Author Topic: Character Generation and Discussion  (Read 24173 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2017, 07:23:20 PM »
I see you've thought this through. Bravo.
The problem with this build (because of Bladecraft) is that I have a ton of directions I COULD go. I could optimize TWF, or shields, or AoOs, or tripping, or bull-rushing. I could also be a lot more aggressive with my vestige choices than I'm being. So I've had to make some choices about what to focus on, and I actually have decided to focus significantly less than I could.

You'll see all this when I actually post the build, but the choices I've made are:
- Use Binder as a vehicle for 4 relatively minor things: (1) making my feat selection a tiny, tiny bit easier; (2) up my Will save somewhat; (3) collect a few interesting but not essential abilities; (4) be a bit deadlier against undead (less so than I could be).
- Optimize shield use, and a tiny bit of AoOs, instead of any of the other optimizations I could do (no optimizations for tripping, bull-rushing {no Dungeoncrasher, for example}, or charging). Part of that is from Bladecraft making it easy to dabble in various strategies, and part of it is from me rarely getting a chance to use shields in an interesting way.
- Put effort into optimizing my Leadership & my army & cohort. That's a big draw for the game, and it'll make me a worse fighter but a more fun character.
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Offline Chemus

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2017, 09:53:49 PM »
And here I was with just umpty jillion followers, making flying-mounted chargers and flying monkey warlocks, with some crafters thrown in. I've even made a 'flying' (floating+sails and a cheap gust-of-wind knockoff) ship as my mobile stronghold and a lyre of building for making a stationary stronghold at need (With enough time).
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
My Homebrew

Offline ketaro

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2017, 02:16:40 AM »
Who's our necromancer!? I need a zombie dragon for my thematic! Preferably Huge! Willing to trade......things....


@Drammor:
That long lost Warlord Bonus feat I totally forgot about, can I Ferocious Tenacity? Considering your recent.....spoiler....This one comes off as too delicious. I figured it working in 3.5 as just sacrificing X number of rounds remaining in my current rage for -X amount of damage taken. The feat essentially losing power the longer my rage has been running~

With this I'd be 100% done. Compared to the 99% done I've been for weeks now and having forgotten there was another 1% missing  ;)

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2017, 02:20:53 AM »
Who's our necromancer!? I need a zombie dragon for my thematic! Preferably Huge! Willing to trade......things....


@Drammor:
That long lost Warlord Bonus feat I totally forgot about, can I Ferocious Tenacity? Considering your recent.....spoiler....This one comes off as too delicious. I figured it working in 3.5 as just sacrificing X number of rounds remaining in my current rage for -X amount of damage taken. The feat essentially losing power the longer my rage has been running~

With this I'd be 100% done. Compared to the 99% done I've been for weeks now and having forgotten there was another 1% missing  ;)

I have a necromancer cohort, but the cap on undead leadership is a 3rd level follower. If you can get me a huge dragon corpse, I will be happy to animate it, of course. I thought we had a primary necromancer somewhere too?

Offline ketaro

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2017, 02:24:20 AM »
@Drammor I need a Huge dragon corpse, pregame. What's that gonna run me?

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2017, 07:16:58 AM »
Drammor: Does the banner of the storms eye use a slot when held using a backpack frame? - I see no RAW that indicates it does, but it seems wise to check.

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2017, 07:34:56 AM »
@Drammor I need a Huge dragon corpse, pregame. What's that gonna run me?

It really depends on what you're going for. Assuming you're trying to save money and not hemorrhage it, you can find some Dragon type creatures in the discount bin, and you can snag some weird dragons with the lowest HD possible but end up paying for extra costs because these CRs are beyond you, or you can opt for the more common option of a young adult red dragon, which is going to cost you 2263 gold for the corpse, plus the fees of the mercenary dragon slayers you'd have to hire (since a young adult red dragon is way beyond your own CR).

Finding and hunting a dragon of the appropriate size is going to take a team of four level 12 mercenaries (one leader, one controller, one striker and one defender) two weeks of planning and action (1288 gold). Assuming only two spellcasters, you can count on there being four level 6 spells cast (2880 gold, plus some lower-level spells I wouldn't count). Fortunately, they have circumstances going in their favor (red dragons are arrogant and confident), so an ambush in an unfortified location is a viable strategy, meaning that the costs end there. Technically, there should be more, but it's getting into gritty details at that point. Anyway, the total comes up to 6,430 gold, which you could probably Diplomance down to 5,145, assuming you can pull a series of three DC 30 or higher checks off with a 55% or greater chance of success.

Drammor: Does the banner of the storms eye use a slot when held using a backpack frame? - I see no RAW that indicates it does, but it seems wise to check.

I can't see any evidence suggesting that it does.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2017, 07:44:56 AM »
Ah, it also occurs to me that such a creature might have too many HD to animate- give CL*2 as the limit of a single spell, I cannot raise anything greater than 16HD, unless the dread necromancer's undead mastery applies to that limit also, or we have a convenient area of a desecrate effect.

So, add a casting of desecrate to the costs above, I guess is the key point.

Edit: Drammor: Do maugs qualify for use of the elite array due to being ECL5? In general, do followers with level adjustment use their HD or their ECL to determine which stat array they use?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:10:23 AM by Archon »

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2017, 10:50:37 AM »
Followers with ECL 5 or more qualify for the elite array. Followers with ECL 4 or less do not.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2017, 03:12:06 PM »
@Drammor:
That long lost Warlord Bonus feat I totally forgot about, can I Ferocious Tenacity? Considering your recent.....spoiler....This one comes off as too delicious. I figured it working in 3.5 as just sacrificing X number of rounds remaining in my current rage for -X amount of damage taken. The feat essentially losing power the longer my rage has been running~

With this I'd be 100% done. Compared to the 99% done I've been for weeks now and having forgotten there was another 1% missing  ;)

Yes, Ferocious Tenacity is fine.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2017, 12:52:52 AM »
I have acquired the funds to purchase the corpse of a young adult red dragon!

Do we have a necromancer that can raise a 19 HD critter for me? I'll still offer you......things.....  :D

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2017, 12:56:42 AM »
The animation costs a bit from material costs.
150gp for a scroll of desercate
~500gp for the onyx.

But it can be done.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2017, 11:37:42 AM »
Hey Drammor, sorry it's taking me so long. I haven't even got to my cohort and army yet - picking Blade Techniques is a HUGE pain, trying to get everything to work together. Lol, I guess.

It's interesting - I'm getting the impression that Bladecraft is almost anti-optimization, since it's turning out to be almost impossible to specialize in anything. Hopefully I can figure out something that works, and I won't have to go back to the drawing board. :)
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2017, 07:47:51 PM »
I have acquired the funds to purchase the corpse of a young adult red dragon!

Do we have a necromancer that can raise a 19 HD critter for me? I'll still offer you......things.....  :D

Dragon Zombie Delivery Service is here with your order! :devil
Done and done.
Spell-like abilities for the win.

I just ran the numbers and this monstrosity will have 284 hit points.  :evillaugh

Sorry for not posting recently.
My characters and army should be ready and posted over the weekend.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:24:26 PM by Vladeshi »
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2017, 10:03:53 PM »
I have acquired the funds to purchase the corpse of a young adult red dragon!

Do we have a necromancer that can raise a 19 HD critter for me? I'll still offer you......things.....  :D

Dragon Zombie Delivery Service is here with your order! :devil
Done and done.
Spell-like abilities for the win.

I just ran the numbers and this monstrosity will have 284 hit points.  :evillaugh

Sorry for not posting recently.
My characters and army should be ready and posted over the weekend.

 :jumping
Really!? Oh my gosh I love you Vlad~
Is it just the Zombie template? Do you have extra bonuses on raised undead? So I could throw together the statblock myself. Unless you already did.  :D

Ted grants ye favors of your choosing.

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2017, 10:35:29 PM »
I have acquired the funds to purchase the corpse of a young adult red dragon!

Do we have a necromancer that can raise a 19 HD critter for me? I'll still offer you......things.....  :D

Dragon Zombie Delivery Service is here with your order! :devil
Done and done.
Spell-like abilities for the win.

I just ran the numbers and this monstrosity will have 284 hit points.  :evillaugh

Sorry for not posting recently.
My characters and army should be ready and posted over the weekend.

 :jumping
Really!? Oh my gosh I love you Vlad~
Is it just the Zombie template? Do you have extra bonuses on raised undead? So I could throw together the statblock myself. Unless you already did.  :D

Ted grants ye favors of your choosing.

Zombie Dragon template from Draconomicon, that means it keeps: breath weapon(at half damage), BAB(a normal 19 HD zombie would have a +9, but yours gets +19),
base saving throw bonuses(dragons get all good saves), and gains 2 bonus hit points per HD this way.

For being made by me personally it gains:
+6 hit points per HD
+4 str and dex
+4 to initiative
+10ft base land speed
20% more awesome than any other Zombie Dragon.

But i should probably make the statblock, because it will still be under my control, I will just tell it to follow your orders.

As for the favor....
How about your soul?
.... I think I will hold onto the favor for now. :plotting
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:43:44 PM by Vladeshi »
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2017, 11:53:32 PM »
Hey Drammor, sorry it's taking me so long. I haven't even got to my cohort and army yet - picking Blade Techniques is a HUGE pain, trying to get everything to work together. Lol, I guess.

It's interesting - I'm getting the impression that Bladecraft is almost anti-optimization, since it's turning out to be almost impossible to specialize in anything. Hopefully I can figure out something that works, and I won't have to go back to the drawing board. :)

Take your time. Only ketaro has their character sheets up right now, so everyone else is effectively in the same place you are. It also gives me more time to flesh out various facets of the campaign before we dive into it.


I have acquired the funds to purchase the corpse of a young adult red dragon!

Do we have a necromancer that can raise a 19 HD critter for me? I'll still offer you......things.....  :D

Dragon Zombie Delivery Service is here with your order! :devil
Done and done.
Spell-like abilities for the win.

I just ran the numbers and this monstrosity will have 284 hit points.  :evillaugh

Sorry for not posting recently.
My characters and army should be ready and posted over the weekend.

Pretty decent for a mascot.

[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2017, 01:15:39 PM »
Trying to finish my last cohort and this question suddenly hit me.
Since there is no alignment, what happens to alignment subtypes such as Outsider(Evil)?
This question is primarily angled at selecting favored enemies for a Ranger.
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

Offline Drammor

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2017, 04:27:15 PM »
There are no alignment subtypes.

This would be a great upgrade for rangers, since it means Outsider can be its own category of enemy, but you must also realize that in this campaign, the odds of finding an Outsider that would not have had the Evil subtype are all but nil. It would have come out to the same effect, either way.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Archon

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Re: Character Generation and Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2017, 03:15:44 AM »