Author Topic: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic  (Read 2407 times)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2017, 03:56:23 PM »
Also Jeremy already trying to nerf Healing Spirit already.

... I'll have my eye on it to see if it causes disruption in actual play, rather than in theoretical situations. If it does, we'll change it ...

Ranger 5 / 'Lock 3 / Life Cl 1 , would be a good test case. 
The rest of the build, is a bad archer, MAD, lots of overlaps.

Or say a party member Summons just to up the total users.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline Wilb

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Elder Lurker
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2017, 06:39:17 PM »
With rulings like those, I'll pick my own version of the rules for my group.

We're already using the old wizard spell table for slots, and giving some extra spells for the monsters so that our abjurer won't feel sad about having dispel magic.
Lovely Zoma...

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6841
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2017, 06:59:19 PM »
Looks like Eld Smite can use 5th level slots, while Pally can't.
You're not thinking large enough, a Sorlock can't burn his 9th level Slots on Eldritch Smite with this nerf. He could have nerfed it by saying it's supposed to be capped at 5d8 and the upcoming Errata will correct it but, specially given Oath of Conquest's deal, he must really like the idea of Paladins being a nova dip.

I suppose a Life Cleric dip could get the #'s up quite tasty,
I think you're better off imaging the full ramifications of the ability.

Quote from: PHB
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
So, does this ability apply once per Spell?
Plaguescarred: Hola gents! Quick question, does Discipline of Life works on Goodberry granting every goodberry additional HP?
Jeremy Crawford: I would allow it.
No, a Life Domain Cleric with Magic Initiate can provide +3hp per Goodberry or up to +30hp/slot and that is all the better it gets.

Now then.
Quote from: Xanathar
In addition. if you cast a spell using a spell slot that restores hit points to any creature inside or outside the aura, each creature of your choice in the aura also regains hit points equal to your druid level.
So, does this ability apply once per Spell?

If so, well... Given that the Adventurer's League uses 3~7 man parties a third level Druid can use his Aura and cast Goodberry, each member gains +3hp from the aura and they can still recover using the berries for a total of +31hp/slot. It will continue to get even higher than that, up to 150hp/slot. Even in small parties, Healing Word in the hands of a Life Cleric is 1d8+Mod+2 but a third level Druid gets 1d8+Mod+3 to one target and lots of +3s to everyone else making it unmatchable.

But what if it's supposed to apply like Jeremy says Disciple of Life does? Imagine if a Druid casts Healing Spirit using a 2nd level Slot to try to heal up to to 1d8+20hp, to each party member, for each round, for nine rounds, using nothing but his Bonus Actions. You'd wasting useful Druid progression to dip Cleric for a measly +3 bonus in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:26:22 PM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Wilb

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Elder Lurker
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2017, 08:52:33 PM »
Looks like Eld Smite can use 5th level slots, while Pally can't.
You're not thinking large enough, a Sorlock can't burn his 9th level Slots on Eldritch Smite with this nerf. He could have nerfed it by saying it's supposed to be capped at 5d8 and the upcoming Errata will correct it but, specially given Oath of Conquest's deal, he must really like the idea of Paladins being a nova dip.

I suppose a Life Cleric dip could get the #'s up quite tasty,
I think you're better off imaging the full ramifications of the ability.

Quote from: PHB
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
So, does this ability apply once per Spell?
Plaguescarred: Hola gents! Quick question, does Discipline of Life works on Goodberry granting every goodberry additional HP?
Jeremy Crawford: I would allow it.
No, a Life Domain Cleric with Magic Initiate can provide +3hp per Goodberry or up to +30hp/slot and that is all the better it gets.

Now then.
Quote from: Xanathar
In addition. if you cast a spell using a spell slot that restores hit points to any creature inside or outside the aura, each creature of your choice in the aura also regains hit points equal to your druid level.
So, does this ability apply once per Spell?

If so, well... Given that the Adventurer's League uses 3~7 man parties a third level Druid can use his Aura and cast Goodberry, each member gains +3hp from the aura and they can still recover using the berries for a total of +31hp/slot. It will continue to get even higher than that, up to 150hp/slot. Even in small parties, Healing Word in the hands of a Life Cleric is 1d8+Mod+2 but a third level Druid gets 1d8+Mod+3 to one target and lots of +3s to everyone else making it unmatchable.

But what if it's supposed to apply like Jeremy says Disciple of Life does? Imagine if a Druid casts Healing Spirit using a 2nd level Slot to try to heal up to to 1d8+20hp, to each party member, for each round, for nine rounds, using nothing but his Bonus Actions. You'd wasting useful Druid progression to dip Cleric for a measly +3 bonus in my opinion.

Beautiful CharOp, its like I'm in 2003 again...
Lovely Zoma...

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6841
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2017, 11:13:32 AM »
Beautiful CharOp, its like I'm in 2003 again...
I hope not. Maybe it'll be a little different this time and people won't get hung up on arguing their misinterpretation must be the only way to handle things.

We have enough of that with Mike & Jeremy anyway, Mearls issued this two days before Jeremy's comment about looking into it.
TysonGlaser: Druid Healing Spirit out of combat? 1 min, people walk in a circle through it each “round”, 10d6 worth of healing at lvl2 ??? Surely not…what am I missing?
mikemearls: Key is out of combat – burning level 2 spell for quasi-short rest is balanced, opportunity cost of not using 2nd level slot can be big; also, a lot of that healing will be overkill at low levels
Mearl's deal on out-of-combat makes sense and Jeremy semi-agrees but
We actually balance the game assuming player characters are at full health. We have to do that, since an encounter could happen at any point. An extra powerful healing spell doesn't unbalance the game. But it can disrupt what feels right to a group. That's what concerns us.
Is something that shouldn't be a thing. Like anywhere, it's the problem with the US in a nutshell but that's a slightly larger tangent.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:20:47 AM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Wilb

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Elder Lurker
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2017, 12:47:05 PM »
We actually balance the game assuming player characters are at full health. We have to do that, since an encounter could happen at any point. An extra powerful healing spell doesn't unbalance the game. But it can disrupt what feels right to a group. That's what concerns us.
Is something that shouldn't be a thing. Like anywhere, it's the problem with the US in a nutshell but that's a slightly larger tangent.

True.
Lovely Zoma...

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2017, 03:10:32 PM »
Here I was just thinking about the lowly RangerBM.


... An extra powerful healing spell doesn't unbalance the game. ... But it can disrupt what feels right to a group. That's what concerns us.

So, what should they do, maybe make it a Ranger BM class feature?


 :tongue  Feelings , nothing more than Feelings ...
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »
Among the Ruby, the Hat and other common magic items,
it looks like basically anything  can be an arcane focus.

iirc the economics is good as of 3rd level, and right before
a feat pick = perfect timing for a straight class Gish.


That 1st new Barb subclass gets more Div quantity + quality
than any of the lesser casters RogAT , FiEK , Pally + phb Ranger.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 05:27:12 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6841
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 11:02:43 PM »
T2238069576: In your opinion, would it be balanced to give the Shadow Monk the spell “Shadow Blade” from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything for 4 or 6 ki
Mike Mearls It should be – spells costed out in ki are basically spell slots. No books here, so exact cost is like
Shadow Blade Monks would be pretty cool. Since a Shadow Blade counts as a simple weapon and lacks the Two-Handed/Heavy property you can still use your Flurry of Blows too and it should work with Kensei too making it an interesting take on a Soulknife.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
hmm not sure what he means by that.
Perhaps he's just giving the dude ~permission (that he doesn't actually need) , like a blessing from the godfather.

Normal spell point pricing goes 0/2/3/5/6/7 per level
but the Monk 4 Elements goes 1/2/3/4/5/6 per ~level equivalent.
Shadow Blade is a level 2 spell right (?) so it should be 3 points.
But who knows for sure about that.  An eventual monk multiclass
Tashalatora-like feat, is going to be hard to word correctly.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2017, 06:48:05 PM »
Word Of Radiance cantrip is better than Thunderclap
or Swordburst , friendly hoard clearer , and quite tasty
at level 8 with a +wis domain and Spell Sniper feat.

Zephyr Strike is conc , but makes you AoO proof = positive feedback.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6841
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 11:56:25 AM »
Spell Sniper requires an Attack Roll to double the range but yeah Zephyr is great. Specially if you don't bother to Concentrate on it, popping it as a Bonus Action gives you four benefits that roughly come out to move where you need to be and hurt what you need to hurt.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: New Spells from Xanathar Discussion Topic
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2017, 02:21:33 PM »

Spell Sniper requires an Attack Roll to double the range ...

D'oh , forgot that detail.  OK, acceptable choice at level 10 for most.
Good choice at level 3 for the level 8 +d8 domains, or War.


Quote

...  but yeah Zephyr is great. Specially if you don't bother to Concentrate on it, popping it as a Bonus Action gives you four benefits that roughly come out to move where you need to be and hurt what you need to hurt.

Niice.  Choosing whether to go conc or not, is a useful twist.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings