While traveling, Durendal has been in Cat Crossing the Courtyard (a Basic Form from Wax style), carrying a shield on his arm. When his party is ambushed by an ogre, he begins the encounter in that Form, and so is granted the [Sheath] tag. His party is surprised, but during the surprise round, Durendal uses Unfolding the Fan (a Basic Assault from Wax style) to attack the ogre, and loses the [Sheath] tag, replaced by the granted tag of Unfolding the Fan, [Thrust]. When the ogre tries to attack him, Durendal uses The Falcon Stoops (a Basic Parry from Wood style) to damage the ogre, and replaces the [Thrust] tag with [Rend].
On Durendal's turn during the first full round, he has the [Rend] tag, and so uses The Serpent Strikes (a Basic Assault from Wood style), keeping the [Rend] tag and knocking the ogre out. The threat seems to be past, but he is wary, and switches to The Bear Sleeps in Winter (a Basic Form from Cloud style), losing [Rend] and gaining [Stand].
When the ogre's companions, a pair of wolves enraged by the loss of their protector, leap from the trees and surprise the party, Durendal uses Skipping Stones on the Shore (a Basic Parry from Cloud style) to raise his AC against the wolf that attacks him. He exchanges [Stand] for [Slash], and when it's his turn again, he uses Parting the Silk (a Basic Assault from Wax style) against his aggressor, losing [Slash] and gaining [Low]. If the combat continues, he could use Low Wind Rising to change his Form; or, if the wolves seemed likely to flee, he could make a Bladecraft check when using Parting the Silk to retain the [Slash] tag, so that he could use Twisting Weasel against the retreating animal.
Ranks | Bladecraft Dice | |
1-4 | 1d4 | |
5-8 | 1d6 | |
9-12 | 1d8 | |
13-16 | 1d4+1d6 | |
17-20 | 1d6+1d6 | |
21-24 | 1d8+1d6 | |
25-28 | 1d4+2d6 | |
29-32 | 1d6+2d6 | |
33-36 | 1d8+2d6 |
Characters who wait until high BaB and then dump a whole lot of ranks into Bladecraft can scoop up a lot of high level sword forms at once, skipping the lower level ones.Humm. Yes. Any suggested fixes for this? Or is it really a problem? It's kinda like waiting till high level to take your martial adept levels to get high-level maneuvers. Anyway, the easy way is to put in blanket prereqs, like have "to learn a moderate form you must have X basic forms" or something.
I'd go with any class that grants martial weapon proficiency with all weapons having it as a class skill, rather than making it by the individual character. Plus, that way you don't have to worry about what counts as a sword and what doesn't.Yeah, that's a good idea for simplicity.
If you don't want Bladecraft to interact with ToB, better use different names. Otherwise, you need to know the source of an ability to determine its context and thus which it affects (unless you want them to be interchangeable, of course).Yay! I couldn't think of alternate names. Assault is good; I'm not convinced about Posture, it doesn't mean quite the same thing. What about Guardant (as in en garde)? Or I could call it a Form and then change the name of Forms to Techniques.
Instead of Stance, how about Posture?
Instead of Strike, how about Assault?
You may wish to make this a flat-out variant that grants benefits based on BaB, rather than something always available at the cost of skill ranks. If the abilities are as useful as I think they're going to be, taking ranks in this skill will be a no-brainer and/or essentially required.Well, my thought had been that it's possible to fight things at least somewhat effectively without using sword forms. Everyone who wasn't trained by a blademaster in the books did so, you know? So I wanted to have there be a method of allowing varied investment in the mechanic. As for it being required... I'm hoping it will make a Fighter more viable, in which sense it would be required because a normal Fighter is not.
How about a feat that lets you get to a different set of forms than the one you're currently in would typically dictate? "Double Jointed" or something like that? (Quintuple-Jointed if you're a Thri-kreen :D)Well... you can already kind of do that with Favored Form.
Also, how about a feat that lets people use something other than a sword? Obviously, the class is primarily for sword-wielders, but if someone studied enough, they could potentially adapt these forms to other weapons (axes? Ashandarei? spears?).This would be more a factor of having other categories for forms, since many moves you make with a sword just don't make sense for weapons with other shapes.
Quite a lot of possible scope creep though. I'd say pick a few of them and finish them off first rather than spread yourself thin like that.
You may wish to make this a flat-out variant that grants benefits based on BaB, rather than something always available at the cost of skill ranks. If the abilities are as useful as I think they're going to be, taking ranks in this skill will be a no-brainer and/or essentially required.Well, my thought had been that it's possible to fight things at least somewhat effectively without using sword forms. Everyone who wasn't trained by a blademaster in the books did so, you know? So I wanted to have there be a method of allowing varied investment in the mechanic. As for it being required... I'm hoping it will make a Fighter more viable, in which sense it would be required because a normal Fighter is not.
Sounds like a series of [Combat] feats from the Tomes. I like those. :DYou may wish to make this a flat-out variant that grants benefits based on BaB, rather than something always available at the cost of skill ranks. If the abilities are as useful as I think they're going to be, taking ranks in this skill will be a no-brainer and/or essentially required.Well, my thought had been that it's possible to fight things at least somewhat effectively without using sword forms. Everyone who wasn't trained by a blademaster in the books did so, you know? So I wanted to have there be a method of allowing varied investment in the mechanic. As for it being required... I'm hoping it will make a Fighter more viable, in which sense it would be required because a normal Fighter is not.
It's more like the fact that a sword form will always be more valuable than any other skill rank to a martial combatant. Either that, or the effects will be too small and situational to be worth keeping track of. Possibly even both.
Yes, I am certainly worried about scope creep. It's already moved way beyond what I expected originally, lol. So I figured to start with the single-handed form since that seems to be most of what's in the books.Most of the offensive forms are 2H, but the iconic Westlands blademaster sword is a katana/bastard sword hybrid thats intended to be used that way anyway.
What do you want feedback on first?Anything and everything, so take your pick :) This isn't in a contest, so I don't have any deadlines.
I'll just go through the first post then.Wh-where did that go??? I USED to have it..... EDIT: Oh, it was moved to the Bladecraft Mechanics header. But either way I added it back into the skill description.
What classes is Bladecraft a class skill for?
Learning and Using Blade TechniquesCorrect.
- What happens if I don't take ranks in Bladecraft until BAB +3? Do I get the 3 basic techniques but lose out on the extra technique from BAB +2?
- Are forms encounter only as opposed to always on? IIRC ToB stances are always on.Always on.
- Do you have to be in a form of a style to use techniques of that style? If I'm in a Wax Style form can I use a techinque from Vine Style as long as the tags match up? (I'm assuming yes, just wanting to confirm.)Correct, you can use any technique whose tags (and other requirements, like using two weapons for Smoke style) are covered.
The tags are slightly confusing, hopefully they'll explain themselves later.I hope so too!
How many blade styles do you think you'll end up with?I have 10 planned (Wax, Fire/Iron/Vine, Smoke/Stone/Wind, 3 Expert), but there's no reason that we can't add more if we want to.
Before I get into styles I want to make sure that I understand the system.Perfect :)
I'm level one and know three techniques. I choose The Ox Lowers His Horns (Form), The Wood Grouse Dances (Assault), and Leaf Floating on the Breeze (Parry).
I start in my form and have the Low tag. On my turn I use The Wood Grouse Dances (requires Low tag) and then lose the Low tag and gain the Middle and Bash tags. On my opponent's turn I parry with Leaf Floating in the Breeze (requires Middle), and then lose the Bash tag and gain the Circle tag (ending with Middle and Circle). On my turn I can't use The Wood Grouse Dances because I don't have the required low tag so I don't use any technique and just do a normal attack. Because I didn't use a technique, I lose the Middle and Circle tags and gain the Low tag (the default for my form). Is this right?
And ranks in the skill are just to get you more dice, correct?Learning and Using Blade TechniquesCorrect.
- What happens if I don't take ranks in Bladecraft until BAB +3? Do I get the 3 basic techniques but lose out on the extra technique from BAB +2?
Quote- Are forms encounter only as opposed to always on? IIRC ToB stances are always on.Always on.
QuoteBefore I get into styles I want to make sure that I understand the system.Perfect :)
I'm level one and know three techniques. I choose The Ox Lowers His Horns (Form), The Wood Grouse Dances (Assault), and Leaf Floating on the Breeze (Parry).
I start in my form and have the Low tag. On my turn I use The Wood Grouse Dances (requires Low tag) and then lose the Low tag and gain the Middle and Bash tags. On my opponent's turn I parry with Leaf Floating in the Breeze (requires Middle), and then lose the Bash tag and gain the Circle tag (ending with Middle and Circle). On my turn I can't use The Wood Grouse Dances because I don't have the required low tag so I don't use any technique and just do a normal attack. Because I didn't use a technique, I lose the Middle and Circle tags and gain the Low tag (the default for my form). Is this right?
And to be able to learn higher-complexity maneuvers.And ranks in the skill are just to get you more dice, correct?Learning and Using Blade TechniquesCorrect.
- What happens if I don't take ranks in Bladecraft until BAB +3? Do I get the 3 basic techniques but lose out on the extra technique from BAB +2?
Yeah, I agree -- I had been going back and forth about how Forms would work, and that bit of ambiguity is a relic of then.QuoteQuote- Are forms encounter only as opposed to always on? IIRC ToB stances are always on.Always on.
"You begin each encounter in your most recent Form" should be rephrased in that case.
[/quote] Whenever there's actual rules stuff, it's duplicated in the technique rules text, other than the italics note for Stone style. Since the techniques are basically independent of their styles (other than thematic association), I wanted to make sure that the techniques had everything relevant.QuoteQuoteBefore I get into styles I want to make sure that I understand the system.Perfect :)
I'm level one and know three techniques. I choose The Ox Lowers His Horns (Form), The Wood Grouse Dances (Assault), and Leaf Floating on the Breeze (Parry).
I start in my form and have the Low tag. On my turn I use The Wood Grouse Dances (requires Low tag) and then lose the Low tag and gain the Middle and Bash tags. On my opponent's turn I parry with Leaf Floating in the Breeze (requires Middle), and then lose the Bash tag and gain the Circle tag (ending with Middle and Circle). On my turn I can't use The Wood Grouse Dances because I don't have the required low tag so I don't use any technique and just do a normal attack. Because I didn't use a technique, I lose the Middle and Circle tags and gain the Low tag (the default for my form). Is this right?
Obviously the tag system sorted itself out in my head.
Before I get into the syles (I'll do feats last because they're all style based and I want to see the system before looking at feat balance), I have one suggestion. I have a tendancy to skim over fluff and didn't realize that your style fluff includes rules elements. I'd suggest you add a rules elements sentence to the style descriptions.
Example (only the italicized text is new, nothing else is changed):
Smoke Style
The Smoke style has Advanced complexity. This style is characterized by two blades in constant motion, with the wielder melting away from attacks, twisting, and returning again to thrust steel into flesh. While Smoke style is extremely effective against undisciplined, even bestial opponents, a well-trained cadre of soldiers wielding spears and shields can trap and skewer a practitioner as easily as any other combatant.
All Smoke style techniques require the practitioner to be wielding two weapons, or a double weapon, in order to use them.
Ohh, I didn't notice that the techniques themselves had the restrictions listed. Good call.Absolutely!
Ready for me to move onto the techniques?
Reminder to self: Basic = lvl 1, Moderate = lvl 6, Advanced = lvl 11, Expert = lvl 16I don't remember what I originally intended, but either way I'm just going to give the bonus.
Anything that I don't mention is okay in my opinion. As of right now I'm not looking at tags, I'll do a tags analysis later (not in terms of if it's appropriate but just seeing how many tags there are and making sure that there aren't any weird outliers).
Wax Style
- The Wood Grouse Dances - do you only gain the insight bonus is the trip attempt fails? That's currently how it reads.
Flame StyleNope. :)
- Are there any restrictions on what can be in your off-hand?
Iron StyleEdited to make it not abusable, and to use Bladecraft instead of Balance.
- Emptiness - What's to prevent someone from exiting and re-entering the form when not in combat until they get the highest bonus they can?
Vine StyleYou make Bladecraft checks in a few of the advanced/expert techniques. Also I'm going to be adding a handful of Wax techniques, a couple of which will require Bladecraft checks.
- Leopard in High Grass - What does gaining a bonus on Bladecraft checks actually do besides letting you identify techniques?
- Plucking the Low-Hanging Apple - Damage could become ridiculous very easily.Oh jeez, I forgot about this. I think I gave that same effect in an advanced or expert technique. That needs to be seriously edited.
- Twisting the Wind - The record keeping on this one could get complicated, especially if switching back and forth between another form.Really? You only get a new pool with each encounter. If you switch out of it, you just set the dice aside until you come back to it. I can change the effect, if you really think it's a problem.
Smoke StyleWhile it's not exactly what I had in mind, I don't have a problem with it. People adapt what they learn to make their own fighting style.
- The fluff implies that shield bashes could count as a weapon for the purposes of meeting the requirements, is that intentional?
- Black Pebbles on Snow - I assume the penalty is based on the damage you would have dealt if you succeeded with both attacks?Correct. I'll clarify.
- Bundling Straw - Again I see ridiculous damage happening.Halved the number of dice. Hopefully that smooths it out a little more.
I need a break, I'll look at the rest later.:cheers
Twisting the Wind - The record keeping on this one could get complicated, especially if switching back and forth between another form.Really? You only get a new pool with each encounter. If you switch out of it, you just set the dice aside until you come back to it. I can change the effect, if you really think it's a problem.
QuoteSmoke Style - The fluff implies that shield bashes could count as a weapon for the purposes of meeting the requirements, is that intentional?While it's not exactly what I had in mind, I don't have a problem with it. People adapt what they learn to make their own fighting style.
I'll post new versions, and have the new Wax techniques up, tonight or tomorrow.
Okie doke!Twisting the Wind - The record keeping on this one could get complicated, especially if switching back and forth between another form.Really? You only get a new pool with each encounter. If you switch out of it, you just set the dice aside until you come back to it. I can change the effect, if you really think it's a problem.
I'm looking at it from a play-by-post perspective where you can't just put dice aside. It's not a bad technique, if it being maybe complicated is my worst critique then it's not bad.
The cadre of soldiers aren't using Smoke style, the practitioner is. The point being that if you're using Smoke style, but you get hemmed in by disciplined, armored opponents w/ reach, you're gonna have a bad time.QuoteQuoteSmoke Style - The fluff implies that shield bashes could count as a weapon for the purposes of meeting the requirements, is that intentional?While it's not exactly what I had in mind, I don't have a problem with it. People adapt what they learn to make their own fighting style.
It's not what you had in mind? You wrote "a well-trained cadre of soldiers wielding spears and shields can trap and skewer a practitioner as easily as any other combatant." :p
Sweet.QuoteI'll post new versions, and have the new Wax techniques up, tonight or tomorrow.
Okay, I'll wait to review the rest until you've made the changes and added the new Wax techniques.
New versions all seem fine.Awesome. :D
New Wax Techniques
- The Falcon Stoops looks fine.
- Ice Shatters Stone looks very good.
- The Serpent Strikes looks fine.
- The Swallow Glides to the Branch - why does this one require lots of movement when Stone Style requires not moving much?Who cares? It's not in Stone style. Also, moving 5 feet per round qualifies you for both. But if it really bothers you, I can take that requirement out.
- The Viper Flicks its Tongue - do you lose the shield bonus to ac when the ally gains it?I don't think so. Does it seem like you would? If so, I can clarify.
Stone StyleGood call. I switched it to a flat bonus.
- The Cyclone Rages - again, what stops you from exiting and entering the form to get the best bonus?
- Stone Falls from the Mountain has a typo. "tripepd":shakefist
Wind StyleYes - the techniques which have that text already grant you a free attack after the trip (i.e., Improved Trip replacements). This one doesn't, so I don't have to prevent someone from getting 2 free attacks on a trip.
- The Cat Dances on the Wall doesn't have the text about not getting a free attack even if you have the Improved Trip feat. Intentional?
I'll finish up later.:plotting
- The Swallow Glides to the Branch - why does this one require lots of movement when Stone Style requires not moving much?Who cares? It's not in Stone style. Also, moving 5 feet per round qualifies you for both. But if it really bothers you, I can take that requirement out.
Quote- The Viper Flicks its Tongue - do you lose the shield bonus to ac when the ally gains it?I don't think so. Does it seem like you would? If so, I can clarify.
+5 is a lot but it's level 11 so it's probably fine.QuoteStone StyleGood call. I switched it to a flat bonus.
- The Cyclone Rages - again, what stops you from exiting and entering the form to get the best bonus?
- Stone Falls from the Mountain has a typo. "tripepd":shakefist
Okay, just checking.QuoteWind StyleYes - the techniques which have that text already grant you a free attack after the trip (i.e., Improved Trip replacements). This one doesn't, so I don't have to prevent someone from getting 2 free attacks on a trip.
- The Cat Dances on the Wall doesn't have the text about not getting a free attack even if you have the Improved Trip feat. Intentional?
QuoteI'll finish up later.:plotting
Based on GitP comments, I've edited the Blade Training feat, added 4 new feats, and edited several techniques.
Yeah... I get that. I think I was marrying mechanics to fluff too heavily. I'll see what I can do.- The Swallow Glides to the Branch - why does this one require lots of movement when Stone Style requires not moving much?Who cares? It's not in Stone style. Also, moving 5 feet per round qualifies you for both. But if it really bothers you, I can take that requirement out.
It's not in Stone Style, but the intent as I read it is for someone who's planning on going shield user (and thus will eventually be taking a lot of Stone Style techniques) to be using it. The disparity is odd.
I don't think you HAVE to (mostly I was reining in the balance excesses), but if you'd LIKE to, I edited The Creeper Embraces the Oak, The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain, Emptiness, The Branch in the Storm, Apple Blossoms in the Wind, and Tower of Morning.QuoteBased on GitP comments, I've edited the Blade Training feat, added 4 new feats, and edited several techniques.
Want me to re-go over the edited techniques?
Ugh, I'm falling behind.No worries.
Clay Style:banghead
- The Mongoose Strikes the Serpent has a typo: "an another"
Is there a cap or ruling on bladecraft dice stacking?Haven't thought about it. Are there enough ways to stack BC dice to cause balance problems, do you think?
Glass StyleHm... good call. I'll scale it back to 1/2 BC ranks.
- Oak Shakes its Branches sounds extremely lethal, a +19 bonus to AC at 16th level in exchange for knocking your opponent out so your allies can finish him sounds like potentially too much.
- River of Light - any reason you can't specifically target a limb?Not really, other than that I didn't feel like writing any more specific rules than I already had :D
Water StyleBefore. I'll clarify in the text.
- Whirlwind on the Mountain - are the extra damage dice added before or after halving the damage?
Raging Bladeform prompts the question: do techniques require patience or concentration (which would make then unable to be used in a rage)?No. They're a product of training and muscle memory. If you have to concentrate or think about what you're doing, you'll be too slow in a combat situation. It needs to be instinctive. I'll put in some text about it.
The other feats look good. I'm a bit surprised that you can be in a form and a stance at the same time.Why not? They're different subsystems. :) It's like being a cleric and a wizard at the same time.
BlademasterYes - I'll clarify.
- Heart's blood weeps - does this stack with other crit multiplier boosters?
A table (preferably sortable) with each technique's required and granted position, motion, and auxiliary tags would be really helpful to try to figure out a flow of things, especially for low-level characters who only have a few techniques and thus have to ensure that they can chain one to another. For example, Viper Flicks is an assault in Wax that requires the Thrust motion tag, which itself can only be acquired (in Wax) from the Parting the Silk and Unfolding the Fan assaults (no parries or forms).Viper Flicks (along with a few others) was added after I made the rest of Wax, so I hadn't accounted for it within the spread of tags in Wax.
Also, it's kinda odd to me that Unfolding the Fan and Viper Flicks are the only two techniques in Wax that can't be used with position tags. Also strange is Folding the Fan, which works off of any tag at all.Whew, there's a lot of stuff here for me to process.
You've got one Wax form for each of the 4 position tags, and one for each of the 2 auxiliary tags (even though nothing in Wax uses Circle specifically), but none for any of the motion tags.
Math about tags for a sec. 4 position, 4 motions, and 2 independent auxiliary tags means 5*5*(2^2) = 100 tag permutations. So, you could have 10000 techniques with unique combinations of required and granted tags, including 100 forms (the ones with no tags required). Well, probably 99, since you probably don't want a form that grants no tags at all. Mind you, looking at the expert styles, you're treating Diagonal more like an auxiliary than a position, so that's 4*5*(2^3) = 160 permutations.
Speaking of independence and dependence of tags within their categories, I'd like to suggest enforcing in the design (and changing some of the higher complexity techniques) to have the two main tag categories (position, motion) be mutually exclusive within themselves (ie: only one of Low, Middle, High, or Diagonal at a time, ditto for Thrust, Bash, Slash, and Lunge). May also wish to change those techniques that let you pick which tags you're granted to likewise enforce this restriction.
Actually, if you do something like that except actually enforced in the rules, then aside from the auxiliaries, you don't actually need to have techniques completely replace the tags by default, instead only overwriting whichever tag category they grant a tag to. Tags might only get cleared if you use a technique that specifically removes them (like a big finisher). Um, hmm... I'm getting conceptual ideas for a system like that that also leverages the multiple attacks per round that high BAB characters get into a sort of build-your-own-combo system (within the span of a full attack). That would require at least 4 independent tag categories, rather than 2. Don't need to worry about extra attacks, since the maximum potency (and required tags) is limited based on the strongest techniques you know, so you don't get anything super extra, just building up to another smaller combo, or to make a more powerful parry available with a full powered finisher.
Techniques are inconsistent about the order that tags are written. I'd suggest always put position first, then motion, then aux.I know they are. I was trying to do alphabetical, but I got mixed up in a few places and haven't bothered to fix it.
Also, I'm working on a table for you. :)You are awesome. And, just in time for me to completely overhaul the tag system! (please don't kill me)
Bladecraft Dice StackingOkie doke. I think BC dice can stack by default.
I haven't done the math because there are people here way better at math analysis than I am, but there are only a couple of stances that grant dice (all from Clay IIRC). Nothing else I've seen allows dice stacking.
For River of LightOk that works. I'll incorporate this wording when I post the major overhauls.
I'd suggest adjusting the final paragraph to read as follows if you don't want to make extra rules (I tried to to get too deep, for example I'd consider a tentacle to fall under forelimbs but there's no need to specify that):
If you choose to remove the target's has arms or forelimbs, one of these is removed. The target cannot use that limb to hold equipment or make attacks. If you choose to remove the target's wings, one of the wings is removed, and the target cannot use its wings to fly or glide, and cannot use the severed wing to make wing attacks. Otherwise, you can choose to remove one of the target's legs, and its base land speed is halved. If the target was bipedal, it falls prone. Only limbs that fall under one of these categories (arms/forelimbs, wings, or legs) can be targeted by this technique.
On stances and forms at the same timeYeah, I get that. Lol.
Yes, it is like being a Cleric and a Wizard at the same time. You can't cast a cleric spell and a wizard spell at the same time. :P
I'm fine with them stacking, it just struck me as odd.
It looks like I won't have to do a tags analysis, other people are already on that one. I don't have time to consider an overhaul right now...Indeed.
I'll pause any more reviewing until you've started posting the overhaul, no need to re-go over things more in depth when it could all change.Right. I'm guessing that most of the techniques I've posted won't change substantially, but they may be reorganized into different styles and/or complexities.
I'll pause any more reviewing until you've started posting the overhaul, no need to re-go over things more in depth when it could all change.Right. I'm guessing that most of the techniques I've posted won't change substantially, but they may be reorganized into different styles and/or complexities.
Based on feedback from GitP as well, people are in favor of the complete tag restructuring (with 16 tags). So I'm working on that writeup & reorganization now.Ugh. I think 16 is definitely too much. I have the feeling that this will lead to more defined action chains, rather than having lots of possibilities after any given action. Which goes against the idea of Blademasters being improvisational dancers.
Based on feedback from GitP as well, people are in favor of the complete tag restructuring (with 16 tags). So I'm working on that writeup & reorganization now.Ugh. I think 16 is definitely too much. I have the feeling that this will lead to more defined action chains, rather than having lots of possibilities after any given action. Which goes against the idea of Blademasters being improvisational dancers.
Based on feedback from GitP as well, people are in favor of the complete tag restructuring (with 16 tags). So I'm working on that writeup & reorganization now.Ugh. I think 16 is definitely too much. I have the feeling that this will lead to more defined action chains, rather than having lots of possibilities after any given action. Which goes against the idea of Blademasters being improvisational dancers.
I agree. I also think taking down the old version is bad form.
Just to confirm before I start looking at things, the tag system itself is done being reworked even if all the tags for the styles aren't finished?Yes. I'm done changing the list of tags (at least unless people think what I have now is terrible, lol), it's set at 12. The intro rules post now has the correct list. I'm also done assigning tags to the Basic techs. Of course, that's subject to editing suggestions - I mean, I didn't leave anything unfinished before I posted them.
I've noticed that not all Cleave required techniques actually state that they need the weapon to be wielded in two hands. Are you assuming that the person will remember that Cleave = two hands or was that an oversight? (Not judging, just asking.)It SHOULD say that in the Cleave tag description. Or is that what you meant about remembering? I had hoped to be able to take out the text.
I've noticed that not all Cleave required techniques actually state that they need the weapon to be wielded in two hands. Are you assuming that the person will remember that Cleave = two hands or was that an oversight? (Not judging, just asking.)It SHOULD say that in the Cleave tag description. Or is that what you meant about remembering? I had hoped to be able to take out the text.
Oh, ok. I can include it, then. Which one is missing?I've noticed that not all Cleave required techniques actually state that they need the weapon to be wielded in two hands. Are you assuming that the person will remember that Cleave = two hands or was that an oversight? (Not judging, just asking.)It SHOULD say that in the Cleave tag description. Or is that what you meant about remembering? I had hoped to be able to take out the text.
That's what I said about remembering. It is in the cleave tag, but it's also in all of the Cleave basic techniques but one.
Oh, ok. I can include it, then. Which one is missing?I've noticed that not all Cleave required techniques actually state that they need the weapon to be wielded in two hands. Are you assuming that the person will remember that Cleave = two hands or was that an oversight? (Not judging, just asking.)It SHOULD say that in the Cleave tag description. Or is that what you meant about remembering? I had hoped to be able to take out the text.
That's what I said about remembering. It is in the cleave tag, but it's also in all of the Cleave basic techniques but one.
The Robin Pecks at the Worm. The first sentence of The Fox and the Chicken says "Wielding your weapon two-handed..."Aha! OK, I've added the text to TRPatW.
"Folding the Fan" (Wax) still says "Granted: Sheathed"I'm a horrible, horrible person for missing all of these. :sobbing Thank you
"The Serpent Strikes" (Wood) has an extra [ at the start.
"The Viper Flicks Its Tongue" (Wood) should say "Basic Wood Assault"
All of the following need the order of their tags checked:
- Kissing the Adder (Flame)
- Lion on the Hill (Flame)
- Ribbon in the Air (Flame)
- Cutting the Clouds (Iron)
- Watered Silk (Iron)
- Plucking the Low-Hanging Apple (Vine)
- The River Undercuts the Bank (Vine)
- Twisting the Wind (Vine)
The following have an extra period at the end of their tags:
- Emptiness (Iron)
- Two Hares Leaping (Iron)
- Leopard in the Tree (Vine)
- Twisting the Wind (Vine)
Cloud:D
- Low Wind Rising requires Stand but it says you can use it while sitting. This amuses me.
WoodIn answer, I'll quote here an exchange between me & Amechra over on GitP:
- I feel like from a thematic viewpoint each style (at least each Basic style) should be usable by itself. The Falcon Stoops requires Thrust but no Wood technique grants Thrust.
Flame
-it's less necessary here, but Lightning of Three Prongs requires Spin and it's also the only Flame technique that grants Spin.
Iron
- Lion Springs requires Spin but no Iron technique grants Spin.
Lol. Hopefully that explains it!Quote from: sirpercivalI know - I just wanted to point it out to everyone so they'd all know how clever you are .Quote from: AmechraInteresting note (if you treat the Styles as "complete" fighting styles):This is all entirely intentional, and also, in my opinion, 100% necessary. The styles are NOT "complete", and were explicitly designed not to be, and it's why I kept the number of techniques per style so limited (compare 8 techniques to ~25 maneuvers in a discipline). If you ever want or need to be able to switch seamlessly between styles mid-combat, there have to be entry and exit points so you don't waste any actions. This is a requirement - a Blademaster who isn't versatile or adaptable is a dead Blademaster. The styles are convenience groupings only - the ultimate Blademaster knows every technique.
- Cloud Stylists have to reset after Skipping Stone on the Shore, and will be using Low Wind Rises all the frickin' time. Also, to them, The Red Hawk Catches A Dove → The Fox And The Chicken → The Wolf Stalks Through The Mist probably all seem like parts of the same technique.
- Leaf Stylists can't use The Maiden Dances, and have to reset their pattern after The Robin Pecks The Worm. Which, unfortunately, will happen inevitably, unless you can continue to loop Drifting Snow and Leaf Floating On The Breeze. Literally anything else will lead to the sequence ending at The Robin Pecks The Worm.
- Wax Stylists have to reset after Cat On Hot Sand and The Millstone Grinds Flour. They end up boiling down to "spam (Un)Folding The Fan over and over".
- Wood Stylists can't use The Falcon Stoops, and have to reset their pattern when they use Pressing Apples Into Cider. Their sequences tend to be short or repetitive. Dog Howling At Midnight is probably viewed as a poor stance to start from - it provides limited options.
...
And then the guy who has mastered more than one comes by and demonstrates that the so-called "dead ends" of each style flow into each-other flawlessly, making up for each-other's weakness.
BoneI shall attempt to clarify.
- The Stone Remembers has some confusing language with the bonuses.
It feels like the word "the" appears too many times at the start of technique names. I haven't read the Stormlight Archives, but in the other two, for the most part the form names don't usually start with "the." Some suggestions:All of the technique names in the original 10 styles were taken almost verbatim from WoT. For example, check this out. (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_forms)Take a look at the Advanced and Expert techniques for the same thing.(click to show/hide)
By the by, I'm working on a table as part of the rework. So you don't need to make one :)Now you tell me... :shakefist
Oh, re: tag order, all of those are correct. Note that tags are now given in the order Gesture, Hand, Motion, Position (which it says in the post header for each styles post).Well, in that case you should make the order of the "Bladecraft Tags" intro in the inital post be that same order.
Huh. That's not at all what I remembered. In that case, do whatever. :)It feels like the word "the" appears too many times at the start of technique names. I haven't read the Stormlight Archives, but in the other two, for the most part the form names don't usually start with "the." Some suggestions:All of the technique names in the original 10 styles were taken almost verbatim from WoT. For example, check this out. (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_forms)Take a look at the Advanced and Expert techniques for the same thing.(click to show/hide)
But if other people have a problem with them, I can edit.
...I''l quote here an exchange between me & Amechra over on GitP:Good stuff! Maybe put something to that effect somewhere in the rules / descriptions?Quote from: AmechraQuote from: sirpercivalExchaneQuote from: AmechraExchangeExchange
Blood StyleGrammar.
The Blood style has Advanced complexity. Almost every advanced student learns techniques from Blood style, the pulsing heart of superior Bladecraft. As the techniques a practitioner learns become more and more complex, it becomes similarly complicated to chain them together into a smooth, continuous dance. Blood style emphasizes control and fluidity, allowing the combatant to adapt to an evolving battle. While few of its techniques are particularly deadly in isolation, but every sequence of blows exchanged by the best Blademasters includes at least one technique from the Blood style.
Dangit, I thought I fixed that. It'll be fixed in the next update.QuoteBlood StyleGrammar.
The Blood style has Advanced complexity. Almost every advanced student learns techniques from Blood style, the pulsing heart of superior Bladecraft. As the techniques a practitioner learns become more and more complex, it becomes similarly complicated to chain them together into a smooth, continuous dance. Blood style emphasizes control and fluidity, allowing the combatant to adapt to an evolving battle. While few of its techniques are particularly deadly in isolation, but every sequence of blows exchanged by the best Blademasters includes at least one technique from the Blood style.
Dangit, I thought I fixed that. It'll be fixed in the next update.QuoteBlood StyleGrammar.
The Blood style has Advanced complexity. Almost every advanced student learns techniques from Blood style, the pulsing heart of superior Bladecraft. As the techniques a practitioner learns become more and more complex, it becomes similarly complicated to chain them together into a smooth, continuous dance. Blood style emphasizes control and fluidity, allowing the combatant to adapt to an evolving battle. While few of its techniques are particularly deadly in isolation, but every sequence of blows exchanged by the best Blademasters includes at least one technique from the Blood style.
So, I'm thinking about allowing a Bladecraft check to change a granted tag. It's kinda necessary in Expert, since there are only 32 techniques (including forms) and 81 possible combinations of the 12 tags... my coverage is less than half. Two questions: (a) does anyone see a problem with this? (b) should it be an intrinsic part of the skill, or should it be a feat w/ high pre-reqs?
That is a very interesting idea. Would it be in place of a granted tag, or in addition to?Dangit, I thought I fixed that. It'll be fixed in the next update.QuoteBlood StyleGrammar.
The Blood style has Advanced complexity. Almost every advanced student learns techniques from Blood style, the pulsing heart of superior Bladecraft. As the techniques a practitioner learns become more and more complex, it becomes similarly complicated to chain them together into a smooth, continuous dance. Blood style emphasizes control and fluidity, allowing the combatant to adapt to an evolving battle. While few of its techniques are particularly deadly in isolation, but every sequence of blows exchanged by the best Blademasters includes at least one technique from the Blood style.
So, I'm thinking about allowing a Bladecraft check to change a granted tag. It's kinda necessary in Expert, since there are only 32 techniques (including forms) and 81 possible combinations of the 12 tags... my coverage is less than half. Two questions: (a) does anyone see a problem with this? (b) should it be an intrinsic part of the skill, or should it be a feat w/ high pre-reqs?
It should be a check to keep a pre-existing tag.
I may not have enough posts reserved for all of this. If not, I'll make a new thread w/ more posts reserved.Sub-forum?
I could, but I still have to keep it all in one thread over on GitP, so I might as well keep it consistent.I may not have enough posts reserved for all of this. If not, I'll make a new thread w/ more posts reserved.Sub-forum?
:bsI could, but I still have to keep it all in one thread over on GitP, so I might as well keep it consistent.I may not have enough posts reserved for all of this. If not, I'll make a new thread w/ more posts reserved.Sub-forum?
Cavalier's Bladeform - should the [High] bonus only apply while mounted?Updating to clarify (and add another effect).
Sun StyleClarifying that it's a skill check.
- The Creeper Climbs the Cliff - Skill checks can't crit-fail or succeed, does that apply to this form? (I'm looking for clarification if the form is "use Bladecraft instead of attack bonus" or "make skill check instead of attack roll".)
- Meltwater Flooding the Banks - does this need a range?Editing to indicate that the opponent has to have line of sight to you.
- Whirlwind on the Mountain should restrict the attack to an opponent who is threatening you (that's obviously the intent but it doesn't actually say that in the first line).Yeah, someone else pointed that out too. I'll make it so.
Hey folks, this is a couple versions behind the GitP post, because I'm waiting on Prime to give me a subforum. At that point I'll bring everything here up to speed. :)