Author Topic: General Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 212020 times)

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1000 on: October 28, 2017, 10:43:19 PM »
Entropy Elemental
Coincidentally (or not?), this fits directly with Mao's opinion/theory on magic. The feat's special description states that the feat can be picked multiple times by lowering your max spirit points. Does this require having the feat at least once normally?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1001 on: October 28, 2017, 11:18:18 PM »
We think alike sometimes then. Also open for extra suggestions on Entropy Elemental options.

No, anybody with spirit points can do it.

Also added a cooldown to recovering your max spirit, something I intended but forgot.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1002 on: October 29, 2017, 04:55:39 PM »
Maybe something about about generating dead-magic zones. An aura or something that is generated whenever something specific happens. The world without magic progressively expending.

Offline Fzzr

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1003 on: October 29, 2017, 05:01:52 PM »
Just noticed: Prodigy Pilot and Psycho Pilot are missing from the index.

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1004 on: October 30, 2017, 01:41:34 AM »
I'm looking to go into Machinery Warrior from a real build. Can I use Machinery Weapons on arsenal weapons, or only in-builts? I assume in-builts only, but it's not super clear.
Similarly, how does Machinery Weapons interact with Twin-linked weapons?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1005 on: October 30, 2017, 05:04:33 AM »
Maybe something about about generating dead-magic zones. An aura or something that is generated whenever something specific happens. The world without magic progressively expending.
Nice, I'll add something along those lines when I've got the time to write it down properly.

Just noticed: Prodigy Pilot and Psycho Pilot are missing from the index.
Fixed, thanks.

I'm looking to go into Machinery Warrior from a real build. Can I use Machinery Weapons on arsenal weapons, or only in-builts? I assume in-builts only, but it's not super clear.
Similarly, how does Machinery Weapons interact with Twin-linked weapons?
Clarified it's in-built only, added Twin-linked and X-linked clause.

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1006 on: November 12, 2017, 07:26:41 PM »
I'm really happy to see Module Pilot, but the fact that it doesn't let you combine into a humanoid mech bugs me. It seems like it'd be perfect for Getters, Aquarion, and even the Hyperion (who you're using one of the pilots of as a class pic), but you can't combine with it and get a regular mech, so...


Offline Fzzr

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1007 on: November 12, 2017, 10:54:27 PM »
So Module Pilot sacrifices maneuvers, lots of SP, and bonus feats for full Arsenal, tons of upgrade points, and perfect saves. Not sure about playing this as a main class, but this seems like almost the perfect cross-class or gestalt for Real- or BB-based classes. That's assuming the maneuver penalties only apply when actually in the Armored Module (or for BB, transformed into Armored Module mode) not when in a mecha/BB that has upgrade points from the Module applied. If the "this penalty persists if the Armored Module is combined with other mecha" clause applies to x-class/gestalt at all times, not super amazing, just a good option to get super upgrades/full arsenal/better saves for those who lack such.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1008 on: November 13, 2017, 12:27:49 AM »
I'm really happy to see Module Pilot, but the fact that it doesn't let you combine into a humanoid mech bugs me. It seems like it'd be perfect for Getters, Aquarion, and even the Hyperion (who you're using one of the pilots of as a class pic), but you can't combine with it and get a regular mech, so...

I had indeed the Hyperion in mind. I now notice it indeed kinda has arms, but they're relatively tiny and not used for any of its attacks in constrast to the Astelion that can actually hold weapons. However I can see what you're getting at so allowed a combined form to be humanoid and no longer inflict a penalty on maneuver IL/PL.

So Module Pilot sacrifices maneuvers, lots of SP, and bonus feats for full Arsenal, tons of upgrade points, and perfect saves. Not sure about playing this as a main class, but this seems like almost the perfect cross-class or gestalt for Real- or BB-based classes. That's assuming the maneuver penalties only apply when actually in the Armored Module (or for BB, transformed into Armored Module mode) not when in a mecha/BB that has upgrade points from the Module applied. If the "this penalty persists if the Armored Module is combined with other mecha" clause applies to x-class/gestalt at all times, not super amazing, just a good option to get super upgrades/full arsenal/better saves for those who lack such.

It persists in gestalt and multiclass too, clarified. One of the main issues when designing this class was indeed to prevent it from making it the ultimate dip for others.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1009 on: November 18, 2017, 10:51:16 PM »
So some half-random thoughts I've been musing about for quite some time and checking if anybody has any opinion about them.

Was thinking of a couple feats to allow Reals and Supers to get some out-of-combat utility.

Real Rank:

-Based on that as you belong to some kind of military organization you get some perks.
-Transporation of people and goods, including smuggling and the like.
-Request the service of non-pilot troops for scout/guarding/spying duty.
-Able to get close to important political figures, attend high-class events.
-Eventually can become the leader of your own country/empire.
-Demands spending increasingly amounts of time doing bureaucracy work.

Super Sidekicks:
-Based on that super pilots inevitably attract (other) exotic personalities.
-Connections with the underworld and secret crazy organizations.
-Get help from thieves, mad scientists, school bullies, unruly martial artists and whatnot.
-Miracolously saved during dangerous situations to fight another day.
-Eventually can pull a super project that ends up reshaping the fabric of reality in a space sector in some way.
-Demands spending increasingly amounts of time hanging out with your super sidekicks in bars/school/shopping/brawling/whinning and whatnot.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 10:55:18 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1010 on: November 18, 2017, 10:53:38 PM »
Quote
-Connections with the underworld and secret crazy organizations.

... the underworld? That seems a bit uncommon.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1011 on: November 18, 2017, 10:56:32 PM »
Underworld in the sense of "common criminals, gamblers, cults" rather than "mystic hell".

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1012 on: November 19, 2017, 03:28:36 AM »
I think I really like the ideas behind the Real Pilot one. Especially in regards to Katherine's future endeavors.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1013 on: November 19, 2017, 09:34:38 AM »
Underworld in the sense of "common criminals, gamblers, cults" rather than "mystic hell".

No, I get what you meant.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1014 on: November 19, 2017, 09:35:34 PM »
I notice most base classes have feats specifically for them. The Peace Princess doesn't have any at the moment. Some of the functions of the feat idea above kinda fits them.

For a those with the magic item-less trait, are they meant to not have access to most of the pilot uniforms, as they are more expensive than 10gp?

As for the feat idea, a sort-of-problem I can see with it is that many of those features can be acquired without it. Just as part of being in a given organization. While the feat at least guarantees those privileges, it may bring the notion that you aren't supposed to get those benefits without the feat. Or perhaps some frustration when you have stuff through the feat and another player as a similar perk for story reasons without any investment. Some of those benefits remind me of the faction membership thing in Complete Champion. Where your reputation score thingy/investment determines how important you are in a given organization and the benefits granted by your rank.
The notion that you must spend more and more time doing stuff other than adventuring may be tricky but I agree with it. But then I'm not sure about it as a feat.
I feel sort of the same way about Leadership, to be honest, so it could work if the mechanics are very clear as to what they give and what variables improve/penalize the results.






Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1015 on: November 20, 2017, 03:10:50 AM »
After starting Super Robot Wars L been seeing alien lesbian robots Iczer 1-3, making a bunch of notes for a combat android class with developing synthetic soul for later.

Also added Real Rank's 1st draft. Ruler thingies will have to wait until I get some half-decent rules for mass mecha combat and governing and whatnot.

I notice most base classes have feats specifically for them. The Peace Princess doesn't have any at the moment. Some of the functions of the feat idea above kinda fits them.
Probably. Nobility and organized military kinda started being the same thing after all. Maybe I'll make Real Rank work from both classes.

For a those with the magic item-less trait, are they meant to not have access to most of the pilot uniforms, as they are more expensive than 10gp?
One step ahead of you, already updated the trait to allow you to burn your money in fancy pilot clothing. Although it seems I forgot to update it in the changelog, ups... :blush

As for the feat idea, a sort-of-problem I can see with it is that many of those features can be acquired without it. Just as part of being in a given organization. While the feat at least guarantees those privileges, it may bring the notion that you aren't supposed to get those benefits without the feat. Or perhaps some frustration when you have stuff through the feat and another player as a similar perk for story reasons without any investment. Some of those benefits remind me of the faction membership thing in Complete Champion. Where your reputation score thingy/investment determines how important you are in a given organization and the benefits granted by your rank.
The notion that you must spend more and more time doing stuff other than adventuring may be tricky but I agree with it. But then I'm not sure about it as a feat.
I feel sort of the same way about Leadership, to be honest, so it could work if the mechanics are very clear as to what they give and what variables improve/penalize the results.
And that's the difference between gaming the rules and gaming the DM.

For Real Rank I tried to keep the bonus objective so you can just get stuff with no need of story justification.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1016 on: November 20, 2017, 10:26:52 AM »
Is the "start new thread at page 50" limit still in place?

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1017 on: December 19, 2017, 08:35:06 PM »
Quote
Empty Machine: The Conscience Android can use her mecha’s own base HP, DR, Dodge, natural armor, movement speed(s), attack bonus (if any), save bonus (if any) and weapons instead of her own and also counts as having the same amount of energy instead of her own (including the basic 5 energy recovery per turn) as well as any special mecha properties such as transformation and barriers/coats/resistances/Regen/Reactor (do not count arsenal or benefits from others). She can also choose one in-built or arsenal weapon available to her mecha and replicate a normal-scale version on herself as a free action. This demands spending 8 hours of meditation outside her mecha and another 8 if she wishes to reverse the proccess.
Can we change only some of those stats or is it an everything or nothing conversion? The former is practical when some of the android's stats are better than his mecha's.
Also, the mecha weapons acquired are confusing a little. First you use them all instead of your own and then can also choose one. Unless this is meant to allow you to use all the mecha weapons instead of your own (including the one weapon replica chosen) when you choose to attack (a decision made every time an attack is done).
To note is that an android already gets the integrated weapon. Gives me ideas on how it may interact with it. Also, this ability is pretty badass.

Quote
Conscience Companion: At 2nd level the Conscience Android always gains the benefits of Friendship or Love as long as the respective target has a soul, is alive and whitin 100 mu, and double them if actually adjacent.
WOah. Double bonus? The benefits of a relationship bonus also includes the ability to do sync attacks. Is this allowing them to do sync attacks when within 100 mu?
Wonder why it shouldn't include the Rival and Devotion feats. Those are as intense in their own way.

Quote
Two with the Machine: At 3rd level the Conscience Android can have force one person that she has Friendship or Love to ride along her mecha. They can only use spirits and add their Cha mod to the mecha’s saves, attack and damage rolls. The Consicence Android still benefits from Love/Friendship while they’re both piloting the same mecha. As a swift action the Conscience Android may switch controls to them.
If the android wants to switch the controls back to them, they have to get the companion to relinquish it as a move action and then take them back as a move action of his own?

Quote
Synchro Conscience: At 5th level the Conscience Android can perform a Synchro Attack with her Conscience Companion while using Two with the Machine, plus benefit from any of her stances or other on-going self-buffs.
Technically, if they benefit from the relationship feat even when occupying the same mecha, they could already do synchro attacks by swapping the controls.

Quote
Protective Conscience: At 6th level with 1 minute of work the Conscience Android can allow somebody else adjacent to benefit from Empty Machine. Only one other person can benefit from this at a time, but they can pass on the bonus to somebody else with another minute of work. The Conscience Android can void this bonus as an immediate action.
Another pretty kickass ability. Pretty handy for a follower/cohort and have them choose you.

Quote
Traveling Conscience: At 8th level the Conscience Android gains telepathy 100 mu, or infinite range if towards a non-Soulless beings she has Friendship or Love to. As an immediate action you can instantly teleport yourself adjacent to anybody you have Friendship or Love to.
It is sort of okay. Odd to get so late compared to all the amazing stuff acquired before it.

Quote
Synthetic Soul: At 10th level the Conscience Android gains a Soul, losing the Soulless feature (although she still qualifies for this prc). Once per day as a free action 1/hour she may increase her Cha by 10. During this duration she may use Limited Wish (or Wish if she has PL 18+) as a cha-based SLA with CL=PL, but after using this her Cha returns to normal. Either way she must still pay the exp cost if replicating any lasting effect.
Is this meant to say that once per day she can activate it and it lasts one hour?
Losing the Soulless feature this late is pretty weak compared to the stuff acquired from the get go. A little surprised it isn't acquired sooner considering its actual usefulness requires having a good Cha score and level 10 is pretty late to start building in that direction. The temporary +10 to Cha is nice but doesn't have to happen at the same time as Soulless is lost. Otherwise it is mostly useful in simply allowing you to make the loss of Soulless somewhat useful. It would have made more sense if the PRC made having a good Cha score useful. +10 to Cha by itself isn't all that great unless you spent your first 5 levels getting something with Cha-based abilities, but then you've been going through the following 10 levels without being able to use them because taking Soulless off took so long. The limited wish/wish is okay.

The PrC doesn't have Craft skills nor knowledge skills, if that was intentional.

I see that in battle the PrC seems to focus mostly in making relationship feat bonuses stronger. Because it grants little in the area of new offensive tricks, a dedicated character of that PrC would likely rely much on the companion to do those tricks using his own mecha while sharing the piloting around. Kind of feels like Pacific Rim but taking turns. It gives a twist to One With the Machine and sort of makes it less useful too. It relies a lot on having a partner in the same mecha to get benefits, and that partner is the one who needs a high Cha score to make it useful while your own Cha score is useless until the very end. The Conscience Android is thus all about having a good partner rather than having a soul. Optimally I think that PrC is best used on a cohort that would make the Cha-based master strong. Probably a Peace Princess with the ride-along ability to make the most of the control-swapping trick.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 08:53:17 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1018 on: December 20, 2017, 06:55:52 AM »
Quote
Empty Machine: The Conscience Android can use her mecha’s own base HP, DR, Dodge, natural armor, movement speed(s), attack bonus (if any), save bonus (if any) and weapons instead of her own and also counts as having the same amount of energy instead of her own (including the basic 5 energy recovery per turn) as well as any special mecha properties such as transformation and barriers/coats/resistances/Regen/Reactor (do not count arsenal or benefits from others). She can also choose one in-built or arsenal weapon available to her mecha and replicate a normal-scale version on herself as a free action. This demands spending 8 hours of meditation outside her mecha and another 8 if she wishes to reverse the proccess.
Can we change only some of those stats or is it an everything or nothing conversion? The former is practical when some of the android's stats are better than his mecha's.
Also, the mecha weapons acquired are confusing a little. First you use them all instead of your own and then can also choose one. Unless this is meant to allow you to use all the mecha weapons instead of your own (including the one weapon replica chosen) when you choose to attack (a decision made every time an attack is done).
To note is that an android already gets the integrated weapon. Gives me ideas on how it may interact with it.
Clarified, also only one new weapon, that yes will stack with integrated weapory in homage to Iczer's beam saber and beam bracelet.

Also, this ability is pretty badass.
:D

Quote
Conscience Companion: At 2nd level the Conscience Android always gains the benefits of Friendship or Love as long as the respective target has a soul, is alive and whitin 100 mu, and double them if actually adjacent.
WOah. Double bonus? The benefits of a relationship bonus also includes the ability to do sync attacks. Is this allowing them to do sync attacks when within 100 mu?
Wonder why it shouldn't include the Rival and Devotion feats. Those are as intense in their own way.
Done.

Quote
Two with the Machine: At 3rd level the Conscience Android can have force one person that she has Friendship or Love to ride along her mecha. They can only use spirits and add their Cha mod to the mecha’s saves, attack and damage rolls. The Consicence Android still benefits from Love/Friendship while they’re both piloting the same mecha. As a swift action the Conscience Android may switch controls to them.
If the android wants to switch the controls back to them, they have to get the companion to relinquish it as a move action and then take them back as a move action of his own?
Just another swift action, clarified.


Quote
Synchro Conscience: At 5th level the Conscience Android can perform a Synchro Attack with her Conscience Companion while using Two with the Machine, plus benefit from any of her stances or other on-going self-buffs.
Technically, if they benefit from the relationship feat even when occupying the same mecha, they could already do synchro attacks by swapping the controls.
Clarified that the previous ability only counts for the raw numeric bonus.


Quote
Protective Conscience: At 6th level with 1 minute of work the Conscience Android can allow somebody else adjacent to benefit from Empty Machine. Only one other person can benefit from this at a time, but they can pass on the bonus to somebody else with another minute of work. The Conscience Android can void this bonus as an immediate action.
Another pretty kickass ability. Pretty handy for a follower/cohort and have them choose you.
Hmm, yes it's kinda too minionish, made it non-minion accessible on the prerequisites.

Quote
Traveling Conscience: At 8th level the Conscience Android gains telepathy 100 mu, or infinite range if towards a non-Soulless beings she has Friendship or Love to. As an immediate action you can instantly teleport yourself adjacent to anybody you have Friendship or Love to.
It is sort of okay. Odd to get so late compared to all the amazing stuff acquired before it.
Was kinda running out of ideas by then to be honest, suggestions welcome. :P


Quote
Synthetic Soul: At 10th level the Conscience Android gains a Soul, losing the Soulless feature (although she still qualifies for this prc). Once per day as a free action 1/hour she may increase her Cha by 10. During this duration she may use Limited Wish (or Wish if she has PL 18+) as a cha-based SLA with CL=PL, but after using this her Cha returns to normal. Either way she must still pay the exp cost if replicating any lasting effect.
Is this meant to say that once per day she can activate it and it lasts one hour?
Losing the Soulless feature this late is pretty weak compared to the stuff acquired from the get go. A little surprised it isn't acquired sooner considering its actual usefulness requires having a good Cha score and level 10 is pretty late to start building in that direction. The temporary +10 to Cha is nice but doesn't have to happen at the same time as Soulless is lost. Otherwise it is mostly useful in simply allowing you to make the loss of Soulless somewhat useful. It would have made more sense if the PRC made having a good Cha score useful. +10 to Cha by itself isn't all that great unless you spent your first 5 levels getting something with Cha-based abilities, but then you've been going through the following 10 levels without being able to use them because taking Soulless off took so long. The limited wish/wish is okay.

The PrC doesn't have Craft skills nor knowledge skills, if that was intentional.
Fixed typos and added ability to add Cha bonus to any 1d20 roll per round that ignores auto-fail on a 1, plus increasing crit range if you use it to buff attack.

I see that in battle the PrC seems to focus mostly in making relationship feat bonuses stronger. Because it grants little in the area of new offensive tricks, a dedicated character of that PrC would likely rely much on the companion to do those tricks using his own mecha while sharing the piloting around. Kind of feels like Pacific Rim but taking turns. It gives a twist to One With the Machine and sort of makes it less useful too. It relies a lot on having a partner in the same mecha to get benefits, and that partner is the one who needs a high Cha score to make it useful while your own Cha score is useless until the very end. The Conscience Android is thus all about having a good partner rather than having a soul. Optimally I think that PrC is best used on a cohort that would make the Cha-based master strong. Probably a Peace Princess with the ride-along ability to make the most of the control-swapping trick.
Well the idea was that by interacting close to somebody with a soul, the Conscience android eventually develops one of her own. Learn directly from the meatbags.

Doubling the raw numbers of your relationship feats isn't too shabby either.

The problem with adding abilities that work out of the conscience android's own charisma early on is that this is still a prc that you can only take at 5th and would be kinda weird to force androids to invest in the iconic dump stat in their first 4 levels.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1019 on: December 20, 2017, 07:43:06 AM »
Could take care of that problem by making it a weird PrC like Human/Dwarf/etc Paragon, which can be taken even at level 1. Or grant access to Cha usage early on even without having an actual Soul. Much like how every other soulless creatures can without having one. Or make it progressive such as having access to only one ability, then two then all of them or something like that. Or all from the get go but weaker, like half the regular bonus.

Traveling Conscience: I'll think of something though I haven't watched the inspiring material.

Perhaps the Cha to crit range is too strong. You now definitely want to build Cha at the very end since it'd more or less guarantee a crit per round and then you'd go for the highest crit multiplier.

Thanks for the swift patch! Highly considering this one.