Author Topic: Emulating a Stricter Realism  (Read 4770 times)

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Emulating a Stricter Realism
« on: December 05, 2012, 10:26:11 PM »
I have played Dungeons and Dragons for a good portion of my life and for a few months now I've developed something of an obsession with creating a much more realistic set of rules than most rpg's use. I'd like to construct something of the perfect system, perfect of course being a subjective term here.

I have spent plenty of time trying to revamp the D&D 3.5 system because it is what I know best and because I feel it contains the greatest amount of options and customization, but recently decided I need to create a separate system to achieve everything that I want. At first I tried switching to a skill based system because I've seen the realism that creates in a game, but in a world full of magic and supernatural, as well as extraordinary, abilities a level based system just felt right. That being said I have made significant changes to what leveling actually grants a player.

I would love to use this topic as a brainstorming area and place to post everything that I am working on or have completed for public thought/speculation. By all means if anyone has an idea about how to make the system closer to the real world (or a real world that has magic anyways) please share. The goal here is to create the most simulationistic (realistic with fantasy aspects) and customization friendly system possible. And without further adu:

What I have so far:
Several base classes that later expand
Bell curves on most variables (creating a much more "average" world)
Race and Ability overhauls (No more racial HD)
Complete racial permeability (17 races so far, which all can generate half-breeds with each other)
Many templates
New hit points system (Based off of vitality and wound point system; hit points DO NOT increase with level)
To hit and damage recalculations (creating slow exponential advances; damage limits based on size)
New skill system
New awareness system
New speed system (everyone has a speed rating, which adds up repeatedly allowing for some characters to act more often then others)
New defenses system (having separate defense capabilities against different types of attacks)
Pages of traits that alter character capabilities and power level

In Progress:
Advanced classes
Feats system
Spellcasting system
Psionics system
Monster races

Planned:

I will begin listing things I have done below, and if it seems like interest is picking up I'll list more.


Bell Curve Idea:
All die rolls (except for percentage) will use only six siders. This creates a higher minimum, sometimes an altered maximum, and higher chance of rolling a number towards the middle. For instance, whenever a d12 needed to be rolled previously (for damage on larger weapons and such) now 2d6 will be rolled. This makes the minimum roll 2 while the maximum roll stays at 12. There is however only a 2.8% chance of rolling the minimum or the maximum, where on a d12 there is an 8.3% chance. There is a 16.7% chance to roll the median in the new system, while on a d12 there is still an 8.3%. This creates a much more likely average roll, decreasing some uncertainty and making big or small rolls more exciting. Below is a list of dice changes.

(click to show/hide)

Ability Overhaul:
Ability scores are now more beneficial because of the wider range of things they affect. For instance a character's speed factor is found by taking the square root of the character's dexterity score (some races and class abilities can still directly affect the speed factor however).

Abilty Scores:
There are six ability scores just as in D&D. Each character has a strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma score; however, there are no ability modifiers. Characters use their entire ability score in any necessary calculations.

Hit Point System:
Hit points are now put into two relatively unchanging groups, wound points and vitality points.
  • Wound points measure a character's minor damage threshold. This means a character can take damage equal to their wound points before taking lasting damage. Every character has wound points equal tho their constitution score (or in the case of unliving beings their strength score plus their charisma score). Wound points are recovered naturally and are generally easy to heal.
  • Vitality points measure a character's major damage threshold. This means any damage applied to a character's vitality points are lasting, and quite difficult to recover, but a character only takes vitality damage when they have run out of wound points or when a critical hit is scored against them. Each character has vitality points equal to half of their wound points. Vitality damage must be treated to be healed.

Speed System:
Each character has their own speed factor. This is found, as previously stated, by taking the square root of a character's dexterity score, rounded down, with modifications based on traits and specific character abilities. Each character would then add their speed factor repeatedly until someone got to ten, in which case that character takes a turn. This means that characters with high speed factors will get to act more often than those that do not, but the speed factor gets more and more difficult to increase as it grows. For instance, the average human with dexterity 10 has a speed factor of 3, a dexterity of 16 is needed to achieve a speed factor of 4, a dexterity of 25 is needed for a speed factor of 5, and a dexterity of 36 is needed for a speed factor of 6.

Races:

Human:
(click to show/hide)

Dwarf:
(click to show/hide)

Elf:
(click to show/hide)

Orc:
(click to show/hide)

Gnoll:
(click to show/hide)

Goblin:
(click to show/hide)

Hagspawn:
(click to show/hide)

Satyr:

Changeling:

Naga:

Dravec:

Pureblood:

Aetherius:

Akuma:

Ogre:

Titan:

Evolved:
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:46:36 PM by Vampireshado »
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline littha

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2952
  • +1 Holy Muffin
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 10:52:49 PM »
Quote
most realistic

Quote
In Progress:
Advanced classes
Feats system
Spellcasting system
Psionics system
Monster race
s

Realistic?

Offline FlaminCows

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • Push that button. Doo eeet.
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 11:06:29 PM »
You can have magic in a realistic system, Littha. In fact, how realistic a system is has absolutely nothing to do with how much magic is in its setting. What Shad here wants is a game where you can play an ordinary person in a fantasy world, as well as one that includes more detailed mechanics for mundane tasks. Magic systems can be made more realistic too, by the way, by making its mechanics less abstract.

I know you don't mean to offend, but it is really grating when people dismiss realism just because there's magic.

Offline littha

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2952
  • +1 Holy Muffin
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 11:12:42 PM »
I know you don't mean to offend, but it is really grating when people dismiss realism just because there's magic.


It grates on me when people use Realistic when they really mean Simulationist in relation to games. A realistic game has to be entirely mundane:

Quote
re·al, real 
/ˈrē(ə)l/, /rāˈäl/
Adjective
Actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed: "Julius Caesar was a real person".

Quote
re·al·is·tic  (r-lstk)
adj.
1. Tending to or expressing an awareness of things as they really are: She gave us a realistic appraisal of our chances.
2. Of or relating to the representation of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are: a realistic novel about ghetto life. See Synonyms at graphic.
real·isti·cal·ly adv.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:14:43 PM by littha »

Offline FlaminCows

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • Push that button. Doo eeet.
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 11:57:35 PM »
It grates on me when people use Realistic when they really mean Simulationist in relation to games. A realistic game has to be entirely mundane:

Quote
re·al, real 
/ˈrē(ə)l/, /rāˈäl/
Adjective
Actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed: "Julius Caesar was a real person".

Quote
re·al·is·tic  (r-lstk)
adj.
1. Tending to or expressing an awareness of things as they really are: She gave us a realistic appraisal of our chances.
2. Of or relating to the representation of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are: a realistic novel about ghetto life. See Synonyms at graphic.
real·isti·cal·ly adv.

And that very definition you quoted shows that it does not have to be entirely mundane to be realisting. "Tending to". "Expressing an awareness of". "Of or relating to the representation of". None of those are "Exactly the same as". In addition, "simulationist" does not mean realistic. You can have an unrealistic simulationist system. The word "simulationism", as it is used here, was coined by Ron Edwards, and it refers to a style of play where the main agenda is the recreation of, or inspiration by, the observed characteristics of a particular genre or source material. When a person is asking for a realistic game, he is being more specific.

Offline littha

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2952
  • +1 Holy Muffin
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 01:09:37 AM »
In addition, "simulationist" does not mean realistic.
If it did I would have no issues with people saying realistic would I?

Quote
You can have an unrealistic simulationist system.
Like one that has rules for magic for example?

Quote
The word "simulationism", as it is used here, was coined by Ron Edwards, and it refers to a style of play where the main agenda is the recreation of, or inspiration by, the observed characteristics of a particular genre or source material.
I have a masters degree in games design. I am fully aware what simulationism represents in this context.

Quote
When a person is asking for a realistic game, he is being more specific.
A realistic game would strive to be like reality. So much so that the word Fantasy is an antonym of Realism. Thus a game that is realistic cannot be fantastic at the same time.

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 01:36:27 PM »
GURPS

One Roll Engine (I hear Reign is pretty good for fantasy, though I haven't checked it out)

GURPS, by its nature, probably takes the cake for flexibility.  And, like ORE, combats are (if memory serves, I'm like 2 editions out of date) quick, deadly, and could be quite detailed, depending on which optional rules you wanted to use.  Really, using d20 just isn't playing to its strengths:  d20 is meant to give you Diablo, not Game of Thrones.

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 03:31:47 PM »
What Shad here wants is a game where you can play an ordinary person in a fantasy world, as well as one that includes more detailed mechanics for mundane tasks. Magic systems can be made more realistic too, by the way, by making its mechanics less abstract.

This is exactly what I am trying to accomplish! Thank you for putting into words better than I could.

Littha, I apologize for using the word realistic, you are absolutely correct. Simulationistic is what I really meant. That being said I feel that term is less understood by more people than not, while the connotation most people make with the term realistic is actually what I want to get across to people. I will make a note of the correct term In the OP though. Thank you for pointing out my mistake in a civil, if the slightest bit confrontational manner.

Unbeliever, thank you for those. I am aware of ORE and I feel I have incorporated something of it by changing all die rolls to d6's. I know this is not the same thing as ORE, but the mechanical differences are very similar. I have not ever heard of GURPS before, but looking at there web page it looks really interesting. I will take a look at it and see what ideas I like.

I will continue posting what I have done already later tonight.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 09:32:59 PM »
If anyone wants to write up flavor text for race descriptions I will gladly take the help, and credit you for it! If I like it that is. If I don't it might be because it's bad :P Or more likely, it might be because it doesn't fit into my vision of the race.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 09:40:56 PM »
What Shad here wants is a game where you can play an ordinary person in a fantasy world, as well as one that includes more detailed mechanics for mundane tasks. Magic systems can be made more realistic too, by the way, by making its mechanics less abstract.

This is exactly what I am trying to accomplish! Thank you for putting into words better than I could.
I didn't realize that was the goal, either.  Hence, my Game of Thrones examples, where the characters are anything but ordinary.  If that is the goal, then ORE probably isn't exactly what you're looking for -- it seems geared towards capable, but gritty heroes.

GURPS does seem to be the way to go, as in my experience (which again, was a long time ago), it's a game that will let you put a lot of emphasis on the mundane.  There are tons of subsystems for making ends meet, probably stuff for farming, and generally very granular characters.  Much, much moreso than anything d20 has put together. 

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 09:50:54 PM »
Yeah I've been taking a look at it and a lot of the ideas are really good. The mechanics for the system aren't exactly what I'd like though, but the mere volume of options the system provides is overwhelming! I will have to spend a while looking through what systems they have for inspiration.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 762
  • Former Lord of the Kitchen Sink
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 02:33:50 PM »
I'm liking the direction this is going
The Emperor
Can you find the Wumpus?

Offline Vampireshado

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Who even cares? Seriously though please tell me
    • View Profile
Re: Emulating a Stricter Realism
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 05:07:50 PM »
Thank you! Glad to hear it's appreciated. When I get the whole thing done I will certainly compile it in a more complete and comprehendible fashion.
Auruggh something witty! (nailed it)