Author Topic: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC  (Read 7869 times)

Offline 10d10

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[PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« on: February 28, 2012, 12:04:19 PM »
Hi guys :D

This may be a quick question, but, as DM, what are the best options to damage the player's armor class? More importantly: the AC of a VERY heavy armored character (tower shield and plate armor)? What advantages could you take from their encumbered characters?

Any monster, spell or tactic from 3.5 and Pathfinder are welcomed.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 12:15:17 PM »
Rust Monster, Rusting Grasp.
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Offline Aliek

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 12:19:12 PM »
Touch attacks should work, too.

Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 12:19:35 PM »
Rust Monster, Rusting Grasp.

Uhh this one is so evil. Its awesome  :clap

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 12:28:08 PM »
Rust Monster, Rusting Grasp.

Uhh this one is so evil. Its awesome  :clap

As a weird alternative, if you're open to homebrew and are including incarnum, my Warpsoul includes the Rusted Cap soulmeld along with a lot of other fun bizarrity.
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Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 12:34:36 PM »
Rust Monster, Rusting Grasp.

Uhh this one is so evil. Its awesome  :clap

As a weird alternative, if you're open to homebrew and are including incarnum, my Warpsoul includes the Rusted Cap soulmeld along with a lot of other fun bizarrity.

Yes I could easily use that as a "corrupted human" or someone who dwell where he shouldn't. Thanks!

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 12:52:18 PM »
The easier question would be how do you not do that? Without some serious and heavy houseruling everyone is hit on a 2 anyways. In PF any amount of AC might as well be AC 10 as it doesn't even protect you from full PAs anymore.

Even if for some reason that were not true any sort of attack other than physical attacks vs normal AC including physical attacks vs touch AC still work perfectly or perhaps even better than perfectly if they foolishly sacrificed real abilities for AC.

Not to mention guy holding a tower shield? You don't have to shut him down - he did that to himself. Walk around, kill everyone else, kill him at your leisure.

Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 01:25:26 PM »
You have a point there, BB, but... sorry for asking what's PA? Physical attacks?

Offline Basket Burner

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 01:27:56 PM »
You have a point there, BB, but... sorry for asking what's PA? Physical attacks?

Power Attack.

www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3498.msg47102#msg47102

Offline Balmas

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 02:06:17 PM »
Consider some kind of poison or monster that does dexterity damage.  Funny thing about heavy armor:  If you have a high Dexterity, you only get a portion of the bonus.  If you have a low dexterity, you suffer the full consequences.  Chances are, if a character wears heavy armor and has a tower shield, his dexterity is pretty average anyway. Depending on the level of the characters and how optimized they are, you may have an easier time with monsters than poisons.  At low levels, poison is easier.  Terinav Root does the most, at 1d6/2d6 Dex damage, with a DC 16 fort save to resist.  Giant Wasp poison is the toughest to resist, at a DC 18 fort save for 1d6/1d6 dex damage.  (It's also the cheapest, at 210 GP per dose.)  Once the PCs get access to restoration though, you're going  to have to pull out some bigger guns.  The fact the poison usually has a 10-round incubation time is also difficult.

About what level is the PC in question?  That will influence what monster/poison you need to throw at him.

Monsters with Dexterity drain/damage
CR 1  Ghoul: poison, 1d3 dex and 1d3 con
CR 5  Spider Eater:  While strictly speaking does not do dex damage, it paralyzes the creature, and that's the affect we're going for.
CR 10  Formian Monarch: 2d6/2d6 dex damage, fort save 20 to resist.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:17:06 PM by Balmas »
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Offline Rejakor

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 04:07:36 PM »
Yep, it's like Roy, but not smart. 


Rust monsters have been mentioned, as have touch attacks, but consider disarming the shield.  That's always fun.  Surprise attacks (he sleeps in armour?  start leveling fatigue penalties) at night will catch the player unarmoured, tripping the player will reduce AC by 4 (prone, plus, tripping is a touch attack), grappling monsters don't care about anything other than touch AC, pit and floor traps don't care about AC, neither do many magical traps...

Seriously, though, this character has invested a lot in his AC, hopefully, so let him enjoy the fruits of it.  If the party is creaming encounters because of his AC, just up the amount of enemies so while he's tanking the pirate captain everyone else still has to deal with the ship's mage, the corsair crewmen and whatever else.  i.e. you can always avoid his AC, by using alternate attack forms or mobile enemies who move past him to strike other party members, but don't.  i.e. walk the line between letting him dominate encounters by taking all the hits from the monster(s) and making him feel useless by not letting him do anything, by designing encounters where he can be useful without dominating the show.  Easiest way to do this is more enemies so he can block/tank some, but not all, or enemies he has to chase around the area (while benny hill music plays with him chasing the monster chasing the wizard) etc etc.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 04:15:47 PM »
grappling monsters don't care about anything other than touch AC,

As the guy who wrote the grappling handbook, I should really have suggested this (though in my defense you did say ways to reduce AC, and destroying armor is a permanent way to do that ;) ).
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 04:28:52 PM »
Shivering Touch, especially if maximized or empowered.  White dragons would seem especially fond of it.

Offline Endarire

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 04:40:08 PM »
Ray of cloumsiness (Spell Compendium 166) and Enervation.

Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 05:23:28 PM »
About what level is the PC in question?  That will influence what monster/poison you need to throw at him.

The party is at level 6 :)


I'm taking note of all those ideas. I think the poison/ability damage thing will do so many great things to the whole party....  :D

Offline SneeR

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 02:41:05 AM »
tripping
entangling (reduces DEX bonus)
shivering touch will take on average 7 DEX away, a -3 penalty to AC and Initiative
grease removes DEX bonus without balance ranks
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Offline veekie

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 04:47:01 AM »
Better idea I think is to go with Rejakor's  suggestion, multiple foes that ping through his defenses, or around him while he blockades a few. Wolf pack tactics, where several enemies limit his mobility physically(say a pair flanking him), and then other high mobility enemies harry his allies.
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Offline 10d10

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 07:08:07 AM »
Better idea I think is to go with Rejakor's  suggestion, multiple foes that ping through his defenses, or around him while he blockades a few. Wolf pack tactics, where several enemies limit his mobility physically(say a pair flanking him), and then other high mobility enemies harry his allies.

Yes, Rejakor's idea helped me personally on other levels too. It's always good to remember balancing the challenges... and that there are always traps which will be highly beneficial for the Rogue to shine. And I have to remember that the guy must have his moments of being a badass tanker.

But it seems that a fight with a few (competent) enemies should do the trick to.

(and for the moment of despair there's always rust monsters)

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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 09:10:59 AM »
Yep, it's like Roy, but not smart. 
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Re: [PF+3.5] Breaking the AC
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 10:08:19 AM »
how bout leaving ac alone and attack w/ will saves.
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