OOC Discussion and shit

[ariasderros]

Crap, it doesn't work.  Darts aren't bludgeoning.

We need to find a high damage-to-weight ratio bludgeoning weapon.

Sling bullets = Dart. Same d4 for a 1/2lb base at medium size.

You're not enchanting them, so it doesn't matter if 1/2 of them break. Since it'll just be round 1, True Create massive bullet. Round 2, shrink bullet. Round 3-30, repeat steps 1&2. Permanence is one round per bullet if desired. Double rounds for spell replenishment. Maximum time to make 15 Bullets of Badasseries (w/ Permanence and spell replenishment): 3 Minutes.

[Quillwraith]

So I'd used the Deck of Many Things (we already had it, I just hadn't used it) + a Handy Haversack to hit level... 316? IIRC.
Then used DCFS + Heroics, to be what I call "the 9th path to pun-pun", as with this, at epic levels, you can have whatever stats you want. Level 316 is Epic.

How did you use the deck reliably?
What is DCFS + Heroics?

EDIT: where'd I get a recognition?

[sirpercival]

Haversack gives you the card you want

And Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle on the feat granted to you by Heroics.

EDIT: Probably for the homebrew game setting stuff.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Haversack gives you the card you want

And Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle on the feat granted to you by Heroics.

EDIT: Probably for the homebrew game setting stuff.

I think "Artifact" trumps "Minor Wondrous Item", and to be honest you would be retrieving the "Deck" from your Haversack, not the "Comet Card from the Deck". Otherwise people would be beating the door down to try to get the Deck and then just declare "I'm drawing a billion cards... from my Haversack" and then just going like everyone's favorite TV show from the 80's, Joker's Wild... and going "JOKER JOKER JOKER!"

Or maybe just "MOON MOON MOON!"

[McPoyo]

Technically, per RAW, that trick does work.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Technically, per RAW, that trick does work.

Show me.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Cause, as written, the Handy Haversack is:

"When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top."

The specific item you're reaching for would be the Deck, unless you managed to get an individual card from the deck by itself. The card you are to draw is unknown until you draw it, and you always draw from the top. If you don't draw a card within an hour, the top card is automatically flipped for you, since the words "Deck" and "Dick" are pretty close to one another.

So as written, this doesn't work. Sorry.

EDIT: Though, be careful when drawing out the deck that you don't accidentally just take the top card. After all, the Deck is right on top of the haversack. It'd be a shame if you drew the wrong card from, essentially, one of the primal instruments of chaos.

[McPoyo]

That's using an inaccurate definition of item, there. Any individual card is an item. If I reach in for "the card of death", then that satisfies the item's ability.

[ariasderros]

@ Sneaky, about the Deck Spoilered due to length and off-topic.

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Cause, as written, the Handy Haversack is:

"When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top."

The specific item you're reaching for would be the Deck, unless you managed to get an individual card from the deck by itself. The card you are to draw is unknown until you draw it, and you always draw from the top. If you don't draw a card within an hour, the top card is automatically flipped for you, since the words "Deck" and "Dick" are pretty close to one another.

So as written, this doesn't work. Sorry.

EDIT: Though, be careful when drawing out the deck that you don't accidentally just take the top card. After all, the Deck is right on top of the haversack. It'd be a shame if you drew the wrong card from, essentially, one of the primal instruments of chaos.

I bold'ed where you're wrong. The first one is a semantic point, and would be pointless to argue about back & forth. But at no point does the Deck require you to draw from the top. Think the stage magician with the deck splayed out saying "pick a card". That's the deck, you can draw from anywhere (kinda a "nothing says I can't argument, but I've never seen it argued any other way until you just did). As such, you put it sideways into the Haversack. Tell the bag what card you want to be "on top", and it raises the card from the side, thus you just draw the card that is raised. It's like having a trimmed card (to influence the cut), but in reverse.

Because of this, it is not about "doesn't work cause artifacts stronger!", since their effects don't actually directly interact, you're just using one item to cheat another. Think of it this way, if a person had 600 of the amulets that let you re-live a round, and a contingent spell, they would be able to achieve the same thing: draw a card, not what I want, re-do with amulet, if Void, contingent triggers magic mouth to activate the amulet before the void has its effect. This also works. Haversack is just cheaper.

The point is, CO and TO boards are 95% about how to make the Random Number Generator (usually dice) favor you. This is why Iterative Probability is so heatedly debated here, which, if you remember, is the main thing Osle was worried about that list of acronyms.

If you hand a CO board a use of Random Number Variables (in this case, the RNG is cards), wherein there is that good of a side effect, we will (and have) find at least 7 ways to break it. (there may be more than 7 with the deck, I've now covered 2 and don't plan to do more)

[Sneaky_Sable]

It's stuff like this that feels like gross deviations of the spirit of the game. I won't argue any further.

[McPoyo]

And that's the key point. Rules as Intended vs Rules as Written.

[Sneaky_Sable]

And that's the key point. Rules as Intended vs Rules as Written.

vs. Rules as Interpreted.

[ariasderros]

It's stuff like this that feels like gross deviations of the spirit of the game. I won't argue any further.

IMO, the deck itself is that on its own.

Seriously, it is, at best, a tool for the DM to troll to a greater extent than any DM should (and I'm a DM that does like his trolling).
At worst, it is one of the quickest ways to imbalance the party so severely that people are guaranteed to get frustrated.
It is, on its own, the source of many, many, horrid gaming stories.
My opinion of any DM who puts it into their world in the first place drops by many notches. So the fact that there are many ways to abuse its mechanics should be a moot point anyway. Because the item is absolutely game-breaking with abuse, and just feels like it broke the games fun without abuse.

I'd say "no offence if you've used it". But, ummm... I really hate that items existence.
And yes, that did play a small part in what led to us all deciding that DM was a bad DM. The main reasons for us quitting his game in as dick move of a fashion as possible was because of a LOT of non-game-related stuff that he let affect his games though, more than anything in-character.

[Sneaky_Sable]

Oh, it's a vicious item, which is why it was probably moved from "Magical Items" to "Minor Artifacts" from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. There are as many horror stories about it as there are blades of grass in my front lawn, but for every billion "And then my character exploded" stories, there is that one "I survived the Deck of Many Things".

The Players Handbook II had an interesting spin on a variant DoMT, but it was just too insane. Retrain a level as Cleric. Take a monk level and cry about it. Gain two points of this. Gain a feat, get a that, lose everything, change gender, become a mermaid, then turn into salt and die.

I'm kidding about a few of them. I'll let you all guess which ones.

And hey, no offense taken. I put the Deck of Many Fates (My variant of the DoMT, slightly less insane) in my campaign universe as a draw to players. They seek it out, they know the risks, and they draw. If it blows up their character, I've essentially signed my waiver of "Hey, you went through twelve game sessions following legend and rumor to find it. If you become a lycanthropic vampire pygmy quadriplegic, it's on you."

I also tend to Monty Hall, so if people want to seek out the Deck because they want MORE power, MORE wealth, and MORE stuff, well then they know the risks.

And on a more on topic note, the build is continuing. Had a bit of a rough day on Thursday, and took a mental health day on Friday, so we'll see how much we can get accomplished today.

If the GM's ready and everyone else is built, you can all begin, and I can be introduced slightly later on if that's convenient for everyone.

[ariasderros]

And on a more on topic note, the build is continuing. Had a bit of a rough day on Thursday, and took a mental health day on Friday, so we'll see how much we can get accomplished today.

If the GM's ready and everyone else is built, you can all begin, and I can be introduced slightly later on if that's convenient for everyone.

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Variant of the OT item = making it a good idea usually. The point really was: it didn't matter really at the time whether it was RAW, RAI or just a FU to the guy, we were just trying to ride the nuke on its way down on our terms. The side point was: I feel it should never matter, because that thing should never be used as written anyway.

Quill, Myself, and HoV all have Work In Progress tags throughout our Char. sheets, and McPoyo has a "what needs done" line in his (hers?, don't like to assume). And the DM is busy and trying to do stuff too, so I think you're good for now.

I myself just actually need to run some stuff by Aye, which I could do sometime this week, spend my money, which I could do in an hour or less after I run stuff by Aye. And do my feats and their progression. Which feels like it would take a full workday to do. Seriously. I went way past feat happy, but I will use them, just need to order them logically.

Oh, and write up my leadership stuff, like my "brother". But that should all go quickly, as I know what I want to do, and just need to do it.

[HeadofVecna]

I've been somewhat stalled on finishing Nom. I have more done than is posted. And if Aye announces a deadline I certainly plan to meet it. But if the game experiences failure to launch, I'd rather play Mass Effect 3 

[McPoyo]

I'm a he.

I also have more done than is posted, but I'm in the middle of getting hammered by work right now, so haven't had a chance to post it.

[McPoyo]

Unfortunately, due to previously mentioned work hammering, I may need to drop out of this game. If the only thing keeping this from starting is me, go ahead and start and I'll join in if there's an opening in the future.

[AyeGill]

Well, I'll admit I'm not complete sure who's done with what, but a couple of the character sheets still have WIP tags on them, and due in part to aforementioned busyness, and in part to a moderate creative block, I've got a huge amount of shit to get done before I'm comfortable starting the campaign.

[Sneaky_Sable]

I think we all got hit by a nasty case of the "BUSY WORK" bug. I've made little to no progress on my commoner turned warlord, mostly because it's been busy as hell here, and also because I want to double check everything to make sure that not only does it all make sense seamlessly, but that it also all adds up and such. Sure we're game breaking douchebags, but I want to be a "legit by math" douchebag.

I'll post what I have when I can get the time.