Author Topic: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!  (Read 49216 times)

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2016, 11:42:07 PM »
Am I the only person who didn't know that you can have multiple spells on one scroll?

Looks like it caps out at 6, at least for random scrolls.

Isn't that a TERRIBLE idea considering scrolls are consumed on use? As random loot that's fine, because a single scroll could be a source of multiple spells added to the wizard's spellbook, but seriously, who would intentionally put all their spells on a one use device?
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Offline ketaro

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2016, 11:52:01 PM »
Am I the only person who didn't know that you can have multiple spells on one scroll?

Looks like it caps out at 6, at least for random scrolls.

Isn't that a TERRIBLE idea considering scrolls are consumed on use? As random loot that's fine, because a single scroll could be a source of multiple spells added to the wizard's spellbook, but seriously, who would intentionally put all their spells on a one use device?

The speedreader that can cast 6 fireballs in one round ;)

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2016, 12:20:30 AM »
Am I the only person who didn't know that you can have multiple spells on one scroll?

Looks like it caps out at 6, at least for random scrolls.

Isn't that a TERRIBLE idea considering scrolls are consumed on use? As random loot that's fine, because a single scroll could be a source of multiple spells added to the wizard's spellbook, but seriously, who would intentionally put all their spells on a one use device?

Actually, just the spell you used is consumed. The others are just fine.
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2016, 12:35:12 AM »
Am I the only person who didn't know that you can have multiple spells on one scroll?

Looks like it caps out at 6, at least for random scrolls.

Isn't that a TERRIBLE idea considering scrolls are consumed on use? As random loot that's fine, because a single scroll could be a source of multiple spells added to the wizard's spellbook, but seriously, who would intentionally put all their spells on a one use device?

Actually, just the spell you used is consumed. The others are just fine.

Ooooooooh...I like this. Unfortunately Schemas don't get the same treatment because they explicitly say a single spell :-(
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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2016, 12:09:23 PM »
Ooooooooh...I like this. Unfortunately Schemas don't get the same treatment because they explicitly say a single spell :-(
Yeah but it doesn't really matter. You're not going to want to load a single item with a bunch of Spells anyway, it just makes it a bigger target to be stolen/sundered/etc.

Sort of like any Scroll you will buy is typically best to keep separate, combining them can save you a Move Action if you're going for combinations like a CC effect to damage but if Scrolls are your primary option in combat you've got some problems going for you. Mostly combined scrolls is just a process for randomly generated loot to have an increased chance to contain the Spells a Wizard would like or a Sorcerer would need for versatility.
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Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2016, 10:06:40 AM »
Unsure if it has ever been accounted for, but Dragon #313 has lycanthropes as a race-class hybrid system, but more uniquely a set of feats and quasi-traits, one of which has mechanical bonuses and penalties, I have never seen mentioned:

Racial Traits:
Racial Traits: As base creature.
+2 Wisdom
Special Qualities: Low Light Vision
Favored Class: Becomes your Lycanthrope Heritage.
Size: As base creature (in humanoid form). Otherwise, see Lycanthropic Heritage (in hybrid form).

Notes: Amusingly from the way this reads, you're not explicitly obligated to take levels in your lycanthropic heritage, it is just that you can do so. Only applicable to humanoids and giants, but a free +0 LA "not-template" with 0 RHD doesn't seem bad at all and even a single level dip in your race-class isn't horrible for some martial characters.

Class Traits:
Notes: In regard to having your feats forcefully replaced, it explicitly says you can request to take your feats normally. On another positive and random note, they're explicitly giving you the way to calculate effectively any lycanthrope's pseudo-Savage Progression, using the formula of "3 (or 2 for Afflicted) + Animal Hit Dice" of levels you can take. It words it in a manner that suggests it isn't limited to just these animals either, only instead explicitly citing the Monster Manual in this submission.

Feats:
Crushing Hug
Gore Toss
Hamstring Attack
Hibernate
Moonwarrior
Pack Feint
Pack Tactics
Quick Change
Spirit of the Beast
Sprinter

Notes: Crushing Hug is one of the real winners for any grapple based build, as doubling your Strength to damage is a worthwhile addition. Pack Feint isn't horrific either if you're dedicated to feinting and or have other classes (namely rogues or those with Iaijutsu Focus) about, as they automatically profit from your action.

Character Traits:
Defiant Roar (Weretiger)

Notes: Simple, but you gain a +1 bonus to Intimidate checks, and those familiar with weretigers get a +3 bonus to Sense Motive checks made against you. You tell me how often you run into those readily familiar with weretigers.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 10:08:35 AM by Argent Fatalis »

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2016, 11:45:34 PM »
The Atavist is... interesting. If it worked with a proper Psionic class or advanced Psionics, it would be pretty great.

Maybe I'm biased - Mindlink is such great utility that it isn't even funny.
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Offline deadkitten

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2016, 02:38:15 AM »
Quote
Knowledge Is Power (Ex): At each level, you gain a spellcasting enhancement based on your Knowledge skills. Each time you gain this feature, choose one of the following abilities for which you meet the skill-based prerequisites. Although you can choose some of these abilities multiple times (as indicated in the descriptions), you may not select the same one twice in a row, and the minimum required skill rank increases by 2 for each subsequent selection of the same ability.

Is it me or does the Paragnostic Apostle's Knowledge is Power class feature seem ripe for Bloodline fun?

Then again, I am not even gonna be remotely upset if I am  wrong, I won't even pretend to have any expertise in the intricacies of bloodlines.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2016, 04:57:33 PM »
The Atavist is... interesting. If it worked with a proper Psionic class or advanced Psionics, it would be pretty great.

Maybe I'm biased - Mindlink is such great utility that it isn't even funny.

hmm ... so lets say it works with Soulbow
"A mind arrow can be charged with a psychic strike as if it were a mind blade."
Then it should be possible to use the standard
Bloodlines, LegacyChamp, UncannyTrickster cheese,
to build both the Soulknife and Soulbow stuff.
Monk Tash stuffed on it too, obviously.

If it worked on the PsyWar Soulknife-y acf
and it advanced +1 ML it would be niche
but kinda interesting to that niche.

Maybe some more possible things buried away ...  :-\
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Offline Satori

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2016, 08:20:38 PM »
The Atavist is... interesting. If it worked with a proper Psionic class or advanced Psionics, it would be pretty great.

Maybe I'm biased - Mindlink is such great utility that it isn't even funny.

DSP Elightened Monk and DSP Soulknife.

Thanks to wording changes, it advances your full mindblade, and advances Ki psionics so at least you're getting power points out of the deal.

Still kinda sucks, but eh.

Soulknife 2/Monk1/Marksman1/PsyWar2/Soulbow1/Atavist10/Ghostbreaker3

Mindblade as a 16th level DSP Soulknife (7th level blade), ML 11 for Ki psionics, ML 4 for Psywar to get hustle, ML 2 for Marksman for dissolving weapon.

free action summon mindarrows, Free action expend focus for standard action (atavist 10), spend standard action to buff, Hustle as swift action to gain move action, use move action to regain focus and activate "Wind Reader", full attack with mindarrows (use Rapid shot, and if you took Flowing Blade, also flurry of blows)

Repeat.  If you don't have anything else to do with that standard, manifest dissolving weapon on all your mindarrows for 1 pp.

4 pp expenditure per full attack, 1d8 + wis piercing, 4d6 Acid, +dex and wis to attack roll, reroll attack rolls and take best due to Lucky arrows trick.

Total one trick pony, but with mindfeeder on those arrows, your PP costs are very low.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2016, 01:47:42 PM »
So, um, I saw the Spellcarved Soldier PrC and it looks kinda bleh. However, 4 levels for 2 extra magic items slots (Rune of the Archmage -> wear an extra ring and wear magic robes over Warforged's composite plating) could be kinda nice in the right circumstances. It's the same level you get to use 2 runes at once, so you could also have crit immunity, or maybe a free Extend Spell and +5 dispel DC of a spell or infusion cast on you (you don't need to cast it yourself and you can affect one spell/infusion at a time), or perhaps a +2 bonus on saves vs. mind-affecting (one of these things seems less useful than the others).

Maybe something to cap off a gishy Artificer build? 16 levels is enough for 6th level infusions and the second-to-last bonus feat (say, Extra Rings for a total of 5 rings at once, although I'm not sure the wording lets them stack). Rune of the Archmage even lets your Spellcarved Soldier levels count for caster level.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 01:51:26 PM by Garryl »

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2016, 03:07:57 PM »
(one of these things seems less useful than the others).

WotC has always seemed to overvalue save bonuses, especially vs. a specific source.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2016, 03:51:07 PM »
Maybe something to cap off a gishy Artificer build? 16 levels is enough for 6th level infusions and the second-to-last bonus feat (say, Extra Rings for a total of 5 rings at once, although I'm not sure the wording lets them stack). Rune of the Archmage even lets your Spellcarved Soldier levels count for caster level.

Theoretically 15 is the level that matters for Artificers, because they can craft as 17th level spell casters, meaning 9th level spells.  The last infusion I remember really mattering is 3rd level, because it negates metamagic costs on spell trigger items (Metamagic Item, iirc).  That is of course all dependent on getting time to craft high level stuff.
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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2016, 12:41:20 AM »
Theoretically 15 is the level that matters for Artificers, because they can craft as 17th level spell casters, meaning 9th level spells.
Well, it's Arty+2 (and that's Arty+2 not Arty's cl+2, PrCs are worthless) for meeting Item Prerequisites. Example text implies this should apply to the minimum caster level needed to actually cast a spell which isn't quite the same thing and example text has a history of being wrong. It's kind of this side of needing a houserule patch to work.

And while crafting your own items offers no mechanical advantage, WBL doesn't care and MiC says you can find what you want anyway, the Arty creates the most expensive magical items in the game. It's because the text states that costs are always determined using the item's minimum caster level or the artificer's actual level (which ever is higher). Like a 15th level Arty makes a Wand of Lesser Vigor at CL15 with no choice to go lower, so his Wand costs 11250 or 9gp per HP (vs 750gp or 1.3gp/hp). I'd never really ever take an Arty past level 8, assuming you won't just buy a Minor Schema of Item Alteration seeing how that Infusion's primary benefit requires another Spellcaster's Spell Choice. Consider something like Ur-Priest to Contemplative after that.

Through you're better off making a Lawful Nuetral Cleric of Mystra, balancing your "good" actions with ritual sacrifice. Free Metamagic cost in her temples, free XP for crafting, access to Anyspell, the AMF ignoring Initiate Feat, and a better class base to work with (d8 vs d6, good fort vs bad fort, turn undead vs homunculus, bonus domains vs very limited bonus feats). But I suppose that is Faerun vs Eberron, through sacrifice & the Spell Domain applies in any setting.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 12:43:42 AM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline ketaro

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2016, 04:34:13 AM »
Could you avoid that forced CL = to Artificer level by having some one else cast the spells for you during item creation? (Like, say, a cohort?)

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2016, 01:21:36 PM »
Could you avoid that forced CL = to Artificer level by having some one else cast the spells for you during item creation? (Like, say, a cohort?)
You'd think it would, but the text is literally "Costs are always determined using the item's minimum caster level or the artificer's actual level (if it is higher)." which reads off like it'd  trump that. Like I said, it's in need of some minor fixes.

I actually have a theory that it was originally meant to be a common NPC Class to explain all the little trinkets in Eberron that went full bloom to a PC cost in the late stages of development and it just never got properly proof read and edited. Like as the text flat out states, the Artificer is not a Spellcaster. It has no Spellcasting, Infusions are not Spells, he substitutes UMD to the Spell Requirement of item creation and has a patched in effective CL for item Prerequisites. So, how does it meet the Requirement of having a Caster Level for say Craft Wondrous Item without some kind of patchwork from intent? And don't get me wrong I hold the intent higher than anything else but seriously you didn't get a Class & PrC entry for it fixing the text issues until fifteenth months later when Magic of Eberron came out. Someone dropped the ball pretty freaking hard right there.
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Offline bobtheapple

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2016, 06:46:00 PM »
Actually, Artificers have a caster level just fine. 
(click to show/hide)

To contribute to the topic, other than that bleh find in the paragraph above, this is hard... Really, even Bane of Infidels? ...Unfinished Savage Progression Vampire into Vampire Lord... no, PBMC got that... hrmm... Okay, here is a weird situational item a player pulled out on me a while ago:

Illithid Mindscorch, a poison from DotU, has the following rules text: "Illithids immediately try to devour the brains of anyone they catch with this substance."  By RAW this item works as an Illithid detector when displayed openly, as any Illithid that sees it will instantly drop everything they are doing, drop all illusions and disguises, and rather than perform any action in their better judgement will attempt to melee the individual to extract their brain.  Essentially, it turns reasonably powerful psionicists and spellcasters into Romero zombies with no save.  Hang a vial (clearly labeled, of course) of it around the neck of Billy the Torchbearer and you even get a free turn on the suckers with no risk to the party as they busy themselves ripping his skull open.  It'll run you 1000gp, sure, but in a mindflayer heavy campaign it will easily save your life, and its not even consumed (unless Billy drinks it by mistake.)

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2016, 11:11:18 PM »
Actually, Artificers have a caster level just fine.
Most of your post just boils down to how little you understand the differences in CL and spellcaster level and how "caster level" gets used to reference either of those and I find my self not really caring to explain it to you, mostly because WotC already admitted there was a problem and published an update that doesn't ambiguously use the term and gives the Artificer an effective spellcaster level. So I don't know why you are trying to commit a huge affirming the consequent fallacy by saying if every spellcaster has a CL then having an Infusion-CL must mean they are a spellcaster.

What I do know is my main point was the Artificer is very poorly written and in between your special pleading to avoid talking about things in detail you pointed out how the Artificer Bonus Feat requirements and assumed that the lack of text proves you right. Well it doesn't and the desired text on your part is missing because it's very poorly written so we're back full circle about how crappy the entries are and that's a lot of text to simply agree to that.
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Offline bobtheapple

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2016, 07:31:12 AM »
(click to show/hide)
I realized after writing this that we are debating two entirely different things, you merely pointing out that in the strictest RAW you find the artificer class confusingly worded, which is not really something I can debate.  I am debating that whether or not the RAW seems confusing, it is mechanically sound as written, and conforms nicely to the intended use of the class.  I'll leave this here anyway.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 07:53:51 AM by bobtheapple »

Offline Thurbane

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Re: Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2016, 07:48:06 AM »
Fairly sure that this would have been covered before, but the Poison Ring (Dragon Compendium p.115) is simple light weapon. The obvious intention was for it to be a poison delivery method. However, as far as I can tell, it has the "side effect" of being a weapon that always uses a touch attack roll to deal damage. The wording is a bit weird as to how exactly it is used, but I'd say there's a good case for my reading. I think the RAI was that you can't use it to deliver poison/touch attack if anyone spots that it isn't just a normal ring.

I can imagine that being pretty useful for Sneak Attacks and similar...