Author Topic: [3.5] Erudite Power Purchasing  (Read 2197 times)

Offline Captnq

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[3.5] Erudite Power Purchasing
« on: February 12, 2016, 08:11:27 AM »
Off the top of my head, my answer was NO, however, the player made a good case and I need some feed back.

Erudites spend XP to purchase powers. So while they have a theoretical unlimited access to every arcane spell and power, actual circumstances limit them. However, the player pointed out that you can buy XPs to pay for magic items. Then I stated powers aren't magic items. Then she pointed out spellbooks can be in your head. I said still not a magic item. Then she pointed out grafting. Also, the fact that someone could craft a book to allow you to learn a +1 to a base ability, why not craft a book to teach you how to learn an erudite power?

So, I need a RAW/RAI assessment of this.

Can you pay someone else 5x the GP value of the XP needed to learn a new power as an erudite? If so, why? If not, why?

I need a proof either way, because while technically I have to say no, the rules on Wondrous Items lead me to believe that I see so reason why someone couldn't craft an item to do just that. And if I'm allowing a wondrous item to do the same thing, whynot skip the middle man and allow XP transfer directly to pay for it?
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: [3.5] Erudite Power Purchasing
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 02:28:55 PM »
Chameleon Crafting feat in Dr#349
crosses the magic/psi border, not
needing StP or t.o.-ish Magic Mantle.
So anything Arcane based, say like
the Bag Of Tricks, can get over to psi.

Are there any magic items existing,
that don't need spells at all to craft,
but be something that has spells in it?

(goes and looks, like I ought'a answer my own question first)
semi-example

Psi guy could help craft a Rod Of Wonder
supplying 2 or even 3 of the pre-reqs
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#wonder
... presumably that item would be Psi
and there's some new spells in it.
Then use those to make ~random powerstones.
And then learn the power from the powerstone.
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Offline Maelphaxerazz

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Re: [3.5] Erudite Power Purchasing
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 06:27:47 PM »
RAW, no. Nonstandard wondrous items are up to the GM's discretion, and there is nothing in RAW that requires or suggests that this is a thing that can (or cannot) be done. There is no rule in any book that says you can pay GP=5*XPcost instead of XP in all circumstances. What the Erudite does is, as you pointed out, not a spell, power, item or graft, so there is no rule written anywhere that asks or requires this to be allowed. Furthermore, in terms of "hiring someone else to give you powers," there is an actual power for that: Psychic Chirurgery. The problem? Psychic Chirurgery is a 9th level power and costs a whopping 1000 XP per power level. That is the most direct comparison if you use the "hiring an NPC caster" as a parallel, and hiring an NPC psion to give an erudite powers with Psychic Chirurgery is usually more expensive than 5×20×Erudite level (unless your Erudite level is very high).

RAI... maybe. The 5GP per point of XP alternative does come in more than one place, so it could be applied as a standard. Apart from hiring NPCs to cast spells, it shows up in power components to cast spells yourself (Dragon 317), and as an alternative to XP costs for prestige race alterations (Dragon 304 p49, sidebar). It certainly wouldn't be like hiring an NPC to give you powers because the XP cost for an erudite to learn powers is based on the erudite's level, not the level of another character. However, it could be compared to using power components: the erudite in question purchases special psychically-charged objects and drugs to learn the power.

In short: RAW no, RAI maybe, allow or disallow at your discretion.

Offline linklord231

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Re: [3.5] Erudite Power Purchasing
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 10:21:46 PM »
You can make a custom Wondrous Item that does literally anything. 
Quote from: DMG pg 246
Wondrous items can be configured to do just about anything from create a breeze to improve ability scores.

First let's think about such an item from a crunch perspective.  We know that the final market price has to be 100 x the level of the user (which in itself is weird, nothing else scales like that).  Figure that includes the 30% discount for adding a requirement that the user be an Erudite, so the base price is actually 130 x the level of the user. 
Since the final cost scales based off the user, that means the cost and time to create also scale off the user, so every item would have to be special ordered.  Additionally, the creator needs to have access to the power to be taught, so you'd probably have to bring him a Power Stone, presumably purchased elsewhere (an Erudite paying XP needs to pay this cost as well). 
So you'd end up with something like this:
Quote
Repertoire Stone
Through a laborious psionic process, a Power Stone can be converted into a Repertoire Stone.  An Erudite can use a Repertoire Stone to permanently add a psionic power contained within to his Repertoire.  Doing so requires 8 hours of meditation, which must be spent consecutively.  At the end of that time, the power is permanently added to his Repertoire, and the Repertoire Stone becomes inert. 
Each Repertoire Stone is keyed to a certain combination of the level of the user and the psionic power to be learned.  For example, a Repertoire Stone intended to teach Crystal Shard to a 1st level Erudite would be different than one intended to teach that same power to a 2nd level Erudite.  A character cannot use a Repertoire Stone that does not correspond to his Erudite class level, or to learn a power that he could not manifest, or to learn a discipline power of a level greater than one level lower than the highest level power he can manifest. 
Construction: Craft Universal Item, 65 gp/level of the user, 2 XP/level of the user, and the power stone to be converted (subsumed in creation)
Price: 100 gp/level of the intended user

But, before allowing this item, consider:  What happens if a non-Erudite uses UPD to emulate the "Powers Discovered (Repertoire)" class feature of an Erudite? 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.