Author Topic: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage  (Read 8144 times)

Offline Unbeliever

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finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« on: May 01, 2016, 05:18:23 PM »
I'm working on an elven Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage for an upcoming game, with a bit of a lithomancer/stone magic motif. 

The thing I can't figure out is what to add onto it after SCM.  We'll be capping the "reality" of the illusions at 100%, so there's not a huge incentive to go into the Shadowcrafter, at least not for more than a couple of levels.  And, beyond that nothing has jumped out at me.

It doesn't need to be particularly powerful -- the SCM is already so badass that it doesn't need much help.  Although obviously I wouldn't want to lose much spellcasting.  Even something with a solid chasis would work fine.  Or, is there something that makes divine casters better at buffing?  He's also got an ancient wise person vibe, going, so something that plays into knowledge and Cloistered Cleric would work, too. 

Thanks in advance.

Offline Chemus

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016, 09:04:12 PM »
Earth dreamer (same book) eventually gets Earth Glide, and you might already be taking earth sense, due to earth spell...
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 10:23:34 AM »
Cool.  I'll take a look.  Any other ideas spring to mind.

I'll admit that I'm not great when it comes to caster clerics.  Most of the cleric PrCs I know are of the punch them to death Ruby Knight variety. 

EDIT:  Divine Oracle or Seeker of the Misty Isle might not be too bad.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:25:46 AM by Unbeliever »

Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2016, 11:50:14 PM »
How are you advancing cleric with Shadowcraft Mage? The class specifies arcane only.

In any case, if you've got some kind of arcane/divine theme going already, maybe check out Dweomerkeeper from the Complete Divine web enhancement. Metamagic reducers at level 10, (doesn't play nice with Heighten, and has a minimum of 1, but you decide the order you apply your bonuses so just apply the class ability first), Spell Mantle to allow spontaneous conversion of cleric spells to any spell on your list, and you get to cast spells as Supernatural Abilties up to 4 times per day.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 12:13:39 AM »
How are you advancing cleric with Shadowcraft Mage? The class specifies arcane only.
No it doesn't.
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Offline Chemus

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 12:14:07 AM »
pxy is a ninja
How are you advancing cleric with Shadowcraft Mage? The class specifies arcane only.

Sorry, but that's incorrect.
(click to show/hide)

Edited for correct attribution (RoS rather than CD)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 02:15:05 AM by Chemus »
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Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 06:18:34 PM »
Oh, my mistake. I could have sworn the text said "arcane spellcasting class to which the character belonged".

But now I have another question:

What level are you entering Shadowcraft Mage if the class requires an illusion spell of 4th level or higher? The only spell I could find that counts is Doomtide (SpC 70) and that's Cleric 5.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2016, 10:48:26 AM »
Dark Way is a 2nd level Cleric spell in the Spell Compendium that you can Heighten.  Also, we are using a non-trivial number of house rules, that I didn't bother to post in the OP b/c it wasn't particularly relevant.  I haven't decided what level I'm going to enter SCM at, but let's say it's 3rd b/c shenanigans, which leaves my back 10 levels pretty undecided.  Hence the thread. 

Offline nijineko

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2016, 05:42:28 PM »
The symbol/glyph specialist from complete divine (iirc)would be interesting.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2016, 05:21:28 AM »
The symbol/glyph specialist from complete divine (iirc)would be interesting.
You mean Geometer from Complete Arcane?  I'll take a look at it (and Dweomerkeeper, thanks!), two PrCs I know like nothing about which is promising.  Geometer is technically arcane only, but that's the kind of thing I'm pretty sure we could fudge unless there's some really good reason not to.

Offline Chemus

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2016, 11:58:19 AM »
I'm gonna pimp my suggestion once more. You said lithomancer (rock mage). The Earth Dreamer is 5 levels, full casting, good fort and will, and gets the ability to see through, and then pass through, earth and stone. Plus, he automatically is friendlier w/ Earth subtypes, and gets a non-falsifiable Divination regarding anything within 50 mi of a mountain, possibly also anything underground, with a loose reading.

This is kinda close to Scry N Die, without using consumable resources. Granted, you need standard actions to use the abilities, and the duration for each is Con based (Elves...). Additionally, you'd need some way to take creatures w/ you in order to get party members through the walls/floors too. Great for sneaking and spying though, which could tie in with the ScM's hide bonuses. Wall of stone is no barrier to you, but is to enemies, etc. Plus, CS's Mobile Spell-Casting makes you able to exit an earth or stone wall/floor/ceiling, cast, then re-enter after casting.

Have fun :)
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2016, 04:11:39 PM »
Yeah that does sound like all kinds of fun. I remember looking at that combo once upon a time (SCM + Earth Dreamer) but never got around to using it.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2016, 01:16:41 PM »
Pimp away!  That's part of why I love posting here.  I'm looking at Earth Dreamer again, and the powers are flavorful.  But, am I crazy?  How often can I actually use them? 

Earth Dream sense once a day, which is fine for some divination type of stuff.  But, the other ones refer to "each use" and then don't limit it per day.  Is it at will but with an action limiter? 

I think the powers are kind of neat, although the ranges on them are sort of shitty.  Tremorsense at 10 ft. is not super exciting, and the Earth Sight seems an appallingly short range.  But, honestly, I could probably con my DM into upping those. 

Offline Chemus

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2016, 12:25:52 AM »
Yes, the best powers, see through walls earth & stone, and walk through most dungeons completely, are at will, duration of 3+ con rds, and a standard action to activate. 30' range isn't anything to sneeze at, IMO, and enemies shouldn't be able to detect you back, as they'll often have no line-of-sight or effect. Regarding Earth Glide, your movement rate is your only limitation.

Almost everything in 'standard' D&D is made largely from either earth or stone. Just travel underground like an Earth Elemental. Just watch out for bulettes. They'll try to get you to buy Insurance.

You just don't have to deal with doors, or even stairs, if you don't want to. Plus, you should get a free +2 Circumstance bonus to listen checks while inside a solid object, just like an incorporeal critter, since you're still within a solid object, which conducts sound better. With Mobile Spell-Casting Feat (Req's 8 Concentration. That's it; no other prereq's) you can come up through the floor (perhaps even down from the ceiling; ask your DM), cast, exit stage floor again. Scout like a earth elemental, but with almost perfect trap vision; stone doesn't impede your vision at all. You can see secret compartments, hidden caches, buried treasure, all sorts of mechanisms and otherwise hidden stuff. Get Darkvision somehow!!1!i.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 12:37:03 AM »
Wow, ok, consider me sold.  That means that stuff is essentially at will, except during encounters, and even then, it'll be there for most of the encounter (figure 5ish rounds).  Also, I'm a summoner, so there will be occasional rounds that I can waste without feeling too bad. 

Thanks so much.  I wouldn't have given that class a second look had you not mentioned it, and a lot of the optimization guides have the usual suspects, but I am already cooking with enough gas that I don't need to add fuel to it.

Offline Chemus

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 01:05:32 AM »
You're welcome. I've never gotten a chance to play an Earth Dreamer, but I was planning on adding it to ScM myself on one character (a gnome). Before the dark times. Before the Empire.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2016, 06:15:25 PM »
You'll also be able to summon from the safety of inside the floor/wall/etc...
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2016, 10:14:15 AM »
You'll also be able to summon from the safety of inside the floor/wall/etc...
Yeah, but if I do that I can't ride on the back of my summoned creature like Master Blaster.  Where are your priorities?!

Offline Keldar

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2016, 03:24:10 AM »
You can if you ride an earth elemental!  Or something more classy with earthglide.

Offline nijineko

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Re: finishing off Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2016, 05:26:19 PM »
Didn't earth glide and similar not function with worked stone? Or does that class override that?