Author Topic: Iconic Examples?  (Read 15314 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Iconic Examples?
« on: November 07, 2011, 11:16:51 PM »
As I just mentioned else where.

In light of new forum, I did have another idea. As an addium(sp) to the specific handbooks, why not have a general? Like, how often to we get a charge based barbarian, or assassin rogue, or dragonfire bard crewsader? Call it the iconic 12, single build tailored exactly for that class's focus with some notes on options. It could be an easy answer/resource for an idea of a new class to you or even starting to play D&D. Link to the dedicated handbook for each class would give you detailed options and more complicated builds. Sounds pretty nifty really, I think I'll open a discussion on it later (or tomorrow, like always I'm playing video games and posting at the same time) and see what kind of interest people have as a whole.

Thoughts?

Offline Prime32

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 08:38:47 AM »
So, level by level?

Maybe divide the builds up by how difficult they are to play.

Offline veekie

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 09:19:42 AM »
Level by level would make the distinctions unclear. Why not make it every 5 levels or so?

So you have Krusk Barbarian Mook(level 1), Krusk Bear-killer(level 6), Krusk the Sacker of Cities(level 11), Genghiz Krusk(level 16), God-of-war Krusk(level 20).
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Offline Bozwevial

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 03:25:58 PM »
Level by level would make the distinctions unclear. Why not make it every 5 levels or so?

So you have Krusk Barbarian Mook(level 1), Krusk Bear-killer(level 6), Krusk the Sacker of Cities(level 11), Genghiz Krusk(level 16), God-of-warPimp-Daddy Krusk(level 20).
Fixed.

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Offline Prime32

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2011, 03:27:29 PM »
Level by level would make the distinctions unclear. Why not make it every 5 levels or so?

So you have Krusk Barbarian Mook(level 1), Krusk Bear-killer(level 6), Krusk the Sacker of Cities(level 11), Genghiz Krusk(level 16), God-of-war Krusk(level 20).
Level-by-level would help new players.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2011, 03:55:06 PM »
I'd say level-by-level, but only in the base details. So, maybe the post would look something like this:



Charger
Witty flavor text

Awesome picture goes here!

Here is the background paragraph on what this PC is, and how it typically plays. You can perhaps explain the base options a bit. So you talk about why the barbarian wants pounce, how and when he'll use frenzy, and how to mitigate the effects of being a Frenzied Berserker.

Build: (in PRE tags)
Level  Class        Feats                       Features
__________________________________________________________________________
1      Barbarian    Power Attack                Pounce, Whriling Frenzy
2      Barbarian    Improved Trip (ACF)
3      Barbarian    Improved Bullrush           Trap Killer
4      Barbarian                                Whriling Frenzy x2
5      Fighter      Leap Attack
6      Fighter      Shock Trooper, xxx
...




Well, that's the basic idea. You'd have  a 20 level build. Maybe you need a must-have magic item list by level too. Anyway, I don't think it'd be that hard to show level by level. What would be hard level by level would be a full stat block, and I think I'd want to avoid that given different point-buys and magic item rules game by game. I don't know. Maybe a full stat block every five levels could work with certain assumptions posted.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2011, 04:31:54 PM »
I was thinking of listing a couple of variant notes after the main build. Like you could note if you can take Flaws you're feats would be this. Likewise while you wouldn't get into which race is better like a Handbook would but it might be noted that a Gnome using a quickrazor works exceptionally well as a rogue.

Talking about what the class does, how it handles, and what to expect (even at various levels) would be great thing to include. I mean, I'm thinking that a player asks their DM about joining and gets told a skill guy would be great. You stop in and read about the Rogue, Factotum, Bard, and whom ever. Get an idea of each and probably settle into which one you'll want to use, you'll have a build suggestion so you're not over whelmed by the 40+ feat suggestions and such in the Handbook(s) which is apparently what is happening now. From there you'd read into the Handbook for further customization, and then if need be post your own thread asking for help.

Offline Mixster

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2011, 05:51:10 PM »
I really like this idea, it would be a great resource for players and DMs alike, so that you could basically just tell people that aren't up for making much of a character to pick one of these.

So talking about the 12 basic classes, we should have a druid which would pretty much just be:
Natural Spell, Fleshraker, Venomfire, Greenbound Summoning are your best friends.

Also other options would probably be Inspire Courage Archer Bard, Frenzied Damage Train Power Attacker, Feat Rogue/Swashbuckler Daring Outlaw Trick, Kobold Blaster Sorcerer.

A quick note should be added, we should mention what "tier" each of these classes belong to, so we don't have to settle for an optimisation level which would just drag out discussions, instead we should just write, if your group is full of monks, don't play this druid. If you group is full of druids, don't play that monk.
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Offline InnaBinder

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 09:34:03 PM »
I'll happily endorse this idea.  What do folks think of when asked about an "iconic debuffer"?  Hexadin of Tyranny?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 11:16:37 PM »
I'll happily endorse this idea.  What do folks think of when asked about an "iconic debuffer"?  Hexadin of Tyranny?
I think nailing down the iconic part may take some effort. Like I don't think Daring Outlaw when someone says Rogue, I think of an assassin disabling traps.

Core's are pretty easy for the most part. The half-classes like Ranger/Paladin can be mimiced and out proformed by the caster classes but if we keep the caster classes from behaving like them then things would work out fine. So here is how I see things.
Barbarian: Barb/FB charger.
Bard: Maximum (Dragonfire) Inspiration, probably a Crusader dip. At least a note on Sublime/JPM if the main build is different.
Cleric: DMM based, probably two well noted variants, evil for undead, and a good themed build.
Druid: Wildshape based but stays full caster and tree hugging hippy.
Fighter: Probably should focus on combat tricks, like spicked Chain Knock-Down/Roiler's Gambit, even Boomerang Daze.
Monk: All I can think of here is the uber hide AFC, then maybe Shiba Protector/Fist Of The Forest.
Paladin: Keep the mount (unmounted charging is the barb), focus on Smite and Sword Of The Arcane Order/Battle Blessing.
Ranger: I really don't know much for the Ranger, should capitalize on Favored Enemy and/or Weapon style?
Rogue: Sneaky assassin that disables traps.
Sorcerer: Probably best to be a nuker.
Wizard: God style, enough said.

Splat books make things a bit harder somewhat. Like the Factotum or Warblade are far enough apart you won't feel overlap, but...
Ninja: What do I do that's uniquely different from the uber hide Monk?
Duskblade: All I am is a warning of what you're Gish shouldn't be like.
Spellthief: You know my class just plain sucks and you're better off using a single 4th level spell to steal spell effects?
Swashbuckler: Double Dare you to combo the Rogue's SA & Fighter's Feats into me, and give up PrCing so you forever suck.
But I'm sure something can be done for them if someone has a good suggestion for them.

Your take on things?

Offline Bozwevial

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 11:49:09 PM »
Spellthief...something with SLAs so it can use those repeatedly?

Ranger might be either a Swift Hunter or a Shooting Star/Sword of the Arcane Order thing.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 07:49:20 AM »
I'll happily endorse this idea.  What do folks think of when asked about an "iconic debuffer"?  Hexadin of Tyranny?
I like the idea of giving builds for these sorts of PCs, too. The Sorcadin is another one that has had a very standard build since 339. I suppose these could be sorted by class and then by concept. This would give you quite a few, though.


I think nailing down the iconic part may take some effort. Like I don't think Daring Outlaw when someone says Rogue, I think of an assassin disabling traps.
I think of Daring Outlaw when someone says Swashbuckler, though. ;) I think this is more that a rogue can be pretty cool on their own, but a swashbuckler cannot.
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Offline veekie

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 08:01:20 AM »
For the monk, I think the psywar/monk would be the most iconic, in function, since it kinda does all the mystical chi things the monk is supposed to have.
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Offline Shining Phoenix

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 10:18:21 AM »
Level by level would make the distinctions unclear. Why not make it every 5 levels or so?

So you have Krusk Barbarian Mook(level 1), Krusk Bear-killer(level 6), Krusk the Sacker of Cities(level 11), Genghiz Krusk(level 16), God-of-war Krusk(level 20).

I suggest adding level 3 as another point to make statblocks at.
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Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 10:51:24 AM »
Level by level would make the distinctions unclear. Why not make it every 5 levels or so?

So you have Krusk Barbarian Mook(level 1), Krusk Bear-killer(level 6), Krusk the Sacker of Cities(level 11), Genghiz Krusk(level 16), God-of-war Krusk(level 20).

I suggest adding level 3 as another point to make statblocks at.

Seconded, and I'd go so far as to say have it replace the level 1.

Offline Shining Phoenix

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 01:57:25 PM »
Seconded, and I'd go so far as to say have it replace the level 1.
I'm not sure about the replacing...
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Offline Basket Burner

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 01:59:18 PM »
Seconded, and I'd go so far as to say have it replace the level 1.
I'm not sure about the replacing...

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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 03:03:38 PM »
I guess it depends on the build. A lot of them don't even resemble what they're supposed to until PrCs start kicking in. If you're not playing a duskblade or battle sorcerer or something, it's hard to actually make a level 1 gish, since so many rely on multiclassing and several PrCs.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »
Ranger would probably be Swift Hunter.

What you could do is go through the handbooks for the different classes and cherry-pick builds from there, then flesh them out in more detail.

Here's an issue, though-- base classes are all well and good, but there are a lot more PrC's and many of them have iconic builds around them too.  Do you add them?

Maybe this should be an entire subforum, with threads dedicated to each class or technique and then people can contribute builds to the Iconic Build Compendium.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Iconic Examples?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 03:24:47 PM »
I guess it depends on the build. A lot of them don't even resemble what they're supposed to until PrCs start kicking in. If you're not playing a duskblade or battle sorcerer or something, it's hard to actually make a level 1 gish, since so many rely on multiclassing and several PrCs.
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