Author Topic: Einst Queen  (Read 5406 times)

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3722
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2014, 10:23:21 PM »
Whatevs lady :v
I'm having fun :P

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »
Quote
Quote
As long as you're conscious that because of the way damage die size increases progresses the damage of the bigger drones will be ridiculously high. Especially since the base is for small size instead of medium.
A Vormund (IV) would have 4d6 start at 8d6 before further size increases, okay, but a Allgemein (VI) would have its 6d6 turned into a whoppin' 32d6 base weapon damage.

Pfftt, you're level 16 by then, I don't see much problem. :P
8d6 at level 10 (before adjustments) is already pretty high. I don't think there is a level for 112 average base weapon damage before any modifier and that is without increasing it further. If there is one level 16 certainly isn't it.

Quote
Eeerr, the adaptative Queen doesn't have less actions per round.
Correct. My mistake.

Quote
Now you may have a case that the maneuvers are probably better than the mutations, but the Mutations are also the only way you're unlocking mass drone production, regeneration of HP and/or energy, and a bunch of other utilities.
There is no doubt that maneuvers trump the mutations. Regen of hp/energy can be taken with Super Pilot multiclassing and some maneuvers heal, prevent damage altogether or brings back from the dead when all else fails. They can be useful, no doubts about that, but it cannot compare to a bunch of separate entities with their own actions nova-ing their maneuvers together with your stats. Mass drone production can be a fun gimmick to work on but its what I call 'unreliable power' since you have no control over it. It is as use-ful/less as the GM wants it to be.
The point I'm making here is merely that the infiltrator queen is easier to optimize than the adaptive queen by far. Getting something else to tank for it besides one of its drones isn't that complicated and when you can outnumber your enemies by yourself and burst everything with your army, you don't have to fight head-on yourself.
All that isn't to say that the adaptive queen isn't powerful. Einst Queen is a powerhouse no matter which way you go.

Quote
I would also point out that counting as mecha scale is kinda usless when you're inside a mecha. Not very synergetic.
Inside a mecha it isn't as useful (there are still ways though. You might get to see how before long) but the idea is mostly that you can still use it when you cannot pilot your mecha.

Quote
Put another limitation that a single drone can use the maneuvers per round. So you get a "mecha monsters attack one by one" feel of super robot shows.
A lot stronger than channeling but way more balanced than how it was. Thanks.

Quote
Well, my original plan was more of "I do the bulk writing, people point out the silly points/plot holes and I try to fix them". Business as usual. If you want/can contribute anything beyond that, great.
Alright. Will look at the building blocks first and see when I've time online.

Quote
Quote
Also, about multiclassing, is there the option to keep the abilities separate? Like being a queen/real pilot/super pilot and having your super/real robot along with your drones but the drones don't get any super upgrades/maneuvers/other from it.
A Real Queen still keeps her drones, they just won't upgrade anymore. So why would you want your drones to don't upgrade from the super side?
There are ways to get the best of a situation. I've a few ways in mind this can be a lot more useful than it sounds.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2014, 01:09:37 PM »
Quote
Quote
As long as you're conscious that because of the way damage die size increases progresses the damage of the bigger drones will be ridiculously high. Especially since the base is for small size instead of medium.
A Vormund (IV) would have 4d6 start at 8d6 before further size increases, okay, but a Allgemein (VI) would have its 6d6 turned into a whoppin' 32d6 base weapon damage.

Pfftt, you're level 16 by then, I don't see much problem. :P
8d6 at level 10 (before adjustments) is already pretty high. I don't think there is a level for 112 average base weapon damage before any modifier and that is without increasing it further. If there is one level 16 certainly isn't it.

Well, I have a character that was Colossal at level 10, and has been wandering around with that weapon size for over a year now. I don't think it's something terribly concerning here.

Quote
Quote
I would also point out that counting as mecha scale is kinda usless when you're inside a mecha. Not very synergetic.

Inside a mecha it isn't as useful (there are still ways though. You might get to see how before long) but the idea is mostly that you can still use it when you cannot pilot your mecha.

Can you just point out how now so it can be fixed before you do something stupid with it?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 01:12:15 PM by Raineh Daze »
I hate picking signatures.

Offline Anomander

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2442
  • I did it to feel.
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2014, 03:31:36 PM »
Quote
Well, I have a character that was Colossal at level 10, and has been wandering around with that weapon size for over a year now. I don't think it's something terribly concerning here.
There is a big difference between having someone with colossal size (and weapon size) and having a weapon with a base damage that scales quickly before it is adjusted by size. Your colossal size character got its build set to get that much. This is by itself before any other trick to improve it.

Quote
Can you just point out how now so it can be fixed before you do something stupid with it?
Passengers in mecha-scale. Using abilities with the pilot/passengers on mecha-scale without using the mecha itself (in the cases the mecha cannot use them).

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2014, 01:43:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
As long as you're conscious that because of the way damage die size increases progresses the damage of the bigger drones will be ridiculously high. Especially since the base is for small size instead of medium.
A Vormund (IV) would have 4d6 start at 8d6 before further size increases, okay, but a Allgemein (VI) would have its 6d6 turned into a whoppin' 32d6 base weapon damage.

Pfftt, you're level 16 by then, I don't see much problem. :P
8d6 at level 10 (before adjustments) is already pretty high. I don't think there is a level for 112 average base weapon damage before any modifier and that is without increasing it further. If there is one level 16 certainly isn't it.
Allright, removed the scaling by level. I guess if they want it, they can just pick the bioweapons.

Quote
Now you may have a case that the maneuvers are probably better than the mutations, but the Mutations are also the only way you're unlocking mass drone production, regeneration of HP and/or energy, and a bunch of other utilities.
There is no doubt that maneuvers trump the mutations. Regen of hp/energy can be taken with Super Pilot multiclassing and some maneuvers heal, prevent damage altogether or brings back from the dead when all else fails. They can be useful, no doubts about that, but it cannot compare to a bunch of separate entities with their own actions nova-ing their maneuvers together with your stats. Mass drone production can be a fun gimmick to work on but its what I call 'unreliable power' since you have no control over it. It is as use-ful/less as the GM wants it to be.
The point I'm making here is merely that the infiltrator queen is easier to optimize than the adaptive queen by far. Getting something else to tank for it besides one of its drones isn't that complicated and when you can outnumber your enemies by yourself and burst everything with your army, you don't have to fight head-on yourself.
Easier? I honestly doubt it, because you have to make many more choices. More potential for raw abuse if you invest time on it? You're probably right, so now the drones can only learn maneuvers/stances of a lower level than the queen's own.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2014, 11:28:34 AM »
Question: Spore Pods don't use ammo or energy. Is this infinite ammo? :O

I also think it might be useful to add a 'guard' or 'stay put' Instinct, so that you don't have to be with your Drones to get them to stay in one place. If I don't want to take them with me--or want to have spares because of the OHKO thing rather than spending hours replacing every drone--it would help to not have them immediately start eating everything that comes near them or go off hunting for things.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 12:13:02 PM by Raineh Daze »
I hate picking signatures.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 01:09:34 PM »
Added Guardian Instinct and energy cost for the Stacheldraht W├╝rger.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9270
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2014, 01:18:07 PM »
Oh good, I can now be an Adaptive Queen and take advantage of the 'no need to use Queen's Will on the Drone you control' thing without having to stay in the 'extra' drone at all times or the party gets attacked. :lmao
I hate picking signatures.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2014, 06:36:58 AM »
Added Nurturing Queen classification, bard spell progression with a bunch of druid spells.

Offline siflux

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Consummate Lurker
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2018, 01:01:56 PM »
I'm building a multi-class Einst Queen, and I'm trying to understand how Adaptive Queen's Mutations work in that context. My understanding of how Mutations work for those that scale by Bioframe Level, such as It Will Not Die, is that only your Bioframe Level applies towards scaling, with one exception: if you multi-class Real Robot, your primary unit adds Real Robot level to determine how effective the Mutation is (drones receiving no such bonus, even if they're also real robots). Is this correct? If so, it's better for Super Robot and Ship Captain pilots to take Mutations that don't scale by Bioframe Level, like Onslaught. Thank you in advance for the feedback.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2018, 10:25:53 PM »
Ah, multiclass real drones were also supposed to gain the bonus, fixed. Otherwise correct.

Offline ZaneShadow

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2018, 03:32:36 AM »
Do Einst Queen/Super Pilots still obtain a Super Robot, do they still learn the Maneuvers/Stances themselves, how much Arsenal Space do the Drones receive, aaand do the Drones gain any Hardpoints?

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2018, 06:33:08 AM »
No separate Super Robot, the Einst Queen learns the maneuvers/stances herself too, clarified that drones get basic super robot arsenal space and hardpoint (the multiclass rules hadn't been updated for the hardpoint update, yay...).

Offline ZaneShadow

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2018, 11:05:03 AM »
Thanks for the clarifications, friend.

Offline ZaneShadow

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2018, 12:01:45 PM »
Apologies, but I have a few other questions as well. Does a Super Pilot/Einst Queen gain her own Energy Pool to use the Maneuvers/Stances with, or are they exclusively for use with her Drones/Mecha, and for anything that specifcally effects a Mecha, can the Einst Queen count herself as both the Mecha and the Pilot (her Drones doing the same,) or does anything that works as such count the Einst Queen as the Pilot, and her Drones as the Mecha(s)?

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2018, 12:37:31 AM »
Depends on the Classification. An Infiltrator Queen gets her own energy pool and can benefit from mecha-specific effects while pushing herself to act on mecha scale, while a Adaptative Queen can "pilot" her drones, counting them as the mecha and herself as the pilot. The drones would count themselves as the pilots if they're not being "piloted" by an Adaptative Queen.

Nurturing Queen wouldn't synergize so well, maybe I should think of some multiclass benefits for her.

Also out of curiosity, are you part of Ckirk/Fzzr's gaming group?

Offline ZaneShadow

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2018, 01:48:49 AM »
No, I'm part of a different group. Nurturing Queen not synergizing well is unfortunate, since that's what I'm playing.  :tongue

Edit: Nurturing Queen can deploy Funnels from herself, instead of a Mecha, right? They seem designed to work with Mecha more than on that scale, though.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 01:55:08 AM by ZaneShadow »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2018, 02:28:37 AM »
Yay, more groups playing SRW d20! :D

Yes, Nurturing Queen can deploy funnels from herself. By "They seem designed to work with Mecha more than on that scale", I assume you mean the funnel feat mentions to use one's mecha stats, right? Updated the Nurturing Queen to cover that option. Also buffed her to also be able to "pilot" her drones like an Adaptative Queen, although she needs to sacrifice bioweapons to channel her spells then.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 02:30:09 AM by oslecamo »

Offline ZaneShadow

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Einst Queen
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2018, 02:55:06 AM »
Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks for all the clarifications and stuff!