OOC Discussion thread

[dna1]

Cool.  I'm looking at traits and flaws that fit thematically, and found a few in Dragon 324 that could be cool and slightly more interesting than the usual Shaky/Murkey Eyed/Vulnerable.
Specifically: Love of Nature (requires a DC 12 Will save in order to attack Plant, Animal, and Vermin creatures) and Bestial Instinct (attacks made with weapons other than unarmed strike and natural attacks take -2 penalty).

I approve the two you have selected. As zook mentioned I wont be allowing anything like chicken infested ( although it is cool )

In line with everyone else, i think i'm going with a Shifter as well. A Shifter Wilder, going gish. Build to come later today. Question: The Mind's Eye web enhancements are 3.5, that means they are a go? I think the restriction is only for 3.0 web enhancements, but not sure.

EDIT: Is Chaos Monk from Dragon 335 allowed? Are you of the school of thought that Improved Natural Attack applies to a monk's fists?

The Minds Eye web enhancement should be fine.
I don't have that Dragon on hand.. remind me again the difference between the Chaos monk and the normal one. There was something about a random number of attacks right? Or was that something else? And yes I would agree that Imp Nat Attk applies to a monks fist.

I decided to go with the human Crusader with the Mark of Sentinel.

Should I aim for a standard LockSader (Thicket of Blades + AoO tripping) or sword and board focused on the healing maneuvers? I am pending on the first one...

Well I don't mind that build.. but it's one of those builds that work much better in a real life game. For a PbP I would need to supply you guys with the monsters info, so you could roll your own opposed trips for the monster. Just so the game wouldn't slow down to a crawl every time there was a battle.
But due to the nature of Ravenloft, and monsters being corrupted by the Dark Powers, some enemys will have extra abilitys and what not. So I wont be giving out any monster info I don't have to. That being the case you might want to consider your second build, or something else all together.

+1 on the reasonable Dragon magazine flaws and traits (no chicken infested tricks).

So I'm thinking a N/NG Sparrow Hengeyokai Scout 6 of the Wild Union sect.

I'm sooo tempted to go into the Believers of the Source reincarnation PrC, but it get super crazy n hard to RP

Yup sounds good. Keep in mind while your making him though, that Ravenloft tends to get overrun with mist. So visibility can be at times as low as 5'ft.

Although I haven't posted before, I am interested (as I was in the earlier 2 Ravenloft games you started, dna1  ). I do worry that I won't have enough time, though, as I'm a father of 2, am starting med school on Aug 1, and we're just closing on a new house... which means I'll be moving and our internet connection may be interrupted for a bit during the move...

I'm considering a bard, which would probably go along with much of what I'm hearing from the others.

Edit: Build stub

Glimmerfolk savage bard 4/warblade 1/spellsword 1
Feats: Requiem, Wild Cohort, Song of the Heart, Song of the White Raven

Hey phae! Good to see you again. You're always welcome to jump in, grats on the house and whatnot. A bard would fit great.. and with the Mists I can move people in and out easily. So if you are up for it then feel free to continue sketching out a build.
EDIT: But I'm not liking that race much..  A native outsider, with some very decent SLA's seems like bit much for a +0 ecl. I guess maybe if you promised no alter self/polymorph type shenanigans I could consider it

Truth be told I've never been to fond of the Psionics in D&D.. I am familiar with the basics, but I haven't read any of the 3rd party stuff. I actually don't have those books in my collection either.. sorry.

But Soulbows are ok with you, right?
Sent you the first part of the backstory. Will post the first version of the sheet here tonight.

Yup no problem. I replied to your pm also.




K guys as I mentioned before, on Friday I will choose the players. Then everyone will have 1 week roughly to collaborate and finish builds. So don't worry about posting up a completely finished character yet.

[brujon]

It's basically that's what different. Instead of Flurry of Blows they get what's called "Flailing Attack". Here's the scanned page relevant to the discussion, for reference http://pt.scribd.com/doc/119726573/chaos-monk . And it's Chaotic instead of Lawful, so it's helpful for bypassing alignment issues, especially when multiclassing with Barbarian, which kind of is my intent.

I'm having trouble with my build though... Taking some effort in order to cram what i want in the build and make it effective without turning it into a one-trick pony... Grapplers are tough!

[Nanshork]

It seems I just don't have time to make a character so I'm dropping out of consideration.

[dna1]

It's basically that's what different. Instead of Flurry of Blows they get what's called "Flailing Attack". Here's the scanned page relevant to the discussion, for reference http://pt.scribd.com/doc/119726573/chaos-monk . And it's Chaotic instead of Lawful, so it's helpful for bypassing alignment issues, especially when multiclassing with Barbarian, which kind of is my intent.

I'm having trouble with my build though... Taking some effort in order to cram what i want in the build and make it effective without turning it into a one-trick pony... Grapplers are tough!

Alrighty, chaos monk should be fine then.

It seems I just don't have time to make a character so I'm dropping out of consideration.

Well thanks for the consideration anyways 

[Nanshork]

It seems I just don't have time to make a character so I'm dropping out of consideration.

Well thanks for the consideration anyways 

Of course!  If you haven't noticed I like Ravenloft.   

[Scout89]

Here's the first version of my sheet:

(click to show/hide)

RIEK (WIP)
Race: Human
Ht: 5'3" , Wt: 190lb

Riek is a failed pirate who joined a kalashtar force whose main objective was to liberate riedran people from the Inspired. They seemed to succeed when he and the others were scattered across the multiverse.
Character Sheet
M Lawful Neutral Human Soulknife/Psychic Warrior/Soulbow, Level 3/2/1, Init +3, HP 40/40, Speed 30

(click to show/hide)

3 x 1d10+1
2 x 1d8+1

AC 20, Touch 13, Flat-footed 17, Fort +6, Ref +9, Will +11, Base Attack Bonus 3   
  Mind Arrow +9 (1d8+5, x3)
  Mind Blade +1 (1d6-1,x2/19-20)
  +1 chain shirt,   +1 Light Steel Round Shield (+5 Armor, +2 Shield, +3 Dex)
Abilities Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 17+3, Cha 10
Condition None

[linklord231]

How do you feel about the City Brawler Barbarian from Dragon 349?  Trades armor and weapon proficiency for Improved Unarmed Strike (the feat, not the Monk ability) and TWF that only functions with UAS. 

I'm not terribly attached to this one, but I think unarmed fits his flavor better than using a manufactured weapon, especially with the Bestial Instinct flaw.

[phaedrusxy]

Hey phae! Good to see you again. You're always welcome to jump in, grats on the house and whatnot. A bard would fit great.. and with the Mists I can move people in and out easily. So if you are up for it then feel free to continue sketching out a build.
EDIT: But I'm not liking that race much..  A native outsider, with some very decent SLA's seems like bit much for a +0 ecl. I guess maybe if you promised no alter self/polymorph type shenanigans I could consider it

Well... seeing as how I authored the Alter Self handbook, that's exactly what I was aiming for. I thought "Hmm... are there any LA0 outsiders besides those stupid slaad knockoffs?" and one google search later, I found those.

I actually like the idea of a "radiance touched" outsider who somehow gets trapped in the "dark" lands of Ravenloft, though. I'd be perfectly happy to say he had his "light" stripped away (i.e. lost his ability to use the SLAs), if I still get the outsider type (and can use Alter Self with it ).

Is it possible to go to Ravenloft on purpose, or send someone? I'm thinking of the following backstory: 

(click to show/hide)

his hometown (on the Plane of Radiance) was somehow overtaken and overrun by vampires, which had somehow "darkened" it (his hometown, not the whole plane), and (his family feared) were planning to use it as a staging ground to darken the rest of the plane, hence removing the source of all light in the multiverse. His family/town elders/etc (mistakenly?) believed that the source of the invasion was Ravenloft, and sent through a group of their finest warriors to try and stop it at its source. He himself was not one of these warriors, but was rather their chronicler and herald. Of course... the band of warriors drew a lot of the wrong kind of attention, given the nature of the plane they'd invaded, and were relatively quickly and soundly defeated, leaving the herald trapped there to be the only one to grieve for them, and wonder what has happened to his homeworld.

Since I'd imagine not much is known about Ravenloft outside of the plane itself, since no one ever leaves, I'd imagine it could be pretty easy for those on the outside to not know that it is in fact nearly impossible to leave, and therefore launching an invasion from there would be preposterous... So likely (Mercutio?) and his band of warriors were sent on a fool's errand, as the invasion wasn't even from Ravenloft in the first place...

[zook1shoe]

Got my backstory finished

(click to show/hide)

Zero Wolf
CG Sparrow Hengeyokai Scout 6

He appears as a midnight black haired smaller man with sharp fingernails. In his hybrid form, he has a black bird's head. In animal form, he appears a tiny black-headed sparrow.

Zero Wolf, as part of the Wild Union, has fiercely defended the wildness of the Beastlands against those who try to destroy it. Along with his pack of twelve other Wylders, they have sabotaged a number of mining camps and poacher camps. Some of these have resulted in the death of those with no empathy for the wilderness.
While scouting ahead of his pack, a blighter who slipped into the woods from depths of the vile plane of Hades through a gap in the planes. While hidden, the blighter clawed forth, with a black skeletal hand, a ragged gash in time. Zero Wolf was suddenly sucked through the hole, just before it collapsed, and was thrust onto a distant plane.
After a decade of scavenging in a black, ragged pine forest, he discovered where he was... Ravenloft.

[dna1]

Here's the first version of my sheet:

(click to show/hide)

RIEK (WIP)
Race: Human
Ht: 5'3" , Wt: 190lb

Riek is a failed pirate who joined a kalashtar force whose main objective was to liberate riedran people from the Inspired. They seemed to succeed when he and the others were scattered across the multiverse.
Character Sheet
M Lawful Neutral Human Soulknife/Fighter/Soulbow, Level 3/2/1, Init +3, HP 72/72, Speed 30
AC 19, Touch 12, Flat-footed 16, Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +10, Base Attack Bonus 4   
  Mind Arrow +10 (1d8+5, x3)
  Mind Blade +2 (1d6-1,x2/19-20)
  +1 chain shirt,   +1 Light Steel Round Shield (+5 Armor, +2 Shield, +3 Dex, -1 Misc)
Abilities Str 8, Dex 14+2, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 17+3, Cha 10
Condition None

Looks good sir

How do you feel about the City Brawler Barbarian from Dragon 349?  Trades armor and weapon proficiency for Improved Unarmed Strike (the feat, not the Monk ability) and TWF that only functions with UAS. 

I'm not terribly attached to this one, but I think unarmed fits his flavor better than using a manufactured weapon, especially with the Bestial Instinct flaw.

Sure I don't see any problems with that.

Hey phae! Good to see you again. You're always welcome to jump in, grats on the house and whatnot. A bard would fit great.. and with the Mists I can move people in and out easily. So if you are up for it then feel free to continue sketching out a build.
EDIT: But I'm not liking that race much..  A native outsider, with some very decent SLA's seems like bit much for a +0 ecl. I guess maybe if you promised no alter self/polymorph type shenanigans I could consider it

Well... seeing as how I authored the Alter Self handbook, that's exactly what I was aiming for. I thought "Hmm... are there any LA0 outsiders besides those stupid slaad knockoffs?" and one google search later, I found those.

I actually like the idea of a "radiance touched" outsider who somehow gets trapped in the "dark" lands of Ravenloft, though. I'd be perfectly happy to say he had his "light" stripped away (i.e. lost his ability to use the SLAs), if I still get the outsider type (and can use Alter Self with it ).

Is it possible to go to Ravenloft on purpose, or send someone? I'm thinking of the following backstory: 

(click to show/hide)

his hometown (on the Plane of Radiance) was somehow overtaken and overrun by vampires, which had somehow "darkened" it (his hometown, not the whole plane), and (his family feared) were planning to use it as a staging ground to darken the rest of the plane, hence removing the source of all light in the multiverse. His family/town elders/etc (mistakenly?) believed that the source of the invasion was Ravenloft, and sent through a group of their finest warriors to try and stop it at its source. He himself was not one of these warriors, but was rather their chronicler and herald. Of course... the band of warriors drew a lot of the wrong kind of attention, given the nature of the plane they'd invaded, and were relatively quickly and soundly defeated, leaving the herald trapped there to be the only one to grieve for them, and wonder what has happened to his homeworld.

Since I'd imagine not much is known about Ravenloft outside of the plane itself, since no one ever leaves, I'd imagine it could be pretty easy for those on the outside to not know that it is in fact nearly impossible to leave, and therefore launching an invasion from there would be preposterous... So likely (Mercutio?) and his band of warriors were sent on a fool's errand, as the invasion wasn't even from Ravenloft in the first place...

I really like that idea for the backstory. I suppose if you drop the SLA's you can use the race. But as I mentioned in the OP I'm not looking for extreme optimization so try and control your self with the Alterself goodness 

Got my backstory finished

(click to show/hide)

Zero Wolf
CG Sparrow Hengeyokai Scout 6

He appears as a midnight black haired smaller man with sharp fingernails. In his hybrid form, he has a black bird's head. In animal form, he appears a tiny black-headed sparrow.

Zero Wolf, as part of the Wild Union, has fiercely defended the wildness of the Beastlands against those who try to destroy it. Along with his pack of twelve other Wylders, they have sabotaged a number of mining camps and poacher camps. Some of these have resulted in the death of those with no empathy for the wilderness.
While scouting ahead of his pack, a blighter who slipped into the woods from depths of the vile plane of Hades through a gap in the planes. While hidden, the blighter clawed forth, with a black skeletal hand, a ragged gash in time. Zero Wolf was suddenly sucked through the hole, just before it collapsed, and was thrust onto a distant plane.
After a decade of scavenging in a black, ragged pine forest, he discovered where he was... Ravenloft.

Seems good for now

[zook1shoe]

Thx... I'm prob gonna add some more to it tmw

could a scout's fast movement increase my fly too?

[brujon]

Ok... Scrapped the monk idea, but my idea, it needs to go through you first:

Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus (Savage Species)
Monstrous Humanoid 1
Monstrous Humanoid 2
Spiritual Lion Totem (Complete Champion) City Brawler (Dragon 349) Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana) Barbarian 1
Psy War 1
Psy War 2 (Mantled Warrior: Creation Mantle)
Ardent 1 (Time & Mental Power Mantles)

I was thinking going along these lines, and would you be OK with using Substitute Powers on the Time & Mental Power to Swap Sustenance in the Time Mantle with Hustle and add Synchronicity, Timeless Body, Quintessence in the Time Mantle, and Schism and Psychic Chirurgery in the Mental Power mantle?

Not finished with the feats yet, but this is more or less what i'm going for... Straight Ardent after Ardent 1, focusing more on the Utility side of things, while being a competent Grappler all throughout. Of course, that depends on you approving the build stub.

[phaedrusxy]

I really like that idea for the backstory. I suppose if you drop the SLA's you can use the race. But as I mentioned in the OP I'm not looking for extreme optimization so try and control your self with the Alterself goodness 

I promise to never turn into a Dwarf Ancestor.

[dna1]

Ok... Scrapped the monk idea, but my idea, it needs to go through you first:

Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus (Savage Species)
Monstrous Humanoid 1
Monstrous Humanoid 2
Spiritual Lion Totem (Complete Champion) City Brawler (Dragon 349) Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana) Barbarian 1
Psy War 1
Psy War 2 (Mantled Warrior: Creation Mantle)
Ardent 1 (Time & Mental Power Mantles)

I was thinking going along these lines, and would you be OK with using Substitute Powers on the Time & Mental Power to Swap Sustenance in the Time Mantle with Hustle and add Synchronicity, Timeless Body, Quintessence in the Time Mantle, and Schism and Psychic Chirurgery in the Mental Power mantle?

Not finished with the feats yet, but this is more or less what i'm going for... Straight Ardent after Ardent 1, focusing more on the Utility side of things, while being a competent Grappler all throughout. Of course, that depends on you approving the build stub.

Hmmm.. it seems your getting dangerously close to very high optimization here sir 
I happen to know that Hustle, Synchronicity, and Schism are all tied to "Psychic Tricks" and action economy.. am I right?  What would these and the other powers you mentioned be used for?  If you need to add a Psionic power you can always take the feat Expanded Knowledge

I'm not opposed to your build.. but if your just looking for a straight grappler there is lots of ways to go about it.. Have you ever checked out the Wizard grappler build? it's pretty bad ass. It even has a Octopus familiar.
Anyways I'm half approving this build as of now, with the complete approval after I know what little Tricks your Psychic powers will provide 

[brujon]

You are most completely right, sir, i want those specific Powers because of the Action Economy. The problem being, when i'm raging and on Melee, if i use Schism, then i can still use standard action powers in order to control the battlefield around me, including using powes in enemies that i'm currently in a grapple with. Hustle with Schism allows me to initiate a grapple with a Full Attack + Pounce, and still retain my move to break the grapple and reposition myself, or, it allows for charges to be made outside of a straight line, by repositioning with Hustle+Schism and then charging as a Full Round Action. Synchronicity with Linked Power is where the abuse lies, but i'm not taking Linked Power. Also, many of these tricks will not be available for me early on because of my reduced ML. Temporal Acceleration won't come into play much later, but when i do get it, it's for the same reasons as any Wizard wants Time Stop... It's just silly good.

For a grappler, i could, of course, have gone with straight druid or a wizard grapplemancer, but i've been meaning to try out psionic, and the thought of an Octopus psionic grappler that ISN'T an Illithid is very appealing. There's of course, the VERY useful fact that Psionics give me access to EXPANSION, which i can use to grow two size categories instead of one, and the fact that it doesn't use somatic components, so i retain full use of my powers even if i'm currently in a grapple.

The Substitute Powers ACF is of course better than the Expanded Knowledge feat, but you already knew that . The thing is that the Time Mantle has 7 powers and the Mental Power Mantle has 8 powers, instead of the 10 powers some of the other Mantles add, but allowing it or not is up to you. Next mantle i'd take would probably be Natural World in order to access Metamorphosis, and i'd probably ask you to allow Greater Metamorphosis to be added into the Mantle with Substitute Powers, since it does add Metamorphosis and it only has 9 powers in it. Or the Freedom Mantle for more battlefield repositioning shenanigans... It all depends on how you want to go with the Substitute Powers ACF!

As advancement, i'd probably stick to Ardent until i could qualify for either Sanctified Mind or Slayer PRC, which grants Full BAB, and then stick with those until the end.

[professorgear]

Hey dna1, can I apply some of the templates from Dragon 306 p60 to a Kobold?

[zook1shoe]

despite not being 3.5, can i use a couple compatible things from Masters of the Wild?

are some of the Dr306 templates available for the Hengeyokai too?

[dna1]

You are most completely right, sir, i want those specific Powers because of the Action Economy. The problem being, when i'm raging and on Melee, if i use Schism, then i can still use standard action powers in order to control the battlefield around me, including using powes in enemies that i'm currently in a grapple with. Hustle with Schism allows me to initiate a grapple with a Full Attack + Pounce, and still retain my move to break the grapple and reposition myself, or, it allows for charges to be made outside of a straight line, by repositioning with Hustle+Schism and then charging as a Full Round Action. Synchronicity with Linked Power is where the abuse lies, but i'm not taking Linked Power. Also, many of these tricks will not be available for me early on because of my reduced ML. Temporal Acceleration won't come into play much later, but when i do get it, it's for the same reasons as any Wizard wants Time Stop... It's just silly good.

For a grappler, i could, of course, have gone with straight druid or a wizard grapplemancer, but i've been meaning to try out psionic, and the thought of an Octopus psionic grappler that ISN'T an Illithid is very appealing. There's of course, the VERY useful fact that Psionics give me access to EXPANSION, which i can use to grow two size categories instead of one, and the fact that it doesn't use somatic components, so i retain full use of my powers even if i'm currently in a grapple.

The Substitute Powers ACF is of course better than the Expanded Knowledge feat, but you already knew that . The thing is that the Time Mantle has 7 powers and the Mental Power Mantle has 8 powers, instead of the 10 powers some of the other Mantles add, but allowing it or not is up to you. Next mantle i'd take would probably be Natural World in order to access Metamorphosis, and i'd probably ask you to allow Greater Metamorphosis to be added into the Mantle with Substitute Powers, since it does add Metamorphosis and it only has 9 powers in it. Or the Freedom Mantle for more battlefield repositioning shenanigans... It all depends on how you want to go with the Substitute Powers ACF!

As advancement, i'd probably stick to Ardent until i could qualify for either Sanctified Mind or Slayer PRC, which grants Full BAB, and then stick with those until the end.

Nicely put... good rationalizing.
And actually because I don't read much on Psionics I wasn't aware that the Substitute Powers was a ACF. I thought you wanted to just swap some out haha. Alright so I will approve your build, but I'm going to make you use the expanded knowledge feat to get Hustle or what ever, rather than let you just swap Swap Sustenance in the Time Mantle.
Via the ACF we can go ahead and fill the rest of the slots, but the final build is still subject to revisions.

Hey dna1, can I apply some of the templates from Dragon 306 p60 to a Kobold?

I don't have access to much dragon info on hand.. You would need to be specific, but I'm guessing I wouldn't have a problem with it. I know you have a pretty good idea what I'm willing to allow or not.

despite not being 3.5, can i use a couple compatible things from Masters of the Wild?

are some of the Dr306 templates available for the Hengeyokai too?

I assume so. Find something specific and get back to me

[zook1shoe]

Actually I looked again and don't need any of those templates.

the main thing from MotW was a 0th level spell called fire eyes.

I was thinking of a Drow Insignia w an extended version?

other than that, I was hoping for the Love of Nature (Dr324) 'druid' flaw

Make a Will save (DC 12) to be able to attack animals, plants, and vermin.

and the Beastly (Dr329) 'ranger' flaw

take a -2 circ penalty to Cha skill checks (besides Disguise, Handle Animal, and UMD). Count as an animal for the purposes of a bunch of PHB spells.

[brujon]

You know what i did forget when making my build? Flaws! Now i'll have to look them up. It's really a shame the flaws are only up for the taking at L1, though...

As for the Substitute Powers thing, i'll write up the mantles and the powers added, and write them up here, after i finalize my build. One of the issues with Ardent and mantles, though, is that not every mantle has a power for every level, so in some cases, you have actual dead levels where you don't have powers to choose from. If that's the case, would you be willing to make a case for swapping some power out for another so that levels aren't dead? In any case, i'll write the mantles up and then we cross that bridge! I'm really happy about this build, and that's a first for me, lol.