Author Topic: Spellsong Index & General Discussion  (Read 18083 times)

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2016, 06:59:03 PM »
Oh I guess I can get around to it.  :P

Good man :clap

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2017, 06:12:46 PM »
Chanwyr Composer

"Text"
– Am Shaegar, Chanwyr Composer


Text

Becoming a Chanwyr Composer
Text

Table 1: The Chanwyr Composer
Hit Die: d6

Code: [Select]
Level  BAB    Ref   Fort  Will   Special Abilities                               
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
  1    +0     +2    +0    +2     Create Masterpiece, Artist's Touch
  2    +1     +3    +0    +3     Ongoing Performance, Racial Feat
  3    +2     +3    +1    +3     Enduring Anthem, Resume Song                   

Class skills (8 + Int modifier per level): Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spellsong (Cha), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)

Requirements:
Feats: Talent Surge or Focus on the Challenge, Lingering Performance
Skills: Craft 6, Diplomacy 6.
Race: Chanwyr
             
Class Features
Text
  • Create Masterpiece (Ex): A Chanwyr Composer dedicates her life to the creation of spellsong imbued masterpieces, and she is extremely skilled at such. Crafting a masterpiece takes half the time and only 75% of the normal cost.
  • Artist's Touch (Ex): When using a masterpiece she has created, a composer has a 50% chance of not expending a charge or use per day.
  • Ongoing Performance (Ex): A Chanwyr Composer can maintain a spellsong she has created through using a masterpiece. She otherwise obeys all the normal rules for maintaining s spellsong.
  • Racial Feat: The Chanwyr Composer gains whichever Racial feat she did not use to enter the class.
  • Enduring Anthem (Ex): When using a masterpiece she has created, the spellsong is affected by the Chanwyr Composer's lingering performance feat.
  • Resume Song (Ex): A Chanwyr Composer can resume maintaining any spellsong during the two rounds granted by lingering performance. She otherwise obeys all the normal rules for maintaining s spellsong.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2017, 06:21:58 PM »
Seems like a pretty standard crafting prestige class.  It has Listen so I'd give it Spot as well.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2017, 06:12:16 PM »
Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4511
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2017, 06:15:52 PM »
Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

Congratulations on the big 10k!

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2017, 06:20:20 PM »
Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

Congratulations on the big 10k!

Holy crap!  I'd have screenshotted it if I had noticed instead of shotgunning off a bunch of posts.

However, I'm the number 4 top poster on the board, and number 10 for time.  I'm not sure what that says about me.

Offline sirpercival

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10855
  • you can't escape the miles
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2017, 06:40:17 PM »
Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

Congratulations on the big 10k!

Holy crap!  I'd have screenshotted it if I had noticed instead of shotgunning off a bunch of posts.

However, I'm the number 4 top poster on the board, and number 10 for time.  I'm not sure what that says about me.
It says that you're an amazing, wonderful person.   0:)
I am the assassin of productivity

(member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2017, 09:24:56 PM »
Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

Congratulations on the big 10k!

Holy crap!  I'd have screenshotted it if I had noticed instead of shotgunning off a bunch of posts.

However, I'm the number 4 top poster on the board, and number 10 for time.  I'm not sure what that says about me.

Congrats, spambot :D

Can luck rerolls be used to activate the lucky class feature?

As written, no. I'll have a think about it.

More importantly, the Spellsinger is flawed in a few fundamental ways.
  • The spellsinger knows every spellsong as soon as she gets to a given level.
  • Certain spellsongs, including low level ones, are just plain broken, in large part because of the next point.
  • The spellsinger can double or triple or quadruple up on the action economy, with little appreciable cost.
  • Maintaining a spellsong is a diceless action
  • The effect multiplier scales too fast in some areas (DC, Targets)

Bluntly, I need to have a rethink.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2017, 09:59:33 PM »
Sounds like I should not play a Spellsinger, yes?

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2017, 07:53:40 AM »
Thinking about it this morning, there are two simple ways to limit the variability of the Spellsong check:

Change Spellsong to a special check, not a skill check.
Or
Place a cap on effect modifier equal to half the number of ranks in Spellsong (round down).

For Spellsong knowledge:
Learn one Spellsong per rank invested. Which ones you can pick are limited as currently.

Spellsong balance:
Go through and limit the power of certain Spellsongs, broaden the scope a little as well.

Maintaining:
Make maintaining a Spellsong a roll with a +5 bonus, rather than something free.

Action economy:
Leave alone for now, and keep an eye on the math.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2017, 10:27:47 AM »
Spellsong's are one of your casting systems that I have no real experience with so I'm not sure what would be best.  I do know that I'm not a fan of being able to use your main class feature of the spellsinger, although I do realize that it's a skill that anyone could take (although turning it into a special check would change that).

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »
You're not a fan of being able to use the main ability?

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2017, 01:55:26 PM »
You're not a fan of being able to use the main ability?

Wow, that's a typo error.

I'm not a fan of NOT being able to use your main class feature.  If you roll less than DC20 you just wasted your turn.  This is mostly a concern at levels 1-2.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2017, 01:56:37 PM »
This is true... but if you cast a spell that has a save, and the target beats the save, you just wasted your turn.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2017, 02:04:21 PM »
This is true... but if you cast a spell that has a save, and the target beats the save, you just wasted your turn.

True but it's a different mentality.  Just like if you miss an attack you "wasted" your turn.  You might have been ineffective, but you didn't fail you were stopped by your enemy.

Regardless, if you're ever going to want Spellsinger to be compatible with non-Arhosa material I think that making it a special check.  Something like the check listed in Bending Level here.  Actually, looking deeper I'm seeing some system similarities at the basic level.  The system isn't perfect (I still hate being able to fail at you own basic stuff before taking saving throws and armor class into account) but it might spark some ideas for you as to how to rewrite Spellsong.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2017, 02:52:17 PM »
Really, it's the same as an attack - both are just d20 rolls to see if you hit your target. But I'll leave this one alone for the moment.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2017, 03:06:10 PM »
Really, it's the same as an attack - both are just d20 rolls to see if you hit your target. But I'll leave this one alone for the moment.

It's like an attack with a saving throw, two chances to fail for the same action.  That's where my issue is.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2017, 03:08:55 PM »
There's no saving throw for most spellsong.

The math I was using for Spellsongs, btw, is here. Ignore the third tab, that was obviously for a different project.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 03:11:31 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13393
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2017, 03:25:45 PM »
I assumed that save for half damage applied to most of them.  I didn't realize that no save listed meant no save at all, not even for damage.  I couldn't find that specified anywhere.


I don't have access to that document, but it might be my work firewall.

Offline Stratovarius

  • Forum Host
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7679
  • Arhosan Emperor
    • View Profile
Re: Spellsong Index & General Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2017, 03:41:34 PM »
Yup, no save is no save at all. It's a bit like an elemental archer in some ways.

Should be available, it's a public sharing link.