Author Topic: The Politics Thread v3  (Read 95630 times)

Offline Solo

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #440 on: November 17, 2016, 11:05:52 PM »
In context, do you refer to this?

Quote
Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Madam Secretary. I'd like to join my colleagues in thanking you for your service sincerely, and also appreciate the fact that you’re here testifying and glad that you’re looking in good health.

Clinton: Thank you.

Johnson: Were you fully aware in real time -- and again, I realize how big your job is and everything is erupting in the Middle East at this time -- were you fully aware of these 20 incidents that were reported in the ARB[State Department Accountability Review Board] in real time?

Clinton: I was aware of the ones that were brought to my attention. They were part of our ongoing discussion about the deteriorating threat environment in eastern Libya. We certainly were very conscious of them. I was assured by our security professionals that repairs were under way, additional security upgrades had taken place.

Johnson: Thank you. Did you see personally the cable on -- I believe it was August 12th -- specifically asking for, basically, reinforcements for the security detail that was going to be evacuating or leaving in August? Did you see that personally?

Clinton: No, sir.

Johnson: OK. When you read the ARB, it strikes me as how certain the people were that the attacks started at 9:40 Benghazi time. When was the first time you spoke to -- or have you ever spoken to -- the returnees, the evacuees? Did you personally speak to those folks?

Clinton: I‘ve spoken to one of them, but I waited until after the ARB had done its investigation because I did not want there to be anybody raising any issue that I had spoken to anyone before the ARB conducted its investigation.

Johnson: How many people were evacuated from Libya?

Clinton: Well, the numbers are a little bit hard to pin down because of our other friends --

Johnson: Approximately?

Clinton: Approximately, 25 to 30.

Johnson: Did anybody in the State Department talk to those folks very shortly afterwards?

Clinton: There was discussion going on afterwards, but once the investigation started, the FBI spoke to them before we spoke to them, and so other than our people in Tripoli -- which, I think you’re talking about Washington, right?

Johnson: The point I’m making is, a very simple phone call to these individuals, I think, would’ve ascertained immediately that there was no protest prior to this. This attack started at 9:40 p.m. Benghazi time and it was an assault. I appreciate the fact that you called it an assault. But I’m going back to then-Ambassador [Susan] Rice five days later going on the Sunday shows and, what I would say, is purposefully misleading the American public. Why wasn’t that known? And again, I appreciate the fact that the transparency of this hearing, but why weren’t we transparent to that point in time?

Clinton: Well, first of all, Senator, I would say that once the assault happened, and once we got our people rescued and out, our most immediate concern was, number one, taking care of their injuries. As I said, I still have a DS [Diplomatic Security] agent at Walter Reed seriously injured -- getting them into Frankfurt, Ramstein to get taken care of, the FBI going over immediately to start talking to them. We did not think it was appropriate for us to talk to them before the FBI conducted their interviews. And we did not -- I think this is accurate, sir -- I certainly did not know of any reports that contradicted the IC [Intelligence Community] talking points at the time that Ambassador Rice went on the TV shows. And you know I just want to say that people have accused Ambassador Rice and the administration of misleading Americans. I can say trying to be in the middle of this and understanding what was going on, nothing could be further from the truth. Was information developing? Was the situation fluid? Would we reach conclusions later that weren’t reached initially? And I appreciate the --

Johnson: But, Madame Secretary, do you disagree with me that a simple phone call to those evacuees to determine what happened wouldn’t have ascertained immediately that there was no protest? That was a piece of information that could have been easily, easily obtained?

Clinton: But, Senator, again—

Johnson: Within hours, if not days?

Clinton: Senator, you know, when you’re in these positions, the last thing you want to do is interfere with any other process going on, number one—

Johnson: I realize that’s a good excuse.

Clinton: Well, no, it’s the fact. Number two, I would recommend highly you read both what the ARB said about it and the classified ARB because, even today, there are questions being raised. Now, we have no doubt they were terrorists, they were militants, they attacked us, they killed our people. But what was going on and why they were doing what they were doing is still unknown --

Johnson: No, again, we were misled that there were supposedly protests and that something sprang out of that -- an assault sprang out of that -- and that was easily ascertained that that was not the fact, and the American people could have known that within days and they didn’t know that.

Clinton: With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided that they’d they go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, Senator. Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this, but the fact is that people were trying in real time to get to the best information. The IC has a process, I understand, going with the other committees to explain how these talking points came out. But you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backwards as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we’ll figure out what was going on in the meantime.

Johnson: OK. Thank you, Madame Secretary.
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Offline Chemus

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #441 on: November 18, 2016, 11:20:17 AM »
Yes, that's what I referred to (even though I misspelled Benghazi)

Clinton or her State Dept. rejected a request to replace a security detail that left a month prior to the attack (which she says she was unaware of), even though there had been 20 incidents reported (which she says she was partially aware of). She didn't talk to anyone who was evacuated, citing a desire not to taint the investigation, yet she, her ambassador, and Obama claimed at the time that Intel showed that it was specifically a protest over a video, prior to a completed investigation. There were no such protests, yet they destroyed the filmmaker sans evidence. When pressed repeatedly about not talking to any survivors from the embassy, and the fact that had she done so, she could not have made her claim, she said she didn't want to bother them, that the FBI was investigating, and what does the attackers motive matter now?

She claims that she was unaware; either she was not doing her job, or she was lying.

Were you really unaware of this exchange before now, Solo?
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Offline Solo

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #442 on: November 18, 2016, 09:06:59 PM »
As unaware of it as you were of that global warming article you posted earlier being junk science.
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Offline Keldar

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #443 on: November 19, 2016, 07:46:15 AM »
Yes, that's what I referred to (even though I misspelled Benghazi)

Clinton or her State Dept. rejected a request to replace a security detail that left a month prior to the attack (which she says she was unaware of), even though there had been 20 incidents reported (which she says she was partially aware of). She didn't talk to anyone who was evacuated, citing a desire not to taint the investigation, yet she, her ambassador, and Obama claimed at the time that Intel showed that it was specifically a protest over a video, prior to a completed investigation. There were no such protests, yet they destroyed the filmmaker sans evidence. When pressed repeatedly about not talking to any survivors from the embassy, and the fact that had she done so, she could not have made her claim, she said she didn't want to bother them, that the FBI was investigating, and what does the attackers motive matter now?

She claims that she was unaware; either she was not doing her job, or she was lying.

Were you really unaware of this exchange before now, Solo?
The State Department had been asking Congress for funds for additional security at all sites for ages.  The finger gets pointed squarely at Congress if anyone beyond the attackers deserve blame for Benghazi.  The place the blame should usually go.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #444 on: November 19, 2016, 02:51:12 PM »
This, however, is a poll. How did they vote? Additionally, unless you're comparing Enlisted to Officers, the spread in the poll of officers was listed as T: 26.2%, J: 31.3%, C: 31.7%, Clinton edging out Johnson. Enlisted strongly favored Trump, and disfavored Clinton. Perhaps they heard Bengazi loud and clear; 'what difference does it make now?'

I did mention poll , and I did mention their votes are being counted.
It would be a surprise if those polled were lying, given the military codes
and counting their votes is better than things used to be.
Military polls polling the military aren't known for their inaccuracy.

It's the probably the biggest outlier for Libertarians.



Benghazi?
Kevin McCarthy said it was all about getting Hillary to lose. 
Since that's been accomplished, I doubt anything else happens.
He lost his job because of a dalliance ; harkenning back to :
it matters when it matters and it doesn't when it doesn't.
(not because of accidentally telling the truth about Benghazi)

But you're in luck.
The CIA appointee is the primary dissident on the Benghazi hearings.
Now he's got the whole apparatus of the CIA as his disposable, which
obviously ought to be used, to bring down Hillary some more right?
So what happens when that doesn't happen.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #445 on: November 23, 2016, 04:42:09 PM »
This one came together in a hurry.


Computer Dudes didn't like some of the election results, and called Clinton.
She + her team, footdragged it, so the Dudes went public :
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/activists-urge-hillary-clinton-to-challenge-election-results.html

Obama says no, wants a smooth transition.
The Nates at 538 and nytimes, looked at the data.
Both found correcting for Race and Education, answered the problem.
i.e. in their opinion there's no there there.

Jill Stein has gone ahead and raised the money to legally challenge the results (see her twitter edit --- nope taken down already) .
So we may have a real recount going on.
Chances are there's nothing to it, but so little is necessary to swing things ...


Also, the current public (!) "faithless electors" count is 6 against Trump, and 2 against Clinton.
Seems to be a lot of scrubbing on this info.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 05:08:43 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline bhu

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #446 on: November 23, 2016, 04:47:17 PM »
Both Trump and his surrogates are backing off Clinton.  Conway is suggesting it was just 'campaign talk', and don says he doesn't want to hurt them because they're good people.

My facebook news feed now resembles a series of clips from Scanners.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #447 on: November 23, 2016, 05:17:31 PM »
Yeah the emails.

 :flutter Conway is real killer, wrapped up in that baby-doll  :cloud9 voice, and she knows it.
Can't wait to see what dishy sh!t comes out 5 or 10 years from now, that she (no one else) fixed.
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Nikki Haley appointed to the U.N. , smooth sailing on that one.
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Offline altpersona

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #448 on: November 23, 2016, 06:08:49 PM »
talk about a no win situation.

no recount / trump wins recount : trump wins... same/ same / armagedon

recount / clinton wins : she says nah and lets trump continue vis a vi al gore in 2000 : trump wins / see above

recount / clinton wins : she say 'hells yeah its mine cheeto boy' : clinton wins / armagedon

the crying would never end if clinton got a recount win.

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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #449 on: November 24, 2016, 04:25:20 AM »
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
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Offline dman11235

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #450 on: November 24, 2016, 04:42:59 PM »
Fun fact!  Trump's administration already is looking like it has a total net worth over 35 billion!  Champion of the common man indeed.

Wilbur Ross, a vulture capitalist, is being considered for Commerce.  He made his money buying up failing steel mills and then selling them for profit.  To off-shores companies.

His education is Betsy DeVos.  She's famous for destroying Detroit's school system.  And making tons of money off of it.  Her brother was the head of Blackwater.  She's in favor of spending public money on private schools.  And tangentially segregation.

EDIT: Also, this.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 11:20:07 AM by dman11235 »
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Offline Keldar

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #451 on: November 28, 2016, 01:37:21 PM »
talk about a no win situation.

no recount / trump wins recount : trump wins... same/ same / armagedon

recount / clinton wins : she says nah and lets trump continue vis a vi al gore in 2000 : trump wins / see above

recount / clinton wins : she say 'hells yeah its mine cheeto boy' : clinton wins / armagedon

the crying would never end if clinton got a recount win.
Which just goes to show you how clueless Trump is.  He's whined on Twitter about it, when he should be funding it.  Which would be a complete win for him.  Even if he lost the recount, then he'd still be the hero that put an honest election before winning.  Which is probably a bigger thing than being #45.  And would give a lifetime of bragging without all the work of being President Cat Herder.  And if he wins the recount, he gets both prizes.  But, too late!  Whiny baby has tweeted.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #452 on: November 30, 2016, 05:00:50 PM »
Munchkin for Treasury.  Munchkin ?

Mnuchin ... was involved with Avatar and X-men,
so I suppose I have (!) to like him on that alone.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #453 on: December 05, 2016, 03:49:45 PM »
Bush + Rubio + Cruz campaign dudes beyotch loudly at CNN's head, slightly nsfw language (oh mah delicate constitution).
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/1/13803036/gop-boo-cnn-jeff-zucker-defense-trump-harvard

Tyndall does their usual "Covering the Coverers" data.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/10/26/study-confirms-network-evening-newscasts-have-abandoned-policy-coverage-2016-campaign/214120
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 04:01:14 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline ketaro

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #454 on: December 05, 2016, 07:51:23 PM »
Anyone else see Trump make Ben Carson his Head of Urban Development? As if believing that guy knows anything about anything? :/

Offline bhu

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #455 on: December 05, 2016, 08:57:18 PM »
Anyone else see Trump make Ben Carson his Head of Urban Development? As if believing that guy knows anything about anything? :/

Yeah, it's weird saying a guy who turned down a job he might have vague experience in since he was a surgeon because he admitted incompetence, only to turn around and snap up another one.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #456 on: December 05, 2016, 09:05:42 PM »
So he's graduated to filling posts with people that don't have anything to do with the briefs purely because of vague political connections?

This anti-corruption thing is going so well.

Offline dman11235

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #457 on: December 05, 2016, 09:49:35 PM »
No no no.  See, Carson is great for the HUD Secretary.  it has 'urban' as part of its name!  And as Huckabee pointed out, Carson actually use public housing at one point in his life!  That makes him double qualified!
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #458 on: December 06, 2016, 08:38:04 PM »

This anti-corruption thing is going so well.

*cackles manicly about first-world problems*

Ah, sorry. That was entirely too rude of me.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #459 on: December 06, 2016, 09:06:38 PM »

This anti-corruption thing is going so well.

*cackles manicly about first-world problems*

Ah, sorry. That was entirely too rude of me.

It's humorous regardless of how minor the corruption is. And going for populism and anti-corruption then... this.