Author Topic: The Bloodlines Handbook: Balanced Interpretation & Implementation  (Read 10480 times)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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The Bloodlines Handbook: Balanced Interpretation & Implementation
Everything you ever wanted to know about bloodlines and why some do not correctly use them.

What? Too literal for you?

We will know we have succeeded in a balanced use of bloodlines when: Given our reading of Bloodlines we would, if allowed, use their slight boost for any character. Like flaws, I see a small be steady gain to be made to most any build so long as we temper our reading of Bloodlines.



Straight from the sources (with my bolding for mechanics and italics for intent):
Quote from: SRD:
Over the course of his career, a character with a bloodline becomes more powerful than one without a bloodline. Because the power gain is gradual over a span of twenty levels, a static level adjustment doesn't truly reflect this difference. Instead, a bloodline character must take one or more levels of "bloodline" at various points in his career, as noted on Table: Bloodline Levels. Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

If the character does not take a class level of bloodline before reaching the character level indicated on the table, he gains no further bloodline traits and must take a 20% penalty on all future XP gains. As soon as he meets the minimum bloodline level, he gains all bloodline abilities due him according to his character level, and the XP penalty no longer applies.

For example, A 1st-level character with a major bloodline (silver dragon) receives a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks as a bloodline trait. When he reaches 2nd character level, he gains the Alertness feat as a bloodline trait. Before he reaches 3rd character level, he must take a level of bloodline in order to continue gaining bloodline traits. if he reaches 3rd character level and has no bloodline levels, he does not gain the bloodline trait due him at 3rd character level (Strength +1) and must take a 20% reduction on all future XP gains. If he later meets the minimum required bloodline levels, he gains his 3rd-level trait at that time (as well as any other traits he may have failed to receive for not taking his bloodline level right away), and the XP reduction no longer applies to future gains. Before reaching his 6th character level, he must have taken two levels of bloodline in order to keep gaining bloodline traits. If he takes his third bloodline level before reaching 12th character level, he becomes eligible to gain all the traits of his bloodline (as they become available when he reaches new character levels).

A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters.

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.

If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.

Interpretations of the bold and italicized features in consecutive order:
Quote from: Interpretations:
The overall intent is supposed to be a slow BUT REAL gain.

The bloodline penalty for all these tasty abilities is not an LA.

The bloodline level is RIGHT BEFORE (not anytime before or we could take all 3 as level 0, 1, and 2 for only a 3000xp loss...) the 3rd, 6th, or 12th level

If they mean at why do they say 'before'? because it is RIGHT BEFORE the actual level 3/6/12 class levels.

no HD, bab, saves, features... its not an ECL class. And the 'it counts as a normal class level' is ONLY for skill rank purposes, NOT ECL

We only have Bloodline level-dependent gains for abilities that are character abilities. So we first categorize what abilities get boosted by the total effect on the character, not by division of the class levels.

The 'each class' part is for classes that are wildly different (like barb and rogue), not for a base class that stacks with a class ability. Remember the above rule and look at the examples - they are not 15 instances of animal companion classes but rather completely seperate true-multiclassing.

Now to check our interpretations against the examples:
Quote from: SRD:
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.

Similarly, the stunning attacks of a 3rd-level monk with one bloodline level have a save DC equal to 12 (10 + one-half class level) plus her Wisdom modifier, since the bloodline level is treated as if it were a monk class level when calculating the save DC. A 3rd-level monk/3rd-level sorcerer with two bloodline levels would be treated as a 5th-level spellcaster and a 5th-level monk for determining level-based abilities.

And now the FAQ and its examples:
Quote from: FAQ:
What class features do my character’s bloodline levels (from Unearthed Arcana) stack with? Do they stack with only one class or with all my classes? Do they stack with other class levels for the purpose of meeting prerequisites?

   Your bloodline levels stack with your normal class levels “when calculating any character ability based on . . . class levels” (Unearthed Arcana, page 19). The key word here is “calculate”—it means when you use the level as part of some mathematical determination of the class feature’s power or uses. Abilities that say “add your class level” count, but abilities that say “a character of level X gains this effect” don’t.
   Examples from the Player’s Handbook where bloodline levels would stack with normal class levels include the bard’s bardic knowledge and uses of bardic music per day; the cleric and paladin’s effective turning level; the druid and ranger’s wild empathy; the druid’s HD limit for wild shape; the monk’s wholeness of body, abundant step, diamond soul, quivering palm, and empty body; the paladin’s smite evil and lay on hands; and perhaps most importantly, caster level.
   Many class features improve as you gain levels but aren’t specifically calculated with class level. A rogue’s sneak attack, for example, improves at a fixed rate, but it doesn’t specifically use your class level to calculate its value in the way that the abilities listed above do. The same is true of a monk’s unarmed damage, AC bonus, and unarmored speed bonus, of a barbarian’s number of rages per day, and so on. Similarly, it doesn’t add to the power of your animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
   Your bloodline levels never actually grant you new class features. A 2nd-level bard with one bloodline level doesn’t gain inspire competence (although he may use his bardic music three times per day).
   Your bloodline levels stack with all of your class levels for this purpose. A 2nd-level cleric/2nd-level druid with one bloodline level has a caster level of 3rd for both classes, turns undead as a 3rd-level cleric, and adds +3 (plus his Charisma modifier) to wild empathy checks just as a 3rd-level druid.
   Bloodline levels don’t stack with class levels for the purpose of meeting prerequisites (such as the minimum fighter level for selecting Weapon Specialization).



Lets lay out the stacking basics:
1) None of the examples lay out a complete and complicated implementation of a major bloodlines in a highly multiclasses (and multi-prestige classed) build.

2) Nevertheless, the examples do mention slightly multiclassed builds. Therefore this is the implied application of the text in question. When the FAQ reiterates bloodlines stacking "with all your class levels" it means specifically that the bloodlines 3 level advancement applies to every level-calculated ability your character has from class levels.

3) So if we keep track of the stacking by each ability per character rather than by each level that grants or Prc that stacks with a base classes' ability, how does this make things better? Because instead of a rebuke-based cleric who dipped into 5 rebuke-stacking Prc's gaining +18 to max HD of a creature he can rebuke, he only gains +3 because the ability is only gained from one actual class - he only has one rebuke undead ability. Now if said cleric were a dread necromancer/cleric multiclasser he would have two rebuke undead abilities and they would each gain +3 - just like the core examples.



Now that the stacking issues seem resolved, what about when and how we take bloodline levels?
1) Though the primary source all uses the word "before", all the examples seem to place the timing of the taking of the bloodline levels immediately before 3, 6, or 12. I counter that they meant 'immediately before' meaning that one takes the level after level 2/5/11 but before you take your normal class level at 3/6/12 after the bloodline level at 3/6/12.

2) 'What's this, two levels of 3, 6, and 12?' Yes, because "Class levels of 'bloodline' do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does." Since the ECL does not change after the bloodline level the character is free to take a real class level that will put ECL up to 3/6/12. But upon gaining the virtual Bloodline levels, we STILL have to get again all the experience to go to class levels 3/6/12. This forces a Bloodlines character who wants to go from class level 2 to class level 3 actually pays for that level 3 xp twice. This counts as the 'cost' of the levels and the reason they are not free (since they don't add to ECL).

3) 'I've got you now! This makes the bloodlines table unbalance minor and intermediate bloodlines in favor of the almost-as-XP-costly major bloodline.' Well that depends. WotC didn't realize that experience is a river. If they did its possible the table is wrong (a small copy and paste error on a table happens often). UA doesn't have its own errata so we can't be sure. I'm fine with having the current, RAW 'go for the gold!' sort of pattern to encourage major bloodlines. Note that changing the table doesn't change the fact that the experience is a river. If you want more incremented costs, feel free to house rule the table as:
Code: [Select]
Table: Bloodline Levels
Bloodline Level Bloodline Strength
Minor Intermediate Major
1st 3rd 3rd 3rd
2nd n/a 6th 6th
3rd n/a n/a 12th

4) It's been brought up by keener rule-abusers than me (okay fine, I don't really try to abuse the rules... ::hangs head in shame:: ) that by cross referencing the XP tables, the bloodline levels (between whatever ECL) should be nearly free. Paying 1 xp will get you to the next true level, since there is no rule stating you can't use the same XP for two purposes. We all know that rule should exist. It is my opinion that using such abuse will stain you and your DM's opinion of an otherwise fascinating, balanced and flavorful system.


Other Thoughts:
1 Its no suprise that the Buyoff (which also uses a 3x formula for when it can act) is in the same book. Both are systems to even out large static gains. Both also use large XP penalties to make them work (bloodlines just uses the confusing term 'level' to help clarify its calculation boostings).

2 Just like Weapons of Legacy, the tools are given to the player to encourage them to create their own personalized Bloodlines. Just like WoL, if all we were allowed to choose from were the set ones, no one would ever use them.



The SRD on creating your own bloodline (Just like Weapon's of Legacy, its only really tasty when you can "Have it your way")
Quote from: SRD:
Bloodline traits fall into four categories.
Ability Boost
You gain a permanent +1 increase to the given ability score. This is similar to the ability increase gained by characters at every fourth level.

Bloodline Affinity
You gain a bonus (either +2, +4, or +6) on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Perform checks made to interact with creatures of your bloodline.

Skill Boost
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made with the given skill.

Special
You gain a special ability. Common bloodline special abilities include bonus feats, natural armor, special attacks (such as the ability to smite evil or smite good), special qualities (such as resistance to energy, spell resistance, or scent), or spell-like abilities.

If you already have a feat that a bloodline provides as a bonus feat, you may choose a different feat. For example, the minor celestial bloodline grants Alertness as a bonus feat at 8th level, If a character with this bloodline already has Alertness by the time he reaches 8th level, he can choose any other feat instead (subject to normal prerequisites, of course).

...

You might choose to create bloodlines of creatures not included here, to create more specialized celestial, demon, or devil bloodlines, or even to create more potent versions of the bloodlines here for use in your game.

Table: Bloodline Trait Distribution gives you the basic framework for bloodline traits. Over the course of twenty levels, a major bloodline boosts four skills (giving each a +2 bonus) and three ability scores (increasing each by 1). It grants a bloodline affinity at three stages (+2, +4, and +6) and provides ten special abilities. Intermediate bloodlines grant the first ten traits, spread out over twenty levels. Minor bloodlines grant the first five traits.

When creating a new bloodline, use those described above as guidelines for appropriate special abilities.

The SRD major bloodlines chart: (since we will always want a major bloodline unless XP is really a big issue, in which case perhaps you might not want to use Bloodlines or make your own equipment or playing a caster or...)
Quote from: SRD:
1st   Skill boost 1
2nd   Special 1
3rd   Ability boost 1
4th   Special 2
5th   Affinity +2
6th   Special 3
7th   Skill boost 2
8th   Special 4
9th   Ability boost 2
10th   Special 5
11th   Affinity +4
12th   Special 6
13th   Skill boost 3
14th   Special 7
15th   Ability boost 3
16th   Special 8
17th   Affinity +6
18th   Special 9
19th   Skill boost 4
20th   Special 10

So for 21,000xp (for an 0 LA character to have a major bloodline) we get 0-10 feats, 4 skills with an unnamed +2, +1 to three different base stats, and +6 to many checks with creatures from your bloodline by level 20. Perhaps the xp penalty is a bit steep (you might not get that level 20 class level before your group goes epic) but there are ways to overcome this, ways with which I prefer this thread not concern itself.


A sample Bloodlines attachment to DavidWL's Sam the commoner build:
(click to show/hide)


How to get your DM to be more inclined to let you use Bloodlines:
1) Make the fluff match. If you want the extra power from an ancestral line you have to make it make sense for your character. This is more than 'disguising' your power-gaming, its creating coherence.

2) Assign only abilities for which your build will meet the prereqs and preferably do this all within the Bloodline levels. Feat chains should be encouraged. Yes, I know some of the set ones allow feats without the pre-req's but that doesn't mean your DM should.

3) Make the custom abilities match a theme. If you slam the biggest baddest 10 feats you can think of all together, it will stink of cheese. But if you stick 10 low grade but all related feats together, that might slide (opening up the big ones for your HD feats).


A full listing of all base clase abilities that stack with bloodline levels:
Code: [Select]
Barbarian's (and Rogue's) Improved Uncanny Dodge required enemy rogue level to flank
Barbarian's (and Totemist's) Literacy is shaky, requires a DM ruling and I would rule no.
Bard's Bardic music uses
Binder's Effective Binder Level
Caster Level (Duh, it says so)
Cleric's (and Paladin's) turning level, or similiar abilities like Shaman's chastice spirits, etc
Cleric's (and Paladin, Incarnate and Soulborn) Aura strength stacking
Dragon Shaman (and Dragonfire Adept's) breath weapon DC
Dragon Shaman Touch of vitality max hp you can heal
Dragon Shaman Commune with Dragon Spirit questions
Druid's Wildshape HD & duration
Druid's (and Ranger's and Totemist's) Wild Empathy
Hexblade's Curse DC
Incarnum classes' Meldshaper level increases (like caster level)
Initiator Level increases by a half for each bloodline level you have.
Knight's Challenge (and daunting version) uses and DC
Monk's Wholeness of Body healing, Abundant Step CL, Diamond Soul SR, and Quivering Palm DC
Paladin's lay on hands
Paladin's (and Soulborn's) smite evil damage
Manifester level AND bonus PP! (yes both are calculated) for Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, etc
Ninja's Ghostmind DC
Truenamer's Utterance DCs (like caster level)
Spelltheif's max caster level of spells that can be stolen
Spell resistence from various classes
SoulKnife's rounds to sustain mindblade in a null psionics field before remaking the check.

What else does not stack with Bloodline levels:
Code: [Select]
No Special Mount (usually paladin) since chart lookup has nearly random ranges, not calculations
No Incarnum Max essentia capacity because it is a chart based and not a calculation
No soulmelds/essentia/chakra binds from classes (like level spells known)
No "at xth level" will count, it has to be a calculation
Nor "every additional x'th level after this one" either

The "per x class levels" is probably fine so long as each new instance of it does not appear in the class's
prograssion table... Your DM might feel this is shaky.

Pulled from my Thread and Build Archive

If anyone thinks I'm just blowing smoke, take a look at this lovely thread. It was created whilst my handbook got buried in 339 (before reposting here). Also I didn't not change the thread's direction, others did.

Also:
Quote from: KellKheraptis
the XP to buy bloodline levels is [covered by] the amount of XP gained by investing XP in an Item Familiar.  Coincidence?
It is actually 2000+5000+11000=17k xp, which an item familiar covers with 2k to spare by level 20 or .1k xp to spare by level 19 sans xp as a river.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: The Bloodlines Handbook: Balanced Interpretation & Implementation
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 12:29:55 AM »
Sorry this took so long to post. I've been pulling a lot of threads to my archiving location whilst keeping up with the moving and shakings here.