Author Topic: Brainstorming  (Read 11737 times)

Offline professorgear

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Brainstorming
« on: July 16, 2013, 10:34:32 PM »
Hey Tyson, I don't know if you want to subdivide this forum very much, so for now I'm just making one thread for all our brainstorming. I don't think we'll do so much that we need more than one thread. Anyways, just wanted to get the ball rolling, I'll probably post some stuff later.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 11:41:17 PM »
Yeah, I liked the Rifts alignments a lot better than D&D, although due to being tied to planes which have opposites on the "Great Wheel", the D&D ones make a certain sense beyond their character descriptions... If you dropped that part of the cosmology (which is fairly easy), you could easily replace them, though.
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Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 01:32:04 AM »
Ya phae idk what we are going to do about that part of it..

josh here is the http://pyromancers.com/ link for you  :D

Ok so I found this on Alignments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(role-playing_games)  It is a rundown of pretty much all the RPG's alignment systems. Although at times its vague, and not 100% correct. lololll but its good for a general reference

I think before we get into alignment detail to much we need to kind of get a rough idea of the setting. now we are thinking of the multiple world setting.. and then mainly running the adventure in forgotten realms right? or were we going to retool the waterdeep stuff for a city that we make our selves?

I could go either way.. it definitely is faster to use the already made stuff, and adapt around it. But we are planning on working on this for quite awhile anyways, and if we are going to try incorporate a lot of those things we talked about it might be easier to ditch a good chunk of the pre-existing stuff.
 
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Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 01:47:31 AM »
Or we could modify my High Arcana setting a bit. Since that was suppose to take place within one giant city. Its broke down into many factions. It was created by a dark god thats on the planet.
(click to show/hide)

There is a bunch more info... here is the original link back on the old boards. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=170.0  sir.percival took it over after i took a break. he has a more recent version here on the boards also.

it's basically a big city, where monsters are allowed as long as they behave. certain magic is outlawed, there is vast underground ruins that in theory are bottomless. as i said already much of the city is broke up into powerful factions that control everything.

if we used this as a tie in with out multiple worlds idea. we could say that this world, when it banished the gods it threw off the balance or something idk. but that could be a reason why the players are sent there, to help restore the balance and banish the god from the prime?
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 01:58:23 AM »
Just for full disclosure, I was once a philosophy major, and I never got that fully out of my system. If I start to lecture, bonk me over the head, figuratively. But anyways, as a philosopher, I think the most important thing to deal with as soon as possible is to be clear with what we want to accomplish in this game. I'm very intentional in my creative process, and I try to infuse meaning into everything I write. I'm not C.S. Lewis who began writing the Chronicles from the simple image in his head of a lamp post in a forest. When I start something, I already have the goal in mind.

So, as it's late and I'm tired, I can't think of all the different threads I wanted to pull together in this game, but I'll list some of them.

1. This game is a game. Goal numero uno is just to have fun. If any other rules break this rule, they're wrong. In my mind, D&D is designed as a player-centric game. In other games where there are fewer rules, the omnipotence of the DM is more oppressive. In D&D, the rules protect the player more than anything else. In this sense, I'm more interested in character development and player options than I am in overarching plot-lines and DM world-building. The latter two are still significant, but characters can break plot-lines (along with everything else, lol). I think the focus should be on character decisions and how they transform a character. Almost an interior plot-line. Because I like D&D's player-centric tradition, I try to include in Waterdeep almost every player option imaginable, though with obstructed access (players overcoming these obstructions make for good plots). In this vein, all the magical locations from complete scoundrel are found there. Numerous epic level NPCs who are ready to help PCs abide in the city. Magic and mundane item crafters are willing to work for hire. Associations, guilds, networks, allies, and the whole lot can be found in the city. As long as it's even slightly practical, I try to include a player option in the city.

2. This game should still try to be intellectually serious as much as possible. Players should not receive an alignment shift toward evil when they've done nothing wrong. The origin story for elves should not be an arcane accident resulting from experimenting with a whoopee-cushion. These are obvious, but on a smaller level I like my worlds to be built like a tapestry. It is extremely detailed, but every detail seems unimportant by itself. It's not till you see the whole picture that you realize the details account for a richness that wouldn't be there otherwise. So I like my game to be thoroughly thought out. I accept that every fictional world will have a host of contradictions, especially a game world. These contradictions will even be at the foundation that we build the rest of the setting on. This is just something we have to live with, but I don't think it means we can't make interesting philosophical points with our world or that it won't be believable.

After goals, I think it's important to list our areas of expertise and maybe list more what we would want to focus on or would enjoy doing more. That's not to say we don't each have a say in the whole process, but for instance I'm not much of an artist. However, I am very interested in cosmology and history. I also understand mechanical aspects of the game rather well, I think.

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 02:41:31 AM »
Haha.. yes I know your love of text walls. But thats alright.
I agree completely rule #1 is have fun. You probably know that already though  :devil

Lets see.. where to start. Well.. you know I'm an impulsive person. My wife tells me I have the attention span of a 5 year old, which you've witnessed while Matt was DMing  :D . The reason why I bring these up is so you know the method to my madness. The way I design my campaigns are probably erratic to most people. I tend to jump around a lot when planning. I usually get inspiration in bursts, where I will end up working on 2 or 3 ideas at the same time.
I usually have one main goal or story thats going on in the game. But I also present a lot of other options for players to follow. I try not to overplan how I want to adventure to go in a gaming session. I will have certain key points, or events that I can just add in as needed usually.

Like you, I like everything to be very detailed. I'm a stickler for details.. but only in certain areas. Honestly I don't care to flesh out a pantheon. But as you said, in Waterdeep you tried to include every player option possible. Well thats exactly what I was going for with the high arcana setting. A good story and plot will drive character actions. Thats why, same as you, I'm interested in the character creation process. I really love to use things from the characters. Find a way to tie everyone in. Basically I try and build the campaign around the players, using my story idea. Thats why I typically DM games that have a definite end. I like a start, and a conclusion.

I think that awesome NPC's are key to a fun, and memorable game. That doesn't mean every npc has to be 100% fleshed out and have some sort of cool niche. But I always include interesting NPC's along with the mundane ones. They can really help maintain a mood your trying to achieve.

I think that between our two styles everything should fill in nicely.

edit: oh i was going to say up there somewhere, that in order to build a really fleshed out character they will need some sort of base idea of the setting know what i mean? thats why at the moment thats kind of what i was focusing on
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 02:50:47 AM by dna1 »
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 10:53:30 AM »
Just FYI, if I ever sound rude, I apologize in advance. I certainly never mean to make any kind of remarks with double-meanings or hidden animosity. I am, however, very forward. Hopefully any criticisms from me don't offend, because I certainly would appreciate criticism in return.

That being said, there's something I never much cared for about the High Arcana setting, (1) because it felt constricting as a player and (2) because it didn't seem logical. However, there may be a very good behind-the-scenes reason why you did it as a DM, Tyson. I am speaking of the limiting and licensing of magic. Was there something you were trying to accomplish with that?

Seeing as your High Arcana campaign was the campaign you started creating on your own, I'm guessing that at least at the time it was your ideal campaign. So I'm guessing you've already integrated your favorite features of Ravenloft into the setting, but if there's something from Ravenloft you haven't but want to add, let me know

I think it's really cool BTW that effectively the two campaigns me and you tried to create before were intensely urban campaigns, so our new hybrid I think will come together quite nicely. I think the feel of Waterdeep can definitely be like your Gratis. I'm not sure how practical some of the history is, however. If I remember your setting correctly (I haven't had the time to reread it fully), the gods had been banished or something. It might be very difficult indeed to accomplish anything like that in a traditional D&D setting like Faerun. I don't know, it might be workable though. Was there something you were trying to accomplish with that historical timeline?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 10:58:30 AM by professorgear »

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »
Nah you didn't come off as rude don't worry about it.

The magic-licensing thing came about because of a few things. One of the main inspirations I had for the high arcana game was the harry potter series. That being said, I liked the idea of a all casters game. Not necessarily straight wizard builds, but any caster build including just multi-class dips.

Alright so, the reasons for the licensing is that
1) I liked the idea of certain types of magic being outlawed. Such as charm effects or anything harmful. In a major city, it's not to far of a stretch for some restrictions to be in place regarding magic. I'm sure the town guard wouldn't take kindly to a Sorc who charmed everyone into giving them items for free, then said merchant ran and told the constable etc etc.
We don't have to use that... but it made since for my campaign setting.
2) It was mainly a plot driver. In this setting, everyone was trying to and join the elder magi, and participate in the High Arcana games. The general theme of the game was that all these casters, are trying to escape the "ghetto" and grime of living as a low class citizen, and get up into the upper echelons of society.

So that part of the setting, was really more for motivation and plot drive. Since everyone was participating in the high arcana games, they all had "trinkets" and were licensed anyways. So in reality it didn't have much of an impact.

Actually that game was very un-ravenloft. The things I have taken away from all my ravenloft games is mood building, and setting a tone that I want the players to feel. Other than that I didn't incorporate anything from RL into the Gratis setting.

All that being said, I'm totally willing to retool/refluff what ever we need.
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 10:33:35 PM »
Ok, so I think I'm getting a sense for things, let me know if I'm right. You like settings that by their nature provide an overarching quest. Like if you're in Ravenloft, by definition you're trying to get out. Likewise, if you're a mage in Grati, by definition you're trying to become one of the elder magi. Of course, the problem with these situations is once you succeed, your adventuring really does come to an end. If a dark lord escapes Ravenloft, his domain collapses. If you become an elder magi, you're now on top of the world.

If you want to do this with Waterdeep, it could be difficult as I had no specific end-point in mind, as you know. I was thinking less like a novel and more like a comic strip, which is to say episodic. I do want to get into some epic levels with this campaign, but it doesn't need to be far. The campaign could have an overarching quest and then end in epic levels, with following campaigns happening in the world after the first campaign. If we don't come up with an overarching plotline, we can just suggest that players retire their characters when their interior plotlines have reached a resolution, idk.

I do have an apocalypse in mind for my world, as I think every world should. That's not to say it's the actual end of the world, there's just some force that threatens to end the world. In this case it's the entire illithid race, and it's not so much "end" the world as "ensalve" or "eat" the world. But as I mentioned above, a party that could nullify the threat of the entire illithid race would pretty much have nothing left to do.

Something I liked about what you said though was that certain magic in the city could make a DM's life hard if left unrestricted, like enchantments when used to rob a merchant. We could use a mythal in Waterdeep, which can block specified spells. There are actually a couple mythals already in Waterdeep.

Concerning alignment, I think a lot of the confusion in the D&D system stems from the original alignment layout. As I recall, there originally was no good and evil axis, just a lawful and chaotic axis. I think like humans were lawful and elves were chaotic and so on. I think problems arose when they simply tacked on an additional alignment axis rather than revising the whole thing.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 05:52:38 PM by professorgear »

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 02:35:29 AM »
Ok, so I think I'm getting a sense for things, let me know if I'm right. You like settings that by their nature provide an overarching quest. Like if you're in Ravenloft, by definition you're trying to get out. Likewise, if you're a mage in Grati, by definition you're trying to become one of the elder magi. Of course, the problem with these situations is once you succeed, your adventuring really does come to an end. If a dark lord escapes Ravenloft, his domain collapses. If you become an elder magi, you're now on top of the world.

If you want to do this with Waterdeep, it could be difficult as I had no specific end-point in mind, as you know. I was thinking less like a novel and more like a comic strip, which is to say episodic. I do want to get into some epic levels with this campaign, but it doesn't need to be far. The campaign could have an overarching quest and then end in epic levels, with following campaigns happening in the world after the first campaign. If we don't come up with an overarching plotline, we can just suggest that players retire their characters when their interior plotlines have reached a resolution, idk.

I hadn't really thought of it like that, but you're totally right. I think that's why I always plan a end to my games. Because once the goal is reached its like.. now what?
I'm pretty sure I've told you one of the reasons I'm going to the art institute is because I want to make my own comic someday. I owned boxes upon boxes of comics. So I've thought a lot about how I would do it.
I do love comics. And there are lots of good long running tv series, or cartoons with multiple story arcs. But in general I think that most of the best ones have endings. Because they can follow the basics of writing a classic epic. There is a certain structure. Know what I mean? For example, some of the best x-men stuff was in the "Age of Apocalypse" story arcs. It was an alternate timeline, where they were able to use a ending, and was one of the most successful arcs ever done.

Some of the weak points to a "never ending" cartoon, comic, tv show, what ever, are:
Certain people who are central to the story never die(ie: spiderman?wolverine?). Theres things that can't be done, because it will mess up, or end the never ending story line(naruto ever actually rescuing sasuke). There ends up being more "filler". After awhile it turns into a dragonball z, bleach type scenario. Where you just save the world from one bad guy after the next, each one being bigger and badder than the last. Which can be fun, but can also boarder ridiculous if not done right.


That being said..
We could make a long running campaign. Break it down into chapters, like you said one story arch that encompasses the entire length of the game. Like some looming goal in the background, while we build the players up. I would just basically think of it like mini-campaigns. Chapter 1, levels 1-3. Chapter 2, levels 3-6  etc etc etc. I've actually never played into a epic game before, but I'm not opposed to it.


I guess what I'm trying to say with all that argle-bargle above is that we need to plan it like a Novel instead of something that never ends. Even if we plan it as a Novel that runs into the epic levels, thats fine. But lets face it, even if we plan it to never end, once the PC's hit a certain level you are going to be forced to start over in way or another. You can only plan so much when your group is bitch slapping gods before breakfast.
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2013, 10:42:18 AM »
lol, bitch-slapping gods before breakfast.

I guess maybe I need to clarify something. I think it would be OK to have an overarching plotline for this game, but I'm not sure I'd have that overarching plotline attached to the setting. So let's say these players had an overarching plotline that got them to level 25 and then we retired their characters. Then a new game could be brought into this persistent world. New characters would have to deal with the consequences of decisions made by previous characters (which as epic level characters would be pretty substantial).

If the overarching plotline and setting had to be tied together, I would probably make it a save-the-world-against-the-illithid-apocalypse game. But I think I'd rather have the overarching plotline divorced from the setting, that way the setting can be persistent.

Mind, there could be other save-the-world scenarios in the same setting. For instance, other elder evils that want to eat/destroy the world. They simply aren't as grave a threat as the illithids.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 06:19:02 AM by professorgear »

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2013, 12:23:02 AM »
Ahh ok I get it. Ya that sounds good. But ya.. lol I'm sure Zane has told you his storys of his epic games with Jordan. I just don't want to go that far into epic  :lol


Hmm so where to start?

I guess character creation, and deciding if we are going to try this multiple worlds thing. I already started kinda breaking it down in my mind..
The Game, we want most of it to take place in Waterdeep or a city like it. So I'm thinking about how you said cover every option a player could want to do. So I started thinking about other RPGs, like in shadowrun everygame has a job contact. Or in whitewolf how you can spend background points to be rich, famous, start with some territory etc etc etc. Do we want to add in anything like this?
I don't know if you looked over the factions I did in Gratis, but I think that could be a good idea to incorporate into the character building idea. We could design certain elements in the game that pertain to each players faction/guild/noble house what ever...?  Idk..

The setting. Incorporate the multiple worlds thing? Levels 1-3 would be on each players own world. DMing in a 1-on-1 type game. Then bring everyone together and run the main adventure where ever the Game takes place. We could add in that end of time type Arena we were talking about?

Or alternatively.. not use the multiple worlds idea, and just fit everything into Waterdeep.

Thoughts?
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2013, 02:46:00 AM »
I like the starting campaign on different worlds idea. Of course some people will actually come from the FR campaign setting, so their intro may not be as much fun, but as I've already said I think certain advantages should be given to those who don't use homebrew.

If you want a kind of aesthetic feel for this game, I think I'm leaning most towards Chrono Trigger and Fables (which sadly you haven't but absolutely must read). That's just if you want input, I'm submissive to your lead on the aesthetics.

But if you want further input, this game probably will have some important connection to the plane of shadow, as I've mentioned, because that's where universes "touch" so to speak in all the D&D multiverse cosmologies.

For my game world, it was originally just a universe, not a multiverse. But the god who created it designed the laws of magic in such a way that they could be manipulated to spawn additional universes. Specifically, he designed the laws of magic to allow reverse time travel. And as any sane person, I think the only logical way to handle reverse time travel is the star trek way - a new timeline, or in fact a new universe, is spawned.

So basically at some point in my universe's ancient past, a mage reached great power and invented the reverse time travel spell (in fact just discovered some of the laws of magic). Which spawned the first new universe. I'm thinking this results in some kind of instability or chain reaction that continues to spawn more universes at an exponential rate, IDK, I haven't thought about that much. I was also thinking that this mage only attained such height of power because he managed to first transform himself into a Living Wish (Living Spell template applied to Wish spell). This probably ties into the whole chain reaction thing. I'm thinking he might actually be a Living Shadow Wish (as their is a shadow magic counterpart to every magic spell). Anyways, these are just some of the thoughts I have.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 02:47:43 AM by professorgear »

Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2013, 02:22:32 AM »
OMG, I just had the grooviest freakin brainwave ever.

I've been trying to figure out for some time how Jeriah Chronos would figure into my game, and I think I've solved that puzzle. Jeriah Chronos is a name I stumbled upon while researching the Forgotten Realms. There is hardly any published material on him. Pretty much all that is known is that he was a Netherese wizard (think Zeal from Chrono Trigger) called by the Netherese simply "the Chronomancer." He died centuries ago in a war defending the people of Illusk. He seemed far too mysterious and enigmatic a character for me to just leave him alone - he had to be included in my game. At first I thought he would have just faked his death like any great wizard. But then I realized, "He's a chronomancer." Just because he died hundreds of years ago doesn't mean he isn't still alive in the present when my game occurs. As a time traveler, he could have traveled into his future (our present) and then traveled back to meet his doom. This of course brings all the interesting possibilities of him being a PC-discoverable NPC. But more importantly, it facilitates a solution to the puzzle of why a multitude of universes come into existence in our multiverse.

I'm thinking that Jeriah Chronos invented time travel because he had some huge regret in his life. I'm thinking maybe he was experiment with magic and accidentally killed his sister or something. So he wants to go back in time and prevent that from happening. Only problem is, when he goes back in time, he never actually stops his original sister from dying, he just initiates a new timeline. And he never feels at home in the new timeline because there's already a Jeriah Chronos who lives in that timeline. He becomes aware of the fact that he is in fact powerless to save his sister. You may ask why she can't be resurrected, but it could be the effects of a disintegrate spell. Or perhaps even more likely, Jeriah Chronos was just unwilling to use divine magic as he hates the gods.

Once he's become severely pissed off at the situation, he tries to find someone who's responsible (and not himself). There is no trace in the multiverse of the being that created the multiverse (basically the DM). Jeriah Chronos nevertheless upon seeing creation concludes that there must be a creator. He goes as far back in time as possible, to the very beginning of this world's existence. Rather foolishly, he tries to see if the creator is still there or left any sign of his presence. He tries to further divine whatever he can about the creator by examining and experimenting with the laws of reality in this nascent world. Again and again he experiments with the natural and supernatural laws that govern the world. Eventually, upon learning very little about this elusive and hateful creator, he gives up. But having experimented so many times, he caused a multitude of worlds to spin-off from his own.

Of course, you may ask how a mere chronomancer got enough power to fiddle with the laws of reality, but he had someone to help him. He found a powerful witch who was equally interested in discovering the true nature of the world. Using a ritual, he transformed her into a Living Wish spell. So she was with him when he traveled back to the creation of the world to examine and experiment. Really, it was she who did all the experimenting while he examined.

I'm thinking her existence will also explain the shadow weave, the plane of shadow, and why all planes connect at the plane of shadow. I'm thinking that it took so much magic to create her that basically a deficit of magic, or antimagic, or shadow magic was produced. In fact, she is surrounded by a dead magic zone that empowers shadow magic. So things she interacts with are kind of suffused with shadow magic. This would also explain why all the alternate/parallel universes connect through the plane of shadow. When she spun these universes off the main timeline they were kind of suffused with shadow magic.

Anyways, these are just some rough ideas I have right now, could still use a lot of revision.

BTW, just have to post this awesome music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtKCt8Afk9s
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 04:51:18 AM by professorgear »

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 01:16:25 PM »
Very cool. I'm at the coast, on my phone so this won't be a full reply. But I like it. It almost reminds me of like string theory/multiverse theory worked out into end terms. We can definitely run with that.
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Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2013, 12:39:01 AM »
Alright I'm totally back now.

As I said in my last post, I do like the idea of adding Jeriah Chronos to the game. I don't like the name Jeriah much.. but ohwell  :P
I'm sure we can come up with some goodness for him.

K so the way I'm best at working is if I just start compiling and posting stuff. Then I go back through and work on stuff randomly and fix it all up and what not. So I'm interested in starting to put things down, thats why I was asking the general questions a few posts ago.
The multiverse thing I also like, and I think I will move forward on that. I'm going to make some threads and just start posting things, including pics probably.

Now I assume that when we run this it will be with like John, Zane, Julian, possibly andrew? Try go get jordan to jump in on this one? Possibly invite someone from the boards here?
But if we create this correctly, based off some of the things we talked about in PM's, we should be both getting some playtime in as well. I mean obviously I intend to play and co-dm, but there should be times when You can play as well. Such as our end of time Colosseum, or maybe one of the players personal worlds?
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Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2013, 12:46:22 AM »
Oh yea one more thing, IDK what you have going for the Waterdeep stuff yet. You should start posting some of that stuff you want input on. I assume you're not worried about me knowing plot stuff and still playing... I'm pretty sure you know my RPing > Metagame knowledge at all times  :devil

Also while I'm thinking of Waterdeep, were you opposed to adding in extra stuff for players such as gangs/factions/guilds type of stuff? I want to start brainstorming and posting some waterdeep stuff haha.
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2013, 05:22:50 AM »
Yeah, so I sent you two links via yahoo mail previously. One was for a google docs folder and the other was for a google docs file. A lot of my stuff on Waterdeep is scattered across many files and folders. The problem I have is it's all written in a shorthand only I would understand, lol. So I'll probably need to go through and edit some of it. Of course, some of it's only in my head. Anyways, it might be easier if we have something like google docs to share through.

What is your computer situation at the moment? I remember you saying you were using school for internet, but it's the summer now. What kind of browser and computer capabilities can I expect you to have? Something I'd like to address as soon as you get the chance is a question regarding a file I want to use, which can be downloaded here: http://www.candlekeep.com/downloads/ez_waterdeep.zip. This is an amazing map of Waterdeep, accurate down to a 5 foot grid. Since you have the software, I'd like to know if you can edit/manipulate the layers. I'm thinking I might need them in JPG form, IDK. It would be brilliant if we could just use this map for an entire map of our gameworld basically with minimal effort in mapmaking. For important areas we can paint over much more pleasing scenery. I know Roll20 at least lets you upload a JPEG as a map foundation of almost any size. It also lets you upload PDFs, but this one is too big.

In your last post you mentioned previous questions; that wasn't you hinting that I've left some unanswered, was it? I thought I got them all, but I could be wrong.

Concerning worlds, I think John's point was legitimately good. Building worlds based off of our own psyche's doesn't make sense in a game where repairing those psyches isn't central (like what happened in Nick's TX game). I mean, those worlds could still exist, but I really can't think of any reason they would ever be explored in game by the central characters. Therefore, I wouldn't want to do it in my game. That being said, there are at least two worlds we could invite players to create. They can create their colosseum world. This may look like what would have been their psyche world, but it still doesn't really matter. PCs in this world won't be exploring the psyche world, they'll just be fighting one another. The other world(s) would be origin world(s) for their characters.

Of course, with this being a collaborative game between you and me and with players being invited to build their own worlds, there are some interesting questions about players becoming DMs and vice versa. I'm open to suggestions.

So I guess I should just let you know some of the central themes of this game world. There is the time travel aspect which sets up the existence of the multiverse, the connection of parallel dimensions, and the variety of reality in the game. Something which I've mentioned in passing is the existence of a potential apocalypse. Unlike Zane with Dragons, I've not just fixated on illithids because I like them. If you've skimmed a book like Elder Evils, you may be wondering why out of all the various potential end-times causes I settled on the illithids. Partly, because it just makes sense. Even the most powerful elder evil is only one being. One being is not actually all that hard to defeat for an epic party. The illithid, however, are an entire extremely advanced race. Secondly, the illithid are actually from a future where they succeeded in enslaving the world, which was basically that world's end. I've actually worked a lot on this end-times business. I've incorporated some stuff from the Age of Worms adventure path from Dungeon Magazine. Kyuss as you may know is an elder evil who threatens to turn all the world into worm food. The interesting thing about worms of Kyuss is that they kill a person (and later zombify them) by first eating their brains. Basically, the first worm of Kyuss was made by a mad spellweaver named Ma'kar who wanted to destroy the illithid at any cost, even if it meant destroying the world he was originally trying to protect. And an undead with its brains already eaten is basically an illithid's worst nightmare. There's no food left in the skull and the creature which threatens them is immune to telepathy. In Lords of Madness, the illithids flee the future to find refuge in the past because of some terrible evil that befalls even their great civilization. My interpretation of this is that Ma'kar's century-spanning plot eventually worked. Kyuss turned the world into wormfood, starving the illithid and even threatening them. But that was just the future of one universe in the multiverse. And even then Kyuss could possible be stopped (though unlikely if he got so far). In any event, an end game campaign in my world would look something like trying to destroy the illithid race, which would probably involve killing some central elder brain. Note, I don't really think that campaign would ever actually be played.

Lol, it's late, I just typed all that, and I don't really remember why. I guess I was just trying to inform you of the setting.

I'm very much open "to adding in extra stuff for players such as gangs/factions/guilds type of stuff." I don't recall, was there stuff like this from Imperium you wanted to add? Mind, there's a lot of stuff already in Waterdeep, so you may want to modify rather than add, but whatever.

Having said all the stuff earlier about end-times, there can still be an overarching plot for this particular game (you know, from levels 1-25 or whatever we decide). There are already three campaigns specifically published for Waterdeep: Expedition to Undermountain (levels 1-10), The Dragon's Legacy (level 13), and Vampires of Waterdeep (Dungeon Magazine 126-128, levels 13-20). We can use all, some, or none of these. If it was left to me, I'd probably use these (as long as they're not crap - I haven't read them yet), just because I'm lazy. But if you want to come up with different mini-campaigns, that's fine. I could certainly use your help coming up with an overarching campaign.

Offline dna1

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2013, 01:57:25 PM »
Ya for some reason I was having trouble accessing the google docs. Currently I'm hosting the internet off of my phone, so I shouldn't do many downloads/uploads. I will get that map you linked probably later today or tomorrow when I pilfer someones net.
But yea I can edit it, break it into parts or do what ever we need to. None of that should be a problem really.

I like ilithids.. I actually had planned a big Dark Elf campaign I never got to run years and years ago when I was in High School that focused on the ilithid pretty heavily. But ya I think the mind flayers are a great campaign driving bad guy. Should work out just fine...


lol... you type all your notes in short hand? Now does that mean like your own code, or are you just taking out vowels and stuff? Well.. you could just x-fer over some stuff that you particularly want help with.
I'm not opposed to using pre-made campaigns, there is some really well made ones out there. But I think we should customize them a lot, and also add in a ton of our own stuff.
I like the idea of breaking it down into chapters.. Levels 1-4, 4-6, 10-13 etc. Like mini-campaigns that help drive the players towards our end goal. We can start dropping little hints way early.. Like I did with the head of Vecna stuff. hhahaah


Alright I think I'm starting to get a good idea of the setting here. I agree with Johns point also, we don't really need to have the players build there own worlds with all that extra stuff since it wont really play into the game at all.
So why don't we just make like 2-4 extra worlds that are tied into the ilithid timeline somewhere. Then the players could choose which one they come from?
Or.. not even really craft a entire world actually. Just decide on a few different campaign settings that we want to allow access to and then add those into the game as options to start from for the levels 1-4 thing. Know what I mean?
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Offline professorgear

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Re: Brainstorming
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2013, 03:03:45 PM »
Some more stuff you should know. The illithids I think are basically going to come from a future Greyhawk setting. They come from the original Greyhawk setting. Part of the Greyhawk setting is actually this problem of magic weakening and draining away. Some philosophize that the more mages use magic, the more it's used-up, so to speak. Boccob, who as I recall can time travel, never finds the solution to this problem. I was going to have it be a result of the fundamental supernatural laws Greyhawk was built on when Jeriah Chronos initiated its timeline. It might have something to do with Greyhawk not having a weave which holds magic together. In any event, magic disappears in Greyhawk's future, and this allows for the rise of technology. Eventually, psionics also develops, as there is still supernatural power concentrated in the individual soul even if Greyhawk doesn't have a weave. This results in at least one serious change with my game from published material - my illithids are not at all sorcerous. They are all psions or martial types. I always thought it ruined the flavor to not have them be psions anyways. In any event, one additional major reason for why they're so threatening is because they reached their power level only on psionics. Now they've gone to the past and to other worlds entirely where magic still/always functions. If they had mastery over psionics and the various forms of magic, they would be incredibly powerful. There is a league of individuals trying to oppose the illithids, largely composed of spellweavers, and needless to say one of their main objectives so far has been to keep the illithids far away from learning any magic. Up to this point, they've been mostly successful. But the occasional multiclassed illithid wizard can be found.

The illithids traveling back in time was how psionics and advanced and modern technology were introduced into our timeline. Gnomes claim to have invented some advanced technology of their own, but for the most part they've just been lying to people with their superior illusion magic, lol. To their credit, though, the gnomes have been the best reverse engineers for mass producing advanced technology. The illithids would have rather kept this unique power sources to themselves, but necessity has forced them to trade with the drow and others, so a fair bit has disbursed to the general population. Mind, technology is still rare enough that it's expensive (as it should be, because it's generally more powerful) and that it doesn't change the essential high fantasy setting. So it's like high fantasy infused with Final Fantasy.

Concerning the name Jeriah, I agree it doesn't have the greatest sound. That's simply his parent-given name recorded in the history books. It means "taught by God" which I thought was rather appropriate. We could say for that reason, and because it is a humble name, that he always hated that name and took simply to calling himself Chronos. In most ancient cultures, individuals only had first names. At most you would have a first name and then "of [your city]." Like "Josh of Vancouver." So Jeriah may have been named Jeriah Chronos by his Netherese colleagues to distinguish him from other Jeriahs. But he may have preferred another name entirely, or later he may take on another name entirely for the sake of anonymity. Anyways, open to input there.

When I say my notes are in short hand, I simply mean there are a lot of incomplete sentences and references to things only I understand. I'm not Leonardo da Vinci, lol.

What I was hoping to achieve with the map is to have all the layers fused into one jpeg except the sewer tunnels and stories 2 and up. Obviously, from a bird's eye view, we can only see one level at a time, so I want that to be the ground level to start with. I would still like to see all the sewer access points if possible, but if that involves tediously separating them from the sewer PDF layer, then don't worry about it. I would like to have all the other label layers though. Obviously these will be painted away before players can see them, but while we're still building the map it would be nice to have them around so we know what areas need to be populated with artwork and what kind of artwork we should be using.

So, with what I've said above, I was intending on granting access to all officially published campaign settings and mechanics, including d20 Modern, d20 Future, and Pathfinder, in all mediums - books, magazines, and web. The easiest stuff to access is stuff from the core books and the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. OP things and things from other settings are harder to find, but they're still not considered homebrew.

So how I was thinking of handling homebrew is, you decide at character creation whether you'll use homebrew material or not (either way we'll have to give it the clear, of course). If you don't use homebrew, you gain another benefit instead. I was thinking that would be special knowledge. Maybe one item of special knowledge per level - that might be too much though, IDK yet. What I mean by special knowledge is a way to bypass knowledge checks to get access to OP stuff. In other words, normally you would need a high knowledge check to know the Wizard's College is experimenting on students. But if the DM writes into your story that one day you noticed said experiments while walking along, then you have the knowledge in spite of a check. So we might put players in libraries and have them luckily read exactly the right book for their characters or whatever. Then they know how to become a circle mage or something.

You're allowed to populate some of these other worlds if you want, but I was going to focus on the main timeline in Faerun and leave the other players to homebrew worlds if they liked.

So I suppose part of what's needed at this point is the decision to go or not ahead with these premade campaigns. That would require me to read them though, lol. I'm so cramped for time ATM. I might be able to read them in a couple weeks, but no sooner. They obviously won't already have an overarching quest, so we'll still need to figure that out. But it's hard to figure that out without know what they are about.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 03:08:07 PM by professorgear »