How about a recovery mechanism based on taking damage? Basically deal damage to self to recover a maneuver based on the maneuver's level... and then a feat to allow others to take the damage for you, but has to be willing. Then you can perform neg energy maneuvers on yourself to heal.
Which one's Twin Soul? That's the one Prime made about working together with your animal companion/special mount/whatever, right?It seems I meant Twin Spirit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40991). Mounted shenanigans by TDO.
I'm having a little trouble with the Death Knight, actually, as you can probably tell by all the mish-mashed ideas sitting in that post. I'll probably wind up doing most of them as ACFs for whatever I do settle on down the line. Right now I'm dissatisfied with the Knight's Challenge/Command thing because it's like an alternate resource and martial adepts should be focused on their maneuvers, right? Also along those lines, it eats up swift actions that the DK should be spending on boosts instead. Only, I still don't know what to replace it with. So I'm a little stuck.I'll take a look at it and brainstorm a little.
Just found this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes/knight-of-the-sepulcher). Seems like a very good start to base the "turn into an undead" abilities off of.
Posted martial ghost abilities and the Tomb of Battle magical location.1st-level counter that gives you a bonus to resist grapples, bull rushes, trips, etc. because it locks your joints and thickens your skeleton momentarily.
Restless Bones is just missing a 1st level maneuver and a 5th-6th level stance. I'm kinda stumped on both. Any ideas?
I'll go over everything then, why not. I've turned into Strat's personal homebrew reviewer so I can do that for you also, I figure I've helped enough with other projects of yours to turn my attention tothis.
We'll start with the Death Knight.
I'm AFB, I'm going to assume the maneuver and stance progressions are appropriate.
The capstone could probably use Cha to Hp since it's a melee class.
Other than that it's a solid class, nothing exciting but it fills its theme well.
As for the mount list...
You should have some text about how undead steeds can't be turned while being ridden by the Death Knight (like in the Bone Knight (http://alcyius.com/dndtools/classes/bone-knight/index.html) PrC).
According to something I read (I'm AFB), DMG page 204 has paladin alternative mounts. Paladins can get a Unicorn at 6 so Fiendish Unicorn at 8 isn't out of the question (although yeah you want some text saying that the anti-evil abilities are now anti-good). You can also probably get away with having Nightmare as a lower level mount, just say it doesn't get the astral projection or etherealness abilities. Say around 8 since that's when the other flying mounts come into play (that's a gut reaction).
Yeth Hound is pretty much superior to Hell Hound in all ways.
The megaraptor feels kind of forced.
I don't see any issue with the skeleton options, same with the zombie ones (zombies are only good as mounts, can't even get good combat options there).
Haha, nice. Okay, I didn't realize that kind of thing was normal (afb again due to work).
Time to go over Restless Bones.
Bone dance could use a reference for the returned template.
I like Corpsecrafter. Too bad you can't dual stance with Desecration.
Since you've got rushes you should probably copy the rush rules from whoever/wherever (I can't remember who on the board first homebrewed them). Just a quick blurb about what a rush is, etc.
All in all I like it, it wasn't what I was expecting from the name but it works well as a debuff/control discipline and is very thematic.
Or a book reference or whatever. A quick google search didn't come up with anything so I'm not sure where it's from.Haha, nice. Okay, I didn't realize that kind of thing was normal (afb again due to work).
Time to go over Restless Bones.
Bone dance could use a reference for the returned template.
You mean like a link to it?
QuoteI like Corpsecrafter. Too bad you can't dual stance with Desecration.
Can't have everything :(
I may need to find a way to add more temporary animation maneuvers, though. Without dual stances or anything, it looks like Desecration only innately works with Bone Puppet and Grave Walking. Great for supporting other necromancers in your party, though.
QuoteSince you've got rushes you should probably copy the rush rules from whoever/wherever (I can't remember who on the board first homebrewed them). Just a quick blurb about what a rush is, etc.
That would be me. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1191)
All three disciplines use rushes, so I'll just put a note and a link in the index, I think.
QuoteAll in all I like it, it wasn't what I was expecting from the name but it works well as a debuff/control discipline and is very thematic.
Thanks. Out of curiosity, what were you expecting from the name?
Fair enough, if you decide that the extra damage is too much I'll understand now that I've got a frame of reference.
Okay, onto the rest.
I have no extra comments on the location (apparently I corrected a typo long ago).
The ghost powers look alright although I know next to nothing about D&D ghost powers.
Tomb Guardian looks fine for its CR.
Returned looks fine. As far as I can tell it's just a skeleton template if you want the target to retain Disciplines/Maneuvers?
Amalgam Damage:
It's pretty self-explanatory but there seem to be some odd gaps for no reason. I'm only looking at combinations, not what makes sense or the names or anything else.
(This is in no particular order, just how I'm organizing my thoughts.)
You've got Negative/Positive, okay that makes sense.
Then there's Cold/Negative and Fire/Positive, opposites.
But then Acid/Negative all by itself for some reason.
On to straight energy types (acid, cold, fire, electricity, sonic).
There's only Sonic/Electricity, this makes sense thematically and I'm A-OK with it.
For the rest everything combines with everything but we don't get Cold/Electricity.
Next the Energy/Physical combos.
Sonic/Slashing is the only slashing combo. Any particular reason?
And the only one not to get Bludgeoning is Electricity, again seems odd.
Cold/Piercing makes sense thematically, I can life with it.
Then there's Fire/Untyped (Mind-affecting). That one just feels out of nowhere.
For now I'll just use the pared down version currently posted with just the amalgam types used here (uttercold and spirit). I've got a post in the general Homebrew and House Rules board for the concept as a whole.
You guys let me know when you want my input again. :p
Are you really worried about the Bonestings making multiple attacks? Because unlike the ToB strikes (at least off the top of my head), the attack bonus (and thus the likelihood of hitting) is going to be far lower, especially when you're taking about Cage of Wicked Bones. By then, with only a +6, unless you're buffing them using something else, there's monsters where unless they roll a 20 they aren't hitting. Now, if there's a really lucky round, they can certainly stack damage, but otherwise, I wouldn't be worried about it.
- Veil of Lashing Bones (strike 4th-5th): Summon up to 3 Bonestings in contiguous spaces. They gain bonus hit points equal to your IL and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL. No more than one Bonesting can attack the same target, so they may not all be able to attack. The Bonestings remain until the start of your next turn.
- Cage of Wicked Bones (strike 6th-7th): Summon up to 8 Bonestings in spaces adjacent to target creature. If there are not enough open spaces, you cannot summon them all. They gain bonus hit points equal to your IL and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL. No more than one Bonesting can attack the same target, so they may not all be able to attack. The Bonestings remain until the start of your next turn.
If you have any ideas for undead that would work well with maneuvers (and/or the maneuvers they might work well with), I'd love to see what you come up with. Who knows? We might even come up with enough for another martial discipline, one focused entirely on summoning and creating undead!
You guys let me know when you want my input again. :p
Are you really worried about the Bonestings making multiple attacks? Because unlike the ToB strikes (at least off the top of my head), the attack bonus (and thus the likelihood of hitting) is going to be far lower, especially when you're taking about Cage of Wicked Bones. By then, with only a +6, unless you're buffing them using something else, there's monsters where unless they roll a 20 they aren't hitting. Now, if there's a really lucky round, they can certainly stack damage, but otherwise, I wouldn't be worried about it.
- Veil of Lashing Bones (strike 4th-5th): Summon up to 3 Bonestings in contiguous spaces. They gain bonus hit points equal to your IL and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL. No more than one Bonesting can attack the same target, so they may not all be able to attack. The Bonestings remain until the start of your next turn.
- Cage of Wicked Bones (strike 6th-7th): Summon up to 8 Bonestings in spaces adjacent to target creature. If there are not enough open spaces, you cannot summon them all. They gain bonus hit points equal to your IL and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL. No more than one Bonesting can attack the same target, so they may not all be able to attack. The Bonestings remain until the start of your next turn.
QuoteIf you have any ideas for undead that would work well with maneuvers (and/or the maneuvers they might work well with), I'd love to see what you come up with. Who knows? We might even come up with enough for another martial discipline, one focused entirely on summoning and creating undead!
I would have a blast creating that kind of discipline. Step 1 idea - Do you remember the different minor boosts in the back of Libris Mortis to create faste/hot/cold/etc. skeletons and zombies? Have something similar be the boosts for the discipline. So the 1st level strike summons a zombie human and the boost makes all zombies you summoned that round deal 1d6 extra fire damage.
Or switch it up, and have a discipline focused almost entirely on boosts. So the boost gives you the undead (say a Gnoll Skeleton to keep it simple). And then the strike is something like this "As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack. If it hits, each undead summon you control deals an extra 1d6 damage if they hit the same target this round." Counters would be something like this "As an immediate action, you can leap behind an adjacent undead. Treat the attack against you as if it was made against that undead. In addition, take a 5 ft. step. You must remain adjacent to the attacked undead."
Emphasis on the "and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL". No point in summoning things with the ability to attack if they don't have a reasonable attack roll. Otherwise, you're just wasting the time of everyone at the table.
Never read Libris Mortis, but that idea sounds fun.
It would need something else for 1st-level maneuvers. A boost that summons a creature to do much more than just be a flank buddy is definitely level 2 at least. You might get away with it as a 1st-level boost if it doesn't do anything on its own, but still stays around long enough for a strike like Flanking Maneuver (WR 5) or Swarming Assault (WR 7) to trigger a minor attack from it. That said, I think the strikes doing the summoning and the boosts mostly just giving bonuses is the better way to go, at least for the lower-level maneuvers.
Emphasis on the "and a bonus on attack rolls equal to your IL". No point in summoning things with the ability to attack if they don't have a reasonable attack roll. Otherwise, you're just wasting the time of everyone at the table.
Well that was me being blind. What happens with AoOs? Does that still run into the 1 bonesting limit? Because I could see it being interpreted as voluntary attacks vs all attacks.
QuoteNever read Libris Mortis, but that idea sounds fun.
Here's a sample. (LM 162)
Fiery Skeleton
A fiery skeleton burns with unquenchable flame. Variants of the fiery skeleton include the lightning skeleton (deals electricity damage, immunity to electricity) and the frost skeleton (deals cold damage, immunity to cold).
Attack: A fiery skeleton’s natural attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.
Special Qualities: Fiery skeletons have immunity to fire, but do not have immunity to cold.
CR Adjustment: +1/2
So the boost would be something like this (first run, obviously)
Elemental Infusion
The Dead Walk (Boost) [See below]
Level: The Dead Walk 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: None
When you initiate this maneuver, choose, Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire. For the duration of this maneuver, any undead you create gain this subtype, replacing any normal elemental immunity with immunity to the chose element, and dealing 1d6 damage of the appropriate type on each of their natural attacks.
QuoteIt would need something else for 1st-level maneuvers. A boost that summons a creature to do much more than just be a flank buddy is definitely level 2 at least. You might get away with it as a 1st-level boost if it doesn't do anything on its own, but still stays around long enough for a strike like Flanking Maneuver (WR 5) or Swarming Assault (WR 7) to trigger a minor attack from it. That said, I think the strikes doing the summoning and the boosts mostly just giving bonuses is the better way to go, at least for the lower-level maneuvers.
Eh, I don't know, a CR 1/2 or 1/4 skeleton showing up for one round isn't that big a deal at 1st level. Especially a zombie with their limited actions. Especially if you use a strike that would have you give up your standard action that round, basically handing it over to the summon instead. It would be kind of interesting to see an initiator who mostly strikes from the back, avoiding being in actual melee combat and letting his minions do the work for him.
The Dead Walk
Looks mostly good. Sacrificial Minion needs to explicitly state that the attack gets (or can get) redirected against the undead you swap places with instead of being lost entirely if you're no longer in range.
Allegiance Eternal's duration boost is too powerful with short-duration summoning maneuvers. If a stance can multiply the effects of your strikes by 2-6, it or a similar option will to be functionally mandatory. Either the summons will be too strong with 2-6 rounds of attacks and abilities and clogging up the battlefield, or they'll be too weak with only 1 round to be worth using (or both). The damage and AC bonus looks fine, though. If it was just +damage and +AC, I might even argue it to be slightly weak compared to some of the White Raven stances (+IL damage when charging, +IL/2 damage when flanking).
I'll hold off on comments until it's more fleshed out.
Just because the SRD is poorly written doesn't mean that I think it is acceptable. You should know that by now. :p
As for swelling corpse, I just assumed you wrote a duration and meant permanent like with the others.
Your lack of standardization is weird, as is your organizing. :P
Question: Do you control yourself? If you are undead, could you not benefit from Necrotic Frenzy and all those other maneuvers and stances that boost undead under your control? If not, do you just need to cast a Command Undead spell on yourself (which, actually, might not be a bad idea in general to better resist if someone else tries to command you)?
Quote from: GarrylQuestion: Do you control yourself? If you are undead, could you not benefit from Necrotic Frenzy and all those other maneuvers and stances that boost undead under your control? If not, do you just need to cast a Command Undead spell on yourself (which, actually, might not be a bad idea in general to better resist if someone else tries to command you)?
Wait, this is a thing you can do? I don't know how to feel about that.
Quote from: GarrylQuestion: Do you control yourself? If you are undead, could you not benefit from Necrotic Frenzy and all those other maneuvers and stances that boost undead under your control? If not, do you just need to cast a Command Undead spell on yourself (which, actually, might not be a bad idea in general to better resist if someone else tries to command you)?
Wait, this is a thing you can do? I don't know how to feel about that.
I seem to recall something about if multiple casters control the same creature, whoever wins an opposed check (Charisma check?) gets control for the round. So if you magically have control over yourself, you'd get said opposed check if someone manages to charm or dominate you or whatever. I can't remember where I saw it though. It might have been an FAQ, or in the Rules Compendium, or just somewhere in the SRD that I don't remember.
Edit: Found it. It's under Multiple Mental Control Effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects).
Quote from: GarrylQuestion: Do you control yourself? If you are undead, could you not benefit from Necrotic Frenzy and all those other maneuvers and stances that boost undead under your control? If not, do you just need to cast a Command Undead spell on yourself (which, actually, might not be a bad idea in general to better resist if someone else tries to command you)?
Wait, this is a thing you can do? I don't know how to feel about that.
I seem to recall something about if multiple casters control the same creature, whoever wins an opposed check (Charisma check?) gets control for the round. So if you magically have control over yourself, you'd get said opposed check if someone manages to charm or dominate you or whatever. I can't remember where I saw it though. It might have been an FAQ, or in the Rules Compendium, or just somewhere in the SRD that I don't remember.
Edit: Found it. It's under Multiple Mental Control Effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects).
You don't tell me what to do, I tell me what to do!
:lmao
This is such a weird idea, casting a dominate spell on yourself so no one else can dominate you. How does that even work? You end up in a recursive loop of "I have to tell myself to act so I can tell myself to act." It's turtles all the way down... :twitch
Bunker: Is it possible to destroy the bunker? Or is it considered part of the creature?
Also, I'll be taking another pass at The Dead Walk shortly - it needs requirements added, among other things.
Edit: Pass done, requirements added. Unless you two have more suggestions, the only last thing I'm thinking about doing is pulling out the Allegiance X maneuvers and swapping in two replacements.
The lashing spires gain a bonus on their attack rolls and gain additional hit points equal to your initiator level. You can direct them not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions, as part of initiating this maneuver.
I think that your undead summoning maneuvers can take a lesson from Garryl's spire maneuvers.QuoteThe lashing spires gain a bonus on their attack rolls and gain additional hit points equal to your initiator level. You can direct them not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions, as part of initiating this maneuver.
On the other hand, I could bake in something like "When summoned, the undead receives a bonus on its attack rolls and additional hit points equal to your initiator level minus the maneuver level." Which at least reduces the bonus for the big hitters at the top.
I'm iffy on the 5th level boost but I like the concept the 8th level one (offhand unsure of exact balance as written).
Are the Death Knight ACF's going to be finished or scrapped?
I like the flavor behind Motivate Through Fear.
Rejected by Death should have some text about how it interacts with being undead at 20th level and being destroyed at 0 hp.
Death Lord sounds awesome. Then again, I'm biased.
SirP made an animal companion/mount discipline but I checked it out and it is nature focused which doesn't match the theme of this project.
All the prestige classes sound interesting actually.
Is there a normal action listed with giving orders to undead minions?
The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead.
There should be an ACF to remove the mount since mounts don't work for all campaigns, but I'm not sure what it would do.
Okay, on disciplines. The way I see it, we have two basic options.
Option 1
Undying Call - Wis
Restless Bones - Str and/or Cha
Frozen Night - Cha
Death Knight needs three stats total for DCs: Wis, Str, and Cha.
Spirit Warrior needs two stats total for DCs since Devoted Spirit doesn't count: Wis and Str.
Option 2
Undying Call - Cha
Restless Bones - Str and/or Cha
Frozen Night - Cha
Death Knight needs two stats, Str and Cha
Spirit Warrior needs two stats, Str and Cha
I like option two, it makes a lot of sense. I don't think that having Cha be the main class ability stat for both classes will be a bad thing. Charisma is always thematically a big deal for undead and I think that switching Spirit Warrior to Cha will make more sense to people reading it since Incorporeal undead have always been based on Charisma.
As for how to do Restless Bones, I think that 1 or 3 would be the way to go, and I can see either one being valid. 3 would probably make the most sense from a logical perspective.
Of course you do. :p
Bonesmithing/Craft Magic Bone Armaments - Flavorful and powerful.
Lingering Chill - I was going to poo-poo this feat but then I remembered how many area cold attacks Lingering Chill has.
Overflowing Spirit - I like this one, it's a very good feat with some steep requirements for it to apply.