You should add more racial feats.
Also, your main Verold post Prestige Classes link actually links to Feats, and none of the individual prestige class links work.
I don't really have any suggestions except that ferrets more love. :P
I don't really have any suggestions except that ferrets more love. :P
More love?
I don't really have any suggestions except that ferrets more love. :P
More love?
Indeed. My favorite clan doesn't have any racial feats! :o
I'm not good at actually coming up with ideas so I'm not sure what actual help I can be. Feel free to ignore me. :p
Edit: I just realized that I meant to say ferrets NEED more love. Apparently I was in a hurry.
The best I can come up with is a feat to let a ferret in animal form use small size tools without penalty. Hybrid form takes too much of an investment. :P
The best I can come up with is a feat to let a ferret in animal form use small size tools without penalty. Hybrid form takes too much of an investment. :P
I like it, but hybrid form would only take one additional feat and gives far more other bonuses, so I almost think that alone would not be enough.
The best I can come up with is a feat to let a ferret in animal form use small size tools without penalty. Hybrid form takes too much of an investment. :P
I like it, but hybrid form would only take one additional feat and gives far more other bonuses, so I almost think that alone would not be enough.
True, but you'd only get hybrid form for less than an hour per day.
Was Attach meant to not include the grappled clause of the attach ability of Dire Weasels?
You should fix your links, a lot of them still link to the BG board.
The racial sub-levels thread doesn't actually have any of the racial sub-levels in it. :p
All the races should have at least one racial feat.
The norm seems to be three per race but Wolf only has two. Just throwing that out there.
Your barbarian is complicated but I like him anyway, that is all.
Fighter: No Natural weapon fighting style? It isn't needed, but I did notice its absence.
Druids still get Elemental Wildshape. Is this intentional?
Druidic Avenger abilities say Barbarian in a few places due to copy/paste.
Spontaneous Rejuvination gives access to the healing domain. You should probably say that you can prepare healing domain spells in your regular spell slots and mention whether or not you get the domain granted ability.
Monk: I can't tell if Flurry of Blows describes what happens when a morally Neutral monk hits people. You should probably clear up the wording of the fifth paragraph.
Ranger: Animal Spirit says that a Coyote Ranger who gives up his racial animal companion gains additional benefits. What additional benefits?
Rogue: You might want to mention what books the non-core Combat Style bonus feats are from.
Fleshripper: Does Tearing Strike have a cap? Make an Example references a GCD attack, wtf is that?
Dark Moon Cultist advances Hexblade abilities but technically any spellcaster can take that prestige class because of the Call Dark Companion feat. Is that on purpose?
There, feedback. :P
Anything I can do to help with the racial feats?
I usually just skim over favored class information so I missed that one.
Cleric and Psychic Archer don't have any Alternate Class Features.
I'm all for Natural Weapon and Throwing styles for the fighter. I'm not sure the best way to implement them though.
I'd say trade out the Druid's elemental wildshape for something else.
All the clarifications look much better. However I'd suggest adding the word Additionally (or some phrase meaning the same thing) to the last two paragraphs of the monk's flurry of blows.
I'm not sure how I feel about the rogue gaining a bonus feat from a Dragon magazine that most people won't have access to, though a quick google search found it immediately so it isn't too bad.
Anything more specific you want?
You still need to fix your links. :P
You still need to fix your links. :P
I know. Bit busy this weekend, however...
I'll post again when I've done that and a couple other updates we discussed.
Hooray, this isn't dead! :clap
Anything you want me to do?
The aspects of nature are kind of all over the place with power. I'm not sure how to fix that tough...
Racial sub level thread now includes the sub levels for easy reference. :smirk
Racial sub level thread now includes the sub levels for easy reference. :smirk
Hooray. :P
Here's an example of what I'm talking about for the Aspects. Look at Stage 5 gained at level 18
- +6 saves against poison and 1d8 gore attack vs. 5d6 damage, Reflex save DC 10 + 1/2 Druid level + Str
If those were the only two aspects, nobody would ever pick the first one. At 18th level poisons are nothing. I have no clue how to balance them all out though...
Congrats on getting me back on the boards, Ejo. :P
For water-based PrC, since you've got the other elements, my first inspiration draws from Nick's Avatar. Water is the element associated with healing, but it also does death ala bloodbending and chakra-blocking.
So a PrC that splits between the wonderful and horrible things that water can do sounds cool. Water to heal/focus spells/etc and Also to control others ala Dominate or possessions. Just food for thought. I definitely have to read through all the work you've done some time. :D
I knew it was 15d6, that was a typo. :P
EjoThims:
I buffed all the level 5 Aspects of Nature, and that one specifically I made much better. Buffed most of the 4s, and some of the 3s.
5s should now be between stage 1 AoE and stage 2 in power. Are they appropriate? Are the AoEs balanced?
Any suggestions for the missing ones?
And wow, I'm sorry... I hit modify instead of quote. :( :???
:lmao You make me look schizophrenic.
I'll give them a look.
Edit: Things look much better. I don't know how balanced they are but nothing looks horrible.
Do you want the temp HP to Stack? Or otherwise grow more than just 1? You might change the mechanic to just grant temp HP, which can solve that hurdle, and bring it down in power a bit. If you don't want to bring it down in power, just say that any extra beyond what you normally can have is counted as temp HP. "Any hit points beyond your maximum are received as temporary hit point, which disappear after one hour." Something like that.
Or, if you want it to be actual healing, make it just be "Heals you for (whatever healing rate you use), and any HP beyond what you normally have is temporary HP that lasts (however long you want it to last)."
but I couldn't tell which fighter feats are new.
I also couldn't tell which rage is new, it has been awhile. Fueled by Rage and Extra Rage have some overlap.
Remind me to talk to you about your Vow of Poverty sometime.
Close Quarters Shot has an extra word "to the damage you deal with." in the first sentence, you should drop that "with". I'm also worried that it might end up being weaker than the others, especially since it doesn't work with all ranged weapons.
Deep Vigor is clumsily worded, and I'm not sure how to fix it. Maybe get rid of the whole thing and replace with: "You heal an additional HP for each consecutive round you have been in Combat Vigor."
I'm going to echo the issue with Extra Rage and Fueled by Rage. I think you might need to find a new thing for Fueled by Rage, or get rid of Extra Rage. I don't really know why you need it anyways, since Rage is /encounter.
Mage Eater is probably not powerful enough, I'd mkae it straight 1 HP/class level.
I think the Extra Affinity feats need to do a bit more. Make them scale, so that taking them gets you one of each level, and as you gain access to new levels you get a new affinity. So take them early on, and you'll end up with two extra of each affinity at each affinity level. That might be worth three feats.
Oh jeeze, I hate that (crossbow strength bonus). It just makes no sense! But, balance is balance, so it must be.
On the Vigor: I think it needs a touch more expansion, but I think right now it's all right. The feat might not be too hot though, unless it's a prereq for something better.
On Affinity: I know we talked about this before, I just don't know. It just seems weak to me, since those bonuses are so tiny. It seems like a ton of feat investment for such a small bonus.
Hey Ejo, if I wanted to play as one of the Verold races in a different campaign setting, what do you think the balance point would be? The Tiger or Coyote Clans would be absolutely perfect for a Nullblade (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4740.0)...
I got Coyote approved for my nullblade -- it's actually hilarious, he's going to be a pretend druid (animal companion, "wild shape" into a coyote, and a maneuver which lets me entangle). Lol.
I could use some Coyote-specific feats :D
Kinda like a reserve feat? That could be cool...
Hey Ejo, what about a feat to let their dog be a riding dog or some other means of boosting it? You could also say that the companion is a coyote and to use the stats for a dog...
EDIT: By the way, here's the character (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6600.0;msg=99791) if you're interested.
I'm currently statting up a character using your barbarian so I should be able to give you some more feedback on it later on.
Well, just because something is a "riding dog" doesn't mean that it can be ridden. It's just a particular breed of dog.Hey Ejo, what about a feat to let their dog be a riding dog or some other means of boosting it? You could also say that the companion is a coyote and to use the stats for a dog...
I've been pondering this, actually... But I'm not sure how awkward it would be to allow a medium creature to ride a medium creature, especially when I'm not sure how to balance the riding dog versus the standard...
The standard dog was chosen because it is strictly inferior to a wolf that a normal Druid gets, but not by a margin that would matter in the long run. The riding dog is superior to the wolf by the same margin, and while the difference between it and the normal dog stands out a bit more, I'm not sure if it's enough to warrant a penalty to the effective Druid level or the cost of the feat is enough of an offset.Well, if you change the fluff to a "coyote", then you can upgrade to a wolf and still call it a "coyote", just a bigger more muscley-armed one. ;) Given that one could just get a wolf or riding dog with Wild Cohort, I would say the feat penalty is enough.
I was also considering, as a follow up feat, giving the ability to ride them and allowing it to count as special mount or familiar, making it an alternate entry into super mount type characters. This would be, to those that could make use of it, quite strong imo for a single feat, but I don't know if I would want to reign in the power of the first feat to alleviate this...Well, you don't need a feat to ride an animal companion, as long as it's big enough. However, you could make a feat that lets it count as either a special mount or a familiar instead of an AC... I dunno if that would be worth it, though. Basically it would let you trade away the original class feature and still keep one. And the supermountness is still not useful since as a Coyote you can't take levels in Halfling Outrider ;)
I'm thinking too much. :???Always a problem... lol.
Well, I think the templates in general are supposed to be mundane. You don't need an item creation feat for it, so I think that decides it.EDIT: By the way, here's the character (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6600.0;msg=99791) if you're interested.
Very interested, and quite like how you adapted it to fit into a general setting. I also like how you summarized all the character specific pieces of the general information.
As the creator of the nullcraft template, do you feel that property counts as mundane or magical in nature for being incorporated into the animal form?
Given that one could just get a wolf or riding dog with Wild Cohort, I would say the feat penalty is enough.
Well, you don't need a feat to ride an animal companion, as long as it's big enough. However, you could make a feat that lets it count as either a special mount or a familiar instead of an AC... I dunno if that would be worth it, though. Basically it would let you trade away the original class feature and still keep one. And the supermountness is still not useful since as a Coyote you can't take levels in Halfling Outrider ;)
Holy crap, I just read this over and I used the word "Well" way too much.
While I'm looking at it, it's always annoyed me that barbarians could stop raging and then instantly die...
There is, but I don't know how much you like it. Just say something like, "The HP gained from the con boost is treated as temporary hit points and thus is reduced first when the barbarian takes damage. This temp hp is lost once the rage ends."
There is, but I don't know how much you like it. Just say something like, "The HP gained from the con boost is treated as temporary hit points and thus is reduced first when the barbarian takes damage. This temp hp is lost once the rage ends."
That could fix it at lower levels or for the normal barbarian (since it's effectively removing the hp from con), but the frenzied berserker or anything else which uses deathless frenzy still will die at the end of the rage.
There is, but I don't know how much you like it. Just say something like, "The HP gained from the con boost is treated as temporary hit points and thus is reduced first when the barbarian takes damage. This temp hp is lost once the rage ends."
That could fix it at lower levels or for the normal barbarian (since it's effectively removing the hp from con), but the frenzied berserker or anything else which uses deathless frenzy still will die at the end of the rage.
I agree with dman, dying from deathless frenzy is different from dying because your max hp went down because you lost ten points of Con (which your barbarian can do).
It should say "thus are removed first", but it looks good. :thumb
It should say "thus are removed first", but it looks good. :thumb
Fixed. :D
Also, I included all the new feats in the summary post under the summary thread.
It should say "thus are removed first", but it looks good. :thumb
Fixed. :D
Also, I included all the new feats in the summary post under the summary thread.
Hooray for organization! :D
It's flavorful, I don't know how balanced it is but I like it. :D
I just realized something.
You should give Barbarians Spot as a class skill. They have Listen, but not Spot.
Don't have time for any real analysis, but Tiger Spirit Shaman has level 2 listed twice.
Looks flavorful and interesting. You have Wis listed twice for the DC calculations, is that intentional?
I like the flavor of those abilities, really cool.
By the way, did you change the Archivist in any way for Verold?
your table doesn't match your abilities
I think you might want to sub the abilities that they gain at those levels.
Have Clan Knowledge scale as Lore Mastery did, and grant the same bonus, but it can only be applied to one of the knowledges that Clan Knowledge would apply to.
What did you base racial LA on?
Also you have a lot of stuff, where do i begin? You focused on feats or prc's or racial levels currently?
Coyote first.
Is Handle Undead a new skill? Because I'm not familiar with it. I'm assuming it's just a new skill that I don't know about...so cool, I think this might be a required addition to DN vanilla, not just the sub levels.
Stitched Flesh Familiar seems to be...powerful...you don't give anything up, you just alter the familiar? Gain feats? I mean, it is just a familiar (most powerful class ability, you know), but still. Eh, it's probably fine.
Lost Pack seems to be really powerful...You don't give anything up, but all undead animals gain an additional HD? And no, you don't give up the familiar, remember. You moved the familiar to an earlier spot.
hadow Growth....wow....again, really powerful. But maybe confusing. Okay, so say you use negative Energy Burst. Do you use Charnal Touch to roll for the duration? Or something else? Maybe simplify it bay saying it lasts for a number of rounds equal to your class level.
This one is less inspired than the Raven Archivist....Also, all power questions fly out the window if you intended it to be more powerful than the vanilla DN. But you might want to change the vanilla one, and then add in true substitute abilities, rather than just add some.
The first ability needs to change. I don't even know what the last sentence is trying to say.
For the power, it seems to be REALLY powerful. I'd definitely take this over a non Tiger paladin. Effectively, you are granting the level 7 detection ability at this level. And they are protected by a non-magical avoid detection spell, because they don't give off any aura (and every aura) for alignment. I think make it take a swift action to change your effective alignment. The third ability would work best with this change, as well.
The second ability should be made more clear that it's an aura Tiger paladins can choose, not a new ability. Also, you should probably add a third ability. I don't know what, but most racial subs have three modified levels.
WHich races have the least feats/material?
wait, it's 1d8+1/4 levels.
We firing this back up Ejo?
OMG... Time to write with? What is this, I don't even...
For the raven poison feat, I'm thinking a more general allowing them to apply their Tireless Research to Craft (alchemy) checks and a special note that it also applies to Craft (Poison) if you use the separate rules. But I'm not sure that alone is worth a feat. Maybe a numeric boost as well?
Though looking at the racial, I should probably specify it applies to the magical crafting feats as well, since it was intended to
And I'm gonna write up fluff for the Raven Archivist and Coyote DN and move them and Tiger Paladin to finished unless anyone has more suggestions for them?
Eye Peck: Their racial description says they have a beak in hybrid form, perhaps a beak attack could be a feat for raven warriors, Mebbe a poison beak...
Craft Poison: Turning necromantic spells like Poison into potions (especially higher level spells that wouldn't normally be potions).
Also, I'm considering changing Dark Companion...
I'm also thinking that I either want to make the Coyote Ranger sub levels have multiple companions, like the Beastmaster, or drop it in place of Wilderness Rogue sub that adds a companion to recreate the PHB Ranger. Thoughts?
Enhanced Pack: Are these allies required to be in a certain range? Is there a theoretical upper limit on the bonus?
Re: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10272.msg170444#msg170444
Okay, so it starts off with the SRD Druid, but with poor BAB, good Ref saves (thus all good saves), 1/2 level for animal companion (thus giving it stats comparable to a ~1/2 level SNA summon), no Wild Shape, and a variety of minor statistical bonuses in Wild Shape's place. That'll certainly tone it down a notch.
Are there any other systemic changes you've made that are not explicitly stated in the class that should be taken into account? I'm assuming that the HD is still d8 and the skills are still the same.
Druid Ref and Will saves don't increase at level 20 for some reason.
Animal Companion needs a (minimum 1st level) clause or something in there so you don't have an undefined effect (0th-level effective Druid level at level 1).
A few typos here and there. Things like "affects" instead of "effects" and +X to speed (meaningless without the units, which are presumably supposed to be feet).
Putting the Aspects of Nature in a bulleted list so they don't just run into each other
I haven't looked at the elemental aspects.
1) They're nowhere near complete. You don't even have any for the stage 3 aspects.
It's like if a Rogue's Trap Sense suddenly started letting the Rogue make traps of high-level spells freely in combat at level 18-20.
I haven't looked at the elemental aspects.
1) They're nowhere near complete. You don't even have any for the stage 3 aspects.
There are no Stage 3 Elements.
At 20th the Druid chooses one Aspect from the Stage 3 listOld text from a previous version?
As well, for the 'out of whack' boost in power. Remember that it's not only a level difference. Stage 5 AoN and Stage 2 AoE you only get to choose two of (unless you spend feats), versus the 4 stage 1-3 AoN and 3 stage 4 AoN and 1 AoE.
The increase in power relative to the last stage as you enter each new stage is intended. What I need help with is seeing if the numbers involved actually support the type of steps between each. And filling out the AoEs a bit more.
There is meant to be a big jump between 4 and 5. But are the relative jumps between the different possible options the same? or at least similar?
Same with AoEs versus early stage AoNs.It's like if a Rogue's Trap Sense suddenly started letting the Rogue make traps of high-level spells freely in combat at level 18-20.
If there had been a move somewhere around 10-15 towards making traps at all and then making magic traps, I would actually expect that. Though I would expect to see only DD and trap themed spells, and probably no more than 7th (8th if it's weak) level spells.
But the thematic progression here is the same as the base Druid, but in addition to power of the animal it's also the degree of the change, finishing off with 'suddenly elementals,' just as the base Druid. Which I kept because, to me, it helps clarify that the Druid is not actually becoming like animals, but rather simply closer to nature as an all encompassing whole, including the elements that compose it's foundations.
QuoteAt 20th the Druid chooses one Aspect from the Stage 3 listOld text from a previous version?
Verold Druid Aspects go from little of note (stage 1-4) to something quite serious (stage 5, elementals) both suddenly and right at the end of the class.
Verold Druid Aspects go from little of note (stage 1-4) to something quite serious (stage 5, elementals) both suddenly and right at the end of the class.
I've already explained that said progression was intended.
Do you think the numbers involved great too large a disparity? If so, which numbers on which abilities?
Are some of the abilities themselves a larger jump than others? Which?
I cannot possibly refine this further in regard to your critiques unless you are vastly more specific.
Additionally, having taken a quick look some of the other Verold classes, I see that the power level of most classes is sufficiently different from the norm that I cannot properly evaluate them in their context.
The first thing that strikes me is that the text for Aspect of Nature is different from the table; the table has stage one at 3-6 (not 4-7), stage two at 6-9 (not 7-10), stage three at 9-12 (not 10-13), stage 4 at 13, 15, and 17 (not 13-15), and stage five at 18 and 20 (not 15-17).
Stage Two Nature: Do you need to specify +5 feet for the legs of the deer one, or is just +5 customary?
Stage Three Nature: How long does it take to spin a spider's web?
Is it necessary to state which natural weapons are primary (and get full strength) and which are secondary, or is that inherent in their type?
Stage Four Nature: What is the effect of the wolverine's rage if the rage ability the Druid already has comes from a template, spell, item, or other source that does not specify an effective class level for the rage?
Stage Five Nature: When curled up like a hedgehog, must the Druid take the Full Defense action each turn, unless they choose to uncurl? Or is this a "free"(-action) +10 AC and 5d6 retaliation for not being able to move?
Stage One Elements: Wrapped in Fire, and its electric and negative-energy counterparts, seem powerful (at least in comparison to the rest). They deal 6d6 damage (no save), plus 3d6 (at least) and action denial from fire, and the electric or negative-energy counterparts don't have a phrase preventing the Druid from walking back and forth, crossing the 10' line to deal 6d6 damage multiple times. Additionally, does the Acid-breath one count as a breath weapon?
Stage Two Elements: Do the movement-speed granting Drifts overwrite your speed (such as the Nature-aspect fly speed, or a racial Swim speed), or use the faster speed? (Again, this is a question I feel that more experienced people would know, but it's unclear to me.)
Also, the healing-from-damage by absorbing elements one seems to they have very high heal-to-damage ratios; even making half of your save means that you'll gain the full spell's value in HP. (Taking half, and healing 1.5, means that you heal the full damage of the spell, despite only making your save for "half" damage.) From memory, I feel like I've seen that kind of healing at three damage = one healing, but I'm not sure.
Druidic Avenger: I understand how it seems to work, though by giving Druid rage equal to a Barbarian of its level (even without Mighty/ Greater Rage), I feel that it makes the Barbarian superfluous; there aren't that many other substantial features the Barbarian gets, other than Rage.
Coyote Druid Racial Substitutions: Fits, although I feel that the substitution levels don't make any sense for an Avenger, which bugs me because Avengers get special bonuses for being a Coyote and giving up the racial Dog companion.
Also, the level-9 row on the table is missing the Stage 3 Aspect.
Elemental Affinity: This scares me, because of the damage problems it could cause, thanks to the auto-damaging Elemental Drifts. However, it's only available at level 18 (you gain Aspect of Elements at level 16), so that reassures me... a little.
Affinity Master: Again, damage. Scary. However, there's no way to gain this feat without extra bonus feats, or going Epic. This is thanks to the fact that Elemental Affinity can only be taken at level 18, and you don't get another feat normally until level 21, which is Epic. And honestly, there are better things for Epic feats.
Share Aspects: oh god the damage[/i]. If you, say, sell your soul (Pact Certain) at level 18 (shortly after getting Elemental Affinity) to get Affinity Master and picked up Share Aspects earlier, you've got (6d6 (fire) + 12d6 (electricity) + 12d6 (negative))*2= 60d6 of damage every time you and your Animal Companion get close to something. No save. Oh, and if you have the movement to back up and then back into the 10' range? Another 48d6. Per 10' of extra movement you have. This... scares me.
I'd like to provide some critique here, but I'm a little overwhelmed by the size of this, and not really sure where to start. Do you need more on the Druid, or is there something else you'd like me to look at the most?
Also, why did you remove the AC bonus from Monks? I'm assuming that Unarmed Strike, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, and other abilities that appear on the table but not in the text work normally, but the AC bonus doesn't appear at all. Also, Fast Movement should say a +10-foot, not +10 bonus.
Battle Ecstasy provides no benefit with respect to DR if your highest DR is one your enemy can bypass (ex: DR/magic, which usually comes in larger quantities because its easier to bypass). In such respects, you'd be better off without that type of DR at all than with it. The +2 bonus should instead be to all DR you have (remember, multiple types of DR don't stack, so there's no double dipping here) and give DR 2/- in all cases, even if you already have DR. Ditto for Resilient Rage.
Mountain Rage should increase your size by 1 category, rather than explicitly setting your size to Large. Also, is the -2 penalty to attack and AC supposed to be in addition to the normal size penalties for being larger? It's unclear if it's that or it's supposed to replace the normal -1 penalty for Large size.
Raging Strength's calm effect needs a time limit (probably within 1 round or something). As-is, nothing is stopping you from raging outside an encounter and immediately ending it to add a massive bonus to your first attack.
Swift Rage's calm effect produces a ridiculous amount of attacks. Unless you're attacking with tickles, I have trouble seeing 5+Con mod extra attacks not instagibbing anything you focus on. Also, if you calm out of a Swift Rage, the wording seems to indicate that you get the attacks immediately, rather than having to make them as part of a full attack like Haste and similar effects. I don't think that's intended.
Is Battle Ecstasy's explosive calm effect supposed to make them miss everyone? The fluff seems to imply that they should only miss attacks against you, not attacks made from and towards locations well outside your reach.
Mountain Rage's explosive calm effect is a no save, just lose effect. Your enemies will be unable to act for about three times as long as it usually takes to win against enemies who do fight back.
BAB is off at level 16.
Skills: A Barbarian adds Knowledge (Nature) and Spot Barbarian list of skills.
Should Raging Strength have a minimum of 1? Also, is the bonus just to the attack roll, or to damage as well?
put Swift Rage with all of the other rage types, especially since you give a Calm for Swift Rage before you actually say what it is.
For Mountain Rage is there a save?
In the second round of you raging all up in peoples' grills
4 full rounds' worth of actions before the end of your current turn... Also, if you take the Fueled by Rage feat a couple times, you could do it again in the same round.
What about SLAs?[/spoiler]
They are (usually) affected by things that affect spells, are they not? Added clarification, if for nothing else than to separate SUs as not counting.Despite the seemingly large number of wording suggestions, overall, I like it!
All good... I am a horrible editor of my own ideas, as I think I've said before. ;)
And thank you both. :D
Would either of you happen to have insights on the various sub/alts as well?
Battle Ecstasy: A 3rd level Barbarian can choose to channel his rage into a battle ecstasy, giving him a +4 bonus to Dex and Con. Additionally, all forms of DR he currently possesses increase by 2, and he gains DR 2/-Also, it appears that there's now a broken tag ([/li]?) after the description of this.and a +2 bonus to all forms of DR he possesses.
I thought you'd like it. :DIn the second round of you raging all up in peoples' grills
Best way to phrase that evar.
Even at 1/6, without too much work you could get 3 rounds, and with more work, you could still get 4. You might want to just set a limit of 1 or 2 rounds.4 full rounds' worth of actions before the end of your current turn... Also, if you take the Fueled by Rage feat a couple times, you could do it again in the same round.
Again, obviously the ratio is off. Another example of needing eyes on the numbers. ;)
But I also had not considered how that feat would interact. Nerfed the ratio to 1/6 and going to clarify the feat, noting that you can't use the same Calm twice in one round. So this limits you, even if you wanted to burn a TURN of rages, to one Sudden Calm and one Explosive Calm per round. Though each could still be giving 3 different benefits pre-epic.
Would either of you happen to have insights on the various sub/alts as well?Maaaaybe...
Wolf: You gain insight into the loyal pack of the wolves. Starting at 1st level whenever you flank an opponent, you and all allies who also flank the same opponent gain an additional +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls against that opponent. Every level that your damage reduction would have gone up, you instead gain a “flanking point.” Each flanking point is good for an additional +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls, and as a free action can be divided as you see fit amongst any allies flanking the same target as you, including yourself.So, it is not the case that everyone gets the accumulated boni, but instead the total is broken up however you choose between all flanking allies? If that's the case, then the wording needs some work. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the best way to say it, because, as a free action, you could theoretically shift it all to the person attacking, then spend another free action to shift it all back to yourself, attack, and then shift it over to a 3rd flanker, etc. In any case, I don't think it's broken if all flankers get the bonus all the time anyway, so I'd probably just take out the flanking point stuff. Just say something like this:
Wolf: You gain insight into the loyal pack of the wolves. Starting at 1st level whenever you flank an opponent, you and all allies who also flank the same opponent gain an additional +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls against that opponent. Every level that your damage reduction would have gone up, instead this bonus increases by 1.Much simpler, much cleaner, and not broken (as far as I can tell).you instead gain a “flanking point.” Each flanking point is good for an additional +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls, and as a free action can be divided as you see fit amongst any allies flanking the same target as you, including yourself.
It just occurred to me that the duration of your rage isn't actually defined until you end your turn. What happens, then, if you calm out of a rage for a duration-dependent effect on the turn you start the rage, before the duration is set?
Also, it appears that there's now a broken tag ([/li]?) after the description of this.
Even at 1/6, without too much work you could get 3 rounds, and with more work, you could still get 4. You might want to just set a limit of 1 or 2 rounds.
So, it is not the case that everyone gets the accumulated boni, but instead the total is broken up however you choose between all flanking allies?
If that's the case, then the wording needs some work. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the best way to say it, because, as a free action, you could theoretically shift it all to the person attacking, then spend another free action to shift it all back to yourself, attack, and then shift it over to a 3rd flanker, etc.
In any case, I don't think it's broken if all flankers get the bonus all the time anyway, so I'd probably just take out the flanking point stuff.
Just say something like this:QuoteWolf: You gain insight into the loyal pack of the wolves. Starting at 1st level whenever you flank an opponent, you and all allies who also flank the same opponent gain an additional +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls against that opponent. Every level that your damage reduction would have gone up, instead this bonus increases by 1.Much simpler, much cleaner, and not broken (as far as I can tell).you instead gain a “flanking point.” Each flanking point is good for an additional +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls, and as a free action can be divided as you see fit amongst any allies flanking the same target as you, including yourself.
Also, is it just me, or should you be taking every opportunity possible to replace "Bear Barbarian" with "Barbearian"? :hide Just me? Okay.
If you do this, you have to make sure you have a minimum. You can't just say "up to 10 full rounds," because then you could wait until you had 1 round left, and then sacrifice it to get a free full round action. ...Actually, I'm not sure you need to do that. It may not be a problem, because no encounter is ever going to last that long, so you're pretty much never going to use all the rounds anyway.Even at 1/6, without too much work you could get 3 rounds, and with more work, you could still get 4. You might want to just set a limit of 1 or 2 rounds.
Hrmmm... Thinking about it... With a feat involved, you could, essentially, imitate time stop, each encounter, with a consistent duration.
What do you think about something closer to one extra round, if you give up 10 full rounds, 2 rounds, and if you give up 20, 3 rounds? Essentially all the way down to 1/10, but with a cap still.
I'd just do the +8 for all flankers. It's not OP, and it's way simpler. You might potentially have more flankers at a higher level, from facing larger creatures (the Tarrasque?), but I don't think those creatures are gonna care about the extra +8 too much.So, it is not the case that everyone gets the accumulated boni, but instead the total is broken up however you choose between all flanking allies?
Yea. All flankers gain +3 instead of +2, and you gain up to 5 flanking points to distribute as well.If that's the case, then the wording needs some work. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of the best way to say it, because, as a free action, you could theoretically shift it all to the person attacking, then spend another free action to shift it all back to yourself, attack, and then shift it over to a 3rd flanker, etc.
A 1/rnd limit would solve that problem.In any case, I don't think it's broken if all flankers get the bonus all the time anyway, so I'd probably just take out the flanking point stuff.
Just say something like this:QuoteWolf: You gain insight into the loyal pack of the wolves. Starting at 1st level whenever you flank an opponent, you and all allies who also flank the same opponent gain an additional +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls against that opponent. Every level that your damage reduction would have gone up, instead this bonus increases by 1.Much simpler, much cleaner, and not broken (as far as I can tell).you instead gain a “flanking point.” Each flanking point is good for an additional +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls, and as a free action can be divided as you see fit amongst any allies flanking the same target as you, including yourself.
The bonus then would be +8 for all flankers. Hrmmm... But high number of flankers isn't that common, especially at 20 where they'd be cranked that high...
Good. I'm glad it isn't just me. :PAlso, is it just me, or should you be taking every opportunity possible to replace "Bear Barbarian" with "Barbearian"? :hide Just me? Okay.No, not at all... And I totally do any other time I'm talking about them. :D
I'd just do the +8 for all flankers. It's not OP, and it's way simpler. You might potentially have more flankers at a higher level, from facing larger creatures (the Tarrasque?), but I don't think those creatures are gonna care about the extra +8 too much.
[/quote]QuoteGood. I'm glad it isn't just me. :PAlso, is it just me, or should you be taking every opportunity possible to replace "Bear Barbarian" with "Barbearian"? :hide Just me? Okay.No, not at all... And I totally do any other time I'm talking about them. :D
Boz even used it as the tagline in the Homebrew Compendium :lmaoI forgot about that. :lol
It just occurred to me that the duration of your rage isn't actually defined until you end your turn. What happens, then, if you calm out of a rage for a duration-dependent effect on the turn you start the rage, before the duration is set?
A very good point. I had not considered that issue.
IT would, I suppose, be quiet a nerf to single round rage/calm novaing to have it be retroactively decided based on being back to your normal Con score at the end of the round, which I may want to keep.
But it would also be a bit too complex, especially if there were any other buffs or debuffs dropped in there.
But the point of it was to lock them in to a set duration after gaining their rage boost, instead of it changing in response to other buffs/debuffs.
Sadly, I'm not sure of a better way to phrase it. Perhaps something like:
"...plus a number of extra rounds equal to the Barbarian's Con mod immediately after activating the rage (adding more Con boosts or suffering a penalty after that does not change the rage's duration)..."
Another thought for consideration. Perhaps give two forms of rage at level 1 (an offensive and a defensive version, like Raging Strength + Battle Ecstasy) so, even at the beginning, you get the feel and options of having different types of rages. You can move up the remaining rages by 2 levels apiece, thus having a lesser, baseline Swift Rage come before Greater Rage, which also lets you show an improvement to Swift Rage with Greater Rage (instead of it being left out). This, in turn, makes it look better (you don't have one rage type mysteriously left out of Greater Rage), and you can, potentially, introduce ACFs later on that trade away Greater Rage without messing up the balance between the different rage types.
"A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier", straight from the SRD Barbarian. Change the 3 to a 5 (and maybe the "newly improved" to "possibly improved" as not all rages boost Constitution) and you're done.
Are SLAs usable while in Animal Form? (I'm thinking about making a Fox Naturalist.)
Unfortunately, the DM felt that Fox was a little too powerful for his liking, so I had to go with something else. :( (Understandable.)
I just wanted to point out in the heavy weapon fighter that Devastating Attack and Crushing blows literally get in the way of each other. Both are geared towards dealing damage, and both use the same resources to get that damage (extra attacks in a round). Basically, they are fully redundant because a smart player will just use the one that gets you more damage every time.
Hey Ego, wanted to drop in and say hi after all the years. Glad to see Verold is still going strong :)
Raven Factotum looks like its going in an interesting direction.
Well there's a blast from the past!
I've turned into the unofficial homebrew reviewer, I assume that google docs is where you want me to look at things?
Well there's a blast from the past!
I've turned into the unofficial homebrew reviewer, I assume that google docs is where you want me to look at things?
We can make you the official homebrew reviewer... :P
Well there's a blast from the past!
I've turned into the unofficial homebrew reviewer, I assume that google docs is where you want me to look at things?
There is, you have to grant commenting permissions though.
Or I could just comment here. :P
There is, you have to grant commenting permissions though.
Or I could just comment here. :P
;)
Also, totally saw you looking through Classes while I was playing around with new Warlock Pact ideas :lol
I opened a random one to see if I could comment. :P
What do you want me to start with?
I'll just start over then, it wouldn't be the first time I've done that with someone's homebrew.
So, where should I start? :P
The Clans
I assume that these races are meant to be balanced against each other and not against normal D&D races?
Also, you've got a lot of "gain the effects of a feat". Why not just grant bonus feats?
- Why not just give them the Endurance feat and make a note that they can also sleep in heavy armor?
- The boar Fighter 2 sub level feels a little strong.
- Boar Ardent has one mantle with three lists. Are they a single mantle or are they actually three mantles?
Fox Sorcerer, why not grant addition class skills at first level?
Ferret
- Psionic Artificer makes me go bleh. You're using the Complete Psionics nerf.
Raven
- Dedicated research, why such a massive bonus?
- Raven Wizard, lingering spell is extremely powerful at low levels. Having spells at first level last 7 rounds instead of 1 is a gamechanger.
Crane
- The crane racial features feel more powerful in comparison to everyone else. Devotion feats + All In Good Order (which would effect spells like Dictum and Holy Word) + Zeal is too much.
Your stat adjustments are all over the place. Not just for the base races (we've got everything from bonuses/penalties evening out to -2 total, +2 total, +4 total, and +6 for the Crane), but also with the animal and hybrid forms.
I feel like you could use some input from other people so you can know I'm not being a crazy person. I'll see if I can grab a person or two.
With the feats, I meant things like the Fox racial ability of "Spell Focus: Any illusion a Fox casts has a +2 to the DC to resist or overcome." Why not just say that the Fox gains Spell Focus: Illusion as a bonus feat?
Boar Fighter 2 - this is definitely a case of "most melee boars will be fighters" rather than "most fighters will be boars". Strength bonus is one of the main early features of the Barbarian, why be a barbarian when you can get the strength bonus and all the fighter stuff at the same time? (I know that you overhauled both classes but I'm not motivated enough to go look at classes when we're still dealing with races :P)
Boar Ardent - I barely know anything about the ardent so I can't comment on the balance of this, I was just curious.
by the time the fox gains those class skills he'll either never put points into them or will have the make the hard decision to stop focusing on other skills so they can dump extra points into the new skills to max out ranks so they're not worthless.
On Ferret Psionic Artificer, the Ectopic Form feat means that you're using the Complete Psionic nerf. I say bleh. That's not a balance nitpick, just bleh.
Crane: It's not the choice between the devotion feats. Let me put it this way, we just discussed Raven. Ravens get: minor skill bonuses, Knowledge bonuses, minor spell like abilities, and crafting bonuses. Cranes get: moderate skill bonuses, more skill bonuses, treat evil=chaos for spells, bonus feats, and a second save against mind affecting spells. Cranes get more useful racial features than any other race. Cranes need to be toned down.
When I review things I don't write about the stuff that I don't have an issue with.
Off the top of my head, why would I want to be a Fox Favored Soul when I could be a Crane? The stats are better, the racial abilities are way better. Tiger Paladin vs Crane? Crane.
I know I'm harping on the crane, it's just the biggest offender to me.
Hey, I'd forgotten about this.
This (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Aw9pP4aMI3bo6RnJ-fnN644GH3fgbNjKEzJbTrhduU/edit) is the up-to-date link, right?
- Wolf are outliers with their +1 LA, although if I remember correctly they were the special snowflake ones.
- Coyote is another oddity as the only non-wolf race to not have any stat penalties.
- Python seems strange to have favored class monk with its Wisdom penalty.
- Not a problem, just an oddity, that only one core class is missing among favored classes, the cleric, and only one non-core class shows up, the hexblade.
Looks like the stat table doesn't actually match up to the actual stat adjustments the descriptions give. Boar has +4 Con, -4 Wis, -2 Cha, not +4 Con, -2 Int/Wis/Cha. Haven't gone through them all yet.
Okay, with animal and hybrid forms, there are tons of stat adjustments flying around. Any chance you could provide a table summarizing all of it?
A quick peek at classes says you're using modified versions of every class. At this point you've gotten rid of pretty much every standard I'm familiar with that I could quickly compare things against. In order to evaluate the balance of anything in this context, I'd have to go through everything to get a sense of the actual context as a whole.
In short, it's more work than I'm willing to put in. Sorry.
I'm not sure what the fix is for the Fox Sorcerer skill points thing right now
Zeal is the racial feature I'd drop.
Let me know when you're done fiddling with the races, I know I'm still going to want to see the gap between then shortened when you're done. :p
Like I said, let me know when you're done fiddling and I'll do a more comprehensive comparison. :p
Well let me know when you want me to work some more on Verold.
Well let me know when you want me to work some more on Verold.
Whenever you have the time and patience :love ;) :love ;) :love ;) :love
Well let me know when you want me to work some more on Verold.
Whenever you have the time and patience :love ;) :love ;) :love ;) :love
I assumed from your last post that you didn't want to work on the races anymore. :???
- Wolf has Dominance listed in Hybrid form when it's a base racial trait which means it already applies to all forms.
- Why not just give Bears the Improved Grapple feat?
- Speaking of Ferret, give Ferret Scent. It gains that as an animal, why not have it as a base racial trait?
- Viper having a tiny animal form is an outlier, I'm not sure how I feel about it.
- Why do Bear hybrids get 15 foot reach? Reach from Large isn't enough??
- Viper "Breath Weapon" isn't a breath weapon and so should be renamed to something like "Spit Poison".
- I think that Rat should be size Small like Ferret is all the way down. Don't adjust anything with the size change, just change the size.
- Raven hybrid is larger than the base race, you can bump its land speed up to 30' to match Crane.
- Why do hybrid bears lose their bite?
- Why is there no progression for the boar natural weapon from animal to hybrid?
- Why do some animals get a natural armor progression and others don't? We'll fix that, with a progression of +2 because that's what most of them have.
Let's Standardize your skill bonuses.
Holy crap, we're so close to a total of +2 for all races for stats!
On standardizing animal and hybrid form stats: we're going to do this.
Let me know if you'd like my spreadsheet.
Oh hey, it helps to hit "Post." No wonder there weren't any more responses. :lol
- Wolf has Dominance listed in Hybrid form when it's a base racial trait which means it already applies to all forms.
Its better in Hybrid Form. Probably should throw an Improved on there.
- Why not just give Bears the Improved Grapple feat?
Same as others, I was paranoid about Dark Chaos Feat Shuffling. Was silly.
- Speaking of Ferret, give Ferret Scent. It gains that as an animal, why not have it as a base racial trait?
There was a reason for it, but I can't remember and it does seem rather silly now. Changed.
- Viper having a tiny animal form is an outlier, I'm not sure how I feel about it.
- Why do Bear hybrids get 15 foot reach? Reach from Large isn't enough??
These are actually related, as I was staggering the extreme sizes against slight/powerful build. Hybrid Bears lose Powerful Build when gaining L size, but they're still effectively a size large in different ways. Same idea with Viper, animal form becomes but loses Slight build. I think the +6 Dex was supposed to fill the role of other benefit, but its pretty much what they should have from tiny anyway, but definitely don't wanna throw them even more. :???
- Viper "Breath Weapon" isn't a breath weapon and so should be renamed to something like "Spit Poison".
- I think that Rat should be size Small like Ferret is all the way down. Don't adjust anything with the size change, just change the size.
- Raven hybrid is larger than the base race, you can bump its land speed up to 30' to match Crane.
Done, but bit leery on the Rat size. I seem to recall there was a reason I wanted them to be M. If I remember why and still think its a good idea, may change it back.
- Why do hybrid bears lose their bite?
Tiger also does, though only those two lose an attack form between them. Think Bear was to offset the reach a bit more, but Tiger not sure any more.
- Why is there no progression for the boar natural weapon from animal to hybrid?
Because 3d6 seemed kind of too high? Felt good for animal boars to have an extra strong attack though, as the only physical based clan with only one attack form in animal form.
- Why do some animals get a natural armor progression and others don't? We'll fix that, with a progression of +2 because that's what most of them have.
Literally not sure what you mean here? All animal forms have NA, and all hybrid forms have more NA than the animal form.
Let's Standardize your skill bonuses.
Holy crap, we're so close to a total of +2 for all races for stats!
On standardizing animal and hybrid form stats: we're going to do this.
I'm still super wary about moving them all all being the same total bonuses, especially across stats boosts in all forms, natural attack and armor progressions, skills, AND feats. They feel way too cookie cutter that way. Would much rather have a few having more in one category and less in others.
Let me know if you'd like my spreadsheet.
Would be very interested, yes. For some reason I just don't really think like that. Literally never even occurred to me to put one together.
But will definitely help me decide how much I want to standardize within categories or try to rotate across categories still. :D
15 foot reach feels very excessive. Goliath Barbarian goes from Powerful Build to full on Large. I think it's fine to just do that.
Rat just feels small to me. Rats aren't bigger than Ferrets. The only reason I can see is to have a sneaky race of each size category (Medium and Small).
I don't understand your mindset at all on this one. Balanced between each other does not equal cookie cutter. Right now everything feels like arbitrary numbers you made up because they sounded good.
15 foot reach feels very excessive. Goliath Barbarian goes from Powerful Build to full on Large. I think it's fine to just do that.
May have been why I threw the reach in there, to make it more extreme than that progression. Definitely adding bite back if taking away the reach.
Bit worried that will make them seem pigeonholed into NAers in hybrid form though? The reach and no bite explicitly supports being a weapon wielder over NAer. Think that concern may be why I took bite from Hybrid Tigers too?
Rat just feels small to me. Rats aren't bigger than Ferrets. The only reason I can see is to have a sneaky race of each size category (Medium and Small).
I think that may have been part of it. Perhaps with some appeal to the classic Wererats at M? :shrug S for now at least ;)
I don't understand your mindset at all on this one. Balanced between each other does not equal cookie cutter. Right now everything feels like arbitrary numbers you made up because they sounded good.
To me +2 stats, +4 skills, 2 feats to every race seems very cookie cutter, especially if they're all also getting the same total numeric boosts from their animal and hybrid forms.
I will totally acknowledge the current (and past) randomness was probably a bit extreme, but starting with the base animal stats, its quite clear that picking arbitrary numbers was exactly how those were originally designed :lol
I had tried to just round out that with racial ability and role specialization boosts; finding the middle ground is what, obviously, still eludes me.
Gonna play around with the spreadsheet back and forth for a minute and update some things (already noticing some standouts like forgetting to specify speed for hybrid bear :-\ ) and see how I feel about how where things end up there :D
I was actually thinking about you and your resistance to stat standardization last night!
Yeah, if you have an updated spreadsheet that includes all of your changes I'd love to see it. A few exceptions are fine in my opinion as long as they're obviously exceptions and not too extreme.
If it helps none of the classes are going to have so many changes that I'll make a spreadsheet for them. :lol
I can't interpret your spreadsheet. :???
No, it's more that you assigned values to things and I have no idea what's going on. :lol
We should probably get back to working on this...
Ugh, I'm falling behind. I need to remember to look at this.
So, I can't find the link to your stuff on google docs...