Author Topic: Einst Queen  (Read 5407 times)

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Einst Queen
« on: June 04, 2014, 02:30:32 PM »
Einst Queen

  ...
-only recorded transcription from Einst Queen #31 before assault team Beta was slaughtered by its drones.

When humanoids started spreading across the stars, they tought they had finally managed to finally truly overcome nature, completely free of the rules of predator and prey.

They were wrong. By leaving their planets, they caught the attention of something big. Something dangerous. Something unknown. They were called the Einst, for they gave no name of their own. A lifeform ruled by mysterious queens that constantly give birth to living engines of destruction that consume everything on their path to make more of their own.

Still, there is hope. In some isolated incidents, young queens were captured, taught the languages of humanoids, introduced to our varied cultures to try to gain their trust, or drugged with all kind of chemical cocktails and arcane technologies to try to "tame" them. And altough most such experiments backfired horribly, some Einst Queens seem to have genuinely sided with the humanoids their sisters keep preying upon.

MAKING AN EINST QUEEN
An Einst Queen converts anything she can eat in mecha sized flesh spawns to do her bidding.
Abilities: Einst Queens should favor balanced physical scores to make their own spawns stronger.
Races: Each Einst Queen shows traits of a specific race, with the full spectrum of queens observed so far having traits of all known races. If this is a case of the Einst Queens adopting the traits of those they devour, convergory evolution, some wicked strategy to confuse humanoids, or something more sinister, is unknown.
Alignment: Usually neutral evil. For most Einst Queens verything else is to be devoured to make more Einst. Some Einst Queens show a more neutral behaviour, only attacking if provoked, and some fewer have been reported as helping others.
Starting Gold:None. Money? What's that?
Starting Age: As (barbarian).


Hit Dice: d12

Level
Base
Attack Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save

Special
1st+1+2+0+2Einst Drones I, Queen's Will, Classification, Primordial Pilot
2nd+2+3+0+3Queen's Spirit
3rd+3+3+1+3Einst Feat
4th+4+4+1+4Einst Drones II
5th+5+4+1+4Einst Feat
6th+6+5+2+5Queen's Spirit
7th+7+5+2+5Einst Drones III
8th+8+6+2+6Einst Feat
9th+9+6+3+6Queen's Spirit
10th+10+7+3+7Einst Drones IV
11th+11+7+3+7Einst Feat
12th+12+8+4+8Queen's Spirit
13th+13+8+4+8Einst Drones V
14th+14+9+4+9Einst Feat
15th+15+9+5+9Queen's Spirit
16th+16+10+5+10Einst Drones VI
17th+17+10+5+10Einst Feat
18th+18+11+6+11Queen's Spirit
19th+19+11+6+11Einst Drones VII
20th+20+12+6+12Star Devourer, Einst Feat
Class Skills: 4 Skill points+Int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any), Listen, Perform, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: None. Manufactured weapons and armor? What's that?

Class Features:


Einst Drones: The Einst Queen can give “birth” to a series of massive creatures that exist only to serve her. They are a combination of different genetic data collected from countless different worlds, each Einst Drone having a selection of traits needed for the task the Einst Queen demands at the moment. The “birthing” process can vary wildly from queen to queen, but usually involves egg sacs growing and expanding from her body. The Queen can interrupt the process at any moment should danger arise, cutting the connection with the growing sac, but then the process is ruined and must be started anew, altough nutrients can be recycled.

Each Einst consists of a base bioframe to which a certain amount of  Bioweapons can be added. Each Einst drone must also be equipped with an Instinct that controls their actions, since complex brains are an unnecessary system for this expendable beings.

She needs only one hour of non-interrupted concentration per einst bioframe level she wants to produce. She can produce multiple einst drones of the same kind simultaneously without taking extra time. However she can't make her servants out of nothing. She demands nutrients. Unless otherwise noticed, each Einst Drone demands the Einst Queen to consume  10 tons of organic matter (aka anything that includes carbon, oxygen and hydrogen on its composition) from sentient living beings (or their fresh corpses). Nonsentient contribute only 1/10, and raw soft inorganic matter such as soil and water are just 1/100th as effective. The Einst Queen can consume one ton of nutrients of any type  per Queen level per minute, and store ten times that inside her own body for later use. She accomplishes this by temporaly converting the nutrients in an highly concentrated form.

Since Einst drones are more organic automatons than actual creatures, they don't have HD nor a Con or Int score, which also means no feats or skill points. They have base 10 on all stats unless otherwise noticed. They use their Str mod(if positive) for Fort saves, and add half their Wis mod (if positive) to all attack and damage rolls. The Einst Queen can increase the ability scores of her einst drones by doubling the production time, provided the total sum of increases isn't higher than twice her Einst Queen level. So for example a 10th level Einst Queen could add +20 to Str or +20 to Dex, or +10 to Str and +10 to Dex.

Overall Einst Drones work just as sentient mechas, even being able to survive in empty space, except of course they don't have a pilot. Instead they have a nerve core in the middle of their frame where its vital organs and nerves are concentrated. If an Einst Drone suffers a successful critical hit that deals damage, the core is destroyed and the Einst Drone automatically dies. Its remains however count as a sentient being for nutrients purpose.

Einst Drones can only ever count their own Queen and other Drones birthed by her as allies. Other creatures cannot ever count the Einst Drones as allies.

Details for bioframes, bioweapons and instincts can be found in the next post.

Queen's Will: The Einst Queen can override the Instinct of any Einst Drones she spawed that are within a radius of 60+10 mu per Einst Queen level centered on herself as a swift action. Such Einst Drones now act on the same Initiative as the Queen and follow her absolute commands, and can also use her own Bab, base saves and ability scores if better than their own. The Einst Queen can only extend her Will to three Einst drones with a bioframes of the max level she can spawn. For each lower level of bioframes, they can control three times as much. So for example a Queen that can produce level VII bioframes could control three level VII bioframes, or nine level VI bioframes, or twenty-seven level V bioframes, and so on. This control lasts until the Queen uses a Swift action to gain control of new ones, or they leave her control range.

Classification: One of the most baffling things about einsts is how despite their drones having all kinds of alien shapes and bodies, the queens that give birth to them are actually human-looking.  Several theories have appeared to try to explain this. The darker ones claim that humanoids are actually degenerated Einsts, and now the Queens are now out there to cleanse them. At first level pick one of the following options.

(click to show/hide)

Primordial Pilot:
The Einst Queen counts as a Pilot for meeting the prerequisites of feats, and her drones count as having the same Pilot level for any ability that cares about it. If she picks Funnel Control System,  instead of robots she unleashes a massive swarm of diminutive Einst drones from  her body, that follow the same game rules as funnels.

Queen's Spirit: At 2nd level the Einst Queen gains 5 spirit points per level and learns one Spirit of her choice, as long as it is [Real Pilot] or [Super Pilot]. She can count herself as either for the cost reduction, but once made the decision cannot be changed. At 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th she can choose to learn a new Spirit. When the Einst Queen uses a Spirit, she can choose for it to affect all of her Drones under the effect of Queen's Will instead of herself.

Einst Feat: At 3rd level the Einst Queen gains a Pilot Feat of her choice. At the start of her turn she can choose to lose any or all of those bonus feats and make them apply to all the Einst Drones under her Queen's Will, as long as they meet any needed prerequisites (they count as Pilots as you do). This chance lasts until the start of your next turm. At 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 20th level you gain another such Bonus feat.


Star Devourer: At 20th level the Einst Queen and her drones become immune to all enviromental ill effects. Acid rain? Interior of the Sun? No problem! They can also now consume any kind of matter for nutrients, altough things that previously didn't grant any useable nutrients now grants only 1/100th. In addition the Einst Queen can now give birth to new 1st level Einst Queens!  This takes 1000 tons of nutrients, and after birthed the new Einst Queen will need fifteen years of maturing before being able to start to make her own Einst Drones. She will never attack her "mother", but is otherwise a new independent entity. She uses the same stat generation and has either her "mother"s race, or any basic humanoid race her mother ever consumed. If two new Einst Queens from the same mother are maturing at the same time, they'll do everything on their power to kill their sister, each trying to become the favored daughter.

If the Einst Queen is killed, she may transfer her mind to any of her surviving daughters. She automatically gains one level per hour and ten tons of nutrient consumed until having the same levels as before, and automatically matures as well if she hadn't before, and her skills and feats change to match her previous choices as well. Any other of her other previous daughters will now be fully hostile to her however, and if killed again she can only transfer her mind to any daughters birthed after her "reincarnation".

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 02:26:54 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 02:30:45 PM »
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 05:43:49 AM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 02:31:16 PM »
And reserved as well. BTW, I used "Eint" because "space monster" just felt too corny.

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 06:51:47 PM »
Neat, I used the same picture you took for multiclass real/einst for my mecha.

The class concept is great and quite interesting.

Two sentences are incomplete. Here they are:
-At the start of the Bioframe spoiler: "She can also choose to produce her bioframes in non-mecha scale, in which case [?]"
-Mid-way in the Infiltrator Queen, though this ones seems more like the beginning of a sentence that was rewritten with what follows it: "She also has[?]Despite being humanoid-sized..."

Einst Drones
-I think Interrupted isn't the word you want in this sentence:
Quote
She needs only one hour of Interrupted concentration per einst drone level she wants to produce.
-How do you actually determine drone level? Perhaps you meant bioframe level?
-When you say "raw, soft, inorganic matter", do you mean by raw that the matter isn't manufactured? The softness requirement is also a little strange considering that the heavier organic matter that are preferred tend to not be soft. Would crushing/grinding hard inorganic matter to dust make them soft?
-I might actually be wrong somehow, and it isn't really important, but here goes.
If we go by the idea that organic matter is stuff with a chemical compound of carbon, then soil can be organic so it might not be the best example of inorganic matter. Water (in its pure state) is a good one though.

Quote
The Einst Queen can consume one ton of nutrients of any type per level per minute, and store ten times that inside her own body for later use.
-By 'level', do you mean character level or class level?
-Since there is only 10 round per minute, can the consumption process eventually become round-based?
ie: A level 10 queen consuming 1 ton per round, a level 5 queen consuming 1 ton per 2 rounds...
A different wording to make that work would be having them consume 1/10 of a ton times their 'level' per round with a full-round action. Perfect for tearing limbs off your kills and eating them bits by bits instead of waiting a while to eat them whole.
-What kind of action is required to store the nutrients inside the body.
-Organic matter from sentient creatures are still organic while they are alive. I imagine we can only consume/store these nutrients if the creature is dead (and not undead), unless you mean to also make it work if it cannot defend itself during the whole process.

Adaptative Queen
A potential problem with this is that the queen replaces the drone's core. A successful damage dealing critical hit is an instant kill for a drone because it automatically destroys the core. It seems well intended that, if this happens to a piloted drone, the queen gets damaged the way pilots normally are by crits but it could be read that the queen is destroyed like the core would be and thus both are instantly destroyed.

Infiltrator Queen
Something I see here is that a small dip in this class is all it takes to take Infiltrator Queen and gain instant mecha-scale conversion. Especially considering it only needs energy that is recharged every round anyway.

Einst Feat
Only thing I find potentially abusive about it is that having them all share your feat selections might lead to strange things like a bunch of drones with funnels (if you can fulfill its requirements with a dip or some other means), a bunch of drones with relationship feats and other similar tricks.

Bioweapons
Quote
Every Bioframe comes with a free Bite bioweapon that deals 1d6 damage per bioframe level.
-How does that work with the size of the bioframe and other possible damage die size adjustments applied to it?

Ammo
Considering that, unlike mechas, drones with weapons limited by ammo can just recharge them with nutrients without going back to base, and that each drone can store a bunch of them (ten tons of nutrients per bioframe level; you should put that detail in the drone section instead of the bioweapon section, by the way), the ammo count of those weapons should probably be a lot lower. I assume that recharging a weapon is the same for them as putting a cartridge from the arsenal, but maybe you should clarify that point.

Bit of a contradiction:
Quote
Einst Drones can only ever count their own Queen and other Drones birthed by her as allies. Other creatures cannot ever count the Einst Drones as allies.
Quote
They may still attack einst drones of different kinds, even if spawned from the same Queen.

About multiclassing:
I think the setup you used is perfect for a Infiltrator Queen. I think it would be more fitting if an Adaptative Queen had something more similar to a real/super multiclass effect by having the levels stack for arsenal/bioweapon/mutation(and effective Bioframe level to determine mutation power) purposes the way super and real stack together for that. In the case of the real multiclass, the levels would stack only for the piloted mecha (not the other drones) and in the case of a super multiclass, the levels would stack only for the piloted drone. The Adaptive Queen could have the piloted drone get full upgrades instead of half similarly to how a real robot gets full upgrades. On the other hand, it hasn't been made clear but I think the maneuvers granted by super pilot are intended to only be usable by a piloted drone, not by the other drones under your will as an Infiltrator Queen can each class level. On the same train of though, perhaps the only maneuvers that should be usable by non-piloted drones should be maneuvers gained as part of its Einst Queen abilities, and not from other sources.

You gave good fluff for the captain multiclass (infecting a ship). Similar fluff could be detailed for the other two. Say, real pilot being getting a mecha built along with a drone spawning process or infecting a mecha that the queen already had.
A Queen becoming a super pilot could indeed go straight to spawning super drones but a super pilot becoming a queen (and already has the robot) could have the first drone it makes eat the robot and get super powers (or the queen uses it for super nutriments).

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 06:54:14 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 09:24:42 AM »
Neat, I used the same picture you took for multiclass real/einst for my mecha.

The class concept is great and quite interesting.

Two sentences are incomplete. Here they are:
-At the start of the Bioframe spoiler: "She can also choose to produce her bioframes in non-mecha scale, in which case [?]"
-Mid-way in the Infiltrator Queen, though this ones seems more like the beginning of a sentence that was rewritten with what follows it: "She also has[?]Despite being humanoid-sized..."
Einst Drones
-I think Interrupted isn't the word you want in this sentence:
Quote
She needs only one hour of Interrupted concentration per einst drone level she wants to produce.
-How do you actually determine drone level? Perhaps you meant bioframe level?
Fixed typos.

-When you say "raw, soft, inorganic matter", do you mean by raw that the matter isn't manufactured? The softness requirement is also a little strange considering that the heavier organic matter that are preferred tend to not be soft. Would crushing/grinding hard inorganic matter to dust make them soft?
It would make them soft, but they would no longer count as raw.

-I might actually be wrong somehow, and it isn't really important, but here goes.
If we go by the idea that organic matter is stuff with a chemical compound of carbon, then soil can be organic so it might not be the best example of inorganic matter. Water (in its pure state) is a good one though.
Checking wikipedia, either the definition of organic changed since I had my biology classes, or they screwed up again.

Either way clarified that it's the version that I learned: stuff with all of oxygen, hydrogen and carbon. So some kind of very rich soils would count. Not all.

Quote
The Einst Queen can consume one ton of nutrients of any type per level per minute, and store ten times that inside her own body for later use.
-By 'level', do you mean character level or class level?
I still have no idea what's the difference between those, so clarified that it's Queen level.

-Since there is only 10 round per minute, can the consumption process eventually become round-based?
ie: A level 10 queen consuming 1 ton per round, a level 5 queen consuming 1 ton per 2 rounds...
A different wording to make that work would be having them consume 1/10 of a ton times their 'level' per round with a full-round action. Perfect for tearing limbs off your kills and eating them bits by bits instead of waiting a while to eat them whole.
It already is supposed to be a gradual process over 1 minute, not "stare for 60 exact seconds, 1 ton of matter is instantly teleported inside your stomach". More "spend 1 minute properly chewing".

-What kind of action is required to store the nutrients inside the body.
The same action needed for 1 minute casting spell.

-Organic matter from sentient creatures are still organic while they are alive. I imagine we can only consume/store these nutrients if the creature is dead (and not undead), unless you mean to also make it work if it cannot defend itself during the whole process.
Clarified that it also works on fresh corpses, but if you can keep them still, sure eat them alive.

Adaptative Queen
A potential problem with this is that the queen replaces the drone's core. A successful damage dealing critical hit is an instant kill for a drone because it automatically destroys the core. It seems well intended that, if this happens to a piloted drone, the queen gets damaged the way pilots normally are by crits but it could be read that the queen is destroyed like the core would be and thus both are instantly destroyed.
I would've believed that the part where the Queen is expelled should the drone be destroyed would already imply that, but added extra clarification just in case.

Infiltrator Queen
Something I see here is that a small dip in this class is all it takes to take Infiltrator Queen and gain instant mecha-scale conversion. Especially considering it only needs energy that is recharged every round anyway.
And that's why it is in the mecha subforum, since it is supposed to play side by side with other mecha characters.

Einst Feat
Only thing I find potentially abusive about it is that having them all share your feat selections might lead to strange things like a bunch of drones with funnels (if you can fulfill its requirements with a dip or some other means), a bunch of drones with relationship feats and other similar tricks.
Hmm, Love and Devotion won't do much since they don't have actual HD. I'm kinda fine with Rivarly and Friendship working on drones.

Added clause that they need to meet any needed prerequisites besides being a pilot.
Also added Primordial Pilot ability to the Einst Queen, that includes the swarm of einst drones to replace funnels. The other drones themselves can't

Bioweapons
Quote
Every Bioframe comes with a free Bite bioweapon that deals 1d6 damage per bioframe level.
-How does that work with the size of the bioframe and other possible damage die size adjustments applied to it?
Is increased for bigger bioframes.

Ammo
Considering that, unlike mechas, drones with weapons limited by ammo can just recharge them with nutrients without going back to base, and that each drone can store a bunch of them (ten tons of nutrients per bioframe level; you should put that detail in the drone section instead of the bioweapon section, by the way), the ammo count of those weapons should probably be a lot lower. I assume that recharging a weapon is the same for them as putting a cartridge from the arsenal, but maybe you should clarify that point.
Good points, reduced ammo and clarified.

Bit of a contradiction:
Quote
Einst Drones can only ever count their own Queen and other Drones birthed by her as allies. Other creatures cannot ever count the Einst Drones as allies.
Quote
They may still attack einst drones of different kinds, even if spawned from the same Queen.
There's no contradiction. You can attack your own allies just fine in D&D. Would be kinda hard to have backstabbigs and whatnot without it. :p

About multiclassing:
I think the setup you used is perfect for a Infiltrator Queen. I think it would be more fitting if an Adaptative Queen had something more similar to a real/super multiclass effect by having the levels stack for arsenal/bioweapon/mutation(and effective Bioframe level to determine mutation power) purposes the way super and real stack together for that.

In the case of the real multiclass, the levels would stack only for the piloted mecha (not the other drones) and in the case of a super multiclass, the levels would stack only for the piloted drone. The Adaptive Queen could have the piloted drone get full upgrades instead of half similarly to how a real robot gets full upgrades.
Made it stack for purpose of Mutation level. Otherwise it just feels like it would pull ahead of the infiltrator queen too much.

On the other hand, it hasn't been made clear but I think the maneuvers granted by super pilot are intended to only be usable by a piloted drone, not by the other drones under your will as an Infiltrator Queen can each class level. On the same train of though, perhaps the only maneuvers that should be usable by non-piloted drones should be maneuvers gained as part of its Einst Queen abilities, and not from other sources.
Actually, the plan was precisely for the drones to learn super maneuvers and stances as well, to represent Getter/Mazinger monsters with the more bizarre powers. Added a clause that they can only use said super maneuvers while under Queen's Will.

You gave good fluff for the captain multiclass (infecting a ship). Similar fluff could be detailed for the other two. Say, real pilot being getting a mecha built along with a drone spawning process or infecting a mecha that the queen already had.
A Queen becoming a super pilot could indeed go straight to spawning super drones but a super pilot becoming a queen (and already has the robot) could have the first drone it makes eat the robot and get super powers (or the queen uses it for super nutriments).
Added a bit more fluff then.

Hope this helps.
It did. Thanks!

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 10:16:51 AM »
Quote
In addition the Einst Queen can now give birth to new 1st level Einst Queens!  This takes 1000 tons of nutrients, and after birthed the new Einst Queen will need fifteen years of maturing before being able to start to make her own Einst Drones.

Logically, this should be required to take place inside stars.

Why have you made another pilot class that I want to play? So cruel. I have nowhere to use these things. :<*

Quote
Abilities: Einst Queens should favor balanced physical scores to make their own spawns stronger.

I'm not really seeing any places where her stats actually make a difference to the spawns.

*On an insane note, I for some reason would be inclined to have a Planetar//Einst Queen.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 10:20:11 AM by Raineh Daze »
I hate picking signatures.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 12:02:38 PM »
Quote
In addition the Einst Queen can now give birth to new 1st level Einst Queens!  This takes 1000 tons of nutrients, and after birthed the new Einst Queen will need fifteen years of maturing before being able to start to make her own Einst Drones.

Logically, this should be required to take place inside stars.

Why have you made another pilot class that I want to play? So cruel. I have nowhere to use these things. :<*

*On an insane note, I for some reason would be inclined to have a Planetar//Einst Queen.
On a probably  more insane note, I'm planning on starting another PbP online campaign, but first I want to minimally flesh out a new setting where I shamelessly steal more things from a bunch of mecha anime/manga explore new ideas.

Basic ideas I have so far:
-Multiple factions, each viewing/using mechas in a different way.
-"Machine-gods" faction, where mecha pilots rule the non-mecha peasants, and the guys/girls with the strongest mechas rule the lesser mechas, all ruled by an uber-mecha.  The elite rarely leaves their machines cockpits, and usually furnish the insides with all kinds of luxuries. Includes a "La Resistance" movement that tries to take control of said super mechas whenever possible.
-A civilization where people who are starting to get old are expected to swap their flesh bodies for new shiny Android frames, and from there possibly are integrated as mecha AIs, or into new android frames. Always aim for the newer, shinier model Anyone who refuses to "upgrade" their older bodies is seemed as a pariah and ostracized in full extent. Rumors that the agencies that do the upgrading take the chance to implant subroutines and behavior controls to keep the population in check are just silly stories. Now go fulfill your daily smiley quota citizen! Ruled by a complex collection of linked cyber-organic AI cores, which are periodically rotated out by new ones.
-Magictech faction, uses heavy uses of giant monsters with guns (aka multiclass einst drones).
-"Wanderer" faction that has no home planet and just lives in ever-moving battleships, some as bloodthirsty pirates, others as merchants between planets, others prefering to explore the unknown stars, sometimes coming back to tell tales of their findings. Sometimes all three depending on events.
-"Average" faction that uses a bit of everything, alternates between democracy and tyranny.
-Einsts. Duh! Considered more of a natural calamity than an actual civilization, the other sides usually just choose to fight them long enough to relocate their assets to another planet, leaving the Einst to nom their old home to a lifeless rock for the next years/decades, if they're lucky.


Would you (or anyone else around here) be interested in helping get that started? I could start a thread for it.
 
Quote
Abilities: Einst Queens should favor balanced physical scores to make their own spawns stronger.

I'm not really seeing any places where her stats actually make a difference to the spawns.
Queen's Will allows your spawns to use your own ability scores if they're better than the drone's own.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 12:09:12 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 12:34:54 PM »
I'd be interested, though I would rather not play as a horde of alien space locusts. Fortunately there's enough ways to fudge things (I think most buffing cleric spells could actually be refluffed as temporary retroviruses, for one, which would make for interesting flavour if combining with... well, angels) to not end up on that side. XD

And I'm not sure how much use I am in making things.

Quote
Quote
Abilities: Einst Queens should favor balanced physical scores to make their own spawns stronger.

I'm not really seeing any places where her stats actually make a difference to the spawns.
Queen's Will allows your spawns to use your own ability scores if they're better than the drone's own.

Makes me think you're better off dumping CON (since this stuff is supposed to be gestalt, make the other half a Construct, probably) and possibly INT, since they don't help your drones out at all, than average everything.

Not sure how I missed that, though. >_>;
I hate picking signatures.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3722
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 08:44:28 PM »
Oh hell yeah I'd play it.

I want to be a Ship Captain next after all :D
Also I want to use this almost as much as Raineh does  :lmao (But it'd probably just be a dip)

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 08:47:19 PM »
Oh hell yeah I'd play it.

I want to be a Ship Captain next after all :D
Also I want to use this almost as much as Raineh does  :lmao (But it'd probably just be a dip)

No fair, we'd run out of organic resources. ;~;

I want my fleshy army! Then I can keep subjecting people to random Gunbuster music.
I hate picking signatures.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3722
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 08:51:46 PM »
It's funny that the capstone ability lets you effectively spawn drones out of thin air (literally) :P

Oh hell yeah I'd play it.

I want to be a Ship Captain next after all :D
Also I want to use this almost as much as Raineh does  :lmao (But it'd probably just be a dip)

No fair, we'd run out of organic resources. ;~;

I want my fleshy army! Then I can keep subjecting people to random Gunbuster music.

I just want a giant space ship that eats asteroids :v

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 12:27:28 PM »
Quote
I still have no idea what's the difference between those, so clarified that it's Queen level.
Character level is pretty much our HD. 'Class level' always refers to levels in the class you detail.
Say, if paladin gives heals based on its class level, they are talking about is levels in the paladin class.

Quote
It already is supposed to be a gradual process over 1 minute, not "stare for 60 exact seconds, 1 ton of matter is instantly teleported inside your stomach". More "spend 1 minute properly chewing".
Yeah, I tried to picture that but then I imagined a queen being interrupted and having to spit out the stuff. Its alright though.

Quote
The same action needed for 1 minute casting spell.
Oh, I see. The way it was written I thought consuming and storing were two different things. Consuming getting permanent nutrients and storing being keeping food around inside you to consume them later. Now I see that nutrients consumed are stored.

Quote
And that's why it is in the mecha subforum, since it is supposed to play side by side with other mecha characters.
Well, I guess then that it is assumed that nobody can pick classes in this subforum unless every players do.

Quote
Is increased for bigger bioframes.
As long as you're conscious that because of the way damage die size increases progresses the damage of the bigger drones will be ridiculously high. Especially since the base is for small size instead of medium.
A Vormund (IV) would have 4d6 start at 8d6 before further size increases, okay, but a Allgemein (VI) would have its 6d6 turned into a whoppin' 32d6 base weapon damage.

Quote
There's no contradiction. You can attack your own allies just fine in D&D. Would be kinda hard to have backstabbigs and whatnot without it.
Oh, sure, I just thought because the mention of friendly fire was in the Instinct area that they can choose to attack each-other by instinct, without you having a say on the matter, so a feeder type that would feel another feeder type in its harvest zone could determine that the other feeder is the highest source of nutriments in the area and they would thus kill and cannibalize each other automatically. Time-wise, quite counter-productive.

Quote
Made it stack for purpose of Mutation level. Otherwise it just feels like it would pull ahead of the infiltrator queen too much.
I don't see that happening. Currently Infiltrator is ways superior in every direction: Mecha scale in every situation, maneuvers for itself and its drones (which share its stats, effectively giving it the ability to do 3 times as many maneuvers as your average martial artist. A significant advantage. It is way easier to abuse no matter how I look at it.) Compared to conditional mecha scale and maybe a few super upgrade-like abilities that doesn't offer as much variety.
An Adaptive's advantage over an Infiltrator is meant to be that it pilots a drone. Technically, just the fact that it can pilot the drone is countered by the Infiltrator pumpin' itself to mecha scale in every situation and can also count as a disadvantage considering it means the Adaptive has 3 sources of actions with things that have her stats opposed to the Infiltrator that has a 4th (itself). Having access to mutations is a poor compensation for access to maneuvers and stances (nevermind being able to give them to your drones to boot). You have less actions per round and you don't have as many options with them, but you have a protective shell that gives you some buffs (though an Infiltrator could get something similar by leading a mob of her own drones).
Both queen types sacrifice bioframe and bioweapon progression when they multiclass.

If you multiclass Real to the Adaptive: gets to pilot either her drones (weaker for multiclassing) or a mecha (weaker) with bioweapons (weaker as well). Cannot grant the mecha mutations since it specifies that only drones replace bioweapons for them. Even if the mecha could get mutations, all I really see is that dipping in Real is more or less a small delay in your bioframe progression to get what is pretty much an additional drone (but you can get more of those by having a better bioframe level anyway). Focusing on Real Pilot would give a better mecha and maneuvers in trade for having 3 weak drones.
If you multiclass Real to the Infiltrator: Gets to... wait, it is a pilot too now. So now it gets to pilot stuff like the Adaptive while still being able to be on mecha scale while it isn't. So focusing on Queen means you just get more maneuvers, your drones are still good and you get sort of a drone that you can pilot while focusing on Real gives you a better mecha but bad drones. They still have martial maneuvers though. Overall it is much better.

If you multiclass Super to the Adaptive: The bioframes already feel like the Real pilot system so it feels like multiclassing a real pilot to a super pilot, except only your mutations progress instead of your arsenal and the upgrades of the drone you pilot gets half ugrades. Your other drones get them too though. What a dedicated real pilot gained could usually be sort of kept if it multiclassed in super pilot instead since it balance its losses with super upgrades. An Adaptive does not, however.
Now you have some maneuvers too. Neat. And more spirits to pump your drones, and half super upgrades and in time weaker Arsenal options if you get enough super levels. So overall you sacrifice better bioframes and bioweapons (that you can turn into mutations, however). You don't get enough super upgrades to fill the gap (and the important upgrades are covered by the mutations anyway) but at least you get maneuvers for you and your drones in trade.
Focusing on Queen limits the drop in drone quality to get perhaps a few upgrades that were interesting and a few maneuvers
If you multiclass Super to the Infiltrator: More maneuvers but you already have good ones that you can use in any circumstances so hampering martial progress to get a different martial class might not be so hot. However, your drones get maneuvers without swapping a bioweapon slot, which is interesting. Focusing on either Queen or Super pilot is a move to consider depending on the playing style (swarming tactics vs tactical burst, I feel) but focusing on Queen should be more profitable since you can get more drones and thus more maneuvers (and better ones) initiated with your stats each round with your higher bioframe level.
Quote
Actually, the plan was precisely for the drones to learn super maneuvers and stances as well, to represent Getter/Mazinger monsters with the more bizarre powers. Added a clause that they can only use said super maneuvers while under Queen's Will.
They already can by having the Infiltrator learn the bizarre powers and giving them to its drones.
I still feel that granting them martial initiation of their own (instead of being able to channel maneuvers through them, as with the dolls of DJ) is a very dangerous move.

Quote
-Campaign Idea- Would you (or anyone else around here) be interested in helping get that started? I could start a thread for it.
I love to help when I can but right now until the next 3 months will be rather busy days for me.
I'll probably be able to share ideas until about the end of this month and after that I'm not sure on the level of freedom/time I'll have to spend on the internet. Depends mostly on the conditions of the place I'll have to work at, but I know I'll be able to get some time for that kind of stuff at least next week.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 12:29:48 PM »
Quote
Actually, the plan was precisely for the drones to learn super maneuvers and stances as well, to represent Getter/Mazinger monsters with the more bizarre powers. Added a clause that they can only use said super maneuvers while under Queen's Will.
They already can by having the Infiltrator learn the bizarre powers and giving them to its drones.
I still feel that granting them martial initiation of their own (instead of being able to channel maneuvers through them, as with the dolls of DJ) is a very dangerous move.

Having to channel them through drones seems like it'd defeat the point of their being, well, drones, and having their own actions.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 12:33:50 PM by Raineh Daze »
I hate picking signatures.

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 12:46:43 PM »
No. It just means that you use your own actions to have them initiate a maneuver. The drones are one of its class features, its always all about the queen, and not all about the drones. Like a familiar delivering a touch spell for its wizard.
The drones can be the focus of the class but their power stems from the queen. Without it they are lost.
But really, its all about balance before anything else.

Also, about multiclassing, is there the option to keep the abilities separate? Like being a queen/real pilot/super pilot and having your super/real robot along with your drones but the drones don't get any super upgrades/maneuvers/other from it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 12:57:16 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2014, 06:45:37 PM »
Quote
And that's why it is in the mecha subforum, since it is supposed to play side by side with other mecha characters.
Well, I guess then that it is assumed that nobody can pick classes in this subforum unless every players do.
As detailed in the intro thread when talking about mechas vs non-mecha.

Quote
Is increased for bigger bioframes.
As long as you're conscious that because of the way damage die size increases progresses the damage of the bigger drones will be ridiculously high. Especially since the base is for small size instead of medium.
A Vormund (IV) would have 4d6 start at 8d6 before further size increases, okay, but a Allgemein (VI) would have its 6d6 turned into a whoppin' 32d6 base weapon damage.
Pfftt, you're level 16 by then, I don't see much problem. :P

Quote
There's no contradiction. You can attack your own allies just fine in D&D. Would be kinda hard to have backstabbigs and whatnot without it.
Oh, sure, I just thought because the mention of friendly fire was in the Instinct area that they can choose to attack each-other by instinct, without you having a say on the matter, so a feeder type that would feel another feeder type in its harvest zone could determine that the other feeder is the highest source of nutriments in the area and they would thus kill and cannibalize each other automatically. Time-wise, quite counter-productive.
Only if they're of diferent kinds. If they're equal, they won't try to nom each other. But yes, kinda to prevent you from being able to deploy a bunch of different drones and let them just multiply freely. If you want unsupervised mass production, you'll end up with many of the same.

Quote
Made it stack for purpose of Mutation level. Otherwise it just feels like it would pull ahead of the infiltrator queen too much.
I don't see that happening. Currently Infiltrator is ways superior in every direction: Mecha scale in every situation, maneuvers for itself and its drones (which share its stats, effectively giving it the ability to do 3 times as many maneuvers as your average martial artist. A significant advantage. It is way easier to abuse no matter how I look at it.) Compared to conditional mecha scale and maybe a few super upgrade-like abilities that doesn't offer as much variety.
An Adaptive's advantage over an Infiltrator is meant to be that it pilots a drone. Technically, just the fact that it can pilot the drone is countered by the Infiltrator pumpin' itself to mecha scale in every situation and can also count as a disadvantage considering it means the Adaptive has 3 sources of actions with things that have her stats opposed to the Infiltrator that has a 4th (itself). Having access to mutations is a poor compensation for access to maneuvers and stances (nevermind being able to give them to your drones to boot). You have less actions per round and you don't have as many options with them, but you have a protective shell that gives you some buffs (though an Infiltrator could get something similar by leading a mob of her own drones).
Eeerr, the adaptative Queen doesn't have less actions per round. She gets to pilot a drone, and the drone will surely have better base stats than the Infiltrator Queen. Then they both have equal Queen's Will. The piloted drone is, well, piloted, so it gets to use the Queen's stats and Bab and stuff without needing to be under Queen's Will. The Infiltrator Queen can swap bioweapons for maneuvers, and Adaptative Queen can swap bioweapons for mutations. Now you may have a case that the maneuvers are probably better than the mutations, but the Mutations are also the only way you're unlocking mass drone production, regeneration of HP and/or energy, and a bunch of other utilities. And at the end of the day the infiltrator Queen trying to fight head on isn't gonna end well without an actual mecha to tank hits and provide weapons, while the Adaptative Queen gets a cozy biobattlesuit, which can be discarded and swapped pretty easily.

Both queen types sacrifice bioframe and bioweapon progression when they multiclass.

If you multiclass Real to the Adaptive: gets to pilot either her drones (weaker for multiclassing) or a mecha (weaker) with bioweapons (weaker as well). Cannot grant the mecha mutations since it specifies that only drones replace bioweapons for them. Even if the mecha could get mutations, all I really see is that dipping in Real is more or less a small delay in your bioframe progression to get what is pretty much an additional drone (but you can get more of those by having a better bioframe level anyway). Focusing on Real Pilot would give a better mecha and maneuvers in trade for having 3 weak drones.
If you multiclass Real to the Infiltrator: Gets to... wait, it is a pilot too now. So now it gets to pilot stuff like the Adaptive while still being able to be on mecha scale while it isn't. So focusing on Queen means you just get more maneuvers, your drones are still good and you get sort of a drone that you can pilot while focusing on Real gives you a better mecha but bad drones. They still have martial maneuvers though. Overall it is much better.
Ups, forgot to clarify that the multiclass Real Queen can get Mutations if you're an Adaptative Queen. I would also point out that counting as mecha scale is kinda usless when you're inside a mecha. Not very synergetic.

If you multiclass Super to the Adaptive: The bioframes already feel like the Real pilot system so it feels like multiclassing a real pilot to a super pilot, except only your mutations progress instead of your arsenal and the upgrades of the drone you pilot gets half ugrades. Your other drones get them too though. What a dedicated real pilot gained could usually be sort of kept if it multiclassed in super pilot instead since it balance its losses with super upgrades. An Adaptive does not, however.
Now you have some maneuvers too. Neat. And more spirits to pump your drones, and half super upgrades and in time weaker Arsenal options if you get enough super levels. So overall you sacrifice better bioframes and bioweapons (that you can turn into mutations, however). You don't get enough super upgrades to fill the gap (and the important upgrades are covered by the mutations anyway) but at least you get maneuvers for you and your drones in trade.
Focusing on Queen limits the drop in drone quality to get perhaps a few upgrades that were interesting and a few maneuvers
If you multiclass Super to the Infiltrator: More maneuvers but you already have good ones that you can use in any circumstances so hampering martial progress to get a different martial class might not be so hot. However, your drones get maneuvers without swapping a bioweapon slot, which is interesting. Focusing on either Queen or Super pilot is a move to consider depending on the playing style (swarming tactics vs tactical burst, I feel) but focusing on Queen should be more profitable since you can get more drones and thus more maneuvers (and better ones) initiated with your stats each round with your higher bioframe level.

I'll keep those points in mind for when a playtest opportunity appears.

Quote
Actually, the plan was precisely for the drones to learn super maneuvers and stances as well, to represent Getter/Mazinger monsters with the more bizarre powers. Added a clause that they can only use said super maneuvers while under Queen's Will.
They already can by having the Infiltrator learn the bizarre powers and giving them to its drones.
I still feel that granting them martial initiation of their own (instead of being able to channel maneuvers through them, as with the dolls of DJ) is a very dangerous move.
Put another limitation that a single drone can use the maneuvers per round. So you get a "mecha monsters attack one by one" feel of super robot shows. :P

Quote
-Campaign Idea- Would you (or anyone else around here) be interested in helping get that started? I could start a thread for it.
I love to help when I can but right now until the next 3 months will be rather busy days for me.
I'll probably be able to share ideas until about the end of this month and after that I'm not sure on the level of freedom/time I'll have to spend on the internet. Depends mostly on the conditions of the place I'll have to work at, but I know I'll be able to get some time for that kind of stuff at least next week.

And I'm not sure how much use I am in making things.

Well, my original plan was more of "I do the bulk writing, people point out the silly points/plot holes and I try to fix them". Business as usual. If you want/can contribute anything beyond that, great. :p

Also, about multiclassing, is there the option to keep the abilities separate? Like being a queen/real pilot/super pilot and having your super/real robot along with your drones but the drones don't get any super upgrades/maneuvers/other from it.
A Real Queen still keeps her drones, they just won't upgrade anymore. So why would you want your drones to don't upgrade from the super side?

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2014, 06:50:38 PM »
I am more interested in Adaptive Queen, if it means anything. :lmao
I hate picking signatures.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3722
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2014, 07:58:14 PM »
Honestly, I find Adaptive Queen more interesting for my intents as well :P

Also, would it be too much trouble if you ordered the Bioweapons by level?

Gosh, so if there was a setting to play this in, and hopefully gestalt :p, I'm already looking out how I could put together a Ship Captain//Adaptive Einst Queen(No more than 4 levels anyways)/Super Pilot :D

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2014, 08:25:20 PM »
Honestly, I find Adaptive Queen more interesting for my intents as well :P

Also, would it be too much trouble if you ordered the Bioweapons by level?

Gosh, so if there was a setting to play this in, and hopefully gestalt :p, I'm already looking out how I could put together a Ship Captain//Adaptive Einst Queen(No more than 4 levels anyways)/Super Pilot :D

That is a terrible Gestalt and makes me sad. : (

I think the entire point of this stuff is to gestalt [Super Robot Wars Class]//Other Class; this way mecha awesomeness can mix with relatively normal classes, without crippling characters should they be split off from mecha scale.
I hate picking signatures.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3722
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2014, 08:33:07 PM »
Terrible, you say?

I get a living Ship Drone that eats planets and space rocks!
I get to use a Drone as a Mecha for situations where I have to leave my Ship behind to adventure with the party.
I get to be eaten my Ship and pilot it in battle for super cool space battles!
I get to Transform my ship (Assuming Super Pilot-Ship Captain interaction leads to Super Ship with Super Upgrades like I believe was allowed in the Phantasy Star game) into battle mode (And maybe even Sentience for smart Ship Drone without needing to Queen's Will it to make it be less suicidal!)!
I get to Mutation my Drones and then put them in my Ship to have a Ship with Upgrades & Mutations! (Assumedly)
Screw mechanics, this is a thematically bad ass idea. It's like FLCL Gurren Lagann :P
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 08:34:52 PM by ketaro »

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2014, 08:54:32 PM »
So either you're comparatively useless on a non-mecha scale, or you're good on a non-mecha scale, and in a mecha-scale situation you get to count as a super robot/ship captain multiclass higher than your actual level and have Einst Queen/Ship Captain drones. Um. The second half is horrific regardless.
I hate picking signatures.