Author Topic: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"  (Read 15746 times)

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« on: November 17, 2011, 05:01:07 PM »
This handbook is preserving the "Myth: the XPH is overpowered", and "Myth: the XPH is overpowered II" threads for reference. Credit goes to the original compilers. Ported by nijineko.

"Myth: the XPH is overpowered"
(click to show/hide)



« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 10:58:57 AM by nijineko »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 05:01:17 PM »
"Myth: the XPH is overpowered II"
(click to show/hide)

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 05:01:39 PM »
Reserved for new information.

Myth 28: Ardents use manifester level to pick powers known.

This information comes directly from the designer, and as such may not count as official errata in some games or with some dms. This exchange was held via email, and I was the one who asked him directly.

The author stated that Ardents are supposed to use class level to pick powers known. This invalidates a number of builds, specifically ones using the Ardent in the same fashion as an initiator class from the Tome of Battle:Book of Nine Swords.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 05:08:27 PM by nijineko »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 05:02:04 PM »
Reserved.

End of handbook.

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics is Overpowered
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 06:14:01 PM »
The name of this thread should be Handbook of Myths: Psionics is Overpowered. Psionics is not plural, nor is there a plural form of it.

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics are Overpowered
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 12:46:53 AM »
i have not looked it up, so i could be wrong, but there is a word psionic, and there is a word psionics, since both are made up, it is reasonable to assign one to be plural. after all, there are different kinds of psionics.

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4503
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics are Overpowered
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 01:05:05 AM »
i have not looked it up, so i could be wrong, but there is a word psionic, and there is a word psionics, since both are made up, it is reasonable to assign one to be plural. after all, there are different kinds of psionics.

Psionics is a noun, but psionic is an adjective.

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: Psionics are Overpowered
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 01:43:00 AM »
thank you. since it has been mentioned by two, how about i change the title to match the original. =D thanks for the explanations. i appreciate them.

Offline Prime32

  • Over-Underling
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: the XPH is Overpowered
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 08:15:24 AM »
Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered" (with quotes) could work better, so people don't assume that the pro-XPH arguments are the myths.

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 10:58:25 AM »
Good point. Amended.

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2011, 01:49:01 PM »
Last Myth: XPH being overpowered is a myth (or rebutal to the points to show why psionics are indeed overpowered)

0-The intro saying that there's things magic can do and psionics can't and vice-versa is false for the simple fact there's rules to convert magic into psionic powers, but not the other way around. Psionic characters thus can potentially acess every damn spell out there.

1-Plenty of tricks to boost ML out there besides Overchannel (between psionic ability to burrow arcane tricks and stuff like those Eberron shards), and also plenty of tricks to boost your PP reserves (like those PP arrows), if not plainly making them infinite with loops.

2-Would be true, if not for 1. Since you can easily boost your ML beyond your class level, you can upgrade your powers to stronger versions much earlier than you're suposed to, while a magic user won't get higher-level spells just because he boosted his CL.

That's ignoring the detail that this argument assumes magic not to be overpowered, which is plainly ridiculous. If you follow that logic, then nothing ever writen is overpowered, because it will always be not stronger than Pun-Pun.

3,4, 5, 6-I'll let you get away with those for now, plenty of bigger fish to fry here.

7-Not from Wotc? Really? Freely available in the net, just as "core" as everything in the srd. You can't just go around selectively ignoring the 100% official psionic material you don't like.

8-You're a psion short on feats? No problem, just pick up a psicrystal, basically doubling your base feats that you can burrow as needed! Oh and your psicrystal can also hold up focus! And recover it as well! It's trivial for a psion to recover focus every round, if not multiple times per round.

9 and 10, will you let get away with it for now.

11-Like pointed out in 1, any psion can easily boost his PP reserves. And well, plenty of casters also have the 15-minutes workday, and that doesn't make them any less overpowered.

12-Or you could, you know, wait untill all your temp HP get depleted before renovating it.

13-Plain Oberroni's fallacy here. Just because you can houserule it, doesn't mean it isn't overpowered to begin with. Anyway this power makes the psion even more overpowered by granting him almost free selection of discipline-specific powers and all the other great psionic feats out there. Even a wizard takes much longer to learn new spells.

Now skipping some more points to get to the meaty ones.

22-Oh noes, you're taking some damage in order to unlock higher level powers sooner than anyone else and spend a feat that I can easily retrain and/or burrow from my psicrytal! The psion may give a damn about the "penalties" if they weren't easily offset by the fact your greatly boosted powers will punch trough any oposition.

Skipping some more stuff, just for the finishing touch.

26-Celerity is considered one of the most borked spells out there. Why would Anticipatory Strike get a free pass again? Or is it the Pun-Pun fallacy again "A pimped wizard could do it, so it's not overpowered if the psion does it"?


TL, DR:
Each of the psion tricks doesn't exist in a vacuum. They cover each other up, making their suposed drawbacks moot, and then are highly sinergetic, with psicrystal+reformation making sure feats are no problem, plenty of ways to get more PPs to burn, and then the psion is easily crushing all on its path while having the answer to any problem just one reformation away. Only the most pimped casters can hope to match a psion going wild, and that isn't exactly a sign of balance.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:51:02 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2011, 03:21:22 PM »
So what you are saying is only the most pimped out casters can match the most pimped out psions and thus psionics isn't balanced compared to magic. *facepalm*

Edit: Note it originally said after the and "that isn't balanced"
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 03:32:15 PM by Bastian »

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2011, 03:26:09 PM »
Do tell, if your definition of "overpowered" is "stronger than pimped caster", then what exactly is overpowered in D&D? Magic isn't a point of the scale. Magic/psionics is the top of the scale.

After all, last time I checked, if you're stronger than 90% of the remaining game material, then it's safe to say you're overpowered.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 03:28:37 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2011, 03:33:59 PM »
Do tell, if your definition of "overpowered" is "stronger than pimped caster", then what exactly is overpowered in D&D?
The point of this thread is that psionics isn't any more overpowered than magic as a refutation of the morons who think the opposite. I'm well aware that magic is overpowered.

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 04:11:31 PM »
I see no such claim in the thread title or the intro before the spoilers. The way a newbie would read it (and several psionic fans try to promote), you can let psionics run wild that it will be balanced, which is blatantly false.

It even fails to adress the PP loops as far as I see. That'll be really useful, when a player never runs out of points, breaking the campaign, and if the DM tries to do anything is pointed to this handbook "Oh, no, psions are really PP starved, I'm perfectly allowed to pull this, check out this thread, the community says this isn't a problem at all!"
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 04:15:52 PM by oslecamo »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 04:31:46 PM »
Last Myth: XPH being overpowered is a myth (or rebutal to the points to show why psionics are indeed overpowered)

0-The intro saying that there's things magic can do and psionics can't and vice-versa is false for the simple fact there's rules to convert magic into psionic powers, but not the other way around. Psionic characters thus can potentially acess every damn spell out there.

Someone disagrees with you.

Quote
1-Plenty of tricks to boost ML out there besides Overchannel (between psionic ability to burrow arcane tricks and stuff like those Eberron shards), and also plenty of tricks to boost your PP reserves (like those PP arrows), if not plainly making them infinite with loops.

could you give an example of borrowing arcane tricks? spell-to-power only works on certain spells, and they still don't get increases with spellpowers for free, they still have to pay for them with power points.

also, the only ML boosting tricks i can think of off hand are wilder,  overchannel, ioun stone, or practiced manifester which is the same as practiced caster on the magic side.

furthermore, an arcane caster gets their boosts for free, a psionic manifester has to pay for every increase with power points. this is the same as having to spend extra spell slots in order to raise the damage of your fireball.

and manifester arrows are still limited to only 5pp, which keeps the power level low, due to the single power point source rule.

Quote
2-Would be true, if not for 1. Since you can easily boost your ML beyond your class level, you can upgrade your powers to stronger versions much earlier than you're suposed to, while a magic user won't get higher-level spells just because he boosted his CL.

That's ignoring the detail that this argument assumes magic not to be overpowered, which is plainly ridiculous. If you follow that logic, then nothing ever writen is overpowered, because it will always be not stronger than Pun-Pun.

having to pay more power points for a higher level power equals spending more spell slots to get a higher level effect.

besides the original premise is that magic is overpowered, not sure how you missed that. the point of this thread is proving that psionics is not more powerful than magic.

Quote
3,4, 5, 6-I'll let you get away with those for now, plenty of bigger fish to fry here.

7-Not from Wotc? Really? Freely available in the net, just as "core" as everything in the srd. You can't just go around selectively ignoring the 100% official psionic material you don't like.

at the time the original thread was published, it was true. updating will eventually be performed. thanks to polite replies from people pointing out old info for new, it will happen sooner rather than later.

Quote
8-You're a psion short on feats? No problem, just pick up a psicrystal, basically doubling your base feats that you can burrow as needed! Oh and your psicrystal can also hold up focus! And recover it as well! It's trivial for a psion to recover focus every round, if not multiple times per round.

that is a fallacy, and a houserule, see the feat battery trick in the psionics tricks thread.

Quote
9 and 10, will you let get away with it for now.

11-Like pointed out in 1, any psion can easily boost his PP reserves. And well, plenty of casters also have the 15-minutes workday, and that doesn't make them any less overpowered.

easily depends totally on the dm. not everyone gets enough gold for that, can find a crafter, or time to craft.

Quote
12-Or you could, you know, wait untill all your temp HP get depleted before renovating it.

thank you for proving it is not overpowered.

Quote
13-Plain Oberroni's fallacy here. Just because you can houserule it, doesn't mean it isn't overpowered to begin with. Anyway this power makes the psion even more overpowered by granting him almost free selection of discipline-specific powers and all the other great psionic feats out there. Even a wizard takes much longer to learn new spells.

a) wizards can make equal use of this power.
b) most players in practice do not like spending the xp, especially if their dm does not use the xp tables as written.
c) let's see, a wizard can know every spell in the game, and can pick which ones they want at the start of each day for free, while a non-erudite psion has to spend xp to do the same thing. somehow i'm not convinced. the feat and skill point swap is nice, but any wizard can access it as well. only takes a single feat and at least 6 character levels at a minimum for any character, wizard or not, to eventually get access to this power.

Quote
Now skipping some more points to get to the meaty ones.

22-Oh noes, you're taking some damage in order to unlock higher level powers sooner than anyone else and spend a feat that I can easily retrain and/or burrow from my psicrytal! The psion may give a damn about the "penalties" if they weren't easily offset by the fact your greatly boosted powers will punch trough any oposition.

there are no unlocking of higher level powers at all. powers remain the same level no matter how augmented they are. which means that any minor globe of invulnerability stops most energy powers cold. actually, any powers of appropriate level are stopped cold. furthermore, even ardents have been called out as selecting powers based on class level, not manifester level, so it is impossible for higher level powers to be selected earlier than normal without dm intervention.

by way of example: a fireball does 5d6, and scales up to 10d6 for free. it takes a 3rd level slot no matter how much damage it does, without metamagic. a 3rd level slot is equal to 5 power points. in order for a erudite to manifest a fireball spellpower that deals 10d6, he must spend 10 power points, the equivalent of two 3rd level spell slots.

ergo, psionics is not more powerful than magic.

Quote
Skipping some more stuff, just for the finishing touch.

26-Celerity is considered one of the most borked spells out there. Why would Anticipatory Strike get a free pass again? Or is it the Pun-Pun fallacy again "A pimped wizard could do it, so it's not overpowered if the psion does it"?


TL, DR:
Each of the psion tricks doesn't exist in a vacuum. They cover each other up, making their suposed drawbacks moot, and then are highly sinergetic, with psicrystal+reformation making sure feats are no problem, plenty of ways to get more PPs to burn, and then the psion is easily crushing all on its path while having the answer to any problem just one reformation away. Only the most pimped casters can hope to match a psion going wild, and that isn't exactly a sign of balance.

i'm not even following what you are claiming is the problem... could you please stick to clear cut rules explanations, so that we can compare appropriately?  it seems that in pretty much every case, psionics is either less powerful, or occasionally on a par with magic. which was the point of the thread. psionics is not more powerful than magic.

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 06:10:16 PM »
Last Myth: XPH being overpowered is a myth (or rebutal to the points to show why psionics are indeed overpowered)

0-The intro saying that there's things magic can do and psionics can't and vice-versa is false for the simple fact there's rules to convert magic into psionic powers, but not the other way around. Psionic characters thus can potentially acess every damn spell out there.

Someone disagrees with you.
They also disagree with you, since you start the thread by claiming they don't have complete acess to each other. ;)

Quote
1-Plenty of tricks to boost ML out there besides Overchannel (between psionic ability to burrow arcane tricks and stuff like those Eberron shards), and also plenty of tricks to boost your PP reserves (like those PP arrows), if not plainly making them infinite with loops.

could you give an example of borrowing arcane tricks? spell-to-power only works on certain spells, and they still don't get increases with spellpowers for free, they still have to pay for them with power points.

also, the only ML boosting tricks i can think of off hand are wilder,  overchannel, ioun stone, or practiced manifester which is the same as practiced caster on the magic side.

furthermore, an arcane caster gets their boosts for free, a psionic manifester has to pay for every increase with power points. this is the same as having to spend extra spell slots in order to raise the damage of your fireball.

and manifester arrows are still limited to only 5pp, which keeps the power level low, due to the single power point source rule.
You realize you have a thread just above this one with tricks to make sure you start every combat of the day with full PP right?

Quote
2-Would be true, if not for 1. Since you can easily boost your ML beyond your class level, you can upgrade your powers to stronger versions much earlier than you're suposed to, while a magic user won't get higher-level spells just because he boosted his CL.

That's ignoring the detail that this argument assumes magic not to be overpowered, which is plainly ridiculous. If you follow that logic, then nothing ever writen is overpowered, because it will always be not stronger than Pun-Pun.

having to pay more power points for a higher level power equals spending more spell slots to get a higher level effect.

besides the original premise is that magic is overpowered, not sure how you missed that. the point of this thread is proving that psionics is not more powerful than magic.
So let me see if I get this...
-Magic is overpowered.
-Psionics is right on par with magic.
-Psionics is NOT overpowered.

Honestly, what kind of logic is that?
7-Not from Wotc? Really? Freely available in the net, just as "core" as everything in the srd. You can't just go around selectively ignoring the 100% official psionic material you don't like.

at the time the original thread was published, it was true. updating will eventually be performed. thanks to polite replies from people pointing out old info for new, it will happen sooner rather than later.
You have the time to be sarcastic, you surely have time to correct that. I would expect 5 years to be enough time to change a couple of lines.

Quote
8-You're a psion short on feats? No problem, just pick up a psicrystal, basically doubling your base feats that you can burrow as needed! Oh and your psicrystal can also hold up focus! And recover it as well! It's trivial for a psion to recover focus every round, if not multiple times per round.

that is a fallacy, and a houserule, see the feat battery trick in the psionics tricks thread.
You even know what fallacy means to be throwing it like that? Anyway, the fact it's in your own thread, and that it's widely used on the gaming discussions on this very forum, is more than enough sign what interpretation (not houserule) people follow.


easily depends totally on the dm. not everyone gets enough gold for that, can find a crafter, or time to craft.
If just psions could craft items... Oh, wait, they can!

And if only they could stack multiple cost-reducing feats to do it cheaply and then quickly retrain them... Oh, wait, they can as well!

thank you for proving it is not overpowered.
When did I say that? I was just geting to the point where you share it with your psicrystal and then put share pain on top, and you can endure more damage than any other character of the same level, despite suposedly being a squishy caster.

Quote
13-Plain Oberroni's fallacy here. Just because you can houserule it, doesn't mean it isn't overpowered to begin with. Anyway this power makes the psion even more overpowered by granting him almost free selection of discipline-specific powers and all the other great psionic feats out there. Even a wizard takes much longer to learn new spells.

a) wizards can make equal use of this power.
b) most players in practice do not like spending the xp, especially if their dm does not use the xp tables as written.
c) let's see, a wizard can know every spell in the game, and can pick which ones they want at the start of each day for free, while a non-erudite psion has to spend xp to do the same thing. somehow i'm not convinced. the feat and skill point swap is nice, but any wizard can access it as well. only takes a single feat and at least 6 character levels at a minimum for any character, wizard or not, to eventually get access to this power.
a)Not whitout a psion's help they cannot.
b)You should really change the thread's title to "The XPH totally isn't overpowered if you add enough houserules!"
c)A wizard will take years and rivers of money to learn every spell in the game, and then they need 8 hours to change it. The wizard also cannot easily double his feats (out of 11 it gets, provided it doesn't multiclass). The psion gets any power it wants in 10 minutes at the cost of a single power (out of 36 it knows). Yes, completely fair.

22-Oh noes, you're taking some damage in order to unlock higher level powers sooner than anyone else and spend a feat that I can easily retrain and/or burrow from my psicrytal! The psion may give a damn about the "penalties" if they weren't easily offset by the fact your greatly boosted powers will punch trough any oposition.

there are no unlocking of higher level powers at all. powers remain the same level no matter how augmented they are. which means that any minor globe of invulnerability stops most energy powers cold. actually, any powers of appropriate level are stopped cold. furthermore, even ardents have been called out as selecting powers based on class level, not manifester level, so it is impossible for higher level powers to be selected earlier than normal without dm intervention.
A 9th level psion pimping his ML can replicate Dominate Monster since it can learn Dominate Person and then boost it, as a single example of low level powers being upgradeable to high-level spells.

26-Celerity is considered one of the most borked spells out there. Why would Anticipatory Strike get a free pass again? Or is it the Pun-Pun fallacy again "A pimped wizard could do it, so it's not overpowered if the psion does it"?


TL, DR:
Each of the psion tricks doesn't exist in a vacuum. They cover each other up, making their suposed drawbacks moot, and then are highly sinergetic, with psicrystal+reformation making sure feats are no problem, plenty of ways to get more PPs to burn, and then the psion is easily crushing all on its path while having the answer to any problem just one reformation away. Only the most pimped casters can hope to match a psion going wild, and that isn't exactly a sign of balance.

i'm not even following what you are claiming is the problem... could you please stick to clear cut rules explanations, so that we can compare appropriately?  it seems that in pretty much every case, psionics is either less powerful, or occasionally on a par with magic. which was the point of the thread. psionics is not more powerful than magic.

Then you're still lying on the thread title and on several points, because you claim that the XPH being overpowered is a myth, when you've just agreed it's just as overpowered as magic, the most overpowered thing in the whole game. Please correct that.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 06:13:31 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 06:40:47 PM »
You might note that nijineko did not write this handbook, the handbook itself was written before Psionics recharge tricks were discovered and before Complete Psionics was released. Furthermore, you will note how it opens as a note that it is refuting the psionics is overpowered threads, the psionics is overpowered crowd were in fact under the impression that psionics was overpowered as compared to magic (and many of them believed magic was balanced) which is why the thread is written as it is.

Yes, this thread could use a little updating to bring it up to modern knowledge on optimizing, the problem is that updating another person's creation without their permission is something of a quandary since either it is slightly morally problematic or you have to make it very obvious that they are edits (which usually makes them eyesores).

Edit: Also have you considered being polite in the slightest?

Edit2: You might also note that nijineko hasn't had control of this thread for very long and you just brought up your comments so your 'you've had five years' comment is wildly inaccurate.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 07:03:01 PM by Bastian »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2408
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 07:40:33 PM »
first off, i do not like being called a liar. please apologize.

second off, if you had done your research, you would know that i ported this thread, not own it, nor started it.

third off, you are miss-quoting me even as you claim i was wrong and a liar.


regardless of our respective opinions on psionics, that is bad form.


*edit* thank you, Bastian.


anyway, regarding some of your comments:

who is the "you" you are speaking of in the arcane/psionic cross access? i didn't start the thread i linked to you, nor do i necessarily agree with it, which is why i said "someone", rather than myself.

the psionic tricks thread (which is also not mine, again i ported it, but the author is quoted in the title), has had some recent additions wherein i have taken advantage of the fact that i ported it to add my disagreements with how some of the tricks work to the text of certain tricks. iirc without looking, all the recharge tricks require time, which is dm dependent. and given that it seems that the default assumption is limited supply of spells or pp, then a loophole in those rules can be overpowered depending on context.

personally (and now this IS my personal opinion) i think the moi-infinimanifesting is on a par with the reserve feats. i too think that the full recharge is over the top, unless we can add vancian style magic to the list of debatable topics.


where are you getting your information? 'cause if that is truly claimed by the thread, then i'm going to have to start seriously editing the threads instead of just porting them. dominate monster? that is a ninth level spell, and thus an illegal target  for spell-to-power. which a psion can't learn in any case, only an erudite. power selection is based on the erudite maximum power known table, which means they can't get 9th level powers til 17th level - let alone 9th level, and spell-to-power limits spell selection to one level lower than your max powers known; which would be 8th level spells when the erudite is at 17th or higher.

i see a miss-quotation, so i am just going to skip that.

heh, sarcasm ne? i guess you didn't like me matching your sarcasm with mine. well then, i frankly apologize for being sarcastic. i have no idea why the original poster did not correct it in the five years you mention. and i will happily correct it at some point, it should be fixed.

ignoring your sarcasm - yes, the psicrystal gaining feats is a fallacy. anything based on psicrystal feats therefore technically does not work. but some dm's disagree, and think that psicrystals should get feats, so i left the trick in, after adding the reasoning why i think it is wrong, since i seem to be one of the few who think that way. (oh yeah, i actually did some editing on the tricks thread, as i have some interest in that one, this thread was simply ported as is.)

crafting... what? i'm not sure i'm understanding why you feel the need to present your reply in that fashion. just compare the rules in question, please, and i'll respond to that.

anyone can get access to psyref via the leadership feat, among other methods.

(personal opinion, but i think psyref is a great addition to the game. i really don't like retconning stuff, and this with the retraining rules in the phb2 let you tweak your character after playtesting and finding that you want differences. ymmv. in actual games where i am the player or dm, the only times pcs have actually done this is right before a big fight, or when they really need something specific. maybe 3 or 4 times over many levels of the character's career. i think that there should be a spell equivalent. )

i'm pretty sure that there are other characters of the same level that have mroe hp than a psion with a psicrystal and vigor and share pain. it seems obvious that neither of us has done the math or researched every possible combination to prove or disprove it.

i believe that i've repeatedly stated that psionics is less powerful than magic in most cases. it is on a par in a few specific cases. please do not miss-quote me.


if you care enough to refute what you see as errors and fallacies, please provide rules quotes and examples with math, showing your work. then i will feel like you are an awesome person and will actually feel motivated to work on editing the port and correcting errors. almost-flaming me is a serious de-motivational feeling.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 07:47:08 PM by nijineko »

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of Myths: "the XPH is Overpowered"
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 08:18:40 PM »
I would suggest putting him on your ignore list, it's what I did. Then if you wish to see one of his posts you can choose to do so but otherwise you don't have to see them at all beyond a 'you are ignoring this user do you wish to see this post' notice. It makes reading this forum a lot more pleasant.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 08:21:31 PM by Bastian »