Author Topic: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!  (Read 46518 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Ordinary Magician


Let's start with maximum fire power.
-Marisa Kirisame, human Ordinary Magician

Ordinary Magicians are generalist arcane magic users who weren't lucky enough to be born with great natural talent like sorcerors, or getting a fancy education like wizards. In a world filled with dangerous yet wonderful magic, they seek to unlock its secrets by hard work, perseverance, and grabbing everything that looks valuable to help advance their research.

MAKING A Ordinary Magician
Ordinary Magicians combine an unique blend of magic martial arts with arcane spells.
Abilities: Intelligence is the main ability for a Ordinary Magician. Con is useful to offset her low HD and Fort saves, as well as Dexterity for ranged attacks and reflex saves.
Races: Ordinary Magicians must be of a basic LA 0 humanoid race. No templated humanoids either. They're not called “Ordinary” for nothing.
(click to show/hide)
Starting Gold: 1d4x10(average gp).
Starting Age: As fighter.

Class Skills
The Ordinary Magician's class skills are Apraise, Balance, Bluff, Craft, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Open Lock, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Swim, Use Magic Device.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + int mod)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + int mod

Hit Dice: d6

Level Bab Fort Ref Will FeatureManeuvers KnownManeuvers ReadiedStances KnownSpells Per Day
1+0+0+0+2Ordinary Magic, A Being made of Magic and Red Dream3312
2+1+0+0+3Greedy Magician4312
3+2+ 1+1+3Magical Furnace5313
4+3+1+1+4Magician of Red Dreams6413
5+4+1+1+4Dark Flight7424
6+4+2+2+5Magical Recycled Bomb 1/day8524
7+5 + 2+2+5Hard Worker9525
8+6 + 2+2+6The Strange Magician10625
9+6 + 3+3+6Magical Recycled Bomb 2/day11626
10+7 +3+3+7Boldly Timid12726
11+8 +3+3+7Devildom Torch13737
12+9 +4+4+8Magical Recycled Bomb 3/day14837
13+9 + 4+4+8The Magician Passing By15838
14+10 + 4+4+9Whatever I Want16938
15+11 +5+5+9Magical Recycled Bomb 4/day17949
16+12+5+5+10Someone to Fight, Someone to Mock181049
17+12+5+5+10Magical Research "Deep Ecological Bomb"1910510
18+13+6+6+11Magical Recycled Bomb 5/day2011510
19+14+6+6+11Extremely Ordinary2111511
20+15 +6+6+12The Magician Representing Mortals2212512

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Ordinary Magician is proficient with Simple weapons.

Maneuvers: A Ordinary Magician learns maneuver from the Love-Coloured Magic school and one other martial school of her choice. If the second school demands any special prerequisite (like Ancient Temple needing a feat) the Ordinary Magician must fulfill it as well. Her Iniator level is equal to her Ordinary Magician level, and she can only learn maneuvers of a level no bigger than half (IL+1).


Ordinary Magicians prefer to go all out. If she casts a spell without using maneuvers that round, she recovers a number of expended maneuvers equal to 1/3 the level of the spell cast, rounded up (1 spell recovered in the case of 0th level spells). Those spells can be ones binded to a Love-Coloured Magic stance. In alternative, she may spend 5 minutes taking notes and samples from the surroundings to recover and change her prepared maneuvers.



At 4th level, and every even-numbered level afterwards, the Ordinary Magician can swap one of her older maneuvers with a new one she qualifies for from one of her two schools (the new one doesn't need to be of the same level of the older one).

Ordinary Magic: An Ordinary Magician prepares and cast arcane spells from the wizard list. She starts play knowing six 0th level spells and three first level spells. At each new Ordinary Magician level she learns two new spells of a level no bigger than half (Ordinary Magician level+1). She keeps her spells known in spellbooks, and can add extra ones like a wizard. She must prepare her spells in advance each morning with one hour of stealing collecting ingredients from the surroundings. Unlike other arcane casters, each of her spell slots can take a spell of any level she learned from Ordinary Magician. Since her spell slots don't have levels, she can't use metamagic that would increase effective spell levels with them. She also gains a number of 0th level spell slots equal to her Int mod.

A Being made of Magic and Red Dream: An Ordinary magician is an ephemereal being, living for the short moment, knowing well that her existence in this plane is a brief moment when compared with most other magic beings. That may look like a weakness to others, but is actually a great source of strength. If the Ordinary Magician gains a template or her creature type is permanently changed or she attains immortality, she must instantly swap her Ordinary Magician levels for Youkai Magician levels. She may transfer her Magical Furnace's magic essence (see below) to a Magical Grimoire.The Ordinary Magician can never be forced to become immortal or permanently change her creature type or gain a Template, she'll always shrugg off such kind of effects

Word

Greedy Magician: At 2nd level the Ordinary Magician can search for traps as a rogue and use her Int instead of Dex for Sleight of Hand and Open Lock and Int instead of  Cha for Bluff, Gather Information and Use Magic Device checks.








Move and I'll shoot!!
I messed up.
I mean, shoot and I'll move. In a flash.

Magical Furnace: At 3rd level the Ordinary Magician can craft an unique trinket to help her channel her magic.
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Magician of Red Dreams: At 4th level the Ordinary Magician can write down Supernatural maneuvers and stances from other beings she witnessed using in her spellbooks, just as if they were spells learned from scrolls, as long as they aren't of an higher level than 1/2 her Ordinary Magician level. Each morning when preparing spells, she may swap up to 1/4 her base maneuvers from Love-Coloured magic for maneuvers learned this way. She may use her spellcraft skill/ranks instead of the those maneuver's normal skill, and Int instead of the main stat for those schools. She must still meet any extra prerequites like Ancient Temple needing a feat.

Dark Flight: At 5th level the Ordinary Magician can fly at twice her base speed with good maneuverability in some bizzarre way, like holding into an unattended household object like a broom or oven (it counts towards her carrying capacity), or simply sprouting wings out of nowhere.

Magical Recycled Bomb: At 6th level the Ordinary Magician gains Brew Potion as a bonus feat (if she already had it, she can pick another feat she qualifies for). In addition once per day as a move action, you can pull from your clothes a surprise potion containing any one spell from your spellbooks, up to -1 level of the highest spell level you can cast, that you can apply  to a target by throwing it as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. The spell's effects are exactly as if you had brewed the potion. If you pull the potion and don't throw it, or it misses, it crashes and the contents are wasted. If the spell demanded expensive components or exp, you must pay them.

At 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th levels you can use this ability an additional time per day.

Hard Worker: At 7th level the Ordinary Magician can add her Int mod to Concentration checks, Fortitude saves, and Con checks.

The Strange Magician: At 8th level the Ordinary Magician can add her Int mod to Initiative checks, Dex checks and Reflex saves.

Boldly Timid: At 10th level the Ordinary Magician can add her Int mod to AC and Will saves.

Devildom Torch:
At 11h level, if you use a Swift action before throwing a Magical Recycled Bomb, it splits upon impact! You can target another two creatures with the same potion effect, make new attack rolls but consider the point of origin the first target. If the spell demanded expensive components or exp, you must pay them for each target. In addition she can now brew her potions with spells of any level she can cast, including spells that normally couldn't be made in potion form. The Ordinary Magician can apply each of those potions to a target by throwing each as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet as a fullround action. If such a potion misses, it crashes and the contents are wasted. If the spell demanded expensive components or exp, you must pay them.


The Magician Passing By: At 13th level the Ordinary Magician benefits from a permanent Freedom of Movement effect, except it only works against magic effects, including spells and Su ones. Indirect divinations fail to produce any acurate information about her, Knowledge checks are made with a penalty equal to her Ordinary Magician level, and Alarms don't trigger (altough other magic traps still trigger normally).

Whatever I Want: At 14th level at the start of her turn the Ordinary Magician automatically removes all charm, fear, compulsion and domination effects on herself.

Someone to Fight, Someone to Mock: At 16th level if the Ordinary Magician faces an opponent and they run away, she gains a +2 to attack rolls, damage rolls, IL, CL, saves and Save DCs against that same opponent if she meets them in the future. This bonus can acumulate for multiple ecounters where the enemy runs away, but resets to zero if the Ordinary Magician is the one escaping.

Magical Research "Deep Ecological Bomb": At 17th level by spending a swift action before throwing a Magical Recycled Bomb, you can make it so that it doesn't break on impact. Instead, it starts glowing, and at the start of your next turn it explodes in a 20 feet radius burst. Creatures inside the radius automatically fail their savesagainst  the Deep Ecological Bomb, and it ignores any and all resistances and immunities. Plants will not grow on the affected area for a millenium. If the spell demanded expensive components or exp, you must pay them for each target.

Extremely Ordinary: At 19th level the Ordinary Magician has a 50% chance of removing any ill non-instantaneous non-permanent effects from herself  at the start of her turn (roll once for such effect).

The Magician Representing Mortals: Mortals always had to struggle in a world filled with mighty immortal beings of all kinds. At 20th level the Ordinary Magician picks one option from the list below at the start of each day. It lasts until the start of her next day, upon which she can pick another.

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Everlasting youth and life...
Huh.
If it's going to bring me a boring life,
I'd rather die!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:26:23 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 10:05:43 PM »
Love-Coloured Magic

Concentrate your mind.
Mutter the spell to Mini-Hakkero tenderly.
Aim at someone you don't like.
Now unleash your annihilation of love!-Marisa Kirisame, Love-Coloured Magic mistress


Its true origins stolen from somewhere else unknown, Love-Coloured Magic is a school that was refined by a wicked witch after years of battling all kinds of supernatural beings and mighty warriors with little more than blasting spells. Forced to face neverending hordes of fairies mortal monsters just to meet face to face with their mercyless masters, she developed a series of martial arts that allowed her to keep her magic going for extended periods of combat.

Favored Weapons: Broom (Quarterstaff), Wands, rods.
Key Skill: Spellcraft.

Sealed Maneuvers-Magic always comes with strings attached. When you learn Magic-Coloured maneuvers, you gain limited acess to some special sealed maneuvers. Those don't need to be prepared, but only be used when all of your prepared maneuvers are expended, and only once each until you recover maneuvers again.
You automatically learn a sealed maneuver when you know Love-Coloured Magic maneuvers equal to twice the sealed maneuver's level, at least one of which must be of the same level or higher. So for example to learn the Fifth sealed maneuver, Witching Blast, you would need to know ten Love-Coloured Magic maneuvers, and at least one of them to be 5th level or higher.
Sealed maneuvers don't count towards unlocking other sealed maneuvers.


(click to show/hide)

Maneuvers List

1st level
Meteoric Debris: Strike–Scatter magical energies.
Miasma Sweep: Counter-Sudden explosion propels you away from danger.
Narrow Spark:Strike- Focus magic for extra penetration
Witch Leyline: Boost–Augment yourself with magic and charge!
Magic Sign "Milky Way": Stance–Bond with the stars


2nd level
Magic Sign "Stardust Reverie": Strike–An enclosed space.
Star Sign "Meteonic Shower": Strike–Barrage of magic pushes your opponent's back
Magic Absorber: Counter–Place improvised explosive in your opponent's path.
Bosky Sweeper:Boost–Speed yourself up with magic.

3rd level

Master Spark: Strike–MASSSTTTAARRR SPAARRKKKOOO!!!
Ritual Sign "Orreries Sun":Stance- Prepared spells turn into familiar slaves.
Illusion Laser:Strike-No cover from this.
Light Sign "Luminous Strike":Boost-Turn weapon into magic gun.

4th level
Magic Drain Missile:Strike–Explovive arcana.
Light Flow "Shooting Echo": Boost–Once more with love.
Love Sign "Non-Directional Laser": Strike–Whoever said a laser only goes in one direction?
Magic Sign "Illusion Star":Boost-Double the love, double the fun!

5th level
Super Short-wave: Strike-Large area magic burst.
Star Sign "Escape Velocity": Counter-Retreat to cast another day!
Astronomical Instrument "Orreries' Solar System":Boost-Magic familiars help you spam magic.
Magic Space "Asteroid Belt":Strike- Meteors by any other name.

6th level
Stellar Missile :Counter-Intercept those who are above you.
Love Storm "Starlight Typhoon" :Strike– Aiming? What's that?
Armillary "Orreries Universe" : Stance–Deadly star system.
Light Blast "Shoot the Moon" :Strike-Reach to the sky and beyond!

7th level
Star Sign "Gravity Beat" -Boost-Whatever goes up must come down.
Loving Heart "Double Spark" : Strike–Double the love, double the destruction!
Perversion "Sure-Fire Master Spark":Strike-Unstoppable power of love.

8th level

Star Sign "Polaris Unique" :Boost- Hide the true power of your magic.
Black Magic "Event Horizon" : Stance–No escape from you!
Star Sign "Dragon Meteor": Strike- Magic death from above
Perverse Love "Easy-Harvest Master Spark":Strike- A special blast for your special one.

9th level
Comet "Blazing Star":Stance–Become the magic blast.
Magicannon "Final Spark":Strike-When you positively absolutely need to exterminate everybody in the room house street city.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:28:34 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 10:13:28 PM »
Maneuvers explanations:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:41:58 AM by oslecamo »

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 10:14:19 PM »
Ok, probably needs some further cleaning up, still needs feats, also more pictures and fluff quotes, but otherwise the maneuvers and class themselves are here.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2014, 10:14:40 PM »
Quote
Ordinary Magic: An Ordinary Magician prepares and cast arcane spells from the wizard list. She starts play knowing six 0th level spells and three first level spells. At each new Ordinary Magician level she learns two new spells of a level up to bigger than half (Ordinary Magician level+1). She keeps her spells known in spellbooks, and can add extra ones like a wizard. She must prepare her spells in advance each morning with one hour of stealing collecting ingredients from the surroundings. Unlike other arcane casters, each of her spell slots can take a spell of any level she learned from Ordinary Magician. Since her spell slots don't have levels, she can't use metamagic that would increase effective spell levels with them. She also gains a number of 0th level spell slots equal to her Int mod.

Currently allows you to take 9th level spells at 2nd level (should be 'no bigger than').

Quote
A Being made of Magic and Red Dream: An Ordinary magician starts as someone normal that aspires to be something greater. If the Ordinary Magician gains a template or her creature type is permanently changed, she must instantly swap her Ordinary Magician levels into something else.

Er... not terribly sure I agree with this. It does rather deny the fact that most Youkai Magicians are basically the same thing, but with a few spells that work around that inconvenient ageing and stop needing to eat from interfering with research. I say most, as we have Byakuren and Alice on one side, and Patchouli on the other.

Quote
Dark Flight: At 5th level the Ordinary Magician can fly at twice her base speed with good maneuverability in some bizzarre way, like holding into an unattended household object like a broom or oven, or simply sprouting wings out of nowhere.

And thus the witch-y flight method is a bad idea as you could lose your grip.

Will look at the school tomorrow.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2014, 11:53:10 PM »
The thread title says "Cluss"

What's wrong with "A Being made of Magic and Red Dream", Raineh? It doesn't seem to be a problem from my point of view :/

I like the fact that as currently written, you could potentially lose flight mid-flight if you are made to lose your grip on whatever is letting you fly.
It just means Featherfall should always be available :p

The 19th & 20th levels of the Ordinary Magician class short are formatted wrong  :tongue

Quote
Extremely Ordinary: At 19th level the Ordinary Magician removes all ill non-instantaneous non-permanent effects from herself  at the start of her turn.
That's pretty cool and all, but is it okay to not have any sort of roll tied to it for it to work? I mean, you'd get to do it every turn after all.

Quote
The Magician Representing Mortals: Despite wielding mighty magic, the Ordinary Magician is still a normal person. At 20th level the Ordinary Magician
20th level ability isn't finished

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 02:01:19 AM »
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That sounds like a rather dangerous Counter to start the game with...I mean, you could kill yourself from fall damage just as likely as you could have been killed by the attack you're dodging. The maneuver also doesn't mention wasting the opponents action if you use this :p

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I wasn't even done going through the 1st level maneuvers when I was already thinking "If every maneuver in this school requires casting a spell to use it, that'd be a real problem...". Clever stance idea solving the problem already, nice :D
Also noticing all of these Love-Colored Stances are pretty similar in this regard, which is pretty neat as you can tie different spells to each Stance and really extend the life of your spellcasting through out the day. I really like this mechanic.

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I know it's Master Spark, but 50ft long per rank in spellcraft seems like a bit much...Um, lets see....considering the next version of this is like 70ft per IL, and the Final one is 100ft per IL, how bout keep them in sync and have this first one be at most 40ft per IL long?  Also I just noticed that this Spark's length is measured by Ranks in Spellcraft but the higher level Sparks are measured by IL. Changing it to be measured by IL like the others would help make this range not be quite so...far. Either.
Not sure about the width either....I feel like I wanna say reduce it to at most 10ft wide...but I've already pointed out a lot of things to better make this feel like something as low level as a 3rd level maneuver.

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Just to check, but the last line for this stance means you can use the spells bonded to this stance to fuel other Love-Colored maneuvers?

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Mundane obstacles only? Just as clarification. Probably shouldn't magical obstacle anyways, in my opinion.

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Considering it IS just a Boost, doing a full Spellcraft check in damage is a bit much. If anything, it either should do 1/2 or 1/3 a spellcraft check in damage maybe?
It's too simple a matter to launch any skill check into the stratosphere and this is not a Strike. Yanno?

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Putting a DC on the maneuver then stating in the description that you are actually using the Spell's normal DC+4 could be a bit confusing. Maybe a "Save: See Text" goes here?

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No real problem I have with this one, just the first couple sentences were a little...poorly written and difficult to understand them so I'm offering up a retyped version with easier to understand wording >.>

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Almost seems kind of pointless if you still provoke from this movement. Especially if you use the counter when attacked by anything with reach.

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Maybe it should have a duration, yeah? Or at least needing to concentrate on it each round much like how several other maneuvers you have here require that last multiple rounds.
Also, this sounds very apt to friendly fire tpks currently.....

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It doesn't state how much extra damage it does.

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While it does say no creature can be affected more than once by each (beam), can you affect a single creature multiple times if you place multiple beams under it (assuming the creature fills more than a 5ft square such as a large or larger creature)?

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Another maneuver with an effectively infinite duration as you can just drop it and leave, using the rest of the party to lock down the enemies within the area so they can't chase you. I don't know what to suggest, but I don't like the infinite duration.  :-\
At least require a concentration check to maintain each round. Actually, considering you have a lot of maneuvers here that basically just last until you stop concentrating on them and that you can have one of those going on while still using other maneuvers and spells that don't ask for a concentration check because that kind of check doesn't take an action, maybe toss a scaling Concentration DC for each round you try to maintain any such maneuver that can be maintained infinitely with a concentration check?
At the same time it'd promote not just throwing out a maneuver like this one and then hanging out doing nothing in the back line until combat ends.

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I don't quite understand the wording here to fulfill the requirements asked for using this maneuver. Maybe it could use some clearer wording.

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Basically casting the same spell twice and NOT two different spells, right?
Do you have to have the spell prepped twice for the day as well?
Basically some clearer wording for clarification could help here.

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So does this do normal damage as per the spell cast through it in the 1st round, then the spell's damage plus 2 spellcraft checks in the 2nd round?
And that last line, is this maneuver lasting 3 rounds in total then with the cone sized version lasting two rounds? Is the damage on the 3rd round the same as on the 2nd round?

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But does the Will save actually help them in any way if they succeed?
Also, this maneuver's delay mechanic seems really good for something to adapt into the maneuvers here that can last indefinitely (like I brought up a few quotes ago).

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It should probably have it stated somewhere that you are the one moving and that the sphere isn't moving separately from you.
Currently it reads as if you are shooting "Blazing Stars" at people instead of actually becoming the "Blazing Star"  :P

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What's the point of this maneuver? You can only use it if there is only a single known enemy left (that you can assumedly see as well) and it's letting you move a minimum of 17 miles in a straight line? Why are you moving almost 20 miles in a straight line to hit a single, lone enemy that is more likely than not within your sight when you use this maneuver? At the same time, you can only use it when there is only one enemy left, but then you're still able to use it against anything and anyone else you just happen to pass over? And does merely passing over them (at any height above them) cause them to be affected or do you actually have to move through their space? If this is kept as is, then some clarification on that part could help.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 05:42:58 AM »
What's wrong with "A Being made of Magic and Red Dream", Raineh? It doesn't seem to be a problem from my point of view :/

Assume Marisa has 20 levels in the class. If she becomes a youkai magician (possible; not immensely unlikely given she spends more time with youkai than humans and they'd all outlive her) she'd lose all her abilities. Despite this being a pretty minor change. Don't age, don't eat. Potentially inheritable as natural-born magicians need to come from somewhere. :lmao

Quote
I like the fact that as currently written, you could potentially lose flight mid-flight if you are made to lose your grip on whatever is letting you fly.
It just means Featherfall should always be available :p

Or I could just go with the 'grow wings' option. : D

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 06:32:09 AM »
Yes but wings are so bland. :P

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 06:37:02 AM »
Yes but wings are so bland. :P

Make 'em flashy. :p

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 07:18:10 AM »
Wings are so ordinary though, but not Ordinary :3

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 07:25:00 AM »
Say that to Marisa, she's been shown with wings in the Seihou extra stage with her and Reimu. :p

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 07:58:56 AM »
Yeah, once. Pfft. :p

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base cluss and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 11:38:58 AM »
Fixed typos on main class, Extremely Ordinary now only has 50% chance of working, still need to do a capstone indeed.

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That sounds like a rather dangerous Counter to start the game with...I mean, you could kill yourself from fall damage just as likely as you could have been killed by the attack you're dodging. The maneuver also doesn't mention wasting the opponents action if you use this :p
Clarified evading, added free featherfall effect.

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I wasn't even done going through the 1st level maneuvers when I was already thinking "If every maneuver in this school requires casting a spell to use it, that'd be a real problem...". Clever stance idea solving the problem already, nice :D
Also noticing all of these Love-Colored Stances are pretty similar in this regard, which is pretty neat as you can tie different spells to each Stance and really extend the life of your spellcasting through out the day. I really like this mechanic.
Thanks! It worked quite a bit on how to blend in spellcasting with maneuvers. :D

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I know it's Master Spark, but 50ft long per rank in spellcraft seems like a bit much...Um, lets see....considering the next version of this is like 70ft per IL, and the Final one is 100ft per IL, how bout keep them in sync and have this first one be at most 40ft per IL long?  Also I just noticed that this Spark's length is measured by Ranks in Spellcraft but the higher level Sparks are measured by IL. Changing it to be measured by IL like the others would help make this range not be quite so...far. Either.
Not sure about the width either....I feel like I wanna say reduce it to at most 10ft wide...but I've already pointed out a lot of things to better make this feel like something as low level as a 3rd level maneuver.
Reduced range and made it dependant on IL.

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Just to check, but the last line for this stance means you can use the spells bonded to this stance to fuel other Love-Colored maneuvers?
You seem to have missed the "You can also use the orbs to activate Love-Colored Magic as normal, this triggers the "cooldown" as well."

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Mundane obstacles only? Just as clarification. Probably shouldn't magical obstacle anyways, in my opinion.
Clarified.

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Considering it IS just a Boost, doing a full Spellcraft check in damage is a bit much. If anything, it either should do 1/2 or 1/3 a spellcraft check in damage maybe?
It's too simple a matter to launch any skill check into the stratosphere and this is not a Strike. Yanno?
Well, it's also kinda hard aiming since you need to be right under or above your target, but reduced the damage to half to be in the safer side.

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Putting a DC on the maneuver then stating in the description that you are actually using the Spell's normal DC+4 could be a bit confusing. Maybe a "Save: See Text" goes here?
It's because of the stance that if you bonded a spell to a stance, you get to use the maneuver's DC base (and then add+4 if you hit the attack).

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No real problem I have with this one, just the first couple sentences were a little...poorly written and difficult to understand them so I'm offering up a retyped version with easier to understand wording >.>
Thanks, added it!

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Almost seems kind of pointless if you still provoke from this movement. Especially if you use the counter when attacked by anything with reach.
You mean it is pointless to eat an Aoo in place of a super-pimped attack of doom?  :p

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Maybe it should have a duration, yeah? Or at least needing to concentrate on it each round much like how several other maneuvers you have here require that last multiple rounds.
Also, this sounds very apt to friendly fire tpks currently.....
Well, the thing is that altough it repeats itself, it does so in the same area, and as you pointed out it deals friendly damage just fine. If your enemies/allies are ⑨ enough to stand under it, they deserve what's coming for them.

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It doesn't state how much extra damage it does.
Ups, added.

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While it does say no creature can be affected more than once by each (beam), can you affect a single creature multiple times if you place multiple beams under it (assuming the creature fills more than a 5ft square such as a large or larger creature)?
Put a limitation that lasers need to be at least 10 feet apart from each other, clarified for big creatures.

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Another maneuver with an effectively infinite duration as you can just drop it and leave, using the rest of the party to lock down the enemies within the area so they can't chase you. I don't know what to suggest, but I don't like the infinite duration.  :-\
At least require a concentration check to maintain each round. Actually, considering you have a lot of maneuvers here that basically just last until you stop concentrating on them and that you can have one of those going on while still using other maneuvers and spells that don't ask for a concentration check because that kind of check doesn't take an action, maybe toss a scaling Concentration DC for each round you try to maintain any such maneuver that can be maintained infinitely with a concentration check?
Just as like the asteroid one, this one is immobile. And also a sealed maneuver, so you can't just keep spamming it when you go somewhere else.

At the same time it'd promote not just throwing out a maneuver like this one and then hanging out doing nothing in the back line until combat ends.
That would be... Highly innefecient, considering that half the time it doesn't do anything.

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I don't quite understand the wording here to fulfill the requirements asked for using this maneuver. Maybe it could use some clearer wording.
Tried to clarify

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Basically casting the same spell twice and NOT two different spells, right?
Do you have to have the spell prepped twice for the day as well?
Basically some clearer wording for clarification could help here.
Should also be more clarified now.

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So does this do normal damage as per the spell cast through it in the 1st round, then the spell's damage plus 2 spellcraft checks in the 2nd round?
And that last line, is this maneuver lasting 3 rounds in total then with the cone sized version lasting two rounds? Is the damage on the 3rd round the same as on the 2nd round?
It just lasts 2 rounds. The damage becomes boosted at the start of your 2nd one and lasts 1 turn from there (thus 2 rounds duration)

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But does the Will save actually help them in any way if they succeed?
That's up to them to find some kind of saving mercy, like preparing some healing or starting to write their will.. Begging for mercy is also an option. :smirk

Also, this maneuver's delay mechanic seems really good for something to adapt into the maneuvers here that can last indefinitely (like I brought up a few quotes ago).
The problem is that this is something that follows the target around, whereas the others are things that remain in the same place.

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It should probably have it stated somewhere that you are the one moving and that the sphere isn't moving separately from you.
Currently it reads as if you are shooting "Blazing Stars" at people instead of actually becoming the "Blazing Star"  :P
Just as planned fixed.


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What's the point of this maneuver? You can only use it if there is only a single known enemy left (that you can assumedly see as well) and it's letting you move a minimum of 17 miles in a straight line? Why are you moving almost 20 miles in a straight line to hit a single, lone enemy that is more likely than not within your sight when you use this maneuver? At the same time, you can only use it when there is only one enemy left, but then you're still able to use it against anything and anyone else you just happen to pass over? And does merely passing over them (at any height above them) cause them to be affected or do you actually have to move through their space? If this is kept as is, then some clarification on that part could help.
Hmm, relaxed the requirements, now you just need to have double or more allies supporting you to use this one.

Thanks for pointing all that stuff out!

What's wrong with "A Being made of Magic and Red Dream", Raineh? It doesn't seem to be a problem from my point of view :/

Assume Marisa has 20 levels in the class. If she becomes a youkai magician (possible; not immensely unlikely given she spends more time with youkai than humans and they'd all outlive her) she'd lose all her abilities. Despite this being a pretty minor change. Don't age, don't eat. Potentially inheritable as natural-born magicians need to come from somewhere. :lmao

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A Being made of Magic and Red Dream: An Ordinary magician starts as someone normal that aspires to be something greater. If the Ordinary Magician gains a template or her creature type is permanently changed, she must instantly swap her Ordinary Magician levels into something else.

Er... not terribly sure I agree with this. It does rather deny the fact that most Youkai Magicians are basically the same thing, but with a few spells that work around that inconvenient ageing and stop needing to eat from interfering with research. I say most, as we have Byakuren and Alice on one side, and Patchouli on the other.
Don't know if you got the memo, but Marisa is still an human, while Byakuren sold off her humanity because she was a spineless coward.

And that's why an ordinary magician is different from a youkai magician (nice name for Patchoulli's future class BTW, I'll keep that one in mind). Marisa relies in hard work and going all out. Patchouli and Byakuren and Alice take it easy most of the time.

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Dark Flight: At 5th level the Ordinary Magician can fly at twice her base speed with good maneuverability in some bizzarre way, like holding into an unattended household object like a broom or oven, or simply sprouting wings out of nowhere.

And thus the witch-y flight method is a bad idea as you could lose your grip.

Disclaimer: most of the broom boosts will come in the form of the school's feats, because there was just so much I could put in the class and school themselves. :P

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 11:50:36 AM »
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Don't know if you got the memo, but Marisa is still an human, while Byakuren sold off her humanity because she was a spineless coward.

And that's why an ordinary magician is different from a youkai magician (nice name for Patchoulli's future class BTW, I'll keep that one in mind). Marisa relies in hard work and going all out. Patchouli and Byakuren and Alice take it easy most of the time.

Marisa is indeed still a human--for now. Given who she associates most with, I kinda doubt that's going to stay the same indefinitely. There's even a fan VN about how this could all go down, though  that's still (even after three years) in progress.

Also, all magicians, by definition, rely on hard work, Patchouli and Byakuren just have the advantage of starting before her. Alice's Goliath Doll testing is quite a big clue, too. >.>

So sad I can't take Rainbow Puppeteer if I take this class, though. Because that would be the best way to maximise doll usage. :lmao
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 11:54:18 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 12:48:54 PM »
Marisa is indeed still a human--for now. Given who she associates most with, I kinda doubt that's going to stay the same indefinitely. There's even a fan VN about how this could all go down, though  that's still (even after three years) in progress.
Pfftt, fanfiction about Marisa abandoning her humanity are a cent the dozen out there.

But there's also plenty of fanfiction where Marisa just goes "Do I really want to live forever?"

Which is actually much closer to cannon:
-Perfect Cherry Blossom profile says that "On another topic, the elixir of immortality she had been developing during the winter ended up being too large for consumption. More improvement required." The way I see it, the "too large for consumption" is meant in a literal sense-Marisa doesn't want such large of a burden.
-And indeed in the Extra stage of IN, Marisa refuses to eat Mokou's guts, altough she admits she's somewhat tempted by immortality.
-In UFO, Marisa admits she's on the same magic business as Byakuren, but then points out that their methods are quite different. Byakuren went completely to the dark magic side, while Marisa still holds to her human part.
-There's also her title in HM, "The Magician Representing Humanity". In a battle of popularity between wannabe gods, disguised monsters and divine beings, Marisa stands alone for the common people.


Also, all magicians, by definition, rely on hard work, Patchouli and Byakuren just have the advantage of starting before her. Alice's Goliath Doll testing is quite a big clue, too. >.>
But all of those just sit in their dark corners doing their things most of the time. They play it safe and slow. Marisa's the one who goes all-out all the time.

Basically, going from magician human to magician youkai is supposed to change someone's very nature. Thus the levelsretraining.

So sad I can't take Rainbow Puppeteer if I take this class, though. Because that would be the best way to maximise doll usage. :lmao
Well, you can steal borrow them with Magician of Red Dreams. :p
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:50:49 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 01:49:56 PM »
Marisa is indeed still a human--for now. Given who she associates most with, I kinda doubt that's going to stay the same indefinitely. There's even a fan VN about how this could all go down, though  that's still (even after three years) in progress.
Pfftt, fanfiction about Marisa abandoning her humanity are a cent the dozen out there.

But there's also plenty of fanfiction where Marisa just goes "Do I really want to live forever?"

What do you think she's thinking where Reimu is concerned? It's a VN. It's interesting enough, though it's stopped just before she makes a final decision on the matter (which will take place after meeting Byakuren, since this is put between SA and UFO). She's also worried about losing her humanity when her fundamental motivation is to stop ageing because so many of her friends will outlive her.

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Which is actually much closer to cannon:
-Perfect Cherry Blossom profile says that "On another topic, the elixir of immortality she had been developing during the winter ended up being too large for consumption. More improvement required." The way I see it, the "too large for consumption" is meant in a literal sense-Marisa doesn't want such large of a burden.
-And indeed in the Extra stage of IN, Marisa refuses to eat Mokou's guts, altough she admits she's somewhat tempted by immortality.
-In UFO, Marisa admits she's on the same magic business as Byakuren, but then points out that their methods are quite different. Byakuren went completely to the dark magic side, while Marisa still holds to her human part.
-There's also her title in HM, "The Magician Representing Humanity". In a battle of popularity between wannabe gods, disguised monsters and divine beings, Marisa stands alone for the common people

- 'More improvement required'. Yeah, no matter how you try and dismiss it, Marisa's not got all that much intention of staying human. The problem is clearly with the implementation.
- Gee, she's tempted by immortality but doesn't want to eat guts? Do you think this might not be because she doesn't desire to be a cannibal? Or eating raw liver is outside of her comfort zone. And the Hourai Elixir is immensely overkill. :eh
- These last two don't equate to 'Marisa has every intention of dying from old age'. Byakuren basically became a champion of youkai against humanity, and the last one... uh, she's not fighting on behalf of a philosophy. I don't see what that has to do at all, because Buddhism has fuck all to do with becoming a youkai magician. :p

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Also, all magicians, by definition, rely on hard work, Patchouli and Byakuren just have the advantage of starting before her. Alice's Goliath Doll testing is quite a big clue, too. >.>
But all of those just sit in their dark corners doing their things most of the time. They play it safe and slow. Marisa's the one who goes all-out all the time.

Basically, going from magician human to magician youkai is supposed to change someone's very nature. Thus the levelsretraining.

... so Marisa's the belligerent one always fighting, who believes magic is supposed to be flashy as hell. This does not make her more of a hard worker; it makes her a risky fighter. As it says in her article, Marisa is specialised in youkai extermination--Patchouli has the Philosopher's Stone, and Alice wants to make a sentient doll. They have different focuses. >.>

And... no it isn't? You stop needing to eat and stop ageing. Youkai magicians aren't so different from people; hell, there's a 2e spell (from Netheril, so impossible to cast normally, but still) to exactly that effect, so I can't buy 'no longer dying from old age means you're not able to be this class any more'. It would fit as part of the 20th level capstone, for one.

I can also achieve it via Ring of Sustenance and one level of Eternal Royal, so the restriction doesn't actually prevent me from being able to model, say, Alice with it.

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So sad I can't take Rainbow Puppeteer if I take this class, though. Because that would be the best way to maximise doll usage. :lmao
Well, you can steal borrow them with Magician of Red Dreams. :p

It''s not the same. : (

Though I'm now wondering what spells could work well with the dolls. Hmmm.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 01:53:15 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 04:07:27 PM »
Yanno it doesn't take corrupting your nature and acquiring templates that change your creature type to live longer.

I just feel arguing this point is a little moot. Marisa is human now. Just an Ordinary human. If that ever changes canonically in the future, and it makes a big enough impact and change, it could by all means merit a Not-So-Ordinary anymore PrC. But some immortal demon is not who she is right now.

Edit:

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You mean it is pointless to eat an Aoo in place of a super-pimped attack of doom?  :p
Stuff that pimps out your attack(s) for the round tend to last, well, the entire round.
For instance, the effects of Power Attack still apply to your AoOs taken before your next turn, just as example.
So you're dodging a super-pimped out attack of doom for a....second chance at being hit by that super-pimped attack of doom. The only real exception is if you trigger this off an attack spell and then hopefully you get out of the spell's range :p

Which brings to mind! You pretty much gave the class all these rogue skills as class skills, but not Tumble? I feel Tumble makes sense.
Plus aerial barrel rolls away/through enemies!

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The problem is that this is something that follows the target around, whereas the others are things that remain in the same place.
Yes but the areas for those immobile effects are huge enough to easily cover most of, if not the entire battlefield more often than not  :-\

« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 04:15:24 PM by ketaro »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 05:11:07 PM »
Yanno it doesn't take corrupting your nature and acquiring templates that change your creature type to live longer.

But it does make it the easiest way to represent it, minor a change as it is.

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I just feel arguing this point is a little moot. Marisa is human now. Just an Ordinary human. If that ever changes canonically in the future, and it makes a big enough impact and change, it could by all means merit a Not-So-Ordinary anymore PrC. But some immortal demon is not who she is right now.

ZUN, change something? :rolleyes

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Ordinary Magician base class and Love-Coloured Magic school DA ZE!
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 06:26:41 PM »
Quote
You mean it is pointless to eat an Aoo in place of a super-pimped attack of doom?  :p
Stuff that pimps out your attack(s) for the round tend to last, well, the entire round.
For instance, the effects of Power Attack still apply to your AoOs taken before your next turn, just as example.
So you're dodging a super-pimped out attack of doom for a....second chance at being hit by that super-pimped attack of doom. The only real exception is if you trigger this off an attack spell and then hopefully you get out of the spell's range :p
-Spells
-Maneuvers
-Full attacks/pounce

Need I go on why eating an Aoo would be preferable to the above?
Plus, if you gain some way of concealment/cover, you don't even need to bother with the Aoo.

Which brings to mind! You pretty much gave the class all these rogue skills as class skills, but not Tumble? I feel Tumble makes sense.
Plus aerial barrel rolls away/through enemies!
Feats will cover fancy broom stuff. Reimu's more athletic than Marisa, and she doesn't get tumble either.

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The problem is that this is something that follows the target around, whereas the others are things that remain in the same place.
Yes but the areas for those immobile effects are huge enough to easily cover most of, if not the entire battlefield more often than not  :-\
Reduced area to 5 feet per IL then. That may be 100 feet at 20th level... But if your opponent's can't work around that by that level, they deserve their deaths.

... so Marisa's the belligerent one always fighting, who believes magic is supposed to be flashy as hell. This does not make her more of a hard worker; it makes her a risky fighter. As it says in her article, Marisa is specialised in youkai extermination--Patchouli has the Philosopher's Stone, and Alice wants to make a sentient doll. They have different focuses. >.>
Point remains. Marisa acts in a different way than Marisa. Patchoulli can't be expected to shrugg off bad conditions and throwing improvised bombs.

Plus, Alice already created a sentient doll. She's moved on to making mecha dolls last time we heard of her. When she gets bored of that (like she got bored of Medicine and threw her away), she'll find something else doll-related to do. Unless there's astral bodies disappearing or earthquakes, Alice always has an excuse to stay at home nowadays.

As Marisa herself pointed out, what kind of mind do you need to mass produce human-shaped bombs?

I can also achieve it via Ring of Sustenance and one level of Eternal Royal, so the restriction doesn't actually prevent me from being able to model, say, Alice with it.
Ah, I knew I had forgotten something. Taken care off.