Author Topic: 3 Melee Warlocks  (Read 1135 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 08:06:56 AM »
Is there a reason to consolidate these?

As for bastion shield abilities, if you want to tie into something like Mettle, you can give them an ability that effectively grants them Evasion (albeit, without the light armor restriction) so long as they are using a heavy or tower shield. I did something like this for my crusader rewrite, and called it Shielded Evasion.
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Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 12:05:57 PM »
A way to rework the Monk's Unarmed Strike for the Youxia is to make sure to have a good number of CL scaling effects, like Vampiric Touch, and then have the Unarmed Strike be either some set amount of d6s per attack, essentially Unarmed-and-Monk-Weapon-restricted Eldritch Glave for free, or having a CL-dependent Invocation go off with each attack with a CL equal to the number of dice on the Unarmed Strike. Then the issue with a Vampiric Touch on every hit of a Full Attack with a Double Weapon is rendered much smaller as the CL of this is lower than just using Vampiric Touch normally

It has some issues with attack spam, but it gives some vital differentiation of Eldritch Channeling, which is important to having the classes feel different. I'd actually give the Infiltrator bonus damage dice modeled more on Soulknife than Rogue, using up their Swift Action to activate the extra damage that also acts as a CL booster in a similar way. Like, generally give each class a slightly different tie-in to Eldritch Channeling and have two or three "versions" of it, with action-activation, like Soulknife's Psychic Strike, applies-to-X, as you're doing currently, and maybe tied-to-ability, like having the Untamed only get Eldritch Channeling when Raging/when Aggression kicks in.

In general, they feel too similar to Duskblade by being just Invocations usable with attacks, while also keeping too much similarity to their source Martial with how many features are unaltered.

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 02:34:37 AM »
I'm working on new, improved versions of bastion, infiltrator, and untamed.  I'm not quite ready to post them yet, but I want to get feedback on an idea I've written into the new drafts. 

So, I was thinking about arcane channeling.  Specifically, about how it's only compatible with a regular attack and, later, a full attack.  I was considering adding compatibility with making a charge.  But, you know, you're allowed to charge as a standard action if you're affected by slow, or something similar.  And then there are things like spring attack, decisive blow, and maneuvers. 

How about if I make channeling a swift action?  Charge the weapon up with an effect that discharges on the next successful hit?  (And, you know, fades at the start of your next turn, if it hasn't been discharged by then.) 

Offline Archon

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 07:41:14 AM »
I'm working on new, improved versions of bastion, infiltrator, and untamed.  I'm not quite ready to post them yet, but I want to get feedback on an idea I've written into the new drafts. 

So, I was thinking about arcane channeling.  Specifically, about how it's only compatible with a regular attack and, later, a full attack.  I was considering adding compatibility with making a charge.  But, you know, you're allowed to charge as a standard action if you're affected by slow, or something similar.  And then there are things like spring attack, decisive blow, and maneuvers. 

How about if I make channeling a swift action?  Charge the weapon up with an effect that discharges on the next successful hit?  (And, you know, fades at the start of your next turn, if it hasn't been discharged by then.)

The other thing you could do is attach it to any attack made, 1/round. That might be too much, though.

Are there many other things these classes are going to be doing with their swift actions? I don't remember many. Given that their swift actions don't have too much occupying them, I would say that the swift action channelling would probably work. (and then when you would get a full attack, the charging just doesn't discharge when you hit, but stays till the end of your turn?)

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 06:18:00 PM »
Are there many other things these classes are going to be doing with their swift actions?

Well, I was considering giving the classes a hustle invocation, some sort of swift-action teleport, and maybe one or more immediate-action invocation to help against a single attack.  But I guess none of those are really essential.  And, I guess, the good ones can stay and exist alongside channeling. 



and then when you would get a full attack, the charging just doesn't discharge when you hit, but stays till the end of your turn?

Well, I'm not completely sure how I want to work swift-action channeling.  The options I can think of are:
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  The next attack (before the start of your next turn) gains a special effect. 
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  Every enemy you hit before the start of your next turn suffers a special effect.  (But hitting a single enemy multiple times in the same turn still only causes the effect on it once.) 
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  All attacks until the start of your next turn carry a special effect. 

One nice thing about the swift-action idea is, it doesn't actually need to be a class feature.  I can just write swift-action invocations that have these effect.  So, I could potentially make one invocation work one way, and another work a different way. 

Offline Archon

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 11:26:32 PM »
Are there many other things these classes are going to be doing with their swift actions?

Well, I was considering giving the classes a hustle invocation, some sort of swift-action teleport, and maybe one or more immediate-action invocation to help against a single attack.  But I guess none of those are really essential.  And, I guess, the good ones can stay and exist alongside channeling. 


That seems about right. But nothing which is a lynch-pin for a class. As you say; if they are good, then people will want them anyway. And just the same, the other way around.

and then when you would get a full attack, the charging just doesn't discharge when you hit, but stays till the end of your turn?

Well, I'm not completely sure how I want to work swift-action channeling.  The options I can think of are:
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  The next attack (before the start of your next turn) gains a special effect. 
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  Every enemy you hit before the start of your next turn suffers a special effect.  (But hitting a single enemy multiple times in the same turn still only causes the effect on it once.) 
  • Charge the weapon as a swift action.  All attacks until the start of your next turn carry a special effect. 

One nice thing about the swift-action idea is, it doesn't actually need to be a class feature.  I can just write swift-action invocations that have these effect.  So, I could potentially make one invocation work one way, and another work a different way. 

If you're making it a class feature, I'd make it the first and then the third at a higher level - just make the debuff's non-stacking if you want them to only effect someone once (which they probably are/should be anyway).

But as you say; you could just have a bunch of invocations with native channelling. That might be a bit clunky, especially if you want to rework existing invocations to work with that, or create enough varied content to be worth it. But the extra flexibility might be worth it? Not sure.

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2017, 02:32:25 PM »
Okay, I'm going to put the current invocations in a spoiler here.  Soon, I'll post a (mostly) new selection.  (I just kind of want to keep the old one for comparison.) 

(click to show/hide)

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2017, 03:23:22 PM »
I have a few questions on potential invocations. 

When I put in teleport and plane shift invocations, should I combine both into a single invocation, or not?  I feel like there should be some kind of limitation.  Should it have a long casting time?  Or what?  I'm also considering working it as some sort of portal.  I feel like, if enemies can potentially follow you, it doesn't subvert the tension of combat as much.  Any ideas on how that would work? 

When I add invocations that attack ability scores, should it be ability drain, ability damage, or just a penalty?  Penalties that don't stack would prevent spamming. 

I'm not sure what to do about a silence invocation for Infiltrator.  If I want the class to be able to put silence on someone with a melee attack, then I have to make an invocation especially for that (the way I'm working it now).  If I want the class to have the a silence aura, but not the ability to produce arbitrarily-many silencing stones (or whatever) that they can carry around, I need to make it an emenation.  But buff invocations tend to have a duration of 24 hours, and I'm not sure anyone would actually want to radiate silence for that long. 

Should I put in a channeled version of Vampiric Strike?  Or a copy of Psychic Warrior's Vampiric Blade?  Should it have that "only up to 1/2" limitation that the at-will healing abilities tend to? 

Edit: Oh, and the new invocations are up. 

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2018, 05:23:30 PM »
Okay, I'm going to post a revised Infiltrator, so I'll put the old version here for comparison. 

(click to show/hide)

Edit: Okay, the new Infiltrator is posted. 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 05:38:17 PM by Maat Mons »

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2018, 06:26:15 PM »
Okay, I'm working on a new version of Bastion, but I've got a couple of that worry me about the current draft.  First, am I pushing the spear and shield angle too hard?  Second, does giving bastion mind-affecting immunity steel the thunder of untamed? 

LevelAttackFortRefWillSpecialInvocation LevelInvocations Known
11202Somatic weaponryLeast1
22303Special abilityLeast2
33313Dauntless (fear)Least2
44414Least3
55414Special abilityLeast3
66525Tenacity (fatigue)Lesser4
77525Second skin (1 category)Lesser4
88626Special abilityLesser5
99636Dauntless (charms and compulsions)Lesser5
1010737MettleLesser6
1111737Special abilityGreater7
1212848Tenacity (nonlethal damage)Greater7
1313848Second skin (2 categories)Greater8
1414949Special abilityGreater8
1515959Dauntless (all mind-affecting)Greater9
161610510Dark10
171710510Special abilityDark10
181811611Tenacity (stunning)Dark11
191911611Dark11
202012612Improved mettle, special abilityDark12

Somatic Weaponry:
You gain somatic weaponry as a bonus feat. 

Special Ability (Ex):
At 2nd level, and every 3 levels thereafter, you gain a special ability, chosen from the list below. 

Bonus Feat: You gain a bonus feat, chosen from the fighter bonus feat list.  You must meet all the prerequisites of the feat you choose. 

Eldritch Toughness: You can use your charisma modifier instead of your constitution modifier to determine you hit point total.  You must be at least 9th level in [this class] to select this special ability. 

Pole Sweep: You gain improved trip as a bonus feat.  (Even if you do not meet the prerequisites.)  Additionally, you can make trip attempts using any sort of polearm, not just those that can normally be used for tripping.  (When making a trip with one of these weapons, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped in return.) 

Retaliation: You can make an attack of opportunity against an enemy that successfully strikes you with a melee attack.  If you also have the karmic strike feat, you may still only make one attack of opportunity per enemy attack.  You must have at least 5 levels in [this class] in order to select this special ability. 

Shield Warrior: When you use a shield, all your melee weapons deal damage as if you were wielding them in two hands.  You may not utilize two-weapon fighting in any round in which you apply this benefit.  (You can still make a shield bash, but you must make it using one of your normal allotment of attacks.)   

Skewer: You can wield a spear or longspear (sized for you) as a 1-handed weapon.  This benefit does not apply to any other weapons. 

Sliding Grip: When using a polarm that provides reach, you also threaten adjacent squares.  Unlike the short haft feat, you continuously threaten both areas, rather than needing to switch between them. 

Dauntless (Ex):
At 3rd level, you gain immunity to fear effects.  At 9th level, you gain immunity to charms and compusions.  Finally, at 15th level, you gain immunity to all mind-affecting effects (but you may still choose to benefit from helpful mind-affecting effects). 

Tenacity (Ex):
At 6th level, you gain immunity to fatigue and exhaustion.  At 12th level, you gain immunity to nonlethal damage.  Finally, at 18th level, you gain immunity to stunning. 

Second Skin (Ex):
Beginning at 7th level, you treat any armor you wear as if it were 1 category lighter for purposes of determining your speed.  Beginning at 13th level, you may treat armor as 2 categories lighter. 

Mettle (Ex):

Improved Mettle (Ex):
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 06:27:46 PM by Maat Mons »

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 5 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2018, 02:53:04 AM »
Okay, so here's the first draft of another class. 

Sawbones

Hit Die: d8
LevelAttackFortRefWillSpecialInvocation LevelInvocations Known
10202favored weapon (+1 attack)Least1
21303immunity to diseaseLeast2
32313touch of healingLeast2
43414Least3
53414favored weapon (+2 attack)Least3
64525lesser restorationLesser4
75525Lesser4
86626panacea (but no healing)Lesser5
96636favored weapon (+3 attack)Lesser5
107737favored weapon (double threat range)Lesser6
118737Greater7
129848break enchantmentGreater7
139848favored weapon (+4 attack)Greater8
1410949restorationGreater8
1511959Greater9
161210510healing touch regenerates limbsDark10
171210510favored weapon (+5 attack)Dark10
181311611greater restorationDark11
191411611Dark11
201512612favored weapon (triple threat range)Dark12

Class Skills (4 + int per level x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
all simple weapons
one martial weapon (player's choice)
medium armor
shields (except tower shields)

Invocations
ignore spell failure for medium armor and shields (except tower shields)

Favored Weapon:
choose any type of weapon you are proficient with
it is now your "favored weapon"
doesn't have to be deity's favored weapon, but certainly can be
scaling bonus on attacks with that type of weapon
10th: double threat range with that type of weapon (doesn't stack with keen/imp crit)
20th: threat range with that type of weapon is tripled
counts as weapon focus for prerequisites
at 10th, also counts as improved critical for prerequisites

Immunity to Disease

Touch of Healing:
heal 2d8 damage (up to half max HP)
usable at will
+1d8 healing every odd-numbered level

Restoration
6th: lesser restoration at will
14th: restoration at will (no cost)
18th: greater restoration at will (still no cost)

Panacea
cast panacea at will, except it doesn't heal damage

Break Enchantment
cast break enchantment at will
[this can fix stone to flesh, right?]

Regenerate
at 16th level, touch of healing also restores limbs etc
works like regeneration spell (except the healing part)
still heals 1d8/2 levels (rounded up), to a maximum of half HP

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: 3 Melee Warlocks
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2018, 03:21:33 AM »
New versions of all 5 3 classes are up! 

Please give Infiltrator, Sawbones, and Stalwart a look, and tell me what you think.  Especially Sawbones, because I really need to brainstorm some more class features for that one. 

I'm trying to set Sawbones up to be able to handle the most common healy-type stuff.  But I'm also trying not to make the class too much about that.  How have I done?  Bear in mind, I'm not planning on creating any healy invocations.  I want the class to just incidentally gain basic healing competence, and then use the invocations for fun stuff.