or assassination target) very hard to find for a long while.  It even quashes Mindsight.  Presumably Discern Location would still find the object when looking for the person, however.
How about Flesh to Stone -> Animate Object ->Incarnate construct
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 27, 2013, 06:20:44 PM
Flesh to Stone + Polymorph Any Object can get you a longer duration on "mineral"-based end forms.

Flesh to Stone is instantaneous and changes the target into a "mindless, inert statue."  Now that the target is made of stone, that gives you a hefty +5 duration bonus to turn them into anything stone or metal.  Mindless object -> mindless object would give you another +2.

Also note that Poly Any Object can duplicate several lower-level transmutation spells, including Flesh to Stone.

So, those two spells can make a kidnap victim (or assassination target) very hard to find for a long while.  It even quashes Mindsight.  Presumably Discern Location would still find the object when looking for the person, however.
How about Flesh to Stone -> Animate Object ->Incarnate construct

Hum... IDK if Animated Objects with "Humanoid" form would count as valid targets for Incarnate Construct, but Flesh to Stone -> PaO to Stone Golem -> Incarnate Construct would definitely work.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 27, 2013, 06:34:01 PM
That's definitely a way to "dispose of the body" right there...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on July 27, 2013, 08:18:00 PM
is 'sand castle' an 'object'.

can you pao someone into particulates?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 27, 2013, 08:54:45 PM
If you really don't want someone to come back, Animate Dead their body.  Not even True Res can bring back someone until the skeleton is destroyed.  Of course, I suppose you could combine this method with the Flesh to Stone/PAO trick... does turning a skeleton into a rock count as "destroying" it?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 27, 2013, 10:28:46 PM
is 'sand castle' an 'object'.

can you pao someone into particulates?

From PAO:

Quote
Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. For example, it is possible to polymorph a creature into rock and then grind it to dust, causing damage, perhaps even death. If the creature was changed to dust to start with, more creative methods to damage it would be needed. Perhaps you could use a gust of wind spell to scatter the dust far and wide. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force, although the DM must adjudicate many of these situations.

So, yes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on July 28, 2013, 12:15:49 AM
If you really don't want someone to come back, Animate Dead their body.  Not even True Res can bring back someone until the skeleton is destroyed.  Of course, I suppose you could combine this method with the Flesh to Stone/PAO trick... does turning a skeleton into a rock count as "destroying" it?
Flesh to Stone won't work on a skele, though, due to it being a fort save that doesn't work on objects.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 28, 2013, 12:43:33 AM
does turning a skeleton into a rock count as "destroying" it?

Now that you mention it, using flesh to stone on a living creature doesn't count as killing it.  So, true resurrection and such can't do anything to help it.  I don't think grinding the statue to a powder kills the creature until someone casts stone to flesh, which will be difficult after you scatter the sand into the middle of the ocean. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 28, 2013, 02:11:31 AM
Take the skeleton and start grinding up the bones, when its hp is too low, put it in several sturdy iron mugs and cap them. Then on the one little grain outside, use negative energy to heal it. Keep doing this and use smaller and smaller containers. Eventually the skeleton is a bunch of pebbles. Sprinkle all but one into the sea. The one could help in keeping the skeleton 'alive' by healing it.

good luck killing all of the undead pebbles
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on July 28, 2013, 02:18:20 AM
Quote from: Unearthed Arcana p94
Live My Nightmare [Spelltouched]
Those who magically pry into your mind become privy to your
most frightening dreams.
Prerequisite: Exposure to phantasmal killerspell.
Benefit: Whenever someone successfully targets you with
a divination spell or effect, you can send that caster a nightmarish vision. This vision functions as a phantasmal killer spell,
except that the form comes from your dreams, not the other
creature’s dreams. The other creature must succeed on a Will
save (DC 14 + your Cha modifier) to disbelieve the nightmare
and a Fortitude save (DC 14 + your Cha modifier) to avoid dying from fear.

Well, that's one way to stop people from scrying on you.

Quote from: Unearthed Arcana p95
Omniscient Whispers [Spelltouched]
A constant, barely audible muttering echoes in your ears, usually
beyond your comprehension. But if you focus all your energy
on listening, you sometimes catch a sentence or two that bears
directly on your current situation.
Prerequisite: Exposure to communeor contact other planespell.
Benefit: Once per week, you can tune into the voices you hear,
getting the answer to a question much as if you had asked it with
a communespell.
 Using this feat renders you exhausted.
And commune, as an untyped (I assume Spell-like?) ability, once per week.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on July 29, 2013, 05:25:45 AM
Quote from: Unearthed Arcana p94
Live My Nightmare [Spelltouched]
Those who magically pry into your mind become privy to your
most frightening dreams.
Prerequisite: Exposure to phantasmal killerspell.
Benefit: Whenever someone successfully targets you with
a divination spell or effect, you can send that caster a nightmarish vision. This vision functions as a phantasmal killer spell,
except that the form comes from your dreams, not the other
creature’s dreams. The other creature must succeed on a Will
save (DC 14 + your Cha modifier) to disbelieve the nightmare
and a Fortitude save (DC 14 + your Cha modifier) to avoid dying from fear.

Well, that's one way to stop people from scrying on you.

Would be awesome for a Dreadwitch / Nightmare spinner... people try to scry on you and die from fright... very thematic.

Quote from: Unearthed Arcana p95
Omniscient Whispers [Spelltouched]
A constant, barely audible muttering echoes in your ears, usually
beyond your comprehension. But if you focus all your energy
on listening, you sometimes catch a sentence or two that bears
directly on your current situation.
Prerequisite: Exposure to communeor contact other planespell.
Benefit: Once per week, you can tune into the voices you hear,
getting the answer to a question much as if you had asked it with
a communespell.
 Using this feat renders you exhausted.
And commune, as an untyped (I assume Spell-like?) ability, once per week.

Take this on a crazy character who hears voices... then occasionally tell the party something really useful but completely freaks them out.

"The voices say..."
"Oh god, look the voices are in your head, stop going on about them!"
"Well... the voices say this is the ancient tomb of Ankh'ut, and there's a secret lever...here"
*clunk*
"I am Ankh'ut, who disturbs my slumber!"

That'd confuse the hell out of a party who assumed the voices were just RP.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on July 29, 2013, 08:54:35 PM
Something I'd forgotten, an Oriental Adventures campaign has larger ability score increases for aging than a normal campaign. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 29, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
Really?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on July 29, 2013, 09:56:43 PM
Really?
Quote from: SRD
    At middle age, -1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
    At old age, -2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
    At venerable age, -3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
Quote from: OA p. 69
* –1 to Str, Con, and Dex; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
** –2 to Str, Con, and Dex; +2 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
† –3 to Str, Con, and Dex; +3 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 29, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
Wow, so since it doesn't say they don't stack, it works as the SRD version
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 29, 2013, 10:16:54 PM
I think it's more fair. You gain just as much as you lose. -6 physical and +6 mental at the end. Seems good for me.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 29, 2013, 11:54:52 PM
Agreed
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on July 30, 2013, 12:05:29 AM
OA is 3.0, right?  Does the 3.0 PHB have those same numbers?

Edit:  Just checked, it does not.  They did indeed change it for OA.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 30, 2013, 12:27:38 AM
OA was updated to 3.5 in Dragon 318.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 30, 2013, 09:06:08 AM
A couple of nice feats I've found:

Brutal Strike: (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/brutal-strike--277/) when you make a power attack with a bludgeoning weapon, you can declare it a brutal strike; if you do that, they have to make a Fortitude save against DC 10 + bonus damage from Power Attack or be Sickened for one round.

Great Throw: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060413a) Mundane battlefield control just got scarier.

Why? Get an Aptitude Bolas. Optimize the range increments. Laugh as you drag the guy 50+ feet away from you adjacent to you (or, if you have a reach weapon, and are standing near something dangerous... yeah.) You also get to add your base Unarmed damage. Nifty.

Great Throw goes great with standing near lava. Or next to a ledge above a lake of acid with acid breathing sharks in it.

Hope they make the climb checks to hold on!

Or, if you can get the reach out long enough, it's a great way to bring flying creatures down to earth.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on July 30, 2013, 09:56:26 AM
Time to see if I can fit that in to my Big Stupid God build.  May be tricky, but I think he has everything but Dodge anyway, and I know he has a free feat.  Already uses an aptitude spiked chain.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 30, 2013, 11:36:14 AM
i'm a fan of stacking Aptitude on a Warbringer's Rod with the War organization capstone
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on July 30, 2013, 01:57:37 PM
A couple of nice feats I've found:

Brutal Strike: (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/brutal-strike--277/) when you make a power attack with a bludgeoning weapon, you can declare it a brutal strike; if you do that, they have to make a Fortitude save against DC 10 + bonus damage from Power Attack or be Sickened for one round.

Not bad. Sickened is only -2 to several things, and its only 1 round, but a debuff is a debuff. Is it worth a feat, though?

Quote
Great Throw: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060413a) Mundane battlefield control just got scarier.

Why? Get an Aptitude Bolas. Optimize the range increments. Laugh as you drag the guy 50+ feet away from you adjacent to you (or, if you have a reach weapon, and are standing near something dangerous... yeah.) You also get to add your base Unarmed damage. Nifty.

Great Throw only works with unarmed trip attempts. I'm pretty sure even Aptitude Bolas count as a trip with a weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 30, 2013, 02:01:20 PM
want a shield bonus that stacks with other shield bonuses?

Crawling Shield (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061023a)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on July 30, 2013, 02:04:53 PM
Crawling Shield specifically says that the shield bonuses would overlap, not stack, if using another shield.

Oh, you meant doubling up on shield special abilities? Yeah, that's cool.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on July 30, 2013, 02:10:07 PM
Crawling Shield specifically says that the shield bonuses would overlap, not stack, if using another shield.

Oh, you meant doubling up on shield special abilities? Yeah, that's cool.

Unfortunately it takes up your Bracer slot :/
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 30, 2013, 02:54:11 PM
wow... i'm totally blind
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 30, 2013, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Unearthed Arcana p95
Omniscient Whispers [Spelltouched]
A constant, barely audible muttering echoes in your ears, usually
beyond your comprehension. But if you focus all your energy
on listening, you sometimes catch a sentence or two that bears
directly on your current situation.
Prerequisite: Exposure to communeor contact other planespell.
Benefit: Once per week, you can tune into the voices you hear,
getting the answer to a question much as if you had asked it with
a communespell.
 Using this feat renders you exhausted.
And commune, as an untyped (I assume Spell-like?) ability, once per week.

Take this on a crazy character who hears voices... then occasionally tell the party something really useful but completely freaks them out.

"The voices say..."
"Oh god, look the voices are in your head, stop going on about them!"
"Well... the voices say this is the ancient tomb of Ankh'ut, and there's a secret lever...here"
*clunk*
"I am Ankh'ut, who disturbs my slumber!"

That'd confuse the hell out of a party who assumed the voices were just RP.

gaahhh !!!!
You just succeeded a Contact Other Plane about my kitty avatar.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 30, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
Summon Serpents (Sp): At 6th level, a master of vipers can call any sort of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him. Two serpents of the same kind appear and obey the character's commands. For each new master of vipers level attained, an additional snake appears (three at 7th level, four at 8th level, five at 9th level, and six at 10th level). The summoned serpents are all the same kind. This ability otherwise functions like a summon nature's ally spell.

Depending on how you define "serpent" this could be very powerful. Off the top of my head, couldn't you use it to call the CR 26 creature Dendar the Night Serpent from Champions of Ruin?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 30, 2013, 10:52:50 PM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
Summon Serpents (Sp): At 6th level, a master of vipers can call any sort of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him. Two serpents of the same kind appear and obey the character's commands. For each new master of vipers level attained, an additional snake appears (three at 7th level, four at 8th level, five at 9th level, and six at 10th level). The summoned serpents are all the same kind. This ability otherwise functions like a summon nature's ally spell.

Depending on how you define "serpent" this could be very powerful. Off the top of my head, couldn't you use it to call the CR 26 creature Dendar the Night Serpent from Champions of Ruin?

And the true form of Sertrous (not the aspect presented in Elder Evils).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on July 30, 2013, 11:30:17 PM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
Summon Serpents (Sp): At 6th level, a master of vipers can call any sort of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him. Two serpents of the same kind appear and obey the character's commands. For each new master of vipers level attained, an additional snake appears (three at 7th level, four at 8th level, five at 9th level, and six at 10th level). The summoned serpents are all the same kind. This ability otherwise functions like a summon nature's ally spell.

Depending on how you define "serpent" this could be very powerful. Off the top of my head, couldn't you use it to call the CR 26 creature Dendar the Night Serpent from Champions of Ruin?
Wow... what an idiotic ability... No limitations on CR, HD, or anything at all... and you get multiple ones... So you could summon 3 Sertrouses (Sertrousi? :p).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 30, 2013, 11:38:55 PM
Call any sort of serpent eh?  Let's see if Pun-Pun decides to use Shapechange.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on July 30, 2013, 11:51:18 PM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
... any kind of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him...

You gotta encounter them first...but otherwise, it looks like it's time to go to town!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 31, 2013, 12:01:17 AM
Even if you have to encounter them first, there are a lot of very powerful serpents. No restriction on templates, either. Monster of Legend comes to mind... As well as Paragon...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 12:10:03 AM
Since it says "see" and not "encounter" I think you could scry them as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on July 31, 2013, 12:23:29 AM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
Summon Serpents (Sp): At 6th level, a master of vipers can call any sort of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him. Two serpents of the same kind appear and obey the character's commands. For each new master of vipers level attained, an additional snake appears (three at 7th level, four at 8th level, five at 9th level, and six at 10th level). The summoned serpents are all the same kind. This ability otherwise functions like a summon nature's ally spell.

Depending on how you define "serpent" this could be very powerful. Off the top of my head, couldn't you use it to call the CR 26 creature Dendar the Night Serpent from Champions of Ruin?


I don't know, it is attained from a class that is all about Vipers, which are snakes. It also mentions the word snake directly in the ability. Pretty clear that they are using Serpent to reference snakes, as is a common term outside of the game. Where something isn't defined clearly as a specific term, such as Serpent, then you should probably default to the common English meaning that makes the most sense, which in this case would be snakes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on July 31, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
Still ... scry a half-celestial half-dragon fiendish magebred warsnake of legend ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on July 31, 2013, 12:39:07 AM
Not sure that would fly in any reasonable setting. It is pretty clear that the meaning is a snake, as in any of the published creatures that are specifically called snakes. This is just willfully ignoring the context of the source of the ability and all but the text that you want.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 01:39:53 AM
Ummm... pg5 of Serpent Kingdoms has a list of all serpents.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on July 31, 2013, 08:04:49 AM
Dang, I misread Great Throw as requiring a trip with your Unarmed Strike.

Still, Blood Wind comes to mind, with some levels in Bloodstorm Blade...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 31, 2013, 09:48:10 AM
Also in addition to Page 5 there, unless otherwise specifically noted Templates are excluded. For instance, Summon Monster II can Summon an an Untemplated Lemure or a Celestial Eagle, not Half-Dragon versions of either.

And like Summon Monster, Summon Serpents contains no rules saying you can summon a Templated Creature, and it very much has a defined list that doesn't include any Templates or Templated Creatures on it. IE is says Flame Snake, not Paragon Fire Snake of Legend. Even lacking a defined list, it said Serpents, not Fiendish Serpents or Half-Dragon Serpents as the name change of Templated Creatures requires.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 11:40:00 AM
but you could summon advanced serpents? since they are basically the same as the normal, just 'older'

there are some pretty good serpents on the list, like Deathcoils and Flame Snakes

also, it appears to have no limit / day, or is it just me?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 31, 2013, 11:47:18 AM
The Anarchomancer PrC in Dragon #315 has an lv1 ability that lets it rebuild as any character 2 levels lower (you don't even need to keep your original race), until it takes a full-round action to return to its original form.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
i mentioned that previously.... its soooo powerful
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 31, 2013, 12:35:31 PM
The Anarchomancer PrC in Dragon #315 has an lv1 ability that lets it rebuild as any character 2 levels lower (you don't even need to keep your original race), until it takes a full-round action to return to its original form.

What? He can become ANYTHING he wants? Wow...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on July 31, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
The Anarchomancer PrC in Dragon #315 has an lv1 ability that lets it rebuild as any character 2 levels lower (you don't even need to keep your original race), until it takes a full-round action to return to its original form.

Turning into a DMM persist cleric and then dismissing it after persisting a bunch of buffs comes to mind.  Away from PDFs, so don't have exact text though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on July 31, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
It takes 1000xp and gp and 24 hours to turn into Cohort-man, but  a full round action to revert.  Persisting buffs doesn't sound too cost effective.  Item Crafting is probably the best abuse.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on July 31, 2013, 12:49:55 PM
The Lightbringer Cleric ACF from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a very impressive Turn Undead replacement. Instead of turning them you deal 1d6/Cleric level of damage to all undead within 30ft (no 50% miss chance against Incorporeal undead either), with two drawbacks: The damage is reduced by 1d6 for every point of Turn Resistance the undead has (although it only reduces the damage for that undead), and they get a Will save for half.

I'm sorry, did I say the Will save was a drawback? I forgot something: The DC is obscene. 10+Cleric Level+Charisma Modifier. That's right, it starts at 11+Cha and scales rapidly. Level-appropriate undead, and even enemies 5 or so levels above you, will have a hard time making that save!

Oh, a few more things: Effects that normally boost your Turn Undead check instead boost the save DC (not the damage, the DC), and it still counts as Turn Undead for feats, items, prereqs, and class features. It's still a standard action, but there are ways to quicken it. It does mean Empower Turning is completely useless, but that's a small price to pay.

While not quite as good as just outright destroying the undead, the fact that this is both easier to use and damn difficult to resist is awesome.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on July 31, 2013, 12:54:29 PM
bloodlines (i think thats it, isnt it?)  :rolleyes

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on July 31, 2013, 12:58:46 PM
The Lightbringer Cleric ACF from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a very impressive Turn Undead replacement. Instead of turning them you deal 1d6/Cleric level of damage to all undead within 30ft (no 50% miss chance against Incorporeal undead either), with two drawbacks: The damage is reduced by 1d6 for every point of Turn Resistance the undead has (although it only reduces the damage for that undead), and they get a Will save for half.

I'm sorry, did I say the Will save was a drawback? I forgot something: The DC is obscene. 10+Cleric Level+Charisma Modifier. That's right, it starts at 11+Cha and scales rapidly. Level-appropriate undead, and even enemies 5 or so levels above you, will have a hard time making that save!

Oh, a few more things: Effects that normally boost your Turn Undead check instead boost the save DC (not the damage, the DC), and it still counts as Turn Undead for feats, items, prereqs, and class features. It's still a standard action, but there are ways to quicken it. It does mean Empower Turning is completely useless, but that's a small price to pay.

While not quite as good as just outright destroying the undead, the fact that this is both easier to use and damn difficult to resist is awesome.

It's balanced against Ravenloft undead, though. They get massively increased turn resistance, and DOUBLE the effect from Desecrate. Meaning, you need to pack SERIOUS punch to blow through that. Of course that when you apply it to normal undead, it seems so powerful...

EDIT: Nvm, it's just broken silly. Complete Divine has a similar ACF with the same will save.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 01:00:13 PM
Anarchomancer

Prereqs:
Spellcasting- arcane illisuions 1st through 5th level + polymorph
Skills- don't really matter
Feats- Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment or Illusion)


Ritual of the Dark Infiltrator (Su): By undertaking a daylong ritual known only to the anarchomancers of the Revolutionary League, the anarchomancer can transform herself into a completely different character-one with a different race, class, and even abilities the anarchomancer does not possess herself. Using the Ritual of the Dark Infiltrator costs 1,000 gp and drains the anarchomancer of 1,000 XP. The ritual takes 24 hours, during which time the anarchomancer must be undisturbed.
   When the ritual is finished, the anarchomancer chooses a new form, essentially creating a second character that she'll play instead of the anarchomancer. Calculate the anarchomancer's base Leadership score according to the rules for the Leadership feat in Chapter 4 of the DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide, the second character is constructed as if it were a cohort appropriate for a character with that Leadership score. Don't apply any reputation or leadership modifiers (great renown, has a familiar, and so on). The second character retains the memories, motivations, and goals of the anarchomancer's previous life, but she can't cast spells or use racial abilities that she does not possess anymore. Nothing short of a wish or miracle reveals the new character's former life as an anarchomancer. The anarchomancer gains new levels according to its character level as an anarchomancer, even if the second character is lower level.
   As a full-round action, the anarchomancer can return to her original character, shedding the original body in a burst of eldritch power.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 31, 2013, 01:54:26 PM
but you could summon advanced serpents? since they are basically the same as the normal, just 'older'

there are some pretty good serpents on the list, like Deathcoils and Flame Snakes
Sort of?

FAQ made a ruling on Polymorphing into advanced creatures (rather than the basic state block) is up to the DM for both sanity & speed. TO side could play with this but generally I think it'd be best to stay away from this area. Technically there is no exact rules on advancing a creature and what I mean by that isn't give it another d8 or w/e. I mean Feat/Ability/Skill/etc choices are not defined and thus any advanced creature is would be a unique creation. So what you'd really be asking isn't can you turn into a Deathcoil or even a 20HD Deathcoil, but if you can turn into this specific creature. So the short answer on that would sum up to "No, but ask your DM".
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 02:08:15 PM
makes sense
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 02:52:51 PM
An interesting feat:


Quote
Extra Divine Power

Type: General
Source: Dragon #343

You can use one of your divine granted abilities more often.
Prerequisite: A divinely granted class ability with a set number of uses per day.
Benefit: Choose a class ability you have from a class that grants divine spells and has a set number of uses per day, such as a shugenja's sense elements or a spirit shaman's spirit form. You may not select an ability granted by a domain. You may use the chosen ability two more times per day.
Special: You may gain this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different class ability.

Not sure that would fly in any reasonable setting. It is pretty clear that the meaning is a snake, as in any of the published creatures that are specifically called snakes. This is just willfully ignoring the context of the source of the ability and all but the text that you want.

Did I say it would? This is TO man. Of course I wouldn't actually expect anyone to bring this into a normal game  :p.

Furthermore, Serpent is a synonym for snake which means that any creature that could be called a serpent could also be called a snake. The ability itself uses the two terms interchangeably.   

Ummm... pg5 of Serpent Kingdoms has a list of all serpents.

Awww. Still, that doesn't rule out modifications of the creatures on that list. 

Also in addition to Page 5 there, unless otherwise specifically noted Templates are excluded. For instance, Summon Monster II can Summon an an Untemplated Lemure or a Celestial Eagle, not Half-Dragon versions of either.

And like Summon Monster, Summon Serpents contains no rules saying you can summon a Templated Creature, and it very much has a defined list that doesn't include any Templates or Templated Creatures on it. IE is says Flame Snake, not Paragon Fire Snake of Legend. Even lacking a defined list, it said Serpents, not Fiendish Serpents or Half-Dragon Serpents as the name change of Templated Creatures requires.

Fiendish serpents and half-dragon serpents are still serpents though right? Wouldn't that mean that they would be covered under "any sort of serpent". Are templated serpents a "sort" of serpent?   
 
but you could summon advanced serpents? since they are basically the same as the normal, just 'older'

there are some pretty good serpents on the list, like Deathcoils and Flame Snakes

also, it appears to have no limit / day, or is it just me?

I suppose it again depends on whether advanced serpents are a "sort" of serpent.

And yeah the ability seems to have no text stating the number of times you can use the ability. I think that would make it At-Will but I'm not sure.

but you could summon advanced serpents? since they are basically the same as the normal, just 'older'

there are some pretty good serpents on the list, like Deathcoils and Flame Snakes
Sort of?

FAQ made a ruling on Polymorphing into advanced creatures (rather than the basic state block) is up to the DM for both sanity & speed. TO side could play with this but generally I think it'd be best to stay away from this area. Technically there is no exact rules on advancing a creature and what I mean by that isn't give it another d8 or w/e. I mean Feat/Ability/Skill/etc choices are not defined and thus any advanced creature is would be a unique creation. So what you'd really be asking isn't can you turn into a Deathcoil or even a 20HD Deathcoil, but if you can turn into this specific creature. So the short answer on that would sum up to "No, but ask your DM".

I'm sure I'm missing something here but what does polymorphing have to do with summoning?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 03:25:04 PM
Ummm... pg5 of Serpent Kingdoms has a list of all serpents.

Awww. Still, that doesn't rule out modifications of the creatures on that list. 

yeah, but it doesn't say that you CAN add a template, doing so would change what the creature is. like adding paragon to a turtle for SNA or Vampire to a dolphin for Summon Monster

thats why i was dubious about an advanced version of a monster on the list.

of course if you can find an ability that adds a template to a summoned creature, then thats probably fair game
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 03:38:15 PM
Ummm... pg5 of Serpent Kingdoms has a list of all serpents.

Awww. Still, that doesn't rule out modifications of the creatures on that list. 

yeah, but it doesn't say that you CAN add a template, doing so would change what the creature is. like adding paragon to a turtle for SNA or Vampire to a dolphin for Summon Monster

thats why i was dubious about an advanced version of a monster on the list.

of course if you can find an ability that adds a template to a summoned creature, then thats probably fair game

Right but as long as it's still counts as a "sort" of serpent than you would still be able to summon it. I'm not sure if it would though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 03:49:03 PM
let's look at it this way.... can you apply any old template to a wolf when casting Summon Nature's Ally?

no, you cannot unless you have an ability to do so (Alienist comes to mind for Summon Monster). this is exactly the same type of thing.

you are limited to that specific list of creatures. even though there have been some serpent creatures from newer sources (ex. sailsnake), they are ineligible to summon since they are not on that specific list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 31, 2013, 03:58:08 PM
Feed the Hungry Slaad feat from Dragon #306. 1/day, for 1 minute/level you can reduce one of your mental ability score by 4 to increase another of them by 4.

Other feats in the same article include "use your astral cord as a whip-dagger with a scaling enhancement bonus" and "you can Track people even after they teleport or plane shift".
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
does it say if there's a min 1 limit for the ability score?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on July 31, 2013, 04:01:17 PM
There is.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 04:03:05 PM
but if you use it to not die, say from a poison by increasing con, that would be better
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 04:14:31 PM
let's look at it this way.... can you apply any old template to a wolf when casting Summon Nature's Ally?

no, you cannot unless you have an ability to do so (Alienist comes to mind for Summon Monster). this is exactly the same type of thing.

But the master of vipers ability specifically says "any" sort of serpent so I think there is an argument that you do have the ability to do so. I'm not sure if it's a correct argument but it doesn't seem cut-and-dried.

you are limited to that specific list of creatures. even though there have been some serpent creatures from newer sources (ex. sailsnake), they are ineligible to summon since they are not on that specific list.

Did I dispute this after you mentioned the list?  :???
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 04:21:50 PM
but they do list the valid serpents. it doesn't say you can add templates to the creatures. if you have say a half-marilith/half-deathcoils, that is no longer a deathcoils... it is now a half-marilith/half-deathcoils, which is not on the list.

just because it "doesn't say i can't" doesn't mean you can change the list given.

thats like a fighter trying to get Sculpt Spell using his bonus feats. there is a specific list that ability applies to, and you can only choose from that list.

but if you continue to not agree with what i'm saying, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this ability
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 04:33:29 PM
but they do list the valid serpents. it doesn't say you can add templates to the creatures. if you have say a half-marilith/half-deathcoils, that is no longer a deathcoils... it is now a half-marilith/half-deathcoils, which is not on the list.

just because it "doesn't say i can't" doesn't mean you can change the list given.

thats like a fighter trying to get Sculpt Spell using his bonus feats. there is a specific list that ability applies to, and you can only choose from that list.

but if you continue to not agree with what i'm saying, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this ability

Is a half-fiend human no longer a human? What about a Paragon human? Is it no longer a human? If a prestige class requires the character to be human than does a half-fiend human not qualify? is their a rules quote on this that I'm not aware of?

The Sculpt Spell fighter example is not applicable here because there really isn't anything like templates or advancement for feats.

Look, I'm not saying that the interpretation I'm arguing is necessarily correct. I'm just arguing this because I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as you believe. Feel free to stop arguing if you don't think this will go anywhere. I'm pretty sure someone will take your place in the argument anyways.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 04:42:15 PM
a half-fiend/half-human is a human for the purposes of many things, but its not a truly human its a 'half-breed', same with a paragon human, it is a human for the purposes of feats, etc. but it is no longer only a human, its a paragon human.

an example that actually exists to compare is a half-goblin from Dragonlance, yes its part human and part goblin, but not truly either.

the sculpt spell fighter feat thing is similar, because its trying to add something to a list that is not on an already set list.

i just don't understand the possibility to add to this list, when it's set in stone.
Quote
The term serpents includes all of the following creatures from the books published for the D&D game.

the Serpentfolk list actually includes templates, so those templated creatures (which could be pretty much any creature as long as it has the listed template) are included on that list.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 04:45:47 PM
a half-fiend/half-human is a human for the purposes of many things, but its not a truly human its a 'half-breed', same with a paragon human, it is a human for the purposes of feats, etc. but it is no longer only a human, its a paragon human.

an example that actually exists to compare is a half-goblin from Dragonlance, yes its part human and part goblin, but not truly either.

the sculpt spell fighter feat thing is similar, because its trying to add something to a list that is not on an already set list.

i just don't understand the possibility to add to this list, when it's set in stone.
Quote
The term serpents includes all of the following creatures from the books published for the D&D game.

the Serpentfolk list actually includes templates, so those templated creatures (which could be pretty much any creature as long as it has the listed template) are included on that list.

Hmmm...looking over the summon natures ally spell, the ability, and the list of serpents...yeah okay. I concede the point.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 04:47:10 PM
no worries :)

i definitely understand your view of why you'd think it'd work.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 31, 2013, 05:02:24 PM
The Lightbringer Cleric ACF from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a very impressive Turn Undead replacement. Instead of turning them you deal 1d6/Cleric level of damage to all undead within 30ft (no 50% miss chance against Incorporeal undead either), with two drawbacks: The damage is reduced by 1d6 for every point of Turn Resistance the undead has (although it only reduces the damage for that undead), and they get a Will save for half.

I'm sorry, did I say the Will save was a drawback? I forgot something: The DC is obscene. 10+Cleric Level+Charisma Modifier. That's right, it starts at 11+Cha and scales rapidly. Level-appropriate undead, and even enemies 5 or so levels above you, will have a hard time making that save!

Oh, a few more things: Effects that normally boost your Turn Undead check instead boost the save DC (not the damage, the DC), and it still counts as Turn Undead for feats, items, prereqs, and class features. It's still a standard action, but there are ways to quicken it. It does mean Empower Turning is completely useless, but that's a small price to pay.

While not quite as good as just outright destroying the undead, the fact that this is both easier to use and damn difficult to resist is awesome.

Hearing echoes of Psionics Is Borkny ringing in my head(s).
The scaling part.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 31, 2013, 05:06:07 PM
The Master of Vipers PRC from Serpent Kindoms gains this ability at 6th level:

Quote
Summon Serpents (Sp): At 6th level, a master of vipers can call any sort of serpent he has previously seen to fight or work for him. Two serpents of the same kind appear and obey the character's commands. For each new master of vipers level attained, an additional snake appears (three at 7th level, four at 8th level, five at 9th level, and six at 10th level). The summoned serpents are all the same kind. This ability otherwise functions like a summon nature's ally spell.

Depending on how you define "serpent" this could be very powerful. Off the top of my head, couldn't you use it to call the CR 26 creature Dendar the Night Serpent from Champions of Ruin?
Wow... what an idiotic ability... No limitations on CR, HD, or anything at all... and you get multiple ones... So you could summon 3 Sertrouses (Sertrousi? :p).
Call any sort of serpent eh?  Let's see if Pun-Pun decides to use Shapechange.

I was watching this level 5 kobold fiddle with his pet snake
... and now when I get visions of lollipops dancing in my head
they become real.

edit --- so a T.O. Time Travel Scrubber like Monty/Terminator
got/gets/is getting, to watch level 5 Pun-pun start to ascend. 
And giggle maniacally.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 05:08:37 PM
Requirements
To qualify to become a master of vipers, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Race: Yuan-ti.
Alignment: Any evil (usually chaotic evil).
Base Attack Bonus: +7.
Skill: Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks.
Feat: Great Fortitude.

the earliest entry i can see, would a changeling w Racial Emulation emulate the Yuan-ti and need 7 levels of say Ranger?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 31, 2013, 05:10:40 PM

Feed the Hungry Slaad feat from Dragon #306. 1/day, for 1 minute/level you can reduce one of your mental ability score by 4 to increase another of them by 4.

My kitty avatar thinks you are confusing his(my) real life.
 :twitch
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 31, 2013, 05:14:38 PM
That Anarchromancer ability
is stronger than Limited Wish
and available earlier, but more
expensive and you have to have
the rest of the pre-reqs + class.
edit --- not much of a problem.

Better than Chameleon semi-cheese.
Broader but slower than a Spell To Power Erudite.
 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 05:35:55 PM
That Anarchromancer ability
is stronger than Limited Wish
and available earlier, but more
expensive and you have to have
the rest of the pre-reqs + class.
edit --- not much of a problem.

Better than Chameleon semi-cheese.
Broader but slower than a Spell To Power Erudite.
 :)

one of the things i'd do for my new body.... like a Artificer and make a bunch of Tomes/Manuals and change the bonus type, then transform back and read em all
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 31, 2013, 06:25:45 PM
Dragon Mag has some pretty insane stuff huh?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on July 31, 2013, 06:27:17 PM
Edit

 :p

EDIT: Totally.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on July 31, 2013, 06:28:12 PM
:p

Edit: This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
 :D

yeah dragon stuff has some crazy things in it. but that's also true for the 1st party material too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 31, 2013, 07:23:16 PM
This isn't the thread I was looking for ...  :huh
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on August 01, 2013, 06:34:22 AM
a half-fiend/half-human is a human for the purposes of many things, but its not a truly human its a 'half-breed', same with a paragon human, it is a human for the purposes of feats, etc. but it is no longer only a human, its a paragon human.

an example that actually exists to compare is a half-goblin from Dragonlance, yes its part human and part goblin, but not truly either.

the sculpt spell fighter feat thing is similar, because its trying to add something to a list that is not on an already set list.

i just don't understand the possibility to add to this list, when it's set in stone.
Quote
The term serpents includes all of the following creatures from the books published for the D&D game.

the Serpentfolk list actually includes templates, so those templated creatures (which could be pretty much any creature as long as it has the listed template) are included on that list.

i find that hilarious.

your such a perfect, idealized example of your race that your no longer a true member of that race.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2013, 12:03:54 PM
i do think in some ways it's dumb.... but unfortunately by RAW its true :-p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on August 01, 2013, 01:50:41 PM
Has anyone here seen the Homeland Champion Weapon Special Ability from Champions of Valor (page 60)? It isn't useful in all cases, but on hit negative levels with no save are great for a +1 ability, even if only against a narrow range of enemies and only lasting while you hold the weapon.
That or I have a version of CoV with a wonderful, wonderful typo. Either way seems worth checking.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2013, 02:57:06 PM
could that work with the Acorn of Far Traveling? and have that oak tree be your homeland?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on August 01, 2013, 04:58:55 PM
It's the evil creature it's targeting that has to be in your homeland, no you. Thought the negative level seems to be independent of the bane-like effect, which is the bit that needs the location. So in theory you don't need it for the negative level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2013, 05:45:32 PM
sorry was going off memory... yeah it looks like the negative level part only requires them to be an enemy of your homeland, the bane they have to be an enemy of and in your homeland
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 01, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
You know, looking at the Spell. What's seen cannot be unseen.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on August 01, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
The acorn must be harvested from the Dryad's Tree, not a tree. Even a Redwood that has grown over the Dryad's Tree doesn't count.
To be fair, good luck harvesting an acorn from a Redwood.  Acorns are Oak only.

On another note, a Major Dragon bloodline grants an Extraordinary breath weapon dependent on the dragon type.  No notes are given for how often this may be used, so a logical fallback is the 1d4 round recharge for normal dragons.  Still, the ability to use Entangling Exhalation in an AMF should not be overlooked.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
thats pretty cool!

nice find, kind of like the Titan uber weapon trick
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 01, 2013, 07:56:32 PM
You know, looking at the Spell. What's seen cannot be unseen.

(click to show/hide)

So WotC wrote an ability that puts limitations on something that was already established to not have limitations.  Wouldn't be the first time - see the Divine Oracale's Prescient Sense or the Eternal Blade's Armored Uncanny Dodge. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on August 02, 2013, 12:18:25 AM
Soro, you'll have to parse your objections better. The additional benefit clause is for touching, not just being under the tree.

Speaking of DragMag315, page 34 seems to give infinite metamagic if you assume a defiler score? Am I missing something or did they forget to print what happens with a defiler score?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 02, 2013, 10:01:14 AM
Soro, you'll have to parse your objections better. The additional benefit clause is for touching, not just being under the tree.
So I should have mentioned there is no differance between a Dryad sitting on her tree and a Dryad standing two hundred and ninety nine feet away. Got it.

Also redwoods and lack of acorns? lol. I skipped the forestry merit badge, can you tell? :)

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on August 02, 2013, 09:34:04 PM
I can tell :p

So yeah, does anyone know what the recharge is actually supposed to be on the Major Dragon bloodline breath weapon?  Not sure if there was eratta on it or not, I just know it is explicitly (Ex), which is odd for a breath weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 02, 2013, 09:42:14 PM
The 3.5 version of Unearthed Arcana never got errata.  However, one of the big things about the book is it was given as-is with the publishers knowing it wasn't fully fleshed out.  It is up to the players to fill in the blanks.

If you're trying to use RAW on it, you're entirely missing the point of the book.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on August 02, 2013, 10:48:58 PM
The 3.5 version of Unearthed Arcana never got errata.  However, one of the big things about the book is it was given as-is with the publishers knowing it wasn't fully fleshed out.  It is up to the players to fill in the blanks.

If you're trying to use RAW on it, you're entirely missing the point of the book.

Makes sense... It's effectively a Rulesbook full of House Rules.

STILL.. Unfinished books seems like lazy work... hell, we have people here on these forums that have piles and piles of homebrew, and they double check their stuff. Rarely do i see a homebrew from Bhu or SirP with glaring errors and missing information such as this. I may disagree on the balance stuff, but most of the time, text and table agree, few grammatical errors, etc...

Is it much to ask the same standard of paid publishers? o.O
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 02, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
Makes sense... It's effectively a Rulesbook full of House Rules.

STILL.. Unfinished books seems like lazy work... hell, we have people here on these forums that have piles and piles of homebrew, and they double check their stuff. Rarely do i see a homebrew from Bhu or SirP with glaring errors and missing information such as this. I may disagree on the balance stuff, but most of the time, text and table agree, few grammatical errors, etc...

Is it much to ask the same standard of paid publishers? o.O

Apparently so.  Though I suspect that things turned out shitty because the publishers didn't collaborate properly and thus there were too many hands in the pot to keep it together.  I still have to wonder how in the hell the CM errata got added to the ToB errata though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 03, 2013, 12:40:00 PM
I suspect it was a giant middle finger to someone.

The presentation is actually pretty normal. The author of the ToB Errata opened CM's Errata and started editing the document. This is a quick and easy way to match font type & size for content that spans multiple files, when you are ready to finish your work you simply use Save As and save it as a new, renamed, file. However, CM's entries were not cleaned up prior to being published.

Either the guy working on that is making a point out of being told to immediately stop working on 3.5 and move to 4.0, or was fired during the Gleemax BS that hit the 339 (a consequence of such spawned these MMX boards btw), or perhaps the worst element it was a ploy by WotC to tell you 3.5 ended NOW. Either way, it was published to appear like someone had to save it and upload it without so much as being able to proof read it. So it's a middle finger to someone, either a worker-to-WotC or WotC-to-us for not moving onto and buying their shitty 4.0 products.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 03, 2013, 03:42:17 PM
More Ring of Mystic Fire/Lightning abuse.

Obtain immunity to Electricity & Fire, such as a Mechanatrix with Mantle of the Raging Flame, and abuse Discordant Malediction (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/discordant-malediction--872/). You'd deal a bonus 12d6 damage every time you cast a Spell (and maybe heal 7hp).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 03, 2013, 09:50:37 PM
A fun little feat:

Dungeoneer's Intuition: (http://dndtools.eu/feats/city-of-splendors-waterdeep--16/dungeoneers-intuition--779/) +Wis to my Trapsense bonus and I add that to my AC on surprise rounds? Sounds good to me!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lo77o on August 04, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
More Ring of Mystic Fire/Lightning abuse.

Obtain immunity to Electricity & Fire, such as a Mechanatrix with Mantle of the Raging Flame, and abuse Discordant Malediction (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/discordant-malediction--872/). You'd deal a bonus 12d6 damage every time you cast a Spell (and maybe heal 7hp).

(click to show/hide)

Wont you be forced to make huge concentration checks then to avoid loosing your spell?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on August 04, 2013, 06:04:46 PM
More Ring of Mystic Fire/Lightning abuse.

Obtain immunity to Electricity & Fire, such as a Mechanatrix with Mantle of the Raging Flame, and abuse Discordant Malediction (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/discordant-malediction--872/). You'd deal a bonus 12d6 damage every time you cast a Spell (and maybe heal 7hp).

(click to show/hide)

Wont you be forced to make huge concentration checks then to avoid loosing your spell?

Indeed. Concentration is one of the easiest checks for a caster though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lo77o on August 04, 2013, 06:17:17 PM
More Ring of Mystic Fire/Lightning abuse.

Obtain immunity to Electricity & Fire, such as a Mechanatrix with Mantle of the Raging Flame, and abuse Discordant Malediction (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/discordant-malediction--872/). You'd deal a bonus 12d6 damage every time you cast a Spell (and maybe heal 7hp).

(click to show/hide)

Wont you be forced to make huge concentration checks then to avoid loosing your spell?

Indeed. Concentration is one of the easiest checks for a caster though.

Yes i know.. but it can run up into several hundreds with the whole mystic fire/lightning abuse that he wrote about.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 04, 2013, 06:24:15 PM
More Ring of Mystic Fire/Lightning abuse.

Obtain immunity to Electricity & Fire, such as a Mechanatrix with Mantle of the Raging Flame, and abuse Discordant Malediction (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/discordant-malediction--872/). You'd deal a bonus 12d6 damage every time you cast a Spell (and maybe heal 7hp).

(click to show/hide)

Wont you be forced to make huge concentration checks then to avoid loosing your spell?

Indeed. Concentration is one of the easiest checks for a caster though.

Yes i know.. but it can run up into several hundreds with the whole mystic fire/lightning abuse that he wrote about.

Only if you're not immune to Electricity and Fire, which was Step 1 in his combo.  You'd only be taking 2d6 sonic (maybe, unless you energy sub'd it out).  The spell still requires a concentration check even if no damage is dealt, but that's a flat 15 + spell level - should be no problem.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 04, 2013, 08:23:13 PM
Some fun finds in the Author's Notes of this fic (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Natural-20).

Quote
D&D Tip #1: You know how Milo can Shatter wands and render wizards helpless? You can do that in D&D, too! If you destroy or steal (say by Shatter, Sunder, or Sleight of Hand) a Cleric's Holy Symbol, a Wizard's Spell Component Pouch, or a Druid's Holly and Mistletoe, that caster is now an Expert, Commoner, or Grizzly Bear, respectively.

D&D Tip #2: Speaking of Sleight of Hand, it's a DC 20 check to swipe something from another character. This is a fixed DC. That means that pick-pocketing Pelor is just as easy as pick-pocketing the city watch (caveat the first: the higher the target's level, the harder it is to get away with that without getting caught. So if you pick pocket Pelor, hope you have your smite-resistant pants on). You can take a -20 penalty to make a pick pocket attempt as a free action. You can do infinite free actions per round, so, if you can make a DC 40 Sleight of Hand check (even if it's only on a 20) then you can brute force every single item off of your mark on your turn. Curiously, this doesn't include 'sheathed weapons,' which have an insane DC of 50 (70 as a free action). You also can't steal held items, which takes a Disarm attempt. However, you can probably steal:

-Clothes, armour, etc.

-Wands, potions, etc.

-Many, many coins

-Holy symbols, spell component pouches, and the like

-Artifacts of Doom

(caveat the second: don't actually use this trick. It breaks the game in an un-fun way, and in any case, the 'infinite free actions' thing is kind of a myth—the rule is that you have a 'reasonable' number of free actions.)

Quote
D&D Tip: Complete Scoundrel's Nimble Charge skill trick (CS 83,87) allows you to charge or run over "a difficult surface" without needing to make a Balance check once per encounter. Consult your DM for the limits of that ability, but by a strict (ie, unrealistic) reading of the rule, it lets you run across clouds (DC 120) once a combat at level 2.

Under more realistic interpretations, you can still do really, really cool things with 100% reliability, such as charge across ropes, rigging, and (with Tumble) the weapons of your enemies. Combine with a Grapple-Firing Crossbow for extreme awesome.

Happy gaming, folks!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 04, 2013, 09:11:24 PM
Only if you're not immune to Electricity and Fire, which was Step 1 in his combo.  You'd only be taking 2d6 sonic (maybe, unless you energy sub'd it out).  The spell still requires a concentration check even if no damage is dealt, but that's a flat 15 + spell level - should be no problem.
Indeed, as a 5th level Bard Spell you could say this combo is 13th level and higher, by then you simply cannot fail (16 ranks, no natural 1 fail).

Provided you obtain immunity or mitigate the damage of course.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 04, 2013, 10:07:50 PM
I've meant to figure out these numbers before.  This just reminded me of it. 

A cleric needs his holy symbol for about 29% of his spells.  A druid needs his holly and mistletoe for about 37% of his spells.  And a sorcerer or wizard needs his spell component pouch for about 44% of his spells. 

Those first two numbers should be pretty solid.  The last number might actually be lower.  IMarvinTPA's search function doesn't distinguish between material components a spell component pouch provides and those it doesn't. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 04, 2013, 10:39:52 PM
I've meant to figure out these numbers before.  This just reminded me of it. 

A cleric needs his holy symbol for about 29% of his spells.  A druid needs his holly and mistletoe for about 37% of his spells.  And a sorcerer or wizard needs his spell component pouch for about 44% of his spells. 

Those first two numbers should be pretty solid.  The last number might actually be lower.  IMarvinTPA's search function doesn't distinguish between material components a spell component pouch provides and those it doesn't.
Does Catpnq's spellbook help?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 05, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Some fun finds in the Author's Notes of this fic (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Natural-20).

Quote
D&D Tip #1: You know how Milo can Shatter wands and render wizards helpless? You can do that in D&D, too! If you destroy or steal (say by Shatter, Sunder, or Sleight of Hand) a Cleric's Holy Symbol, a Wizard's Spell Component Pouch, or a Druid's Holly and Mistletoe, that caster is now an Expert, Commoner, or Grizzly Bear, respectively.

D&D Tip #2: Speaking of Sleight of Hand, it's a DC 20 check to swipe something from another character. This is a fixed DC. That means that pick-pocketing Pelor is just as easy as pick-pocketing the city watch (caveat the first: the higher the target's level, the harder it is to get away with that without getting caught. So if you pick pocket Pelor, hope you have your smite-resistant pants on). You can take a -20 penalty to make a pick pocket attempt as a free action. You can do infinite free actions per round, so, if you can make a DC 40 Sleight of Hand check (even if it's only on a 20) then you can brute force every single item off of your mark on your turn. Curiously, this doesn't include 'sheathed weapons,' which have an insane DC of 50 (70 as a free action). You also can't steal held items, which takes a Disarm attempt. However, you can probably steal:

-Clothes, armour, etc.

-Wands, potions, etc.

-Many, many coins

-Holy symbols, spell component pouches, and the like

-Artifacts of Doom

(caveat the second: don't actually use this trick. It breaks the game in an un-fun way, and in any case, the 'infinite free actions' thing is kind of a myth—the rule is that you have a 'reasonable' number of free actions.)

Quote
D&D Tip: Complete Scoundrel's Nimble Charge skill trick (CS 83,87) allows you to charge or run over "a difficult surface" without needing to make a Balance check once per encounter. Consult your DM for the limits of that ability, but by a strict (ie, unrealistic) reading of the rule, it lets you run across clouds (DC 120) once a combat at level 2.

Under more realistic interpretations, you can still do really, really cool things with 100% reliability, such as charge across ropes, rigging, and (with Tumble) the weapons of your enemies. Combine with a Grapple-Firing Crossbow for extreme awesome.

Happy gaming, folks!

nice! charge across a thread after shooting the needle out of a blowgun
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 05, 2013, 01:06:44 PM
Does Catpnq's spellbook help?

I'd offer to help, but life is a never ending litany of pain, suffering, and misery. Misery without any sign of end or relief. Every waking moment is pain and I never sleep. So maybe I'll have time to look into this on Thursday. No promises.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 05, 2013, 01:56:38 PM
Does Catpnq's spellbook help?

I'd offer to help, but life is a never ending litany of pain, suffering, and misery. Misery without any sign of end or relief. Every waking moment is pain and I never sleep. So maybe I'll have time to look into this on Thursday. No promises.
Oh no! I hope you feel better soon... :/
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lo77o on August 05, 2013, 02:58:02 PM
Only if you're not immune to Electricity and Fire, which was Step 1 in his combo.  You'd only be taking 2d6 sonic (maybe, unless you energy sub'd it out).  The spell still requires a concentration check even if no damage is dealt, but that's a flat 15 + spell level - should be no problem.
Indeed, as a 5th level Bard Spell you could say this combo is 13th level and higher, by then you simply cannot fail (16 ranks, no natural 1 fail).

Provided you obtain immunity or mitigate the damage of course.

Ok, im confused. Let me know where im getting this wrong.

Lets say you get Discordant Malediction cast, with the 2 rings you mentioned. That means every time you cast a spell with a verbal effect, you will deal 2d6+14d6+14d6 (30d6 total) damage to everyone within 10 feet, including your self. So that's an average of 105 damage per person.

So far i think im right on the spot.

So even if you only have 1 thing within 10 feet of you. Such as an enemy, or some poor little bird or rat who happens to be near by, and if you happen to be immune to all the damage your self, it is still a DC 125 check.

It might be the following sentence that confuses me. (She must then succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + damage dealt + spell level) to avoid losing the spell.)

I might be messing up "damage dealt: as in how much damage you dealt" with "damage received: as in how much damage you received"

Ohh well...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 05, 2013, 03:31:44 PM
damage dealt to you
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 05, 2013, 05:04:36 PM
Damage dealt will almost always mean damage actually dealt, not damage rolled or some such.  So if you had Ice Axe cast and got an AoO against a caster that had 10 Cold Resistance, and only rolled 8 damage, the caster wouldn't have to make a concentration check because no damage was actually dealt.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 05, 2013, 05:29:10 PM
I suspect it was a giant middle finger to someone.

The presentation is actually pretty normal. The author of the ToB Errata opened CM's Errata and started editing the document. This is a quick and easy way to match font type & size for content that spans multiple files, when you are ready to finish your work you simply use Save As and save it as a new, renamed, file. However, CM's entries were not cleaned up prior to being published.

Either the guy working on that is making a point out of being told to immediately stop working on 3.5 and move to 4.0, or was fired during the Gleemax BS that hit the 339 (a consequence of such spawned these MMX boards btw), or perhaps the worst element it was a ploy by WotC to tell you 3.5 ended NOW. Either way, it was published to appear like someone had to save it and upload it without so much as being able to proof read it. So it's a middle finger to someone, either a worker-to-WotC or WotC-to-us for not moving onto and buying their shitty 4.0 products.

Boss shows up at underlings desk:  "Hey stop working on that 3e errata."
underling says:  :???
Boss:  "You're being reassigned to the 4e Carpet Errata/Nerf Bombing department."
underling says:  "Can I bring my friends ?!"
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 05, 2013, 07:16:03 PM
thats what i meant by dealt to you
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 05, 2013, 07:46:21 PM
It might be the following sentence that confuses me. (She must then succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + damage dealt + spell level) to avoid losing the spell.)
I might be messing up "damage dealt: as in how much damage you dealt" with "damage received: as in how much damage you received"

It's the damage dealt to you.  It uses the same language as the Concentration skill. 
Say you're a rogue trying to use Disable Device, and are damaged during the attempt.  You have to make a Concentration Check (DC 10 + damage dealt).  Under your reading, you'd only have to make a DC 10 check because you didn't deal any damage by using Disable Device, which is obviously not the intent.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 05, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
I'm pretty sure Lo77o doesn't view the concentration check from discordant malediction as having any connection to the concentration check made for taking damage while casting.  Actually, I agree with this assessment.  RAW, casting a spell while under the effects of discordant malediction requires the DC 15 + damage + spell level concentration check noted in the spell and then, if the caster actually took damage, a separate DC 10 + damage + spell level concentration check per the normal rules of taking damage while casting spells. 

Now, I do think the phrase "damage dealt" in discordant malediction was intended to mean "damage dealt to the caster," not "damage dealt by the spell," but I can see the ambiguity.  I think the wording in the spell was meant as a parallel for the wording for being damaged while casting in the concentration skill, but can't offer more than opinion. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TiaC on August 05, 2013, 09:06:01 PM
Some fun finds in the Author's Notes of this fic (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Natural-20).

Quote
D&D Tip #1: You know how Milo can Shatter wands and render wizards helpless? You can do that in D&D, too! If you destroy or steal (say by Shatter, Sunder, or Sleight of Hand) a Cleric's Holy Symbol, a Wizard's Spell Component Pouch, or a Druid's Holly and Mistletoe, that caster is now an Expert, Commoner, or Grizzly Bear, respectively.

D&D Tip #2: Speaking of Sleight of Hand, it's a DC 20 check to swipe something from another character. This is a fixed DC. That means that pick-pocketing Pelor is just as easy as pick-pocketing the city watch (caveat the first: the higher the target's level, the harder it is to get away with that without getting caught. So if you pick pocket Pelor, hope you have your smite-resistant pants on). You can take a -20 penalty to make a pick pocket attempt as a free action. You can do infinite free actions per round, so, if you can make a DC 40 Sleight of Hand check (even if it's only on a 20) then you can brute force every single item off of your mark on your turn. Curiously, this doesn't include 'sheathed weapons,' which have an insane DC of 50 (70 as a free action). You also can't steal held items, which takes a Disarm attempt. However, you can probably steal:

-Clothes, armour, etc.

-Wands, potions, etc.

-Many, many coins

-Holy symbols, spell component pouches, and the like

-Artifacts of Doom

(caveat the second: don't actually use this trick. It breaks the game in an un-fun way, and in any case, the 'infinite free actions' thing is kind of a myth—the rule is that you have a 'reasonable' number of free actions.)

Quote
D&D Tip: Complete Scoundrel's Nimble Charge skill trick (CS 83,87) allows you to charge or run over "a difficult surface" without needing to make a Balance check once per encounter. Consult your DM for the limits of that ability, but by a strict (ie, unrealistic) reading of the rule, it lets you run across clouds (DC 120) once a combat at level 2.

Under more realistic interpretations, you can still do really, really cool things with 100% reliability, such as charge across ropes, rigging, and (with Tumble) the weapons of your enemies. Combine with a Grapple-Firing Crossbow for extreme awesome.

Happy gaming, folks!
There are a few other tricks I've liked from this such as casting Locate Object on clothing to find someone. Recently, in attempting to scry someone who they knew of, they wanted a possession of that person. The two ideas they came up with were using a public building as it belongs to all citizens of that nation, and writing a legal document that transferred ownership of a sheet of paper.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 05, 2013, 09:11:02 PM
Please don't RAWtard this. All Concentration Checks in the game use "damage dealt", even the Concentration Skill it's self.

Try not to make wild claims like you need to succeed on a DC 10+20d6*Targets Concentration Check to cast because Maw of Chaos bitch slapped some creatures. Or Quickened Fireball prompts a DC 10+10d6 Concentration Check to cast your next Spell.

It's retarded and 100% against the Concentration Skill entry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on August 05, 2013, 10:08:21 PM
The blood frenzySpC spell (Druid 2) activates the targeted creature's pre-existing rage ability without expending a daily use of that ability. An item of continuous blood frenzy is 12,000gp. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 05, 2013, 11:29:10 PM
I'm pretty sure Lo77o doesn't view the concentration check from discordant malediction as having any connection to the concentration check made for taking damage while casting.  Actually, I agree with this assessment.  RAW, casting a spell while under the effects of discordant malediction requires the DC 15 + damage + spell level concentration check noted in the spell and then, if the caster actually took damage, a separate DC 10 + damage + spell level concentration check per the normal rules of taking damage while casting spells. 

Now, I do think the phrase "damage dealt" in discordant malediction was intended to mean "damage dealt to the caster," not "damage dealt by the spell," but I can see the ambiguity.  I think the wording in the spell was meant as a parallel for the wording for being damaged while casting in the concentration skill, but can't offer more than opinion.

The fact that you need to make 2 concentration checks is correct, but my point was that since the spell so obviously mirrors the Concentration skill, it would be absurd to think that they mean two different things. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 06, 2013, 06:28:19 AM
The blood frenzySpC spell (Druid 2) activates the targeted creature's pre-existing rage ability without expending a daily use of that ability. An item of continuous blood frenzy is 12,000gp. :p
That's my secret...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 06, 2013, 02:34:13 PM
another table mistake that makes a class better

the Eidoloncer's spellcasting increases by every level, not just 1-19

Quote
Spellcasting: An eidoloncer advances her spellcasting ability at every level in the eidoloncer class.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 06, 2013, 05:36:58 PM
The blood frenzySpC spell (Druid 2) activates the targeted creature's pre-existing rage ability without expending a daily use of that ability. An item of continuous blood frenzy is 12,000gp. :p
That's my secret...
(click to show/hide)

Wow  :clap ... feels like Psi recharge.
Does it work on other semi-Rage-like things?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 06, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
While casting about looking to save my butt on a different thread
... I found this, from ---> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

(click to show/hide)

So a level 1 psion can now fest a level 3 power 1/day.
Early entry gold ... can you say Mind Mage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 06, 2013, 06:50:07 PM
Quote
Benefit: Once per day, you can expend your psionic focus while manifesting detect psionics and gain the psionic equivalent to the arcane sight spell.
You are Manifesting a 1st level Power to gain the the benefit of a Spell, how is this a Psionic early entry trick?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on August 07, 2013, 09:51:25 AM
The Amulet of DeceptionDr319 is a cheap item that gives you an alternate appearance when scryed upon (no save).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 07, 2013, 11:36:49 AM
Anathema (http://dndtools.eu/spells/champions-of-ruin--27/anathema--274/) is a 9th level spell that you may only cast on a member of your own faith.

The range is "does the other guy exist and is he lower level than me?" If that holds true, and the DM doesn't say no...

The target permanently loses the ability to cast Divine spells, and to draw upon his deity's power for any sort of divine-sourced class features (including, explicitly, the ability to turn or rebuke undead.)

Members of the same faith aren't allowed to talk to, look at, or acknowledge your victim. If they die, they immediately are sent to the Wall of the Faithless in Faerun.

It may be removed by them either changing their faith (FIND A NEW GOD, HERETIC), or by receiving an atonement spell from a spellcaster of higher level than you.

To clarify: a spellcaster of higher level than you, who instinctively knows to ignore that heretic over there.

I swear, this spell is just dickish in so many ways...

EDIT: Advice (http://"http://dndtools.eu/spells/oriental-adventures--96/advice--2054/") is such a fun spell; it's Suggestion, except without a wordcount limit and able to force people to kill themselves.

Sure, they get a second save, but that is highly abuseable...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on August 07, 2013, 01:11:10 PM
The Fierce Mind (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Fierce_Mind) feat lets a shifter expend a use of shifting to negate a fear effect targeting them. It's a way to cheat the requirements of Craven (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Craven).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 01:16:58 PM
you could try to bypass it via 'immune to mind-affecting effects' similar to how a Dread Witch cannot bypass mind-affecting immunity
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 07, 2013, 04:02:05 PM
I know people give Truenaming a hard time because there's a feat that makes it harder to use your class features, but I may have found one that is worse. Behold, Snatch Trophey from CoR:

(click to show/hide)

Other than doing 1d6 damage at will as a free action to a dying enemy (and yes, it has to be an enemy in the negative HP values), this feat provides literally no benefit. It serves as a prerequisite for another feat, but that one is fairly garbage (it creates a fear effect 1/round when you use the Snatch Trophy feat, and is vastly inferior to other fear effects).


Who thought this was a good idea for a feat?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
snatch up ears of your enemies to show your king as proof of your deeds.

snatch up the scalps of of their head and recieve payment for killing them.

would the entire top of their head count as a small body part? or their throat? eyeballs?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nanshork on August 07, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
snatch up ears of your enemies to show your king as proof of your deeds.

snatch up the scalps of of their head and recieve payment for killing them.

would the entire top of their head count as a small body part? or their throat? eyeballs?

Remember, you can only do 1d6 damage.  Also you can cut parts off of dead things without a feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 07, 2013, 04:40:42 PM
Quote
Benefit: Once per day, you can expend your psionic focus while manifesting detect psionics and gain the psionic equivalent to the arcane sight spell.
You are Manifesting a 1st level Power to gain the the benefit of a Spell, how is this a Psionic early entry trick?

I'm reading it in the ballpark of a Heighten metapsi(magic).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on August 07, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Quote
Benefit: Once per day, you can expend your psionic focus while manifesting detect psionics and gain the psionic equivalent to the arcane sight spell.
You are Manifesting a 1st level Power to gain the the benefit of a Spell, how is this a Psionic early entry trick?

I'm reading it in the ballpark of a Heighten metapsi(magic).
To clarify, the reading your advocating is that it allows you to manifest a 3rd level power?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 07, 2013, 04:50:53 PM
Yes.

Other than the lack of more specific language
like the 3.0e Heighten Metapsi, we do know
the level of the spell equivalent.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 04:53:01 PM
snatch up ears of your enemies to show your king as proof of your deeds.

snatch up the scalps of of their head and recieve payment for killing them.

would the entire top of their head count as a small body part? or their throat? eyeballs?

Remember, you can only do 1d6 damage.  Also you can cut parts off of dead things without a feat.
1d6 damage is dealt, but they might bleed to death when you slit their throats

from Knightly Orders of Ansalon's Blood Oath Archer PrC...

Quote
Blood Oath Archery (Ex) Your skill with a bow is
enhanced by the fear you instill in those who witness it.
At 1st level, your training and focus provide you with a +1
insight bonus to attack rolls with any longbow or shortbow
(including composite bows). This bonus increases to +2 at
3rd level and +3 at 5th level.
In addition, you may attempt to demoralize an
opponent (see the Intimidate skill description in the
Player’s Handbook) as part of any full attack made with
a longbow or shortbow. You add the Blood Oath archery
bonus to your Intimidate check when attempting to
demoralize. This check takes place after you have made
your full attack and affects only the target of your attack.

[w Imperious Command] oops i made you cower in fear before i shoot you at a much lower AC ;)

Intimidating Charge feat in the book gives this ability to demoralize as part of a mounted charge.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nanshork on August 07, 2013, 05:02:47 PM
snatch up ears of your enemies to show your king as proof of your deeds.

snatch up the scalps of of their head and recieve payment for killing them.

would the entire top of their head count as a small body part? or their throat? eyeballs?

Remember, you can only do 1d6 damage.  Also you can cut parts off of dead things without a feat.
1d6 damage is dealt, but they might bleed to death when you slit their throats

That's DM Fiat, and anyways they are already bleeding to death because they have to be in negative hp for you to use the feat on them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 05:17:28 PM
well of course, because it depends on what the DM considers a 'small body part'
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nanshork on August 07, 2013, 05:24:33 PM
well of course, because it depends on what the DM considers a 'small body part'

My brain just went somewhere very wrong...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on August 07, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
well of course, because it depends on what the DM considers a 'small body part'

Regardless of what your DM says you can cut off, mechanically it deals 1d6 damage. You DM might say you can take their throat as a trophy, but it doesn't kill them - it deals 1d6 damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
of course by RAW yeah, but it would make sense that they would bleed out depending on where you cut. but that's of course up to the DM


yeah i know, my mind went there too :-p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Quillwraith on August 07, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
I kinda want to argue that if you reduce someone to negative HP, you can use the feat on them from then on even if they recover or are healed.
...
But that would be dumb.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nanshork on August 07, 2013, 05:43:43 PM
of course by RAW yeah, but it would make sense that they would bleed out depending on where you cut. but that's of course up to the DM


yeah i know, my mind went there too :-p

 :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 07, 2013, 05:53:05 PM
well of course, because it depends on what the DM considers a 'small body part'

My brain just went somewhere very wrong...

You're dying.  You've just had your  :whistle sliced off too.
Your last thought is:  "I don't want to roll or role -play a Eunuch Warlock."
... darkness
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
haha! and that PrC is pretty crappy on top of being stripped of your... dignity

I kinda want to argue that if you reduce someone to negative HP, you can use the feat on them from then on even if they recover or are healed.
...
But that would be dumb.

i don't see how you could argue that? you drop a creature into negatives and have to be adjacent to the dead or dying creature to take the free action.

this requires the creature to be adjacent to you AND dead/dying, if either not 'true' then you cannot perform the free action
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Quillwraith on August 07, 2013, 06:36:15 PM
Benefit: After dealing a creature enough damage to drop it to negative hit points, you can slice or pry off a trophy as a free action. You must be adjacent to the dead or dying creature. The trophy could be a small body part such as a finger or ear. Carving a trophy in this manner requires a light slashing or piercing weapon and deals 1d6 points of damage to the target creature. (A creature with regeneration can regrow the severed body part.) Alternatively, you can take a small item worn or carried by your fallen foe, such as a piece of jewelry, pouch, potion, light weapon, or helmet, in which case the victim takes no damage. The snatched item can weigh no more than 2 pounds. You must have a free hand to collect the trophy.
It doesn't say how long after, is what I meant. Your interpretation is completely right, though, I was just mentioning an odd thought.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 07, 2013, 07:09:50 PM
It does have a redeeming quality: Since it's a free action, you can outright murder anyone below 0 HP (even if they have Diehard) by using it multiple times in the same turn (just take a free action to drop whatever is in the hand you want to designate as "free").
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 07:57:47 PM
no worries

yeah, by slicing bits and pieces off of them ;)

am i blind? or does the AoO not require you to hit the creature that provoked? i can't find it in the SRD or Rules Compendium on pgs 18-19 it only mentions it is a melee attack

if someone finds where it says 'attack the person provoking', that'd be great
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 07, 2013, 08:01:35 PM
You can also basically strip them in 6 seconds, grabbing all their items and then dropping them...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 07, 2013, 08:03:11 PM
oh and... if you cut them up enough, every part of them is now a 'small body part'
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Tohron on August 07, 2013, 11:04:20 PM
Yeah, think if you chop off all the fingers of a Frenzied Berserker, you could make them drop their weapon.  You could also blind a spellcaster using Death Ward (assuming you're able to close to melee with the caster in the first place).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on August 08, 2013, 12:24:08 AM
Yeah, think if you chop off all the fingers of a Frenzied Berserker, you could make them drop their weapon.  You could also blind a spellcaster using Death Ward (assuming you're able to close to melee with the caster in the first place).

Impossible!  There's nothing in the rules that covers that!  You're relying solely on common sense and real-world logic to make such a ruling, which goes completely against RAW!
 :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 08, 2013, 01:44:06 AM
Chop off their arm or hand since you need a hand to wield most weapons ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on August 08, 2013, 02:11:44 AM
Is Snatch Trophy the first official effect to which the Regenerate spell is a solution?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on August 08, 2013, 02:22:48 AM
Nope, I believe Vorpal is.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 08, 2013, 10:16:04 AM
EMS are on scene at a MVA, the patient lost his right hand in the accident. Thinking quickly one of them places the right hand in a plastic bag, the other asks him why he did that and the first tells him so they can stitch it back on. They transport and the nursing staff is amazing at the insight as the operation proves successful.

A short time later (busy weekend) another MVA happens this time a member of the nursing staff is there, having come on scene on her way to work. The patient is headless but thinking quickly the nurse bags the head and calls 911. The EMS crew gets on scene and immediately ask why she bagged the head, she tells them so they can stitch it back on at the hospital. With an audible groan they tell her the patient died. She says no, she obtained a set of vitals from him, he is alive.

The smartass EMS crew member, tired of the nurse's BS, asks her if she put the head in a bag. Of course she says yes (it's in plain sight). In then asks if the bag is made out of plastic and again she says yes. She then asks what this has to do with anything and the smartass EMS crew member explains you cannot breath through plastic. When she put the head in the bag she suffocated her patient. Horrified at the damage to her image, she drops the bag and says she was just on her lunch break, it's not her patient, and she doesn't know what is going on. She'll be at the nurse's station if they need her.

And that is how you get a fucking nurse off your scene.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on August 08, 2013, 11:29:13 AM
Not sure if this has ever been discussed before, but I just had a DM use one against me:  Mirror of Opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition).  This creates an exact duplicate of yourself, including all magic and items.

If you purposefully duplicated yourself and then hit your duplicate with a Dominate Person/Monster, you've got a best new friend and/or clone.  Heck, maybe use the Diplomacy rules to just make this person your fanatic follower.

RAW, they are your exact duplicate, thus they share your same alignment, feats, XP, etc.  Surely something can be done with that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 08, 2013, 11:31:05 AM
umm.... wow!!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: sirpercival on August 08, 2013, 11:55:24 AM
Not sure if this has ever been discussed before, but I just had a DM use one against me:  Mirror of Opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition).  This creates an exact duplicate of yourself, including all magic and items.

If you purposefully duplicated yourself and then hit your duplicate with a Dominate Person/Monster, you've got a best new friend and/or clone.  Heck, maybe use the Diplomacy rules to just make this person your fanatic follower.

RAW, they are your exact duplicate, thus they share your same alignment, feats, XP, etc.  Surely something can be done with that?
Mindrape, baby!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 08, 2013, 12:22:45 PM
Fusion+Mirror of Opposition=Stupidity. It doesn't have to be your clone, just someone who you want to fuse with.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 08, 2013, 01:21:33 PM
what if you cast Body Outside Body and then use the Mirror?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on August 08, 2013, 01:56:02 PM
Not sure if this has ever been discussed before, but I just had a DM use one against me:  Mirror of Opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition).  This creates an exact duplicate of yourself, including all magic and items.

If you purposefully duplicated yourself and then hit your duplicate with a Dominate Person/Monster, you've got a best new friend and/or clone.  Heck, maybe use the Diplomacy rules to just make this person your fanatic follower.

RAW, they are your exact duplicate, thus they share your same alignment, feats, XP, etc.  Surely something can be done with that?

It only says that they attack you. It never says they fight you to the death. Write into your backstory that whenever you meet a clone of yourself, you stop attacking them after a single shot, then become friends with them. Just make sure neither of you ever get defeated and you have a perfect duplicate of yourself, and all your gear indefinitely.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 08, 2013, 04:11:31 PM
Both me and my mirror Kitty avatar
paw around the back side of the mirror
to see if either of us are back there.

Then one of the 4 of us makes a Will save
(that mirror nuP-nuP is F-:fu-ing around)
... but keeps quiet cuz this is some funny stuff.

[editor's note:  1/2 a kitty avatar is 5x the wack-a-doodle]
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on August 09, 2013, 12:38:46 AM
Not sure if this has ever been discussed before, but I just had a DM use one against me:  Mirror of Opposition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition).  This creates an exact duplicate of yourself, including all magic and items.

If you purposefully duplicated yourself and then hit your duplicate with a Dominate Person/Monster, you've got a best new friend and/or clone.  Heck, maybe use the Diplomacy rules to just make this person your fanatic follower.

RAW, they are your exact duplicate, thus they share your same alignment, feats, XP, etc.  Surely something can be done with that?
I think that domination counts as 'defeat', but ymmv. Defeat is not defined, to my knowledge, but encounter explanation and XP rewards likely have pithy content.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 09, 2013, 02:06:32 AM
From Oriental Adventures...
Furious weapon increases your rage abilities by 2.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on August 09, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
Instant Summons on mirror of opposition.
Contingent Shatter upon your imminent demise (AoE crystal breaking shatter right before I would die).
Intentionally fail the mirrors save.
Contingent spell of swap places with other me. (there are a few).

It's like having extra lives.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 09, 2013, 01:06:32 PM
From Oriental Adventures...
Furious weapon increases your rage abilities by 2.
*polite cough*
Mantle of Rage (Online (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MagicItems.pdf), 4,000gp) grants you the ability to Rage as a 1st level Barbarian. It's important to note that the Mantle it's self doesn't directly grant Rage usage nor does it have charges, as it says it gives you access to a Class Feature as X level Class. Meaning once you've used it, you can pass it to your buddy and they can use it to enter Rage as well. Couple this with a +1 Furious Gauntlet (8,302gp) and potentially everyone in your party can access Greater Rage once per day.

And don't forget Lord of Darkness has Rhul, aka "Battlewine" (a checmial listed in a side bar in another book, forgot which). For 50gp you obtain a +4 Alchemical Bonus to Str/Con and -2 AC for one minute. Additionally, unlike Rage, a DC 16 Will Save lets you choose to do whatever the heck you want (cast a spell, use a wand, fire a bow, etc). And finally, it is Alchemical Bonuses so they stack with Rage. So good news to the Barbarian I guess, but imho better news to the party that replaced the Barbarian with someone useful. Instant Hulk mode, in a jar.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 09, 2013, 02:18:19 PM
were-, anthropmorphic, symbiotic, and tauric badger, dire badger, dire wolverine, wolverine
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 09, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
OA Eunuch Warlock PrC can be taken by Elves
and not suffer at all from becoming a Eunuch.

 :puke ... ewwww

 ;) ... F-ing Elves
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: FBT on August 09, 2013, 06:25:07 PM
The Spot the Weak Point skill trick from Complete Scoundrel lets you have any one attack you make to be treated as a touch attack. It specifically says that you may use this with a ranged attack (if you are within 30 feet). Now, common sense says that an attack like that with a ranged weapon would be treated as a ranged touch attack, but by a strict reading of RAW, it's just treated as a plain old touch attack. So now you have a way of making a touch attack (which is a kind of melee attack) with a ranged weapon. I have no idea what you would use this for, but making a melee attack with ranged weapon seems like the kind of thing that should be useful somehow or another.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 09, 2013, 06:55:04 PM
Quote
Benefit: As a standard action, you can attempt a Spot check to find a weakness in your opponent’s defenses. The DC of this check equals the opponent’s AC. If the check succeeds, your next attack against that opponent (which must be made no later than your next turn) is treated as a touch attack.
If you use a ranged weapon to deliver the attack, your opponent must be within 30 feet of you in order for you to benefit from the trick

umm... this would be true if it said melee touch attack and didn't refer to a ranged touch attack with that section. but since it only states that the attack turns into a touch attack, it remains the same melee or ranged as it was.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 09, 2013, 11:39:42 PM
From Oriental Adventures...
Furious weapon increases your rage abilities by 2.
Oooo... Thanks for reminding me of this.  A furious berserker (UE) greatsword would be a nice weapon for my party Barbarian.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demiurge on August 12, 2013, 07:34:20 AM
This is only possible in pathfinder, but rings of revelation (if I'm understanding this correctly) seem to be overpowered when used with UMD. (The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself)
(Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.)

ex: Ring of Revelation (superior): molten skin (immune to fire) + Necklace of fireballs VII (58d6 damage in 20ft radius that you are completely immune to)
You can also get immunity to acid, cold, and electricity in this manner.
There are also rings of revelation that give other bonuses as well.
Ring of Revelation (lesser): bonded mount - grants druid animal companion equal to oracle level
Ring of Revelation (superior): war sight - roll three times for initiative and take best, always act in surprise round
________________________________________________________
In pathfinder (possibly in 3.5) you can take improved familiar (pseudodragon) and then use Polymorph any object to turn your familiar into a medium sized dragon (edit: permanently) (which you can ride if you're small). I posted a thread about this and no one has commented and told me that I overlooked anything...so for now I'm assuming this works as I think it does. I'm sure there have to be some other things that could combine with this (spells or items from Draconomicon possibly?).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Tohron on August 12, 2013, 11:55:33 AM
This is only possible in pathfinder, but rings of revelation (if I'm understanding this correctly) seem to be overpowered when used with UMD. (The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself)
(Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.)

ex: Ring of Revelation (superior): molten skin (immune to fire) + Necklace of fireballs VII (58d6 damage in 20ft radius that you are completely immune to)
You can also get immunity to acid, cold, and electricity in this manner.
There are also rings of revelation that give other bonuses as well.
Ring of Revelation (lesser): bonded mount - grants druid animal companion equal to oracle level
Ring of Revelation (superior): war sight - roll three times for initiative and take best, always act in surprise round

The question is, are the Rings of Revelation actually requiring a "class feature", or just requiring you to "be" a class?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demiurge on August 12, 2013, 01:42:34 PM
The description in the ring entry states "A ring of revelation is a divine item attuned to a particular oracular mystery and containing a revelation associated with that mystery (see the oracle class description). While wearing the ring, an oracle has access to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself".

In the oracle class description it states "The following are the class features of the oracle." and mystery is listed third after armor and weapon proficiency and spells.

In the skill description for UMD it states "Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature."

So as I read it, you have to get 20 + the level of oracle required to get that specific revelation (edit: on your UMD check) and you're set. Bonuses to skills aren't the hardest thing to acquire.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on August 12, 2013, 02:23:29 PM
The description in the ring entry states "A ring of revelation is a divine item attuned to a particular oracular mystery and containing a revelation associated with that mystery (see the oracle class description). While wearing the ring, an oracle has access to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself".

So, 'an oracle' (class, not feature; not valid for UMD) gains access to a revelation while wearing the ring, as long as he has 'the appropriate mystery' (class feature; valid for UMD), and meets the '[class] level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself' (class level; apparently 'effective level' could cover this).

Looks like it's not a valid use, as you can only emulate Class Features, Ability Scores, Races, or Alignments, with UMD. You actually have to BE an oracle to use the ring.

Now, an oracle may UMD any ring he wants to, as long as he can emulate having the proper mystery.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demiurge on August 12, 2013, 03:28:19 PM
Ahh. It seems I misread that then. It looks like Oracles get a lot more power from the items and everyone else is left out of the fun.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 12, 2013, 03:35:56 PM
Looks like you can dip one level of Oracle and then use UMD to get all of the bonuses though. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 12, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
The Tentacle enhancement from Underdark is another version of Vorpal. It's a +4 bonus, triggers on any successful critical hit, and the list of immune enemies is less DM Fiat, more concrete.

It does offer a save though (DC21 Fort Negates, but the damage is still dealt).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 12, 2013, 05:12:12 PM
The Tentacle enhancement from Underdark is another version of Vorpal. It's a +4 bonus, triggers on any successful critical hit, and the list of immune enemies is less DM Fiat, more concrete.

It does offer a save though (DC21 Fort Negates, but the damage is still dealt).

We really need to sift through the books and see if there's a way to increase the DC for such enhancements...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 12, 2013, 05:30:46 PM
have a aptitude tentacle necklace on a Nimblewight Disciple of Dispater 4 and Imp Crit + Lightning Maces + Roundabout Kick has a crit range of 3-20 and, each successful crit gets and extra attack and save vs. insta-death, and each crit threat gets an extra attack and save vs. insta-death
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 13, 2013, 06:30:46 PM
From Oriental Adventures...

Daidoji Bodyguard PrC is in the Crane Clan section.
Lawful, +5 BAB, Imp.Initiative, Dodge, Toughness.

The 1st level ability "Defensive refocus" is interesting.
You take the Total Defense action, you don't move
and the next round you move up in Initiative count
as if you rolled a 20. 
That's a Take 20 on Initiative (with some quirks).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 13, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
nice
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 14, 2013, 02:09:00 AM
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Skevvix on August 14, 2013, 02:42:59 AM
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

Just rolling a 1 would be enough most times for me to use it.  Granted it is far more useful in a suprise round, but that is actually before init isn't it?  That's how my group has always played it at least.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on August 14, 2013, 03:05:43 AM
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

It essentially means that whenever you roll poorly on initiative and go last, you can gain a free move action (other than to move), a free swift action, and a +4 or +6 bonus to AC for 1 round. Ditto if you ever find yourself delaying or readying an action that puts you at the end of the initiative order. Don't think of it as giving up a standard action. Think of it as gaining a full extra turn minus a standard action.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 14, 2013, 03:12:21 AM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Rebel7284 on August 14, 2013, 07:42:42 AM
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

Swift and move action abilities?  I had a Telflamar Shadowlord that could abuse this heavily with linked power.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 14, 2013, 08:15:12 AM
Screaming Flask Fun

So, it's a one use item, therefore it's ammunition. So to make 50 masterwork screaming flasks is 2,300 gp. Now we add +1 EB, which is useless, but requires by the rules. Then we add flying (+1 bonus), so they are now move 30' animated objects that follow your commands like a skeleton would. Just to be able to carry this around we add hideaway (2,000 gp) which makes the ammunition 2 size classes smaller then me.

Total cost: 12,300 gp

Now you have 50 flying Screaming flasks you can deploy to full size as a swift action. Or keep them shrunk, because nothing about hideaway states that it prevents the weapon from operating in it's shrunken state. Energy damage is not size dependant.

The 15' cone of 1d8 sonic damage (No save on the damage, but fort DC 15 save to negate being deaf.) is going to ruin someone's day, unless you have 8 points of sonic energy resistance. Because without resistance, you could be sucking 50d8 sonic.

Personally, I'd state that the flasks, being animated objects, cannot occupy more then 1 to a square. They need the flying room or they'll crash into one another. Unfortunately with the hideaway, you could justify having all fifty in the same square, but I'd disallow that on principle. It's more a game balance thing then a rules thing.

If a flask catches another flask in the cone, I would rule it destroys the other flask, so you have to be careful about over lapping field's of fire. That would stop it from getting out of hand, but you could still drop them behind you as you flee an enemy. Paint little smiles on the flasks and the words, "Have a nice day."

There are other things you can use. floating flasks of aboleth mucus comes to mind, but they have to make to hit rolls, and animated objects are not well known for high BABs, you know? You'd be better sticking with area effect and splash damage flasks.

I'm seeing these things used in mass combat, like something out of the Great War of Eberron's setting. A solder opens up a crate of Buzz Flasks and orders them to spread out and attack the enemy. They advance in a line, popping off when someone approaches within 15 feet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on August 14, 2013, 08:54:13 AM
Alchemical items don't work like that.  Screaming Flask is an alchemical item.  You cannot enchant alchemical items with properties.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 14, 2013, 11:51:34 AM
Alchemical items don't work like that.  Screaming Flask is an alchemical item.  You cannot enchant alchemical items with properties.

I thought this was a RAW discussion.

I can load any flask into a Gnome Calculus. It therefore is ammunition. If it is ammunition, I can enchant it like ammunition. Ergo, I can make +1 Flying Screaming Flasks.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 14, 2013, 01:48:15 PM
RAW is an excuse, not a valid point.

For instance, by your logic I can say Setting Sun lets me throw people, therefor creatures are ammunition and can be Enhanced as such.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 14, 2013, 02:26:12 PM
The description of the Gnome Calculus specifically calls out that alchemical flasks are ammunition.  Setting Sun throws do not.  Also, good luck finding a masterwork creature to Enhance.  Yes, I know that has been brought up in various threads before.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on August 14, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
The description of the Gnome Calculus specifically calls out that alchemical flasks are ammunition.  Setting Sun throws do not.  Also, good luck finding a masterwork creature to Enhance.  Yes, I know that has been brought up in various threads before.
Alchemical Flasks, yes.  Oddly, despite the name, I don't think a Screaming Flask actually counts (take a look at the picture in Complete Mage).

Even so, we have the issue of no printed masterwork alchemical items, so the same issue presents itself with them as Monks for enhancing them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 14, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
Gnome Calculus says "Common ammunition includes acid, alchemist's fire, and other alchemical substances."  Screaming Flasks are still alchemical substances, even if they don't come in what is traditionally thought of as a 'flask'. 

Whether or not we have printed examples of masterwork alchemical items is immaterial.  If they're ammunition, then we can make masterwork versions of them.  The issue with masterwork Monks is that we don't know how to craft a non-masterwork one. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 14, 2013, 05:00:38 PM
after reading the description, i have to agree that alchemical items are indeed ammo.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 14, 2013, 06:21:35 PM
hmm ... I was concentrating on the Take 20 part.

If you have the best Init check, you already don't need it.
If you have the worst Init check, you probably don't need it.
If you were surprised + middling Init check,
you don't wanna give up so many actions.

(I'm quite hazy on surprise/1st round monster's RLT stuff)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 14, 2013, 06:59:58 PM
The description of the Gnome Calculus is a specific weapon at a specific rules level and it uses alchemical items as ammunition. But there are no rules, anywhere, that suggest or entrail establish alchemical items are ammunition at a general level or that they are technically even considered a weapon. After all, while they have range increments and can be thrown you never suffer none-proficiency penalties and they have their own Masterwork-like rules (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/augmented-alchemy--144/).

So the best point I've got is a +1 Flaming Gnome Calculus can toss a +1 Flaming Tanglefoot Bag, and it's the only way to combine Weapon Enhancements on Alchemical Flasks without venturing down TO-level Improvised Weapon rules. And I have no room to ever argue otherwise, through I may shove my head in a small orifice later and debate this anyway.
fify.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 14, 2013, 07:36:28 PM
The flesh of the icy tomb feat (Dungeon 109, p50) converts all cold damage to nonlethal damage.  It has two prerequisite feats, tomb-tainted soul and endurance.  A fire bat (Monster manual II, p102) has regeneration overcome only by cold damage and six hit dice.  So, customize the feats on one, and you've got a CR 3 creature that can only take nonlethal damage. 

The usual method of patching regeneration, gaining immunity to whatever bypasses it does leave a slight vulnerability in the form of searing spell, piercing cold, or whatever else can bypass immunity.  Flesh of the icy tomb isn't affected by things like that.  Elementals are immune to poison, so trollbane doesn't work against them either. 

The existence of an elemental with regeneration is pretty handy to druids, since elemental wild shape gives extraordinary abilities.  The druid could even take the flesh of the icy tomb feat, if he didn't think the energy immunity spell was good enough.  Edit: Nevermind
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 14, 2013, 07:50:04 PM
I can load any flask into a Gnome Calculus. It therefore is ammunition. If it is ammunition, I can enchant it like ammunition. Ergo, I can make +1 Flying Screaming Flasks.

why not a Raptor's alchemist fire (the relic) that automatically comes back loaded without being expended
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on August 14, 2013, 09:08:12 PM
Just a quick point on the gnome calculus. It fires "flasks filled with liquid". It says it right there. What are potions?

Finally, a use for potions of inflict x.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on August 14, 2013, 09:32:15 PM
Just a quick point on the gnome calculus. It fires "flasks filled with liquid". It says it right there. What are potions?

Finally, a use for potions of inflict x.

I think Potions are stored in Bottles, not flasks. Unless it specifically says it's a flask, it can't be used as ammunition with a Calculus, at least as far as i know.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on August 14, 2013, 09:52:08 PM
Potions come in vials, which only hold 1 ounce of fluid, while alchemical flasks are much larger, and hold 1 pint.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 15, 2013, 05:33:34 PM
The flesh of the icy tomb feat (Dungeon 109, p50) converts all cold damage to nonlethal damage.  It has two prerequisite feats, tomb-tainted soul and endurance.  A fire bat (Monster manual II, p102) has regeneration overcome only by cold damage and six hit dice.  So, customize the feats on one, and you've got a CR 3 creature that can only take nonlethal damage. 

 ;) ... aww now I know what to give the Fighter so he can work
out his aggression problems and feel better during downtime.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 15, 2013, 06:25:03 PM
from working on my spell lists...

Quote
   Scorn [Divine Masters (pg 239), Player’s Guide to the Sovereign Lands (pg238)]
Illusion (Glamer)
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft / level)
Target: One person
Duration: 1 hour / level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
   With a quiet whisper of contempt and a wink at the subject, you pinch the hair between your fingers, then release it. As the hair falls to the floor, you gain a certain sense of satisfaction that the subject’s failures will come back to haunt him.
   You cause a creature to appear deserving of scorn and derision. The target temporarily loses 1d4+1 points of Charisma each time it fails any saving throw.
   Material Component: Hair from a jackal or skunk.

note that it says ANY save ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on August 15, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
Throw Cure spells at him!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 15, 2013, 08:34:24 PM
Too bad it is Will negates. Otherwise this would be very, very nasty. What level is it? And is it on the bard list? (Doomspeak + this, then throw out a bunch of bardic musics with DCs based on perform checks!  ;) )
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 15, 2013, 08:47:08 PM
Why on earth is it an Illusion (Glamer)?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 15, 2013, 10:17:54 PM
What level is it?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 16, 2013, 02:44:55 AM
Oh sry, sor/wiz 2 (maybe other lists too)

found it finishing my Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, which I'll be done w tmw and prob post Sat night

edit: lists = Scorn 1, Sor/Wiz 2
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 16, 2013, 07:09:31 AM
Why on earth is it an Illusion (Glamer)?

from working on my spell lists...
Quote
   You cause a creature to appear deserving of scorn and derision. The target temporarily loses 1d4+1 points of Charisma each time it fails any saving throw.

Quote
Glamer
A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

I'm guessing the Glamer makes the target less appealing or meeker somehow. Reducing his "force of personality/attractiveness". Making them uglier / sound less authoritative / sound or look untrustworthy / Making them smell funny; as it drains Charisma.

Bit weird but that's the only way I see it making sense as a Glamer.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on August 16, 2013, 07:20:51 AM
So I cast an illusion that makes you look uglier to others, and this somehow lowers your charisma whenever you fail a saving throw?  So ... nonsensical ... head ... hurts ...

This is why I almost never allow 3rd party material in my games.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 16, 2013, 10:13:33 AM
2nd party, it's officially licensed
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on August 16, 2013, 10:26:53 AM
The core setting book is 2nd party, but I didn't see the WotC seal on that particular book ...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 16, 2013, 12:21:36 PM
i just look and the Villian Design Handbook does have the seal

plus...
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2100.msg22536#msg22536
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 16, 2013, 12:32:53 PM
I've noticed the Heir of Siberys prestige class grants a "Siberys Mark", If this is a "Mark of Making" then you get True Creation 1/day. Now you'd get this at level 14. True Creation is normally available to casters at level 15.

Also it's a spell like ability.
Quote
A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

The CL is 15th and seems to be non scaling, but it's still CL 15 at level 14.

So 15 Cubic foot of essentially real matter, 1/day. If you craft check... then you can make complicated stuff (mark of making, you should have craft something or other. I think Sculpt would be worth it.)

Create a 15ft cube of gold/platinum/gemstone. There goes wealth per level.

Be stylish and create a gargantuan statue of yourself out of seamless emerald.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 16, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
what's the progression on a Mountain Landwyrm's bite? :-p
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sleepyphoenixx on August 16, 2013, 02:06:15 PM
The errata to ECS adds the XP cost to Heir of Syberis' True Creation.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 16, 2013, 04:07:04 PM
The errata to ECS adds the XP cost to Heir of Syberis' True Creation.

Ah, damn. Well it's good they caught that at least. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 16, 2013, 04:44:43 PM
Master Dorje feat from 3.0e Psi handbook.
[Metapsionic] No prereqs, assuming you have Dorjes whatever way.
You can manifest a dorje's power with power points.
Benefit
You can manifest a power stored in a dorje without expending a charge. Instead, you pay for the imbedded power from your own power point reserve by spending a number of power points equal to its standard cost +2. When all the charges of a dorje are exhausted, the dorje becomes inert; thus, this feat no longer affects that individual dorje.


This feat is not updated by the Dorje Mastery feat in CPsi.
Shoot the gap between the Powerstone Recharge
and the nerf of it in CPsi (itself useful in other ways). 
Dorjes become like a spellbook or the Erudite's repertoire.
Slightly expensive, unless ppoint recharge is happening.

Opens the crafting a limited charge Wand/Dorje can of worms.
Perhaps make a normal 1*1*X dorje ; discharge most of it ;
"repair" it winkwink with the various powers.

Result:  Psions are now expensive Wizards, Archivists, Erudites or Artificers.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Quillwraith on August 17, 2013, 10:22:01 AM
The errata to ECS adds the XP cost to Heir of Syberis' True Creation.

Ah, damn. Well it's good they caught that at least. :P
It's still a level early, right?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on August 17, 2013, 09:41:14 PM
The errata to ECS adds the XP cost to Heir of Syberis' True Creation.

Ah, damn. Well it's good they caught that at least. :P
It's still a level early, right?
And one (3.0) feat away from being Supernatural and free again.  Supernatural Transformation.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 18, 2013, 03:25:15 AM
Wanna know something that makes a Dinosaur-riding Halfling Crusader even more awesome? Giving him a Greater Dragonmark.

Why does this make him more awesome? Dragonmarked Visionary (Healing) gives you Revivify 1/day with no material component required.

No errata to screw with you, just 2 feats and a few levels in Dragonmarked Heir and you are Hobbit Jesus.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 19, 2013, 01:28:33 PM
If your DM allows variant/ACF chaining, you can get relentless smash (Dragon 349, p92) on a rage cleric (Dragon 333, p86).  Relentless smash allows you to stun an opponent for 1d3 rounds with no save, but you have to either score a critical hit or hit him three times in a single round.  It replaces mighty rage at 20th level.  Rage cleric gets rage and its associated abilities, including mighty rage at 20th level.  The main things you give up are turn undead and domains, also the ability to be lawful and proficiency with medium and heavy armor. 

Okay, so you give up some nice stuff, don't get the payoff until 20th level, and are stuck single-classed until then, but … I think I just turned myself off of the concept.  I'm posting this anyway. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 19, 2013, 02:39:10 PM
Frenzied Berserker Cleric :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 19, 2013, 06:08:41 PM
Since we're talking about Barbarian Clerics now, the feat Frantic Rage converts the Strength bonus from your Rage class feature into a Dex bonus. Unfortunately Ferocity doesn't count as Rage by RAW, but if it did the Frantic Rage feat would enable a Dex-based Barbarian. It should work for Whirling Frenzy, which makes the Barbarian Archer build a bit stronger.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 19, 2013, 06:13:23 PM
Frantic Rage (http://dndtools.eu/feats/faiths-of-eberron--8/frantic-rage--1191/) link for anyone curious.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on August 19, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
Oh, has Prophecy's Shaper (MoE) been mentioned yet? 2 feats for a free Empower Spell to every spell you cast (provided it's 1 level below your highest). And you don't have to have Empower Spell as a feat to use it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 20, 2013, 07:07:31 AM
Oh, has Prophecy's Shaper (MoE) been mentioned yet? 2 feats for a free Empower Spell to every spell you cast (provided it's 1 level below your highest). And you don't have to have Empower Spell as a feat to use it.

I can actually see a healing build in there combined with Prophecy's Shepherd. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/magic-of-eberron--9/prophecys-shepherd--2257/)

So maybe an Armband of Maximized Healing and a Circlet of Solace. Prophecy's Shaper and Shepherd, maybe Augment healing... so 4 feats. Not a terrible investment.

Every round you can throw out an empowered spell... then as an option a swift action empowered cure spell... optionally maximised and/or boosting saves by 5, 3/day. Not the worst support character and doesn't waste actions in combat healing...and free buffs.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 20, 2013, 03:34:55 PM
I just found a feat that becomes hilariously broken if you have access to Circle Magic.

Namely, Umbral Shroud (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/umbral-shroud--3003/).

Why? Because it is one of the few ways to make someone's attacks have a 100% miss chance.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on August 20, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Standard action to have someone make a Will save to give their attacks a miss chance for 1 round? No thanks, even with a 100000% miss chance. Besides, can't they just close their eyes (thus no longer relying on sight) to replace Umbral Shroud's 100% miss chance with total concealment's 50%?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 20, 2013, 05:06:23 PM
Reserve feats and Circle Magic are quite the fun combination.

Acidic Splatter: 20d6 acid damage, ranged touch attack, 100 ft range.
Fiery Burst: 20d6 fire damage, Ref DC 30+casting stat mod, 30 foot range.

Etc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 20, 2013, 05:56:30 PM
Dragon 302 has a prestige class called tainted with two variants.  Or it has a prestige class called tainted warrior and another called tainted spellcaster.  It depends on how you look at it. 

The class is horrible to read, because every important feature has 21 different effects depending on which fiend you selected when you took the class. 

If you select kyton, you get exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain) at 2nd level and an ability called chain control at 4th level.  Control chain is a supernatural ability that gives you +10 feet of reach with a spiked chain. 

The requirements are base attack bonus +2 and base will save +1.  Two levels in duskblade, hexblade, or knight would be enough to qualify.  Three levels in any number of other classes would also work. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 20, 2013, 06:03:53 PM
Oh that's rather interesting.

Except for the yet another Taint name.
OA Taint.  UA Taint.  HoH Taint.  My taint.



Is Frenzy less useful/supported than Rage?
I ask 'cause I was looking at the OA Sohei,
a terrible class, like Tier 6 Divine MInd -ish.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 20, 2013, 07:14:23 PM
But... But.. Oh no, I have nothing :P

I really like the Tainted classes. The caster one would be playable if it was 9/10 or 10/10 casting.

marilith gets you an extra arm
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 20, 2013, 08:30:01 PM
marilith gets you an extra arm

Why am I seeing this?
I've Got These Evil Hand Issues. (http://youtu.be/QPiOYs8xv-I?t=50s)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on August 20, 2013, 08:52:15 PM
Reserve feats and Circle Magic are quite the fun combination.

Acidic Splatter: 20d6 acid damage, ranged touch attack, 100 ft range.
Fiery Burst: 20d6 fire damage, Ref DC 30+casting stat mod, 30 foot range.

Etc.

I was quite curious about this actually.

Quote from: DMG
Add Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or Heighten
Spell metamagic feats to spells currently prepared
by the circle leader. Each circle bonus level counts
as one additional spell level required by the appli-
cation of a metamagic feat to a spell. The circle
leader may add one of the three listed feats to a
spell even if he does not know the feat or if the
addition of the feat would raise the spell level past
the circle leader’s normal maximum spell level
(maximum spell level 20th).
These effects last for 24 hours or until expended.

If you were preparing the spell with a specific amount of metamagic applied, I'd assume the spell would be "locked" with the bonus until you use it (as per the wizard's ability to keep spells from previous days). However, the wording of circle magic seems to be applying the metamagic as a temporary (24 hour) effect to an already prepared spell. This means you would need to create a circle EVERY 24 hours to keep your reserve feat boosted. It's a cool downtime buff that lasts 24 hours if you happen to have a bunch of guys with circle magic around, but in a normal game of "adventurers going everywhere" there isn't much opportunity for it (especially when leadership is banned or houseruled to being an offscreen support network). However, if the circle magic sticks until used, it means you could just fill a new slot each day with a level 20 spell to support a different reserve feat, then have half your spell slots as level 20 at-wills.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 20, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Reserve feats and Circle Magic are quite the fun combination.

Acidic Splatter: 20d6 acid damage, ranged touch attack, 100 ft range.
Fiery Burst: 20d6 fire damage, Ref DC 30+casting stat mod, 30 foot range.

Etc.

I was quite curious about this actually.

Quote from: DMG
Add Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or Heighten
Spell metamagic feats to spells currently prepared
by the circle leader. Each circle bonus level counts
as one additional spell level required by the appli-
cation of a metamagic feat to a spell. The circle
leader may add one of the three listed feats to a
spell even if he does not know the feat or if the
addition of the feat would raise the spell level past
the circle leader’s normal maximum spell level
(maximum spell level 20th).
These effects last for 24 hours or until expended.

If you were preparing the spell with a specific amount of metamagic applied, I'd assume the spell would be "locked" with the bonus until you use it (as per the wizard's ability to keep spells from previous days). However, the wording of circle magic seems to be applying the metamagic as a temporary (24 hour) effect to an already prepared spell. This means you would need to create a circle EVERY 24 hours to keep your reserve feat boosted. It's a cool downtime buff that lasts 24 hours if you happen to have a bunch of guys with circle magic around, but in a normal game of "adventurers going everywhere" there isn't much opportunity for it (especially when leadership is banned or houseruled to being an offscreen support network). However, if the circle magic sticks until used, it means you could just fill a new slot each day with a level 20 spell to support a different reserve feat, then have half your spell slots as level 20 at-wills.
Yeah, the wording is vague.  I go with the interpretation of "Lasts for 24 hours [caster level boost] or until expended [spells w/ metamagic]," because that follows the normal rules for spell prep.

If you are a Hathran, well, you have to take Leadership to even get in the class (3.5), or you got a free cohort anyway (3.0).  Add in a follower or two who has the Ethran feat (I think minimum is you +3?) and then you can do this, if your cohort is also high enough level to lead a circle:

Cohort leads circle and you and the two followers each give the cohort your highest level slot.  She uses these to boost a spell with Heighten as high as she can.  Then you can immediately turn around and
lead a circle yourself, and the cohort gives you that now-heightened spell (plus whatever the followers can give you).  Lots of spell levels to play with for caster level boosts, etc.  It gets even better if the DM does allow the heightened spells to last more than 24 hours.

Someday I would love to see a group in my gestalt game that was composed entirely of Hathran.  Sure, they'd waste 4 hours every day in Circle Magic transfers amongst each other, but their caster levels would be insane.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 21, 2013, 12:56:31 AM
Reserve feats and Circle Magic are quite the fun combination.

Acidic Splatter: 20d6 acid damage, ranged touch attack, 100 ft range.
Fiery Burst: 20d6 fire damage, Ref DC 30+casting stat mod, 30 foot range.

Etc.
Holy crap... Now you're making me rethink that Hathran PrC for my character in your new game. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 21, 2013, 01:04:23 PM
A unicorn's shield (Dragon 340, p70) deals double damage on a charge.  Assuming you can add shield spikes to a specific shield, you can put the valorous weapon ability (Unapproachable East, p54) on them for another doubling of damage on a charge. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on August 21, 2013, 02:59:07 PM
Somewhere, there is a creature that stays after being summoned via summon monster (fairly low level summon monster IIRC). It might be useful for some tricks with BoVD sacrifices (pretty sure it is Int 3 or higher) and other things that need bodies.
Only I can't remember what it's called or which book it's in. I'm pretty sure it could fly.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

EDIT: Found it. Eyewing, Bestiary of Krynn
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 21, 2013, 04:44:52 PM
A unicorn's shield (Dragon 340, p70) deals double damage on a charge.  Assuming you can add shield spikes to a specific shield, you can put the valorous weapon ability (Unapproachable East, p54) on them for another doubling of damage on a charge.

Endarire ... ringy dingy!


**


In the OA book Hobgoblins are LA+0.
Makes them somewhat juicy.
At the end of the monster section, the next
section has the LAs for some of the monsters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 21, 2013, 05:55:27 PM
@jojo check out Halaster's Fetch (http://dndtools.eu/spells/city-of-splendors-waterdeep--16/halasters-fetch-i--334/)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ananse on August 21, 2013, 09:24:42 PM
In the OA book Hobgoblins are LA+0.
Makes them somewhat juicy.
At the end of the monster section, the next
section has the LAs for some of the monsters.

What OA book?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 21, 2013, 09:37:10 PM
Speaking of OA, the rules for other races on page 16 of OA state that both elves and gnomes can treat Wu Jen as a favored class instead of illusionist (3.0 gnome favored class instead of 3.5 bard) or wizard (still the elf favored class).  Dwarves can treat either fighter or samurai as their favored class.

I see no mention of hobgoblins in the actual Oriental Adventures book nor its Dragon 318 3.5 update.  It's also not in Rokugan Campaign Setting.  ADMG, are you sure you're not thinking of the rules in J&K Tome stuff?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 21, 2013, 10:21:30 PM
No, he's right. Page 203 of Oriental adventures lists hobgoblins as +0 LA.  I would argue, though, that the 3.5 Monster Manual supersedes that. 

Also, thanks awaken_D_M_golem, for directing me to that page.  I've been listing the source for bakemono's level adjustment as Dragon 318.  It's good to see it's in the source book too. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 21, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
Chain Spell:  Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally, then arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

Animate with the Spirit
Level: Sanctified 4
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Target: One corpse with HD equal to or less than your caster level

Kill baddies in the first room or two of a dungeon, then reanimate their corpses with Bralani Eladrin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm)...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on August 21, 2013, 10:48:30 PM
Chain Spell:  Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally, then arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

Animate with the Spirit
Level: Sanctified 4
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Target: One corpse with HD equal to or less than your caster level

Kill baddies in the first room or two of a dungeon, then reanimate their corpses with Bralani Eladrin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm)...

Sadly, the spirit chosen is DM decided.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 21, 2013, 10:51:32 PM
True, but still fun.  If you killed a bunch of trolls, you now have regenerating trolls fighting on your side, regardless what the animating spirit actually is.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on August 21, 2013, 11:59:24 PM
Yes, but even so, the spirit called is one with the same alignment as you... And the spell says they'll attack regardless, so eh... How many DM's will actually randomly choose a different 6HD or less outsider from the same alignment as you just to spite your choice? This means they'll have to open up the MM or look it up in a splatbook somewhere, when they probably don't have anything in mind really, and it's just that much easier to just go to the page number and manual you point them to, rather than go and look elsewhere... Yeah, they'll probably grant you what you asked for.

OK, Fun Find:

The Ritual of Crucimigration, the one that turns you into a necropolitan, makes you lose a level, and then lose 1000xp.

Now here's the thing. The text says...

"If the loss of this much XP forces the necropolitan to lose another level, then it loses another level. No spell, not even restoration, can restore this lost XP. Petitioners may not spend experience points they don't have - if the level loss and the 1,000 XP cost drains a creature to 0 XP or less, it is destroyed, turned to dust, and can never be raised or revived again using any means. If the ritual is interrupted before it is completed, the petitioner is merely dead."

Read the underlined section.

ANY. MEANS.

Not Ressurrection. Not True Ressurrection. Not Wish. Not Reality Revision. Not even a deitie's SDA.

Nothing.

The guy is PERMADEAD, as in, you are now forbidden to EVER raise again from the living because i say so dead. And no one gets a say in it.

Even Deitie's SDA that are instakill stuff have a clause in them that says the creature can only be raised by another SDA that raises the dead from a higher DvR deity. Not this. This has nothing like that.

So, drain a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid to 2nd level, immobilize them, do the ritual to them, and they're now dead - FOREVER.

Isn't this or isn't this a fun find?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Quillwraith on August 22, 2013, 10:22:10 AM
^What counts as 'raise or revive', though?



Cry of Ysgard (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/cry-of-ysgard--24/) summons 2d4 bariaurs - for a whole year. You cant have more than one casting at a time, though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 22, 2013, 04:45:22 PM
Speaking of OA, the rules for other races on page 16 of OA state that both elves and gnomes can treat Wu Jen as a favored class instead of illusionist (3.0 gnome favored class instead of 3.5 bard) or wizard (still the elf favored class).  Dwarves can treat either fighter or samurai as their favored class.

Oh nice ... a few of the XPH races have
the double choice of favored class.
And it's weird (probably because it's psionics).


No, he's right. Page 203 of Oriental adventures lists hobgoblins as +0 LA.  I would argue, though, that the 3.5 Monster Manual supersedes that. 

Also, thanks awaken_D_M_golem, for directing me to that page.  I've been listing the source for bakemono's level adjustment as Dragon 318.  It's good to see it's in the source book too.

Yeah that's the page/table ... hmm un-updated OA only then?
Gets around having to do LA buy-off maths.
Or this SS discussion ---> http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6306.5
Or that weird PGtF penalty no one uses.

 ;)
C'mon tell me you don't want you some Hobgoblin every now and then?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 22, 2013, 04:51:19 PM
i like the idea of chained potions
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 22, 2013, 09:43:49 PM
Chain Spell:  Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally, then arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

Animate with the Spirit
Level: Sanctified 4
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Target: One corpse with HD equal to or less than your caster level

Kill baddies in the first room or two of a dungeon, then reanimate their corpses with Bralani Eladrin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm)...
:psyduck I will have to add this to my Chain Spell mini-guide. :evillaugh
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 23, 2013, 04:16:12 PM
... OK, Fun Find:  The Ritual of Crucimigration, the one that turns you into a necropolitan, makes you lose a level, and then lose 1000xp.

Now here's the thing. The text says...

"If the loss of this much XP forces the necropolitan to lose another level, then it loses another level. No spell, not even restoration, can restore this lost XP. Petitioners may not spend experience points they don't have - if the level loss and the 1,000 XP cost drains a creature to 0 XP or less, it is destroyed, turned to dust, and can never be raised or revived again using any means. If the ritual is interrupted before it is completed, the petitioner is merely dead."

Read the underlined section.

ANY. MEANS.

Not Ressurrection. Not True Ressurrection. Not Wish. Not Reality Revision. Not even a deitie's SDA.

Nothing.

The guy is PERMADEAD, as in, you are now forbidden to EVER raise again from the living because i say so dead. And no one gets a say in it.

Even Deitie's SDA that are instakill stuff have a clause in them that says the creature can only be raised by another SDA that raises the dead from a higher DvR deity. Not this. This has nothing like that.

So, drain a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid to 2nd level, immobilize them, do the ritual to them, and they're now dead - FOREVER.

Isn't this or isn't this a fun find?

You.
You!
You killed something forever in d&d.
You.
You?
You killer !!

I guess we're not playing MLP anymore.
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 26, 2013, 02:46:26 AM
*snip*

(click to show/hide)
You could bind the ghost to one of your items... Gaining more and more and more ghost "buddies" that travel w you
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on August 26, 2013, 09:43:10 AM
target gets no save, item or area.

so a ghost touch (?) intelligent item as the target gets a buddy.

as a side not, as long as you go ghosts around, need to makesome ghost touch brooms and rags... so they can keep them selves occupied. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 26, 2013, 11:42:02 AM
:D

throw the items in your demiplane that has a 1 day: 100 years ratio, then your ghost 'evolve' every day for Material Plane time
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 27, 2013, 04:43:59 PM
OA Shintao Monk ... has waffly usage of character level
and level and monk level and Shintao Monk level.
If I'm reading it correctly -- which may be impossible --
there's 2 juicy antiCaster abilities that use for the save:
10 + monk's level + mod , instead of 10 + spell level + mod !!
Doubled save prog.  The 1 is ~silence, the other has
no time limit on shutting down a caster (ridiculous).

Does the Dr#318 update do this too / or change it ??
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 27, 2013, 06:23:40 PM
As far as I know it's still 10+lvl+Cha, it's never been Errata'ed. Kukan-Do prevents you from using any Spells, SLAs, or Su abilities as well through. And the ability has no listed duration and technically lasts forever. Through reasonably the Monk can end it as per voluntarily ending a Spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on August 27, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
Hmm... actually, spells have to be marked as dismissible in order to be dismissed as a standard action. So Kukan-Do never stops w/o, admittedly sensible, house rulings.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 28, 2013, 01:45:14 AM
In Song and Silence, there are several mundane masterwork music instruments.that produce supernatural effects

- the alphorn is uber powerful, extends the range of your bardic music to 1d10 miles  :o
- the Shawn grants +4 circumstance to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, and Gather Info on listeners for 1d6hrs, but also increases the attitude of the listeners by 1 (Su mind-affecting)  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on August 28, 2013, 10:46:07 AM
I've been looking through some books trying to find glasses that give you perfect memory which I only vaguely recall. Any help there would be appreciated by the way.

But anyway, while going through Ghostwalk, I found the Living Mask, an item that for only 400 GP lets any undead that can wear it appear to be a living person wearing fine clothing and a mask. Even register as living for detect undead and such. It's sadly only one use, but it does function until you actually have to take it off, which could very well be never.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on August 28, 2013, 12:13:21 PM
I've been looking through some books trying to find glasses that give you perfect memory which I only vaguely recall. Any help there would be appreciated by the way.

The only perfect memory item I know of is a kiira n'vaelhar (Player's Guide to Faerun, p123), but it doesn't take the form of glasses. 

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm) might help. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Mithril Leaf on August 28, 2013, 12:31:30 PM
I've been looking through some books trying to find glasses that give you perfect memory which I only vaguely recall. Any help there would be appreciated by the way.

The only perfect memory item I know of is a kiira n'vaelhar (Player's Guide to Faerun, p123), but it doesn't take the form of glasses. 

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm) might help.

Sorry, should have clarified that I'm well aware of Autohypnosis, Kiira N'Vaelhar, the Memory Crystal, the spell Amanuensis, and the psionic power Eidetic Lock. Thanks for trying though.

EDIT: Also, nevermind since I found it. It was some homebrew by the Demented One. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5866639 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5866639)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 28, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
But anyway, while going through Ghostwalk, I found the Living Mask, an item that for only 400 GP lets any undead that can wear it appear to be a living person wearing fine clothing and a mask. Even register as living for detect undead and such. It's sadly only one use, but it does function until you actually have to take it off, which could very well be never.
I will be making use of this...
*yoink*
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 28, 2013, 12:49:00 PM
Anyone else think of using the Living Mask on an animated Hydra or was that just me?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on August 28, 2013, 12:55:29 PM
Anyone else think of using the Living Mask on an animated Hydra or was that just me?

you stopped at hydra?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 28, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
Anyone else think of using the Living Mask on an animated Hydra or was that just me?
Boy that would sure be a hit at parties!  :lol
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 28, 2013, 05:05:22 PM
Memory?
There was a thread maybe last year.
Included this stuff and ~Jordan Vizier (?).

very hazy
Found it ---> http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7688.0

Also there's an OA PrC that has an ability called "Memory".
But otherwise it didn't make an impression on me (not saying that's bad).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 28, 2013, 05:29:02 PM
Stone Metamorphosis

Build your home out of stone.

Use Stone Metamorphosis to change your walls into Photostatic Rock (Underdark p106). Photo Rock has no value, so you can make as much of it as you want. Considering the sheer volume you can make with Stone Meta, and that every cubic foot lets you see back in time one hour accumulative, you could make your entire wizard tower out of this stuff and Nothing would ever escape your notice. And remember, Photostatic rock is like stone tell on steroids. The only problem is locking it so that nobody else can use it.

Or, to be disturbing, find a fest hall with stone walls...

I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

(edit) Credit to an inventive player.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 28, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
Naw. To be disturbing, find a brothel with stone walls.

(I'll get my coat.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 28, 2013, 06:27:37 PM
Naw. To be disturbing, find a brothel with stone walls.

(I'll get my coat.)
The coat is unneeded. It describes the events, not slings wet stuff.

That's what Animate Object is for.  :P

Edit - A bit less humorously. Awakened Animated Colossal Photostatic Rock, the perfect Wizard pet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on August 28, 2013, 06:32:39 PM
Naw. To be disturbing, find a brothel with stone walls.

(I'll get my coat.)

"Festhall" is code for "Brothel" because TSR wouldn't let Ed Greenwood use that word in the books. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 28, 2013, 06:52:30 PM
(and the post before it)
As far as I know it's still 10+lvl+Cha, it's never been Errata'ed. Kukan-Do prevents you from using any Spells, SLAs, or Su abilities as well through. And the ability has no listed duration and technically lasts forever. Through reasonably the Monk can end it as per voluntarily ending a Spell.

Ready action: Kukan-Do
Tier 1 gates you at bbeg -- ready triggers
bbeg is toast like forever
Heck ...  ;) ... you can nerf Pazuzu before Pun-pun is born.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Captnq on August 28, 2013, 09:04:46 PM
Edit - A bit less humorously. Awakened Animated Colossal Photostatic Rock, the perfect Wizard pet.

One of the players wants a to make a weapon out of photostatic rock so they can "review" the combat after it's over and check out where they made mistakes.
"See, that's where the rogue picked your pocket."

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on August 28, 2013, 09:05:53 PM
Pfffffff heheheh.

I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 28, 2013, 10:16:22 PM
Want to annoy opponents with AC that gets bigger every time they miss you?  Pearl of Black Doubt (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/pearl-black-doubt--3633/) is the usual way to do that around here, but you can combine it with Defensive Metered Foot (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Defensive_Metered_Foot).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 29, 2013, 01:19:56 AM
Er, this is a more general one, but... After reading the extra attacks in a full-attack action thread, it got me thinking. Everything says "oh, this doesn't stack with haste or a speed weapon!" but wouldn't they all stack with each other (as long as you didn't have a speed weapon)? I'm not at my books so I can't look up quotes, though...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on August 30, 2013, 07:18:44 AM
Er, this is a more general one, but... After reading the extra attacks in a full-attack action thread, it got me thinking. Everything says "oh, this doesn't stack with haste or a speed weapon!" but wouldn't they all stack with each other (as long as you didn't have a speed weapon)? I'm not at my books so I can't look up quotes, though...

They say they don't stack with haste or speed weapons because they're the same effect... Kind of like Bears Endurance not stacking with an Amulet of Health, cause the amulet is made with that spell and you can't have that spell effect you twice.

Speed weapons are made with haste
Quote from: SRD
Speed
When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
and that's why it doesn't stack with haste...because you can't cast haste on someone twice. If the item doesn't stack with speed or haste...chances are it's made with haste...and as such won't stack with anything else that won't stack with speed or haste because it's also made with haste.

I don't think that was a particularly eloquent or sensical answer ...sorry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 30, 2013, 09:57:30 AM
Er, this is a more general one, but... After reading the extra attacks in a full-attack action thread, it got me thinking. Everything says "oh, this doesn't stack with haste or a speed weapon!" but wouldn't they all stack with each other (as long as you didn't have a speed weapon)? I'm not at my books so I can't look up quotes, though...

They say they don't stack with haste or speed weapons because they're the same effect... Kind of like Bears Endurance not stacking with an Amulet of Health, cause the amulet is made with that spell and you can't have that spell effect you twice.

Speed weapons are made with haste
Quote from: SRD
Speed
When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
and that's why it doesn't stack with haste...because you can't cast haste on someone twice. If the item doesn't stack with speed or haste...chances are it's made with haste...and as such won't stack with anything else that won't stack with speed or haste because it's also made with haste.

I don't think that was a particularly eloquent or sensical answer ...sorry.
No, no, it made sense. They don't stack with haste, and the items would have required haste as part of their creation. Thank you!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 30, 2013, 09:59:10 AM
Er, this is a more general one, but... After reading the extra attacks in a full-attack action thread, it got me thinking. Everything says "oh, this doesn't stack with haste or a speed weapon!" but wouldn't they all stack with each other (as long as you didn't have a speed weapon)? I'm not at my books so I can't look up quotes, though...

They say they don't stack with haste or speed weapons because they're the same effect... Kind of like Bears Endurance not stacking with an Amulet of Health, cause the amulet is made with that spell and you can't have that spell effect you twice.

Speed weapons are made with haste
Quote from: SRD
Speed
When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
and that's why it doesn't stack with haste...because you can't cast haste on someone twice. If the item doesn't stack with speed or haste...chances are it's made with haste...and as such won't stack with anything else that won't stack with speed or haste because it's also made with haste.

I don't think that was a particularly eloquent or sensical answer ...sorry.
That's not right at all... They don't stack because they explicitly say they don't, or because they have the same bonus type. Otherwise, they would stack. How a magic item was made (spell prereqs) has nothing at all to do with it.

One of the things that explicitly doesn't stack with Haste is the extra attack from the frenzy of a frenzied berserker.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on August 30, 2013, 10:58:02 AM
Er, this is a more general one, but... After reading the extra attacks in a full-attack action thread, it got me thinking. Everything says "oh, this doesn't stack with haste or a speed weapon!" but wouldn't they all stack with each other (as long as you didn't have a speed weapon)? I'm not at my books so I can't look up quotes, though...

They say they don't stack with haste or speed weapons because they're the same effect... Kind of like Bears Endurance not stacking with an Amulet of Health, cause the amulet is made with that spell and you can't have that spell effect you twice.

Speed weapons are made with haste
Quote from: SRD
Speed
When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
and that's why it doesn't stack with haste...because you can't cast haste on someone twice. If the item doesn't stack with speed or haste...chances are it's made with haste...and as such won't stack with anything else that won't stack with speed or haste because it's also made with haste.

I don't think that was a particularly eloquent or sensical answer ...sorry.
That's not right at all... They don't stack because they explicitly say they don't, or because they have the same bonus type. Otherwise, they would stack. How a magic item was made (spell prereqs) has nothing at all to do with it.

One of the things that explicitly doesn't stack with Haste is the extra attack from the frenzy of a frenzied berserker.
I guess it comes down to whether or not it says something to the effect of "and similar effects" when describing how it doesn't stack. If it doesn't say "similar effects", than it works. If it does, then they wouldn't stack.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on August 30, 2013, 11:03:03 AM
Agreed
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 04, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
Savage Species has the "Chain Lash", a Spiked Chain that only differs in that it deals Bludgeoning damage.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Lunarambling on September 07, 2013, 05:15:18 AM
Was browsing through the MMV looking for Wild Shape forms to help a friend before we start our next game and ran across a few feats. Some I recognized but these I didn't. Hopefully someone will find these useful.

Battle Magic Tactics:
Through intense training and impeccable timing, you and your allies learn to augment each other's magical attacks when you focus your efforts on a single target.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 6 ranks, arcane caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a spell that requires the target to make a saving throw, that target gains a Battle Magic Tactics token after the spell resolves. A creature gains a token whether the save succeeds or fails, but a creature that avoids a spell through spell resistance does not gain a token. Each Battle Magic Tactics token imposes a cumulative -1 penalty on saving throws against the spells of spellcasters that have this feat. At the end of each round all Battle Magic Tactics tokens disappear.

This has to be some how abused.

Daunting Presence:
You are skilled at inducing fear in your opponents.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Base Attack Bonus +1.
Benefit: You can take a standard action to awe an opponent. The opponent must be within 30 feet, gave line of sight to you, and have an intelligence score. If the opponent fails a Will saving throw (DC 10+ 1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier), it is shaken for 10 minutes. This feat has no effect on a creature that is already shaken.
Special: A fighter can select Daunting Presence as one of his Fighter bonus feats.

These two are only useful if you are for some weird reason playing a Kuo-Toan, but still seem like they should be somehow useful, especially if you can somehow get them on something else. Maybe a Changeling with MoMF?

Kuo-Toan Monasticism:
The monitors learn to use the strange, sticky substance common to kuo-toas as part of their martial arts. If a monitor's first punch hits, it sticks its hand to the target, executes an acrobatic tumble,and unfailingly lands its second strike.
Prerequisites: Kuo-toa, Flurry of Blows.
Benefit: As a swift action, a kuo-toa can smear a strange, sticky substance on its hands. When using flurry of blows, the kuo-toa automatically hits with one of its extra attacks if its first attack hits. A kuo-toa that has this feat uses Hit Dice, rather than character level to determine its Stunning Fist save DC.

Mind-Shattering Strike:
Violent madness lurks just beneath the surface in all kuo-toas. The monitors learn to control this madness and channel it into their enemies.
Prerequisites: Kuo-toa, Kuo-toa Monasticism, Stunning Fist, flurry of blows.
Benefits: Before making an unarmed strike, a kuo-toa monitor can choose to use this feat, consuming one of the monitor's daily uses of the Stunning Fist feat. If the Kuo-toa monitor's next unarmed attack hits, the struck opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the monitor's HD + its Wis modifier). On a failed save, that foe attacks the closest non kuo-toa in his next turn. This feat also grants one additional daily use of the Stunning Fist Feat.

These seem like they could actually be made pretty useful. Again, not sure how? But could be seriously fun. At least maybe as an encounter. Nothing like turning the BDF on the party by bitch slapping him. As a fish person.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 07, 2013, 01:13:31 PM
Gnome Steam Bow (A&EG; 18,530gp) is a +1 shortbow with three powers that can be activated as a move action, affecting your next attack with the weapon with no maximum duration: Negate the attack penalty for a too-low Str score, Add your Int modifier to the attack roll, or double the attack's range increment.

Gnome's Toolkit (same source; 10,335gp) is a +2 light crossbow that holds up to six small items "such as keys or potion vials", and has a few self-replacing items built in (masterwork lockpicks, a magnifying glass and a mirror). Retrieving any of the items is a free action.

EDIT: Ringsword is a +3 longsword that grants the wielder an extra ring slot, for 22,315gp.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 07, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Apply the Gnome Steam Bow enhancements to a better bow, say, and we're cookin' with gasoline.

And by "we", I mean anything involving the Factotum.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 07, 2013, 02:33:17 PM
Ringholder's Shuriken for ~450gp

Shadow's Hand is the most overpriced weapon ever! 30k to make a permanently blinding strike 1/day w a +2 wounding shuriken... Oh wait, that destroys the shuriken since its ammo!  :twitch

Shield Blade 10k, a short sword that turns unto a large steel shield that grants an ARMOR bonus to AC, not shield bonus.

Spell Shield Falchion 38k, each round of total defense, you spell turn 7 levels.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Demelain on September 08, 2013, 12:20:48 AM
Source on the Falchion?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 08, 2013, 12:32:10 AM
those were all out of the Arms and Equipment
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kethrian on September 08, 2013, 12:39:28 AM
those were all out of the Arms and Equipment

The book's 3.0, when shields granted armour bonuses to AC that explicitly stacked with worn armour.  So, the Shield Blade would actually grant a shield bonus to AC when updated for 3.5
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 08, 2013, 12:46:36 AM
k

i didn't see that update in the 3.5 update Booklet
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 08, 2013, 12:28:06 PM
k

i didn't see that update in the 3.5 update Booklet
Because they didn't cover A&EG in the update booklet.  It's just one of those system mastery things that you have to know when allowing 3.0 material.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 08, 2013, 01:05:11 PM
A&E is one of those books you should just sit down and read through the equipment and enhancements. Like seriously, sit down and read it page to page. Lots of amazingly useful equipment for Players in there.

Also, in regards to the Spell Shield Falchion, you get it Small Sized so it's one-handed and buy a Sword of Avoidance (same book) in the other hand. Now your Total-Defense option not only reflect Spells, but grants +4 Luck to AC/Saves. :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 08, 2013, 03:38:00 PM
Battle Magic Tactics:  (feat?)
Through intense training and impeccable timing, you and your allies learn to augment each other's magical attacks when you focus your efforts on a single target.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 6 ranks, arcane caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a spell that requires the target to make a saving throw, that target gains a Battle Magic Tactics token after the spell resolves. A creature gains a token whether the save succeeds or fails, but a creature that avoids a spell through spell resistance does not gain a token. Each Battle Magic Tactics token imposes a cumulative -1 penalty on saving throws against the spells of spellcasters that have this feat. At the end of each round all Battle Magic Tactics tokens disappear.

This has to be some how abused.


1st level spell with save, who cares if it misses or damages or causes conditions.
Stick it into one of those Spell Sequencer loop thingies (which idk enough about)
... or one of T_G's  inf lesser spells loops = Massive save penalty.

Then tag them with something that normally has a Save ... effectively not anymore.
Better than a Psi Nova.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Dragon lord on September 09, 2013, 02:13:48 AM
Battle Magic Tactics:  (feat?)
Through intense training and impeccable timing, you and your allies learn to augment each other's magical attacks when you focus your efforts on a single target.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 6 ranks, arcane caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a spell that requires the target to make a saving throw, that target gains a Battle Magic Tactics token after the spell resolves. A creature gains a token whether the save succeeds or fails, but a creature that avoids a spell through spell resistance does not gain a token. Each Battle Magic Tactics token imposes a cumulative -1 penalty on saving throws against the spells of spellcasters that have this feat. At the end of each round all Battle Magic Tactics tokens disappear.

This has to be some how abused.


1st level spell with save, who cares if it misses or damages or causes conditions.
Stick it into one of those Spell Sequencer loop thingies (which idk enough about)
... or one of T_G's  inf lesser spells loops = Massive save penalty.

Then tag them with something that normally has a Save ... effectively not anymore.
Better than a Psi Nova.
How about a castle full of low level wizards supporting the troops and the high level court Mage providing arterial support.  That would then make them the magical equivalent of the old archer units.  Only issue is you really want to be working with long range spells for that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on September 09, 2013, 08:16:44 AM
Are there any Least Eldritch Essence invocations that require a save?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Kasz on September 09, 2013, 10:36:16 AM
Are there any Least Eldritch Essence invocations that require a save?

Baleful Utterance (which is shatter with a fort save on crystalline creatures for half... or will save on an object.)
Miasmic Cloud (Fort save or become fatigued)

Summon Swarm kinda has one, but it's the swarm's ability and probably wouldn't count.

Miasmic Cloud is your best bet, assuming the target isn't immune to fort saves or fatigue.

EDIT: Forgot essences, you can add sickening blast or fearful blast, fort vs sicken, will vs fear. Need to hit with a eldritch blast.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on September 09, 2013, 01:33:36 PM
Are there any Least Eldritch Essence invocations that require a save?

Baleful Utterance (which is shatter with a fort save on crystalline creatures for half... or will save on an object.)
Miasmic Cloud (Fort save or become fatigued)

Summon Swarm kinda has one, but it's the swarm's ability and probably wouldn't count.

Miasmic Cloud is your best bet, assuming the target isn't immune to fort saves or fatigue.

EDIT: Forgot essences, you can add sickening blast or fearful blast, fort vs sicken, will vs fear. Need to hit with a eldritch blast.

Yeah, Miasmic Cloud looks like it would work best. I asked about Essences because Glaive could be abused to get multiple tokens on a single target in one round.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 09, 2013, 01:35:21 PM
Battle Magic Tactics specifies "spells."  Would Invocations/essences count?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 09, 2013, 03:07:11 PM
Battle Magic Tactics:
Through intense training and impeccable timing, you and your allies learn to augment each other's magical attacks when you focus your efforts on a single target.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 6 ranks, arcane caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a spell that requires the target to make a saving throw, that target gains a Battle Magic Tactics token after the spell resolves. A creature gains a token whether the save succeeds or fails, but a creature that avoids a spell through spell resistance does not gain a token. Each Battle Magic Tactics token imposes a cumulative -1 penalty on saving throws against the spells of spellcasters that have this feat. At the end of each round all Battle Magic Tactics tokens disappear.

This has to be some how abused.
There's a teamwork benefit in the DMG2 that does the same thing but triggered only by Reflex spells, and -2 to Reflex rather than -1 to everything.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 09, 2013, 04:41:31 PM
Stack 'em.

Come on, you know you want to inflict a cumulative -3 to their Reflex saves vs. spells...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 09, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
Stack 'em.

Come on, you know you want to inflict a cumulative -3 to their Reflex saves vs. spells...
Wait, are we about to make multi-Fireball-spam /viable/?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 09, 2013, 05:03:37 PM
Wow , so like 6 or 7 hits or not much, to make a Reflex save go away.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 09, 2013, 05:08:04 PM
Yeah, why not? 8 fireballs means that the last save is at a -24 penalty.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 09, 2013, 05:09:09 PM
Hm, unfortunately Spell Barrage (the teamwork benefit) affects an area, while Battle Magic Tactics affects targets. On the plus side, Spell Barrage penalises saves against "effects", not spells.


Speaking of the DMG2, the Bonding Rituals can be pretty amazing. Pick one item and you can improve it as if you had the required crafting feat (caster level = character level), ignoring all prereqs other than class features and skill ranks, but the added properties only work for you. You also get a minor side-bonus depending on the ritual. At 6th level you can take the Truebond feat, giving you a second bonus and locate object (CL = character level, bonded item only) as a spell-like ability at will; the SLA could be used to meet prereqs (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9671).
EDIT: Insightful Divination (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Insightful_Divination) anyone? Fatespinner? Unseen Seer?

Ritual NameBenefitTruebond
Blood+2 on Knowledge checks against one creature type+4 damage against same creature type
Dread+2 on saves to remove negative levelsIgnore penalties of one negative level
Faith+1 Will versus spells/SLAs of outsiders of alignments different to yoursAttacks and magical effects coming from the item gain your alignment, and abilities that improve your alignment-based spells apply to the item
Fire+1 on saves vs fire effectsFire resistance 10
Honor+1 initiative while the item is on your person but unequipped+4 dodge to AC vs AoOs from creatures you haven't attacked
Magic+1 on caster level checks while the item is equipped+1 on saves against spells/SLAs while the item is equipped
Purity+1 on Con checks and Con-based skill checksFatigue does not inflict Str or Dex penalties
Song+1 Perform while item is equipped+1 caster level for spells with both V+S components while item is equipped
Theft+1 Open Lock/Search when taking 10+2 Open Lock/Search when taking 20, +2 Bluff/Disable Device/Sleight of Hand when taking 10
Travel+1 Survival and any check boosted by the Endurance featNonmagical terrain never halves your speed
I've left out the prereqs and the tasks you have to perform to create a bond.


EDIT: Combine Heighten Spell-like AbilityCArc with Godsight (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Godsight) or Raumathor Heritor (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Raumathor_Heritor) and you can bypass the prereqs for the LoredelverRoD PrC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 09, 2013, 06:00:04 PM
OK, Truebonded Faith could be really good; I'm going to go check to see if there are any nice effects that boost aligned spells. I mean, beyond the normal DC or CL increases.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 10, 2013, 03:07:01 AM
More from Arms and Equipment...

Dancing shield grants 1/2 its shield bonus as a cover bonus.
Balanced weapon allows a weapon to be wielded in one hand by a creature one size smaller.
- thus a half-orc could wield a pair of Large scythes.
Axe of Pairs grants an extra offhand attack.
Battleaxe of the Bull grants Imp Bull Rush, and when used with 2 hands, automatically bull rushes a hit foe back 5ft no check.
- The Dungeoncrasher's ideal weapon.
Libram of Flesh craft flesh golems w/o the needed spells. Grant your flesh golem 5 abilities from the donor bodies.
Sparring Dummy grants monks the ability to take 10ft steps. Sell it after you train
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on September 10, 2013, 08:45:28 AM
More from Arms and Equipment...

Dancing shield grants 1/2 its shield bonus as a cover bonus.
Balanced weapon allows a weapon to be wielded in one hand by a creature one size smaller.
- thus a half-orc could wield a pair of Large scythes.
Axe of Pairs grants an extra offhand attack.
Battleaxe of the Bull grants Imp Bull Rush, and when used with 2 hands, automatically bull rushes a hit foe back 5ft no check.
- The Dungeoncrasher's ideal weapon.
Libram of Flesh craft flesh golems w/o the needed spells. Grant your flesh golem 5 abilities from the donor bodies.
Sparring Dummy grants monks the ability to take 10ft steps. Sell it after you train

Arms and Equipment is a 3.0 product, and so uses 3.0 weapon size rules. In 3.0, weapons 1 size larger than you were the equivalent of two-handed, so Balanced is only letting you use weapons one-handed that you could normally use two-handed, which is about the same as using 3.5's Strongarm Bracers or Monkey Grip.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 10, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
But as you said before, it was never included in the update.

yes, they changed the way weapons are 'held'. But there is still similar rules in 3.5 on weapon size and changes due to a different sized creature holding them.

RAW it still works because of how it is written. It mentions both 'handed' and size, which are terms in 3.5.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on September 11, 2013, 06:15:24 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 11, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).


according to the Shadow Curse ability, natural sleep counts as being unconscious. Now all that unconscious = willing cheese is RAW.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 11, 2013, 07:02:30 PM
Shadow Curse looks rather nasty not good.
v1 ... opt for the Will DC 15 as soon as possible
v2 ... resist Dazing is the Wilder stuff, still needs resist Stun and resist Staggered , assume Uncon is coup-d-grace.


What's the trick with Sleep = Unconscious = roxxors ??
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 11, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
What's the trick with Sleep = Unconscious = roxxors ??
For any spell that requires "Target: Willing Creature(s)," unconscious characters are always considered willing.  The game was designed this way so that a party could avert a TPK by teleporting out with your unconscious body, etc, as teleport is target 'you plus other touched willing creatures.'

The shadow curse is interesting.  It's basically the same thing as what Shadar-Kai (FF) have.  These articles came out within 6 months of Fiend Folio hitting shelves.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 11, 2013, 08:03:03 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).
You can use that to meet the prereqs for Shadowcrafter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shadowcrafter/) at lv1.
EDIT: Shadowcraft Mage too.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 11, 2013, 11:35:18 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).
You can use that to meet the prereqs for Shadowcrafter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shadowcrafter/) at lv1.
EDIT: Shadowcraft Mage too.
Just make sure you use Ability Rip ASAP to get rid of that curse.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 12, 2013, 01:29:53 AM
Knight Protector (http://dndtools.eu/classes/knight-protector/)s get 3.0's Supreme Cleave as a class feature at 3rd level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on September 12, 2013, 02:59:00 AM
EDIT: Shadowcraft Mage too.

 :jumping
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: brujon on September 12, 2013, 10:07:40 AM
Knight Protector (http://dndtools.eu/classes/knight-protector/)s get 3.0's Supreme Cleave as a class feature at 3rd level.

Railroad of murdered commonners - fastest means of transportation!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 12, 2013, 10:12:17 AM
Knight Protector (http://dndtools.eu/classes/knight-protector/)s get 3.0's Supreme Cleave as a class feature at 3rd level.

Railroad of murdered commonners - fastest means of transportation!
Now your fighter actually /can/ kill everyone in that army as a standard action!... wait, can you cleave off of an Ubercharge, and still get teh massive damages!!11!!!one!? :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on September 12, 2013, 11:19:08 AM
Are you still limited to just one 5' step per round though?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 12, 2013, 12:27:11 PM
Are you still limited to just one 5' step per round though?
Hm. I don't /think/ so, because you can normally take 5' steps in the middle of a full-attack action... (Or at least that's what I've always thought, I might be wrong)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on September 12, 2013, 12:32:20 PM
Supreme Cleave just seems to remove the "You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack" limitation of Cleave.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on September 12, 2013, 03:13:11 PM
Yes, the 3.0 version of Supreme Cleave made that very clear.  It only added an extra occasion for using the 5 foot step, not extra uses.  Which stinks, Fighters never get any cool toys. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 12, 2013, 03:47:43 PM
Oh hi dere Evasive Reflexes, when did you come in?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: tuesdayscoming on September 12, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).
You can use that to meet the prereqs for Shadowcrafter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shadowcrafter/) at lv1.
EDIT: Shadowcraft Mage too.

Forgive me, but does this really work? As I understand it, the ability to use a Spell-like ability =/= the ability to cast a spell for purposes of meeting prerequisites.

Am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 12, 2013, 07:11:29 PM
Check out the Shadow Bound (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030728a) template.  For only +1 LA you get Shadow Blend and Shadow Walk SLA (apparently at will).
You can use that to meet the prereqs for Shadowcrafter (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shadowcrafter/) at lv1.
EDIT: Shadowcraft Mage too.

Forgive me, but does this really work? As I understand it, the ability to use a Spell-like ability =/= the ability to cast a spell for purposes of meeting prerequisites.

Am I mistaken?

You are. Check Complete Arcane, pg 72.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: tuesdayscoming on September 12, 2013, 07:57:15 PM

Forgive me, but does this really work? As I understand it, the ability to use a Spell-like ability =/= the ability to cast a spell for purposes of meeting prerequisites.

Am I mistaken?

You are. Check Complete Arcane, pg 72.

Hmm... Not by my reading. The rules there say "requirements for feats and prestige classes based on specific levels of spells cast (“Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells,” for example) cannot be met by spell-like abilities or invocations—not even spell-like abilities or invocations that allow a character to use a specific arcane spell of the appropriate level or higher."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 12, 2013, 08:49:02 PM

Forgive me, but does this really work? As I understand it, the ability to use a Spell-like ability =/= the ability to cast a spell for purposes of meeting prerequisites.

Am I mistaken?

You are. Check Complete Arcane, pg 72.

Hmm... Not by my reading. The rules there say "requirements for feats and prestige classes based on specific levels of spells cast (“Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells,” for example) cannot be met by spell-like abilities or invocations—not even spell-like abilities or invocations that allow a character to use a specific arcane spell of the appropriate level or higher."

On the other hand it also has this on the same page:

Quote
A requirement based on a specific spell measures whether the character or creature in question is capable of producing the necessary effect, and as such, invocations and spell-like abilities that generate the relevant effect meet the requirements for specific spell knowledge. For example, a prestige class with a spellcasting requirement of “Must know (or be able to cast) darkness” is met by a warlock who chooses darkness as one of her invocations, or by any creature with darkness as a spell-like ability.

So you're both wrong and right. It's debatable whether "specific spell" includes the Shadowcrafter prereq of "Able to cast any 3rd-level or higher spell with the illusion (shadow) descriptor." or if it has to name the spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Meiliken on September 17, 2013, 06:41:20 AM
There are 2 classes with the same name.  Corsair.   The first one is in dragon 310 pg 34.  It is a fighter variant.  Then there is the second one in dragon 321 pg 86.  The 2nd one is a prestige class.  There is a bonus extra of a 3rd one that is the Scarlet Corsair(stormwrack) that is a prestige class, but since it adds that extra "scarlet" it doesn't fall into the idea of the same name ;)  Interesting find to me heh.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TiaC on September 17, 2013, 02:31:22 PM
I just noticed how good Water Devotion is in E6. Summon a Medium Water elemental for a minute with a standard action. Extra uses only cost 1 turn attempt. Yes Please! I could pull my weight in most E6 parties I've seen with a Warrior 5/Cleric 1 and this feat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 17, 2013, 04:48:51 PM
There are 2 classes with the same name.  Corsair.   The first one is in dragon 310 pg 34.  It is a fighter variant.  Then there is the second one in dragon 321 pg 86.  The 2nd one is a prestige class.  There is a bonus extra of a 3rd one that is the Scarlet Corsair(stormwrack) that is a prestige class, but since it adds that extra "scarlet" it doesn't fall into the idea of the same name ;)  Interesting find to me heh.

Hey that'll work in Gestalt for a Corsair Corsair ~Corsair, still room left over for something else/good/better/boosting.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 17, 2013, 06:57:06 PM
Hexer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/hexer/) is pretty nice. Full BAB, lots of bonus spells (without a "one level lower" restriction), and the gaze attacks are decent. The spell prereq was meant for adepts, but Alternative Source Spell and Southern Magician should be able to get you in. OA shugenja also qualifies.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 17, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on September 17, 2013, 08:54:53 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.

I keep forgetting that template classes and monster classes have different rules.

Perhaps found a Legacy Item that turns it's owner into a Vampire, then use that for Legacy Champion.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 17, 2013, 09:19:44 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.

I keep forgetting that template classes and monster classes have different rules.

Perhaps found a Legacy Item that turns it's owner into a Vampire, then use that for Legacy Champion.
Er... can someone explain the difference to me? I'm... missing them, somehow.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on September 17, 2013, 09:31:04 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.

I keep forgetting that template classes and monster classes have different rules.

Perhaps found a Legacy Item that turns it's owner into a Vampire, then use that for Legacy Champion.
Er... can someone explain the difference to me? I'm... missing them, somehow.

You can multiclass out of the template ones whenever you level up, but for the monster classes you can't multiclass at all until it's finished.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 17, 2013, 09:50:24 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.

I keep forgetting that template classes and monster classes have different rules.

Perhaps found a Legacy Item that turns it's owner into a Vampire, then use that for Legacy Champion.
Er... can someone explain the difference to me? I'm... missing them, somehow.

You can multiclass out of the template ones whenever you level up, but for the monster classes you can't multiclass at all until it's finished.

I think that's only for the Savage Progression template classes. I'm not aware of any outside the Savage Progression articles though so that may not be relevant...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 17, 2013, 10:07:40 PM
Source on the template classes?  Or is it SS?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 17, 2013, 10:39:04 PM
Source on the template classes?  Or is it SS?

A series of online articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp). Click the "Gaining a Template Midcampaign" link.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on September 18, 2013, 01:25:45 AM
I may just be slow on the uptake, but I've never really considered the fact that eternal wands have a fixed cost for each spell level.  Almost everything else makes you pay more for spells with costly material components or xp costs.  The most practical application of that loophole I can think of is an eternal wand of identify.  It costs 820 gp to buy it, but you save 100 gp each time you don't cast identify normally, so it pays for itself after 9 uses. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on September 18, 2013, 07:54:13 AM
I may just be slow on the uptake, but I've never really considered the fact that eternal wands have a fixed cost for each spell level.  Almost everything else makes you pay more for spells with costly material components or xp costs.  The most practical application of that loophole I can think of is an eternal wand of identify.  It costs 820 gp to buy it, but you save 100 gp each time you don't cast identify normally, so it pays for itself after 9 uses.

Yeah, especially if you find one that has an XP cost. Eternal Wands are good for what they do.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 18, 2013, 03:36:14 PM
Hexer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/hexer/) is pretty nice. Full BAB, lots of bonus spells (without a "one level lower" restriction), and the gaze attacks are decent. The spell prereq was meant for adepts, but Alternative Source Spell and Southern Magician should be able to get you in. OA shugenja also qualifies.
Great for Archivists.  I've always wanted to play a Bhuka (sp? - Sandstorm) Librarian who would glare (hex) at people if they interrupted his quiet.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 18, 2013, 04:14:09 PM
Southern Magician doesn't meet prerequisites for casting Divine Spells.

It's an over emphasis on the first sentence (cast an arcane spell as divine!) vs actual rules. And it's yet another thing the FAQ clarified for you in case you forgot how to finish reading an entry. The actual source of the spell's power doesn't change (littoral quote), mechanically you simply ignore ASF, Spellcraft checks to ID are made at -4, and if the Spell it's self has two outcomes that would be dependent on if the spell were treated as arcane or divine than it's treated as such. The last part there is 3.0 rules, Magic Weapon in the 3.0 rule set granted the divine caster's Alignment to the weapon for DR and a divine cast True Seeing also detects Alignments. The 3.5 update removed such characteristics from spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 18, 2013, 04:41:01 PM
its different than a Geomancer, but that requires divine spells anyway
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 18, 2013, 05:17:43 PM
Not my find but I'm posting it here just in case people haven't seen it: Using Legacy Champion to advance the vampire template class. LC adds BAB/Saves/Skills etc. You can actually play a viable vamp this way.

I keep forgetting that template classes and monster classes have different rules.

Perhaps found a Legacy Item that turns it's owner into a Vampire, then use that for Legacy Champion.

 :plotting ... couldn't the Dirt From It's Grave fluff/mythos work as the "item"?  Or the Coffin.

Ninja'd confirm on the Template Classes, not SS Monster Progs.

Wondering  :??? if a template with LA+Something, could be put whole entirely into Legacy Champ.
If so, then wow.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 18, 2013, 05:29:21 PM
Control Weather still has different effects based on who cast it.  Druids cover a much larger area with it (+50% radius) and have it last twice as long over anyone else.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 18, 2013, 05:33:50 PM
Control Weather still has different effects based on who cast it.  Druids cover a much larger area with it (+50% radius) and have it last twice as long over anyone else.
Well, in that case some other 3.5 updated Spells may have slipped past the editor (plus of course the un-updated 3.0 spells).

I wonder if there is a way to search for them? Might be handy to know, like that's a freebie Enlarge at no cost if you get a Druid to cast it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Garryl on September 18, 2013, 05:35:16 PM
Some spells, like Identify, also have different material components or focuses depending on whether they're being cast as arcane or divine spells (and then further based on which class is casting them, such as with Scrying). There aren't that many, though, with really serious differences beyond divine focus vs. material components worth <1gp.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on September 19, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
Woohoo! Really fun find here (excuse me if this is well-known):

8th level Kensai can transfer part of their BAB or base save bonuses to a willing recipient using the Instill (Ex) ability. Here's the text:

Quote from: Kensai
Instill (Ex): Once per day, a kensai of 8th level or higher may take a full-round action to make a Concentration check (DC 10 + target's HD or character level) to impart some of his own ability into a willing ally he can touch. The kensai then transfers some of his power to the ally: He subtracts up to 1 point per class level from his base attack bonus and/or any or all of his base save bonuses and transfers the same amount to the recipient. The kensai regains the instilled power 1 hour later, when it transfers back out of the ally. If the ally dies before the instilled power is transferred back, the kensai must make a Fortitude save (DC 5 + target's HD or character level) or die as well. If he succeeds, he immediately gets his instilled powers back.

Note that the transferred BAB or base save points remain for an hour. Further note that there's no limit on how often or how much the Kensai can use this ability. Even though there's seemingly a cap in place (up to 1 point/class level), I don't see why BASE attack or save wouldn't stack, so just use this ability several times to transfer all BAB and saves to the recipient to build a real monster.

Once you've digested this, think about the Leadership feat. More specifically, think 20th level PC with an 18th level Kensai cohort. Who picks up Leadership himself and has a 16th level Kensai cohort. Who picks up Leadership again and has a 14th level Kensai cohort. Unfortunately, that's where the chain ends (Kensai cohorts need to be at least 13th level to have this ability). That still leaves us with a 20th level PC who has a BAB of +68 for (close to) an hour. And what will we do with that?



.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 19, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
IIRC, the trick I saw with that was to also have/be a Warchanter, who could give a bonus to attacks equal to their BAB to a whole group of people via a Bardic music-like ability...

Edit: Yep. Inspire Legion (10th level WC ability):
Quote
When the war chanter begins singing, determine the best base attack bonus among all the affected characters. All affected characters use this base attack bonus or the war chanter's character level as their base attack bonus for the duration of the effect.

Edit2: Holy crap... This plus Inspire Recklessness (combined via the Combine Songs ability) is insanity on a group of followers with Power Attack... They could get the UBER-BAB from the Warchanter/Kensai trick, and then get that BAB again as a bonus to attack (and penalty to AC)... and then get it 2x to damage via Power Attack...

Man... now I'm thinking I should use this with a group of NPCs...  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Prime32 on September 19, 2013, 10:09:38 AM
There are more tricks you can pull off. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=91)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Iainuki on September 19, 2013, 11:49:07 AM
The major problem with inspire recklessness is that it only ever affects one target, so by the time you buff more than two or three people with it, combat's already over.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 19, 2013, 01:16:56 PM
The major problem with inspire recklessness is that it only ever affects one target, so by the time you buff more than two or three people with it, combat's already over.
Ah yeah, missed that. I'd never really looked at this class before today. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Tohron on September 19, 2013, 02:53:02 PM
Woohoo! Really fun find here (excuse me if this is well-known):

8th level Kensai can transfer part of their BAB or base save bonuses to a willing recipient using the Instill (Ex) ability. Here's the text:

Quote from: Kensai
Instill (Ex): Once per day, a kensai...

.. Further note that there's no limit on how often or how much the Kensai can use this ability...

Erm, look at the text you quoted?

On a different note, I don't suppose this could be used for meeting prereqs?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 19, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
On the subject of prerequisites, I found this little gem (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/talfirian-song--2887/), while searching for SCM stuff. Works really well with that (hey, I can have 9th-level Silent Images early), as well as working as a general early-entry trick anyways.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 19, 2013, 05:07:31 PM
Woohoo! Really fun find here (excuse me if this is well-known):

8th level Kensai can transfer part of their BAB or base save bonuses to a willing recipient using the Instill (Ex) ability. Here's the text:

Quote from: Kensai
Instill (Ex): Once per day, a kensai...

.. Further note that there's no limit on how often or how much the Kensai can use this ability...

Erm, look at the text you quoted?

On a different note, I don't suppose this could be used for meeting prereqs?

I remember some people over here using Kensai and Warchanter to enter the Dragon Ascendant PRC (it requires BAB +30)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 19, 2013, 05:26:27 PM
here's a big mistake...

Giant Maggot from Underdark

Advancement: 3-4 HD (Small); 5-8 HD (Large)

is there any other creature that skips a size when advancing?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Nytemare3701 on September 20, 2013, 12:17:22 AM
here's a big mistake...

Giant Maggot from Underdark

Advancement: 3-4 HD (Small); 5-8 HD (Large)

is there any other creature that skips a size when advancing?

Does it pupate or something?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Empirate on September 20, 2013, 05:25:55 AM
Woohoo! Really fun find here (excuse me if this is well-known):

8th level Kensai can transfer part of their BAB or base save bonuses to a willing recipient using the Instill (Ex) ability. Here's the text:

Quote from: Kensai
Instill (Ex): Once per day, a kensai...

.. Further note that there's no limit on how often or how much the Kensai can use this ability...

Erm, look at the text you quoted?

On a different note, I don't suppose this could be used for meeting prereqs?

Whoopsie.  :banghead

Oh well, still quite good if it lasts an hour... but the bonus gets much lower then, of course. A 20th level full BAB character with the Kensai Leadership chain still gets up to a +49 BAB for an hour each day, which isn't shabby considering most high-level groups' 15 min workday.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 20, 2013, 10:32:11 AM
here's a big mistake...

Giant Maggot from Underdark

Advancement: 3-4 HD (Small); 5-8 HD (Large)

is there any other creature that skips a size when advancing?

Does it pupate or something?

there is a giant fly in the same book
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 20, 2013, 03:49:37 PM
On the subject of prerequisites, I found this little gem (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/talfirian-song--2887/), while searching for SCM stuff. Works really well with that (hey, I can have 9th-level Silent Images early), as well as working as a general early-entry trick anyways.

Bard version of DMM Heighten, yes?
 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 20, 2013, 04:42:24 PM
On the subject of prerequisites, I found this little gem (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/talfirian-song--2887/), while searching for SCM stuff. Works really well with that (hey, I can have 9th-level Silent Images early), as well as working as a general early-entry trick anyways.

Bard version of DMM Heighten, yes?
 :)
Exactly!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 20, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
On the subject of prerequisites, I found this little gem (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/talfirian-song--2887/), while searching for SCM stuff. Works really well with that (hey, I can have 9th-level Silent Images early), as well as working as a general early-entry trick anyways.
Little inferior to Metamagic Song (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/metamagic-song--1932/), but nice I guess since you can Heighten to 9th level even through you only gain 6th level Spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 20, 2013, 05:55:02 PM
I think DMM should have worked like Metamagic Song in the first place; let it apply to all MM, but cap the maximum level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on September 20, 2013, 11:30:52 PM
Isn't there a race that gets unlimited uses of bardic music? I seem to remember mention of it somewhere on the boards. Seems like it would combo nicely.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 21, 2013, 12:17:34 AM
Isn't there a race that gets unlimited uses of bardic music? I seem to remember mention of it somewhere on the boards. Seems like it would combo nicely.
Firre Eladrin.  ECL 20 though, IIRC.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: tuesdayscoming on September 21, 2013, 01:00:37 AM
Isn't there a race that gets unlimited uses of bardic music? I seem to remember mention of it somewhere on the boards. Seems like it would combo nicely.
Firre Eladrin.  ECL 20 though, IIRC.

I believe that Outsider type, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Polymorph/Alter Self, etc. should let you use the bardic music ability, no? Working from memory, here.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 21, 2013, 01:32:43 AM
I can't remember if its been said before...

Umbral Spell can metamagic a light spell, the spell becomes a light and darkness spell.

does it dispel itself because the feat says the Umbral spell dispels a light spell in the same radius of its level or lower?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 21, 2013, 02:27:08 AM
I think it would.

Sadly, I don't think there's a non-Homebrew way to give a spell the [Light] descriptor. Otherwise Explosive Runes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on September 21, 2013, 05:11:10 AM
Isn't there a race that gets unlimited uses of bardic music? I seem to remember mention of it somewhere on the boards. Seems like it would combo nicely.
Firre Eladrin.  ECL 20 though, IIRC.

I believe that Outsider type, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Polymorph/Alter Self, etc. should let you use the bardic music ability, no? Working from memory, here.
Looks so.  Its 8 HD and LA +10 and the desired ability is (Su).  It isn't specifically Bardic Music though, even though it can do anything that ability can, and directly references said ability, so...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 21, 2013, 01:09:55 PM
Isn't there a race that gets unlimited uses of bardic music? I seem to remember mention of it somewhere on the boards. Seems like it would combo nicely.
Firre Eladrin.  ECL 20 though, IIRC.

I believe that Outsider type, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Polymorph/Alter Self, etc. should let you use the bardic music ability, no? Working from memory, here.
Looks so.  Its 8 HD and LA +10 and the desired ability is (Su).  It isn't specifically Bardic Music though, even though it can do anything that ability can, and directly references said ability, so...
Wizard 17/Warrior Skald 1 would qualify for either feat, and could gain the unlimited bardic music ability via Shapechange.

The same is true of Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics with the Animal Domain.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 21, 2013, 01:51:11 PM

Warrior Skald , teller of tales

Wizard 17 / Warrior Skald 1 would qualify for either feat, and could gain the unlimited bardic music ability via Shapechange.


 :embarrassed ... something fishy here.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Amechra on September 22, 2013, 07:40:41 PM
From Ghostwalk, the spell Bottomless Hate is a 2nd level Ranger spell that gives you a +1/3 CL Morale bonus to attack and damage against your Favored Enemies.

Swift Hunters rejoice!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 22, 2013, 08:38:32 PM
Bottomless Hate (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/bottomless-hate--1351/).

That actually looks worthy of taking Practiced Spellcaster for.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 22, 2013, 08:48:19 PM
Bottomless Hate (http://dndtools.eu/spells/ghostwalk--94/bottomless-hate--1351/).

That actually looks worthy of taking Practiced Spellcaster for.
If it had a swift action casting time, maybe...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 22, 2013, 09:51:51 PM
Archivist with one of the FR regional feats that gives you a favored enemy?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 22, 2013, 11:22:45 PM
Anyone remember where the quiver with infinite arrows is? There's one in the Dragon Compendium, but I could have sworn Wizards made one... perhaps on a web enhancement?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 22, 2013, 11:40:37 PM
Archivist with one of the FR regional feats that gives you a favored enemy?
Add a way to get FE: Evil, then we're talking. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on September 22, 2013, 11:57:34 PM
I remember some people over here using Kensai and Warchanter to enter the Dragon Ascendant PRC (it requires BAB +30)
Yup. Very old stuff. But hey new life into it is good. 3.5 will keep going strong at least until a new addition allows full conversion/import (seriously WotC you didn't learn from Pathfinder's one strength?)

Swift Hunters rejoice!
Hmm I never put two and two together...

Almost everything else makes you pay more for spells with costly material components or xp costs.  The most practical application of that loophole I can think of is an eternal wand of identify.  It costs 820 gp to buy it, but you save 100 gp each time you don't cast identify normally, so it pays for itself after 9 uses.
What are some other 1-3 spells with high casting costs?

"The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) So what counts as automatic. It seems like a cool way to get around the (Ex) and (Su) SQ for polymorph to me...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Maat Mons on September 23, 2013, 12:03:29 AM
An interesting feat:


Quote
Extra Divine Power

Type: General
Source: Dragon #343

You can use one of your divine granted abilities more often.
Prerequisite: A divinely granted class ability with a set number of uses per day.
Benefit: Choose a class ability you have from a class that grants divine spells and has a set number of uses per day, such as a shugenja's sense elements or a spirit shaman's spirit form. You may not select an ability granted by a domain. You may use the chosen ability two more times per day.
Special: You may gain this feat more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different class ability.

The aspirant cleric variant (Dragon 311, p49) has a spontaneous casting ability that can be used to cast any cleric spell, but it can only be used once per day, plus an additional time per day for each four cleric levels.  (Actually, the class skips granting another use at 20th level for some reason.)  Seems like a pretty tempting target for the feat. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 23, 2013, 09:24:23 AM
Would the Spirit Shaman's "Recall Spirit" work? It's normally only usable once per week.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 23, 2013, 06:06:08 PM
Extra Divine Power does say it only applies to stuff usable "per day."  No it wouldn't seem to work for Recall Spirit.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: nijineko on September 24, 2013, 03:15:03 PM
Anyone remember where the quiver with infinite arrows is? There's one in the Dragon Compendium, but I could have sworn Wizards made one... perhaps on a web enhancement?

it was on a web enhancement, which i believe they took down. 

it's in my archive, and here is a copy for you:

(click to show/hide)


there is also the quiver of plenty, from dragon mag and probably the one mentioned in the dragon compendium.

you could also create a magic item with the call bolt power or equivalent spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 24, 2013, 03:28:16 PM
Anyone remember where the quiver with infinite arrows is? There's one in the Dragon Compendium, but I could have sworn Wizards made one... perhaps on a web enhancement?

it was on a web enhancement, which i believe they took down. 

it's in my archive, and here is a copy for you:

(click to show/hide)


there is also the quiver of plenty, from dragon mag and probably the one mentioned in the dragon compendium.

you could also create a magic item with the call bolt power or equivalent spell.
Quiver of Plenty is the one in the Dragon Compendium, yes. Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 25, 2013, 11:55:10 PM
From the Dragonborn racial traits:
Quote from: RotD pg 8
Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids
with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes
they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For
all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a
dragon
and a member of her original race.

...A dragonborn is considered a dragon.  Was this ever errata'd?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on September 26, 2013, 01:31:49 AM
That's what the Dragonblood subtype does.  Makes you a dragon for specific purposes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on September 26, 2013, 02:52:34 AM
No, the Dragonblood subtype means "spells, effects, powers, and abilities that affect or target dragons" also affect you, and you can use items normally only usable by dragons.  Dragonborn says you count as a dragon for all effects related to race - a Dragonborn qualifies for Dragon-only prestige classes and feats, whereas the Dragonblood subtype alone wouldn't let you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 26, 2013, 09:01:52 AM
No, the Dragonblood subtype means "spells, effects, powers, and abilities that affect or target dragons" also affect you, and you can use items normally only usable by dragons.  Dragonborn says you count as a dragon for all effects related to race - a Dragonborn qualifies for Dragon-only prestige classes and feats, whereas the Dragonblood subtype alone wouldn't let you.
It also means that a dragonborn can use Alter Self to turn into dragons, or creatures with his original type. :P
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 26, 2013, 11:05:55 AM
"For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race."
Has dick to do with your Creature Type.

Stupid quote out of context is still stupid quote out of context.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 26, 2013, 07:40:53 PM
I still think it would get you into prestige classes that require your race be a Dragon, though. Most of the Dragon PrC's in Draconomicon can be entered, assuming the Dragonborn meets the other prerequisites (Disciple of Ashardalon and Unholy Ravager of Tiamat are out due to other parts of the Dragonborn template, Dragon Ascendant is out because they aren't True dragons).

A Dragonborn Duskblade or Hexblade 20 with the Heart aspect, 3 Metabreath feats, and a Mantle of the Firey Soul spell cast upon them can qualify for Elemental Master, for example.  Sacred Warder of Bahumat could conceivably be started pre-epic, even.

Hmm, now I want to see if you can get all of Hidecarved Dragon in pre-epic.  Assuming a Dragonborn can get 20 natural armor by level 8 at the latest, I think you can.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 26, 2013, 11:09:55 PM
Tauric Cave Anky can get nearly all the natural armor needed
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SolEiji on September 26, 2013, 11:38:05 PM
Where is the Cave Anlyosaurus from?

Also the image of a tauric dragonborn is hilarious.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on September 26, 2013, 11:50:05 PM
Tauric Cave Anky can get nearly all the natural armor needed
Hmm.  Tauric plus cave Anky means 8HD, +2 LA, but that LA could be bought off.  Possible Mutations could make things interesting too (with no increase in HD or LA).  3 Improved Natural Armor feats are doable, and the Iron Will for Hidecarved can be bought.

Impressive.  A Dragon PrC completed by ECL 20.

Cave Dinos are from Miniature's handbook.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 27, 2013, 12:02:12 AM
I still think it would get you into prestige classes that require your race be a Dragon, though.
Intent wise, I'd agree with you there.

However, my point was Race has nothing to do with Type. Dragonborn cannot turn into another Dragon using Alter Self (which is based on type, not race). On the same token Dragonborn cannot take stuff like Awakened Frightful Presence because it also checks Type.

Now the Dragon PrCs however explicitly check your Race and in the header does mention Lesser Dragons taking levels in them. So while dubbing Prerequisites are effects is certainly out in my book, I'm still inclined to think that on an intent level a Dragonborn should be allowed to take those PrCs. And I do value intent over silly raw...
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on September 27, 2013, 05:28:07 AM
I still think it would get you into prestige classes that require your race be a Dragon, though. Most of the Dragon PrC's in Draconomicon can be entered, assuming the Dragonborn meets the other prerequisites (Disciple of Ashardalon and Unholy Ravager of Tiamat are out due to other parts of the Dragonborn template, Dragon Ascendant is out because they aren't True dragons).

A Dragonborn Duskblade or Hexblade 20 with the Heart aspect, 3 Metabreath feats, and a Mantle of the Firey Soul spell cast upon them can qualify for Elemental Master, for example.  Sacred Warder of Bahumat could conceivably be started pre-epic, even.

Hmm, now I want to see if you can get all of Hidecarved Dragon in pre-epic.  Assuming a Dragonborn can get 20 natural armor by level 8 at the latest, I think you can.
I did that years ago on 339 with Dragonwrought Kobold, not that anyone noticed.  But like all attempts at the time it used the ultra cheesy White Dragonspawn at LA 1, bought off.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Gazzien on September 27, 2013, 10:50:50 AM
Enforcer (LN Paladin Variant, Dragon Magazine, #310) gets Leadership as a bonus feat... at 5th level.

Also, a +1 to their leadership score.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 27, 2013, 11:03:16 AM
Enforcer (LN Paladin Variant, Dragon Magazine, #310) gets Leadership as a bonus feat... at 5th level.

Also, a +1 to their leadership score.

The LE Despot (Dragon 312) also gets Leadership at 5th with a +1.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on September 27, 2013, 12:21:06 PM
I've always liked those issues, plus #300
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Ithamar on September 27, 2013, 02:13:30 PM
Tauric Cave Anky can get nearly all the natural armor needed
Hmm.  Tauric plus cave Anky means 8HD, +2 LA, but that LA could be bought off.  Possible Mutations could make things interesting too (with no increase in HD or LA).  3 Improved Natural Armor feats are doable, and the Iron Will for Hidecarved can be bought.
I was under the impression that Dragonborn wiped out your natural armor though.  It takes away all of your pre-existing racial characteristics, including bonus feats and skill points, so I'd presume natural armor (and natural weapons) go as well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 27, 2013, 03:36:10 PM
What is it about Horses, that they don't like LN or LE Paladins?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 27, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
What is it about Horses, that they don't like LN or LE Paladins?
Discipline without compassion = they beat their animals to make them obey.  ;)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on September 27, 2013, 09:53:49 PM
What is it about Horses, that they don't like LN or LE Paladins?
Discipline without compassion = they beat their animals to make them obey.  ;)

Reminds me of the half-orc druid sub level where you can use str instead of cha for wild empathy.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 28, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
Baernoloth's revenge then, or secret plot as usual ?

(http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2009/09/10/svSTRIKE_wideweb__470x318,0.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Keldar on September 29, 2013, 05:03:15 AM
Tauric Cave Anky can get nearly all the natural armor needed
Hmm.  Tauric plus cave Anky means 8HD, +2 LA, but that LA could be bought off.  Possible Mutations could make things interesting too (with no increase in HD or LA).  3 Improved Natural Armor feats are doable, and the Iron Will for Hidecarved can be bought.
I was under the impression that Dragonborn wiped out your natural armor though.  It takes away all of your pre-existing racial characteristics, including bonus feats and skill points, so I'd presume natural armor (and natural weapons) go as well.
Wouldn't matter if it didn't, the Cave Ankyl can't meet the Will prerequisite.  Nothing can in 8 levels without massive multiclassing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2013, 03:42:01 AM
It seems that you can take Ability Focus for many class abilities

Spells, powers, maneuvers, etc.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: altpersona on October 01, 2013, 03:49:37 AM
Aid Another is the first listing under the Special Attacks header on D20srd.org

im not 100% sure that the +2 "DC" from Ability Focus is applicable, but it would be nice to double the default value. all of a sudden the wizard stuck in melee w/out spells is giving a +4 to hit w/out magic. if its applicable.

Two Weapon Fighting is also under that section. if it works like that.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on October 01, 2013, 10:16:51 AM
It seems that you can take Ability Focus for many class abilities

Spells, powers, maneuvers, etc.
Yes, but I believe it is only for a single spell, power, or maneuver.  For example, you could not take "Ability Focus (Spells)," but you could take "Ability Focus (Finger of Death)."  The reason why is because "spells" refers to the collection of abilities, not the abilities themselves.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2013, 11:04:28 AM
But under several monsters before the new stat block, 'spellcasting' is the SA. It was not divided up by each spell
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 01, 2013, 11:48:35 AM
But under several monsters before the new stat block, 'spellcasting' is the SA. It was not divided up by each spell
Umm. No.

A. Arcane & Divine Talent don't have a Save DC, you cannot take Ability Focus for them.
B. Instead of quoting GitP hearsay trash that's proven to be as accurate as zook1shoe, you could have taken the minute to read MMV's section on reading the entries which separates Spellcasting from Special Attacks & Qualities. Which is further demonstrated by several creature entries that obtained real Class levels, such as the Hobgoblin Duskblade a whole two pages before a Hobgoblin with Arcane Talent. Or even the Spells section in the MMv's Glossary. You know, just about anywhere in that book rather than posted hearsay shit.
C. Lastly, MMV & FCII's new Talent thing is creature specific rules. They don't appear in the MMV's glossary, headers, or descriptors. They do not note they are an update or change things retro activity. So while Polymorph/Shapechange can, and only can, be used to turn into those specific creatures to obtain the key Talent ability. There is no foundation to claim Polymorph can let you obtain a Solar's Spellcasting or anything of the like without houserules. And claiming Spellcasting in Ex is a fundamental failure on your part worthy of total ostracization as you have fully and whole heatedly proven your inability & lazyness to preform proper research into a topic while simultaneously showcasing your creative imagination to fabricate your desired results without any regard to what is real or not.

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 01, 2013, 01:01:10 PM
SorO, what the heck are you talking about.  Zook's post had nothing to do with Shapechange, nothing to do with Arcane or Divine Talent, nothing to do with whether Spells are Ex, and nothing to do with MMV.  He even specified "before the new stat block". 

In MM1, monsters with spellcasting have "Spells" listed under "Special Attacks".  His argument is that since Spells are apparently all a single Special Attack (according to the old stat blocks), Ability Focus should apply to all of them. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on October 01, 2013, 01:15:28 PM
SorO is trying to bring up a completely different argument, and has such a knee jerk "IT MUST BE WRONG" response to it that he's actually not even aware of what's being said right now and isn't paying attention to RAW here at all.  This is why I stopped debating that particular point with him.

The old stat blocks did indeed specify that "spells" in general, like all class abilities, are a singular Special Attack.  The new stat blocks simply don't specify anything about them (except for Arcane Talent and that Lilitu ability, which are listed as IIRC Ex Special Qualities and which function just like class ability based spellcasting).  So yes, technically you could take Ability Focus for "Spells" if you wanted.  I imagine it would only apply to the spells of one specific class at a time if for some reason you had two (Mystic Theurges and the like).

But no, there's no doubt that under the old stat blocks spells are special attacks.  It says so very clearly hundreds of times.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2013, 03:05:21 PM
thank you, linklord 231 and JaronK!

Races of the Wild (pg 112) has a stat block with both arcane and divine spells as a single ability.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on October 01, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
Gah, so I guess even the theurges can have fun with that one.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: TuggyNE on October 01, 2013, 10:58:58 PM
And claiming Spellcasting in Ex is a fundamental failure on your part worthy of total ostracization as you have fully and whole heatedly proven your inability & lazyness to preform proper research into a topic while simultaneously showcasing your creative imagination to fabricate your desired results without any regard to what is real or not.

Anyone advocating total ostracization of someone just because they're wrong about something should themselves be totally ostracized.

... wait, did I just totally ostracize myself? Man, this "ethics" stuff is hard. :rolleyes
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 01, 2013, 11:09:33 PM
Don't bother, he didn't understand what I was trying to say.

"Spellcasting qualifies for Ability Focus feat."
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: jojolagger on October 01, 2013, 11:53:16 PM
ELH.
an adult force dragon is ECL 45. It has 45 HD. Sure, it's only one data point, but as the only data point, it means force dragons are LA +0.
Same for prismatic dragons.

The interesting thing is that this means Force dragons are playable pre-epic. Barely.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 02, 2013, 12:08:41 AM
No, it means only that age category is +0, since there is no LA indicated for the other ages.

but that table has some of the most outlandish LAs in the game.

Atropal has a -30 LA, which means your 36 level game has a 66 HD character  :twitch
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: ksbsnowowl on October 02, 2013, 12:55:24 AM
Abjurant Champion is awesome when tacked onto True Dragons:

Quote
Martial Arcanist (Ex): At 5th level, you master the art of combining your militant and mystical training. From this point on, your caster level in a chosen arcane spellcasting class is equal to your base attack bonus (unless it would otherwise be higher). For example, a 7th-level fighter/1st-level wizard/5th-level abjurant champion has a base attack bonus of +12 (and thus a caster level of 12th). You can apply this benefit to only one arcane class to which you have added spellcasting levels by your advancement as an abjurant champion.

Most dragons have a BAB well above their CR.  By the Very Old age category all the Core Chromatics have a BAB 10 or more above their CR.  Up the CR by 5 for the levels of Abjurant Champion, and make it a lot tougher for the PC's to dispel his buffs.  An adult red dragon with 5 levels of Abjurant Champion would be a CR 20, cast as a 12th level sorcerer, but also have a CL of 27.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on October 02, 2013, 07:51:08 AM
ELH.
an adult force dragon is ECL 45. It has 45 HD. Sure, it's only one data point, but as the only data point, it means force dragons are LA +0.
Same for prismatic dragons.

The interesting thing is that this means Force dragons are playable pre-epic. Barely.

If you feel like being a complete dick to a DM, you can use the ECL rules from PGtF to play that dragon at 1st level (you take a -44 penalty to EVERYTHING involving your d20, but that shouldn't matter too much).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 02, 2013, 08:41:24 AM
Anyone advocating total ostracization of someone just because they're wrong about something should themselves be totally ostracized.
Maybe. But example text in a secondary (or tertiary) source further trumped by the RC hardly matters. Secondly, "Spells", ie spellcasting, does not have a Save DC. An individual Spell might, but (obviously) the ability to cast a Spell doesn't.

Its like if I were to state a 1st level Fighter is the strongest Character you could make. Then rationaled the reason why is because his BAB granted him 12 attacks which allows him to take Epic Strength. The nonsense of piled up lies is hard to wrap you're head around, but you know for a fact it's wrong multiple times over. I'd miss my self proclaimed side job if I missed the chance to nip something like that in the bud when it pops up.

If you feel like being a complete dick to a DM, you can use the ECL rules from PGtF to play that dragon at 1st level (you take a -44 penalty to EVERYTHING involving your d20, but that shouldn't matter too much).
Doesn't the SS do the same with all creatures?
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on October 02, 2013, 11:25:01 AM
Anyone advocating total ostracization of someone just because they're wrong about something should themselves be totally ostracized.
Maybe. But example text in a secondary (or tertiary) source further trumped by the RC hardly matters. Secondly, "Spells", ie spellcasting, does not have a Save DC. An individual Spell might, but (obviously) the ability to cast a Spell doesn't.

The primary source (Monster Manual 1) lists Spells as a Special Attack in the definition of Special Attacks.  Every single creature with the old stat blocks (including all the ones in the primary source on Special Attacks) that has the Spells ability has them listed as a Special Attack.  They're Special Attacks.  The prerequisite for Ability Focus is "Special Attack."  Get over it.

I know, I know, you don't want it to be true.  Believe me, we all get it.

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 02, 2013, 12:26:42 PM
To be fair, a stat block or a table (let alone a stat block in a table, like some creatures have) is a secondary/tertiary source, even though it appears in a "primary sourcebook". 

However, Spells are still listed under Special Attacks (renamed to just "SA") in the new statblocks.  And they have their own Glossary entry in both old and new MMs.  So there's really no argument against being able to take Ability Focus: Spells. 

If you do this, expect flying books.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: snakeman830 on October 02, 2013, 01:12:51 PM
Still, "Spells" does not have a save DC.  While you could select Ability Focus (Spells) RAW, it won't do anything.

Now, selecting Ability Focus for a specific spell would be a different story.  It would still fall under special attacks, but now we actually have a save DC to add to (assuming the spell has a save).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on October 02, 2013, 01:27:59 PM
Doesn't the SS do the same with all creatures?

Not the way PGtF does it. You start as the full-blown Adult Force Dragon, but have a penalty to most d20 rolls equal to what your ECL adjustment is.

Specifically, it's a -X penalty to skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, the save DC of spells/SLAs/SUAs, and to your AC (but only up to what your race provides in terms of natural armor, dodge bonuses, deflection bonuses, and so forth; Dex bonus is unaffected). You then get all of your racial traits, RHD, feats, skill points, etc. Those penalties won't mean shit.

Oh, and the penalty is technically equal to the level adjustment, not ECL adjustment. So you'd start with a -0, and the stats of an Adult Force Dragon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on October 02, 2013, 01:40:34 PM
Still, "Spells" does not have a save DC.  While you could select Ability Focus (Spells) RAW, it won't do anything.

Now, selecting Ability Focus for a specific spell would be a different story.  It would still fall under special attacks, but now we actually have a save DC to add to (assuming the spell has a save).
Snakeman seems to have the right of it; Consider the Solar; SLA's and Spells both. Ability focus would have to work for all of a creature's SLA's to work for all of a creature's Spells; they're described identically. The spells can be changed is all.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: linklord231 on October 02, 2013, 01:42:03 PM
Still, "Spells" does not have a save DC.  While you could select Ability Focus (Spells) RAW, it won't do anything.

Now, selecting Ability Focus for a specific spell would be a different story.  It would still fall under special attacks, but now we actually have a save DC to add to (assuming the spell has a save).

You follow all the same rules as normal spellcasting, which includes the setting the DC to 10+spell level+primary stat mod.  Monsters might have issues with determining which stat is primary, but you should be able to figure it out easily enough. 

Edit:
Snakeman seems to have the right of it; Consider the Solar; SLA's and Spells both. Ability focus would have to work for all of a creature's SLA's to work for all of a creature's Spells; they're described identically. The spells can be changed is all.
You would appear to be correct.  I'll have to think about this some more.
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Chemus on October 02, 2013, 02:07:14 PM
You follow all the same rules as normal spellcasting, which includes the setting the DC to 10+spell level+primary stat mod.  Monsters might have issues with determining which stat is primary, but you should be able to figure it out easily enough.

Actually, the ability that the Saves are based off of is listed. For example, Solars use Wisdom; "...The save DCs are Wisdom-based.", to quote the SRD's entry. Note the plural on 'DCs', however, as well as the plurals on 'Spell Like Abilities' and 'Spells' as well. Each spell/SLA is a special ability. Not each school or all spells/SLAs at once.

If the Special Ability were named 'Spell Casting', it might be one ability for the purpose of Ability Focus, but it's not.

Quote
You would appear to be correct.  I'll have to think about this some more.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:45:20 AM by linklord231 »

Ahh ninja edits are awesome-sauce

Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: JaronK on October 02, 2013, 03:00:28 PM
To be fair, a stat block or a table (let alone a stat block in a table, like some creatures have) is a secondary/tertiary source, even though it appears in a "primary sourcebook". 

Actually, I was mostly referring to the general entry in MM about Special Attacks... it lists Spells there as an example.  This is in addition to the whole 'every stat block says it" issue.  So... primary and secondary sources agree. 

The fact that spells have different DCs (and some don't even have a DC) is kind of irrelevant here, since the prerequisite is only that it be a Special Attack.  Which it is.  How it functions is unclear... and I highly doubt Ability Focus was intended to be used this way.  Once again, the designers forgot to consider spellcasting when they wrote something that cares about ability types.  What a shock!

JaronK
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 02, 2013, 05:24:15 PM

Not the way PGtF does it. You start as the full-blown Adult Force Dragon, but have a penalty to most d20 rolls equal to what your ECL adjustment is.

Specifically, it's a -X penalty to skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, the save DC of spells/SLAs/SUAs, and to your AC (but only up to what your race provides in terms of natural armor, dodge bonuses, deflection bonuses, and so forth; Dex bonus is unaffected). You then get all of your racial traits, RHD, feats, skill points, etc. Those penalties won't mean shit.

Oh, and the penalty is technically equal to the level adjustment, not ECL adjustment. So you'd start with a -0, and the stats of an Adult Force Dragon.

 :o ... Tell me again why no one's ever bothered with playing an Adult Force Dragon from level 1 (with some -44 penalties).
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Jackinthegreen on October 02, 2013, 05:46:02 PM

Not the way PGtF does it. You start as the full-blown Adult Force Dragon, but have a penalty to most d20 rolls equal to what your ECL adjustment is.

Specifically, it's a -X penalty to skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, the save DC of spells/SLAs/SUAs, and to your AC (but only up to what your race provides in terms of natural armor, dodge bonuses, deflection bonuses, and so forth; Dex bonus is unaffected). You then get all of your racial traits, RHD, feats, skill points, etc. Those penalties won't mean shit.

Oh, and the penalty is technically equal to the level adjustment, not ECL adjustment. So you'd start with a -0, and the stats of an Adult Force Dragon.

 :o ... Tell me again why no one's ever bothered with playing an Adult Force Dragon from level 1 (with some -44 penalties).

Book to the head!
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 02, 2013, 06:09:28 PM
However, Spells are still listed under Special Attacks (renamed to just "SA") in the new statblocks.
That's a highly inaccurate statement.

Since it's technically off topic;
(click to show/hide)

Also we're on page 50. Time for a new thread :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: zook1shoe on October 02, 2013, 06:31:17 PM
continue to Fun Finds 4.0 (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11474.new#new)
Title: Re: Fun Finds v4.0
Post by: Sinfire Titan on October 03, 2013, 11:02:39 AM
Closed due to page limit.