Author Topic: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)  (Read 761 times)

Offline Kuroimaken

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Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« on: January 23, 2018, 06:28:37 PM »
The premise is simple. I want a bard that can raise the dead, especially badass skeletons if at all possible.

Of course, 'bard' here is a bit of a loose term. The bard class is notoriously lacking in abilities such as turn undead to actually control undead. I suspect even taking Sublime Chord and Spelldancer cheese this might be a tricky thing to do.

I recall a class called the Dirgesinger that seemed basically to be a sadboi skeleton-buffing bard, but I can't remember what exactly it did or if it was any good.
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 09:01:22 PM »
Dirgesingers get the ability to create undead at 5th level of the PrC (ECL10 unless you can find a way to cheese Perform ranks), and they only last as long as you perform.

I think Ravenloft had a different take on a necromantic bard PrC somewhere. Is 2nd party crunch fine before I go digging?
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Offline ketaro

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 09:01:44 PM »
Oh, I asked towards this exact thing a couple years ago :D

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=15932.0

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 09:07:28 PM »
The bard class is notoriously lacking in abilities such as turn undead to actually control undead.
Requiem allows Bardic Music to buff Undead.

You can pretty much just build a Bard/Crusader/Sublime/JPM and just make your own friends to buff. But if you want something more Death Metal like we could do that too.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 06:08:05 AM »
Dirgesingers get the ability to create undead at 5th level of the PrC (ECL10 unless you can find a way to cheese Perform ranks), and they only last as long as you perform.

I think Ravenloft had a different take on a necromantic bard PrC somewhere. Is 2nd party crunch fine before I go digging?
Sure, why not. This is more to fit the theme than anything.

I kind of like that the undead the dirgesinger gets is able to cast spells and stuff, but the "can't be dead for more than an hour" thing sort of prevents reutilizing the same body unless you can somehow perform forever.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 08:54:15 AM »
Dirgesinger is also a bit of a dump because you get 5 whole levels where you don't get bardic music progression or bonus, in spite of requiring a feat which has the single purpose of letting bard song affect undead in favor of some save or sucks and a damage effect that only works once per 24h. So I'm thinking there ought to be some better alternatives out there.

Is there a way to sub turn undead for bardic music uses and/or replacing cleric levels with bard levels for the purpose of rebuking/controlling undead? I think there was a divine bard sub somewhere.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 11:46:28 AM »
Is there a way to sub turn undead for bardic music uses and/or replacing cleric levels with bard levels for the purpose of rebuking/controlling undead? I think there was a divine bard sub somewhere.
Divine Bard is in the UA/SRD but you can skip it to remain Charisma-based and just take Arcane Disciple for the Death or Undeath Domains. You can also use Planar Touchstone and Catalouges of Elightenment to pick up Turn {Descripter/Subtype}, works great on the elemental Hydras.

Might I suggest Pale Master if you don't want to use Maneuvers?
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 02:15:26 PM »
Dirgesingers get the ability to create undead at 5th level of the PrC (ECL10 unless you can find a way to cheese Perform ranks), and they only last as long as you perform.

I think Ravenloft had a different take on a necromantic bard PrC somewhere. Is 2nd party crunch fine before I go digging?
Sure, why not. This is more to fit the theme than anything.
I checked. It was the Dirgist in Van Richten's Arsenal, and it is utterly useless.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 02:28:15 PM »
He might have meant Ravenloft as in Expedition to Ravenloft, and official adventure with several Lightbringer ACFs. But it's a wash on the Bard's end, you can burn a Turn Undead attempt for a +2 level bonus with Turn Undead but it cannot be used on your self.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 10:07:33 AM »
Is there a way to sub turn undead for bardic music uses and/or replacing cleric levels with bard levels for the purpose of rebuking/controlling undead? I think there was a divine bard sub somewhere.
Divine Bard is in the UA/SRD but you can skip it to remain Charisma-based and just take Arcane Disciple for the Death or Undeath Domains. You can also use Planar Touchstone and Catalouges of Elightenment to pick up Turn {Descripter/Subtype}, works great on the elemental Hydras.

Might I suggest Pale Master if you don't want to use Maneuvers?

Well, the point of this guy is to be a necro but ALSO be a bard. So if we can somehow optimize for Bardic music on an undead creation scheme, then we're golden.

I suspect Sublime Chord is going to be involved regardless.

Edit: Oooo, Pale Master bases his abilities off arcane caster level. Spelldancer cheese just became a much more interesting option.  :plotting

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 10:10:12 AM by Kuroimaken »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 11:25:05 AM »
If you can use the Feat-Adaption of the Uncanny Trickster (listed after the class's features in complete scoundrel) you can snag three of Spelldancer's required Feats while still providing +2 levels of Bardic Music.

Bard 6 / Crusader 1 / Trickster 3 / Sublime 1 / Spelldancer 1 / Pale Master 7 / Crusader 2 with Requiem & Combat Casting. Use Flaws to pick up Extend & Persist then consider Metamagic Song & Extra Music to persist Evocation & Necromancy Spells before you even enter Spelldancer. So from there, I guess just grab Corpsecrafter's chain and maybe Lord of Uttercold and/or Song of the White Raven out of the rest and whatever extra slots you come up with.

Edit: I think you can trade Bardic Music's Suggestion for Song of the Heart too.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:33:26 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Arz

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 04:00:16 PM »
Dirgesinger is mostly replaced by the ??? song feat from eberron.

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 03:37:01 PM »
Dirgesinger is mostly replaced by the ??? song feat from eberron.
Boy, I really want to look into that, but Eberron has a LOT of feats...

Do you know which book it's in?
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Offline Solo

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 12:44:30 AM »
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Help with a Thematic build: Necrobard (3.5)
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 09:11:42 AM »
Requiem?

Yeah, that pretty much goes without saying I guess.

This can probably be done with summon undead spells, too. Strike a chord, and it's thriller night.
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