Author Topic: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)  (Read 13248 times)

Offline nijineko

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 05:20:36 PM »
I could make proper tables for you if you'd like.

I'd go for it, it'd be handy to be able to copy/paste the bbcode.
http://crystalballsoft.com/cblite.html  The best dice roller on the planet, bar none. Read the FAQ to see why.

https://www.box.com/s/du6s5uysdwfony9dfd3p  The Official Complete Psionic Errata.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dbmkg8efcbn4eak/AABSjyTbZIEDdIWm0I_uVFkpa?dl=0 The Archive.

Offline Surreal

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2017, 06:07:31 PM »
Haha, I totally forgot about the joke I snuck into wildshape...  :lmao

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2017, 06:37:00 PM »
Here are the beginnings of a table.  Obviously the header color can be changed.  Is it worth doing the rest as a table given this sample?





   Alter Self    Polymorph    Shapechange
Type Change    No, and no templates    Yes (Self, Abb, Ani, Dra, Fey, Gia, Hum, MB, MH, Ooz, Pla, Ver) & Sub, NO Incor. or Gas.    All types, also Incorporeal or Gaseous
HD Limit    Max: CL or 5 HD    Max: Self, CL, or 15 HD    Max: CL or 25 HD
Size Limit    Within one size category    Within one size category, no smaller than fine    Fine to collossal
Ability Scores    Unchanged    Change physical    Change physical
HD/BAB/Saves    Unchanged    Base unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchanged    Base unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchanged
Original SU and SLAs    Retain all except those requiring a specific body part    Retain all except those requiring a specific body partl    Lose SU, retain SLAs

Offline Nifft

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2017, 08:37:51 PM »
Here are the beginnings of a table.  Obviously the header color can be changed.  Is it worth doing the rest as a table given this sample?





   Alter Self    Polymorph    Shapechange
Type Change    No, and no templates    Yes (Self, Abb, Ani, Dra, Fey, Gia, Hum, MB, MH, Ooz, Pla, Ver) & Sub, NO Incor. or Gas.    All types, also Incorporeal or Gaseous
HD Limit    Max: CL or 5 HD    Max: Self, CL, or 15 HD    Max: CL or 25 HD
Size Limit    Within one size category    Within one size category, no smaller than fine    Fine to collossal
Ability Scores    Unchanged    Change physical    Change physical
HD/BAB/Saves    Unchanged    Base unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchanged    Base unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchanged
Original SU and SLAs    Retain all except those requiring a specific body part    Retain all except those requiring a specific body partl    Lose SU, retain SLAs

That looks really nice.

 :thumb

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2017, 10:05:29 PM »
That looks really nice.
The really odd spacing is from using multiple spaces and I didn't see any extra spaces in Nifft's code (nice improvement!) but the table still positioned three line breaks lower. The fix was easy, ran a replace on all the extra spaces and wiped over eighty of them.

Quote
Alter SelfPolymorphShapechange
Type ChangeNo, and no templatesYes (Self, Abb, Ani, Dra, Fey, Gia, Hum, MB, MH, Ooz, Pla, Ver) & Sub, NO Incor. or Gas.All types, also Incorporeal or Gaseous
HD LimitMax: CL or 5 HDMax: Self, CL, or 15 HDMax: CL or 25 HD
Size LimitWithin one size categoryWithin one size category, no smaller than fineFine to collossal
Ability ScoresUnchangedChange physicalChange physical
HD/BAB/SavesUnchangedBase unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchangedBase unchanged but saves change due to stats; HP is unchanged
Original SU and SLAsRetain all except those requiring a specific body partRetain all except those requiring a specific body partlLose SU, retain SLAs
Table2 is so fickled.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2017, 11:50:37 PM »
My extra spaces are on purpose, I HATE columns where the text runs into each other.  Which your table has and Nifft's does not.

If I'm making tables, the extra spaces are there.  Always.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 05:03:30 AM »
My extra spaces are on purpose, I HATE columns where the text runs into each other.  Which your table has and Nifft's does not.
Of course my code runs together, it's what the forums want to display it without extra plank spaces or uneven wrapped text.  :eh
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:06:51 AM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 10:13:47 AM »
My extra spaces are on purpose, I HATE columns where the text runs into each other.  Which your table has and Nifft's does not.
Of course my code runs together, it's what the forums want to display it without extra plank spaces or uneven wrapped text.  :eh

We went over this on the temporary boards.  On any computer I use the extra blank spaces look just fine.  I also don't see an issue with uneven wrapped text, it looks like paragraph indentation.

Offline Nifft

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 11:29:12 AM »
and I didn't see any extra spaces in Nifft's code (nice improvement!)
Which your table has and Nifft's does not.

Full disclosure: all I did was quote the table.

Any improvement is 100% accidental.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2017, 01:02:46 PM »
Full disclosure: all I did was quote the table.
Yeah at some point I got confused on the names.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 05:28:32 PM »
and I didn't see any extra spaces in Nifft's code (nice improvement!)
Which your table has and Nifft's does not.

Full disclosure: all I did was quote the table.

Any improvement is 100% accidental.

 :lmao

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2018, 11:30:31 PM »
If someone wants to through up a google docs for me, I'll dump my version of this that mostly balances these whoppingly imbalanced spells. Shapechange, of course is still OP, which is only a problem if you play with 9th level spells.

I also put mine in delta-format so you can see what you 'gain' by going up to the next most powerful abilitiy.

Offline Surreal

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Re: Polymorph, Wild Shape, and Shapechange, Oh My! (comparison charts)
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2018, 01:11:09 AM »
Hey guys, yet another long time no see.

So I was sorting through some old hard drives and wonder-of-wonders I actually found my old polymorph spreadsheet! I've uploaded to google sheets here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oRFfvHAYSBQ5sy39mmhqQOoRlGIYtWjVfmk3EPu0GqU