Author Topic: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"  (Read 10607 times)

Offline KicktheCAN

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 03:48:49 AM »
Most exotic weapons belong to a single culture or species. Cultural Weapons, Traditional Weapons, Regional Weapons, Heritage Weapons, Ethnic Weapons, Ancestral Weapons, and Customary Weapons all make sense in that light.

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2011, 05:54:57 AM »
Cultural weapons I think, could be a varying suite of Martials mostly, based on the region they're in.
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2011, 06:25:34 AM »
This has inspired me to write a Tome-style EWP feat.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Fighter, Combat]
You have a knack for more esoteric weapons.
+1: As SRD EWP
+6: 1/2 penalty for wielding a weapon you aren't proficient in
+11: Use tome weapon training mechanic to become proficient in any weapons
+16:  Automatically proficient.

Offline X-Codes

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2011, 12:19:16 PM »
I would just as soon give all races some relevant proficiencies for free, via the Racial Weapon Familiarity feat...

If you are proficient with melee weapons, you are proficient with the following weapons, as well:

Surface Elves: Lightblade, Thinblade, and Courtblade
Drow: Scorpion Chain, Long Knife*, Whip, and Whip Dagger
Dwarves: War Axe, War Pike, Urgosh, Buckler-Axe
Gnome: Quick-Razor, Tortoise Blade, Hammer Pick
Halfling: Skiprocks and War Sling
Kobold: Dire Pick*
Human: Bastard Sword, War Mace*
Goliath: Greathammer

*Unlike other weapons, racial familiarity allows these weapons to be treated as a simple weapon instead of a martial one.

and probably more that I don't know about.

If you aren't a member of one of the above races, or you want to be proficient in one of the above without being a member of that specific race, you take a feat to get proficiency as normal.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 12:22:28 PM by X-Codes »

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2011, 01:51:54 PM »
Well, I'd probably have gone with cultures rather than races, but then cultures and regions are setting specific.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2011, 02:31:27 PM »
looking at the historical reasons for the development of most weapons yields insight into what they might be categorized as. picking one subset not at random, most of the weird and offbeat weapons from asia were invented for extremely specific niche applications.

japanese off-center long/great bow: designed for calvary archers to give them the power of a larger bow, but be able to wield it from horseback.

nodachi: originally designed to cut down horses or the samurai on the horse, iirc.

sai: weapon catcher, breaker.

various chain / blade weapons: designed for use against horses, and heavily armored opponents who would have a hard time getting up unassisted.

south american native padded armor: lightweight, yet will turn a blade due to threadcount exceeding 2000-3000. Thick versions were known to stop tens of arrows, even native arrows which were quoted as having the same penetrating power as a crossbow if it did not hit metal armor...

maquahuitl sword of south america: oak broadsword edged with flint or obsidian glass blades all about. capable of decapitating a horse in a single blow (necessitating replacement of nearly all the blades on that side afterwards). Some were as long as the natives who wielded them (6-7' tall). Obsidian glass is one of the sharpest materials on earth, and being fragile will break off into wounds, leaving fragments to continue shredding sensitive flesh with every movement. capable of piercing and cutting cloth armor that metal blades will not cut.


anyway, the point is that "specialized" weapons (which is what we should call them, belike) were designed in response to specific situations. ninja's developed a lot of specialized weapons to deal with heavily armored and mounted samurai, and even studied samurai schools of martial arts. due to the fact that armored and mounted samurai are no longer a threat in the modern age, one head of a ninja descended family has recently declared that such specialized weapon techniques will no longer be taught in his dojo, or by his students, nor his school. there are a number of assassination weapons which have become popularized in martial flicks as regular weapons, which is an asian hollywood spin on an unlikely development.

rules-wise, specialized weapons should be advantageous in a niche situation, but penalized in normal combat, perhaps.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 02:34:46 PM by nijineko »

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2011, 02:49:46 PM »
Quote
nodachi: originally designed to cut down horses or the samurai on the horse, iirc.
Same as the Zweihander and the Zan-ma-dao. Its a two handed sword for elite infantry. The traits were that it was difficult to forge(because its a massive length of sharpened steel), expensive in material and train to wield, thus limiting it only to veteran and often noble warriors. They were used in sweeping blows(since it had an extra long hilt for leverage) to clear massed spear or pike infantry, gripped in half sword(they left unsharpened bits above the hilt to be used as secondary grips) to be used in the same way as a polearm(same length, only the whole thing is sharpened metal instead of just the tip). Chopping horses in half was mostly for showing off.
The latter is its anti-cavalry role, but its one of the few can truly be referred to as a superior weapon, in terms of both skill needed to wield it and versatility of role.

The others are mostly about right I think, though chain weapons had a use in dealing with heavier armored foes(because you could wind them up for greater blunt momentum, and you can use them to launch unexpected and very difficult to avoid attacks in tandem with your other hand).

The obsidian swords was mostly just to take advantage of a natural resource, they were horrifically sharp, and when armor was light and bereft of metal, their fragility wasn't as much a problem as it was for regular swords(which was designed to handle to some extent, a fair bit of bashing against other hard metals). Also it cut through flesh real nasty.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:59:57 PM by veekie »
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 03:21:48 PM »
This has inspired me to write a Tome-style EWP feat.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Fighter, Combat]
You have a knack for more esoteric weapons.
+1: As SRD EWP
+6: 1/2 penalty for wielding a weapon you aren't proficient in
+11: Use tome weapon training mechanic to become proficient in any weapons
+16:  Automatically proficient.
Which is ironic, because Tome gives you EWP for an DC 10 Int check after a week of practice.
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Offline X-Codes

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 08:08:51 PM »
I think the evolution of the nodachi was much simpler than that.  As time went on, the length of the longsword was pretty much limited by how long a given blacksmith could forge the blade, since longer was better while fighting in a wide-open area, especially from horseback.  Furthermore, as the length of the longsword got longer, the shortsword was used less as a backup weapon and more as a close-quarters combat weapon, which is more effective with a shorter blade.  The limit on this effectiveness was right around when you got to nodachi size, at which point other weapons are just plain better (basically, the nodachi is a fullblade).

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 11:25:41 PM »
Well, the larger blade could also be used in close quarters depending on the grip, though I think at that point you're hitting them with a sharpened bit of the pommel. Of course, in single combat, reach, especially reach with a fully sharp weapon, was the major hazard, and swords of that caliber are about the size of medium polearms.

The dead zone is very small, since unlike a polearm(which was significantly less effective once you got past the threat of the head and is going down the pole), the entire tip and length of blade could be used to attack with.

So, its somewhat more like a greatsword with a big critical multiplier, reach, which can be set against charges and the ability to still attack adjacent foes. Still, its one of the few that fits in exotic weapons as they appear to be meant, something difficult to learn and get but significantly more effective than the common weapons for warriors of the region.

Most of the ninja weapons are just farm tools though. Its why the ninjas used them, on the basis that you can't make carrying everyday work tools illegal.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline X-Codes

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2011, 01:53:56 PM »
The thing is, a larger blade means a slower attack, a bigger wind-up, a longer recovery, and limitations on how many different ways you can actually swing the thing.  You can bring up an attack with, say, a 60 cm sword from below easily enough, but you'd have to be really tall to manage that with an 80 cm sword, and it's basically impossible to do with a 100 cm sword, and nodachi are even longer than that.  Similarly, if you're fighting in a narrow alley or hallway, like often happened when you invaded castles or keeps, there's just not enough room to swing a field sword.  You'll just bang it on the walls.

It's not strictly about the dead zone the sword has, it's about another fighter being able to get close in while you recover and hit you before you've made your second strike.  This isn't an issue on horseback, and it's not always an issue on foot in the field, but it's just not practical in all settings, hence the shortsword.

Also, you'll note that Japan wasn't the only nation that had the trend of smaller shortswords.  In Renaissance Europe, there were a variety of settings where heavy armor and swords just wasn't practical, like onboard the cargo ships going to the new world, or against muskets.  That said, the need for a sword was still around because it took for-freaking-ever to reload a musket, and their accuracy was pretty terrible (which is why warfare was the way it was in the 18th century, one musket ball probably won't hit anything, but a wall of flying lead can take out an entire line of soldiers).  As such, a variety of light swords were made that enabled a wielder to make an attack without throwing off their balance, and what was eventually figured to be the best version of this weapon was the smallsword, since it was too fast to be blocked easily by the heavier rapier or colichemarde, and strong enough to knock away an attack from either (probably because of the quality of the steel being used in weapons at this time).

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2011, 02:08:20 PM »
Quote
The thing is, a larger blade means a slower attack, a bigger wind-up, a longer recovery, and limitations on how many different ways you can actually swing the thing.  You can bring up an attack with, say, a 60 cm sword from below easily enough, but you'd have to be really tall to manage that with an 80 cm sword, and it's basically impossible to do with a 100 cm sword, and nodachi are even longer than that.  Similarly, if you're fighting in a narrow alley or hallway, like often happened when you invaded castles or keeps, there's just not enough room to swing a field sword.  You'll just bang it on the walls.
Thats what half-swording is for, you grip it on an unsharpened part of the blade and use it as a stabbing weapon. Its basically a spear.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
Ok, I probably somewhat overstated the case on the big swords, but they can be used and effectively in close quarters, of course, dwarfed by the specialist close quarter thrusting blades.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline nijineko

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2011, 07:29:48 PM »
fascinating article, thank you for the find. =D

Offline veekie

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2011, 04:24:09 AM »
Funny enough I ran across that on a totally unrelated comic on danbooru.
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It's a god-eat-god world.

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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2011, 06:12:04 PM »
Regional ... how many regions are there so far in just Forgotten Realms ??

Racial ... let's say a minimum of 5 per race. Take a -1 (or more // or weird) penalty if you aren't that race.

Masterwork ... kinda boring right now, just some extra moolah to make. The whole category can be expanded and redone.

"Craft" weapons could do feel, flavor and mechanics differently from
... "Profession" weapons.

Improved , or Superior , or Epic ... typical word usage in feats.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: What to call "Exotic Weapons" except "Exotic?"
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2011, 06:27:16 PM »
in the dmg2 there was the whole dwarvencrafted, feycrafted, and so forth. I think that should be slotted into the same category as masterwork, but providing additional benefits: dwarvencraft is extra sturdy - maybe extra hardness and hp, feycraft is lightweight and flexible, so on and so forth. maybe have levels of masterwork, for additional bonuses.