OOC Discussion and shit

[sirpercival]

Question -- how much work should I put into designing Nowhere and the Nihil?  If we're not going to spend much time there, it won't be worth it, but if it'll be important to the story then I'd be happy to put some time into it.

[AyeGill]

Question -- how much work should I put into designing Nowhere and the Nihil?  If we're not going to spend much time there, it won't be worth it, but if it'll be important to the story then I'd be happy to put some time into it.

As long as you have a general idea of how Nowhere looks, and you can show me some sort of templated mess that is the Nihil, we're good.

[ariasderros]

...and what do you have in mind with Gloves of Storing, if anything specific? I'm not sure about free actions, to be honest, as long as you're not doing something that goes above and beyond what is normally considered ridiculous(what we are doing), it should be fine.

The most "broken" thing I can think of with Gloves of Storing would be storing plates with Symbol spells on them, then "flicking" them in and out to proc about 5 saves / turn if the limit were 10. As a free action. Best would be Charm and Weakness. I used this in a less powerful game once, with the limit of 6 activation of the gloves each round (one each second, as the DM ruled the command word would take 1 second), resulting in three Fort saves (I think the DC was ~36) or take 3d6 Str damage (per failure), or make three Will saves or be my friend.
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No affiliations...
Also, I think between all your backgrounds, we have enough hooks for a decent sandbox game.

Umm... my background isn't up yet, but the shorthand would be 1/3 Alia Atreides, 1/3 Rico from Judge Dread and 1/3 Zygmunt Molotch. Now that I know there is no affiliations, I can finish my b/g and have it up sometime tomorrow morning.
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So that just means we need to contrive a reason for you to meet up and work together. Any ideas? Otherwise we'll just go with "guy hired you all for fetchquest/dungeon crawl", which is a tad weak.

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Have the game start out with intrigue? You have the world as ...

Prime material is basically one big war-torn wasteland. Various city-states are founded and run by mage-lords until they're gobbled up by some other empire or schism when their leader dies....
The gist of things is that the entire continent is just one big playground for nigh-omnipotent mages fighting and backstabbing each other, and the few good mages around generally have a hard time because they lack access to delicious stuff like Dark Craft gold and XP, while not having any significant edge over the evil mages.

So we are all targeted by the same unknown entity? A mage trying to make his mark with our blood, but knows he isn't our equal, so for now he is subverting our actions. Basically, what the Omnificer was meant to be against Pun-Pun and the Joker Bard is the the Batman Wizard.

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As long as you have a general idea of how Nowhere looks,

Ummmmmmm...... I know how it looks. 

[AyeGill]

As long as you have a general idea of how Nowhere looks,

Ummmmmmm...... I know how it looks. 

With true seeing on 

[ariasderros]

Also, one other point about the Wish Economy.

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Astral Projection.

Wish can make any item of up to 25K, and AP can copy anything that has been made.

This would mean that even expensive items would only have to be made once.

IE>  someone makes the "robe of everything": +25 enhancement to AC; every armor SQ; every robe SQ; Et Alli
>> person keeps the original, as the "forge prototype"
>>> person uses AP to copy the "prototype"
>>>> person continues process until the "robe of everything" is on every single commoner.

Person would only have made the original for a reason, but once made, it lost all value.

So in a "High-Magic Economy" the only thing of value is items that haven't been produced yet, or unique services.

Also, speaking of stuff, I will be submitting 1-3 items for your approval after I finish by b/g, and a few staffs as well.

[McPoyo]

As far a commonalities, none of us particularly enjoy the gods. We have one guy who wants to build his own, one guy who wants to kill them all, and one who wants to eventually become one (me), I have no idea about the other two players, so far.

And speaking of Vecna, I doubt he'd have an issue helping to kill the other gods as a power play for himself. He's been everything from a mortal, to nearly an Overgod, and back again more than once in his history, and has either survived or self-resurrected himself after his deific death at least three times i know of.

Arias, is what you've posted all that you have done regarding that elder evil? I'm having a hard time reconciling my character worshipping anything but an elder evil at this point, and may be jumping on your bandwagon.

[ariasderros]

Arias, is what you've posted all that you have done regarding that elder evil? I'm having a hard time reconciling my character worshipping anything but an elder evil at this point, and may be jumping on your bandwagon.

I did basically everything BUT stat him / his signs, etc.
I've referenced other parts of his ideals here, but I am refraining from revealing everything just because I'm unsure of how much will be character knowledge. That is up to Ayegill. Though to be fair, I have a starting Int of 36, will have several ranks in each knowledge, and my "Zygmunt Molotch" comes form his Cogitae training, which my "Cogitae" was the cult. You'll understand when I post it, but the point is, I doubt the C.I.A. will lack for the knowledge about Sarasic.

If Ayegill doesn't mind, I'll repost what I sent him here.

P.S. Yes, come to the dark side.

P.P.S. We have CAKE!

[McPoyo]

Reason i'm asking is that I have a serious problem trying to even see how my character falls on the "become undead or not" scale, purely because drow live a damned long time to begin with, and there's plenty of magic to make that "damned long time" into 'eternity" to begin with.

[sirpercival]

Arias, is what you've posted all that you have done regarding that elder evil? I'm having a hard time reconciling my character worshipping anything but an elder evil at this point, and may be jumping on your bandwagon.

I did basically everything BUT stat him / his signs, etc.
I've referenced other parts of his ideals here, but I am refraining from revealing everything just because I'm unsure of how much will be character knowledge. That is up to Ayegill. Though to be fair, I have a starting Int of 36, will have several ranks in each knowledge, and my "Zygmunt Molotch" comes form his Cogitae training, which my "Cogitae" was the cult. You'll understand when I post it, but the point is, I doubt the C.I.A. will lack for the knowledge about Sarasic.

If Ayegill doesn't mind, I'll repost what I sent him here.

P.S. Yes, come to the dark side.

P.P.S. We have CAKE!

Invisible cake!

[McPoyo]

Unrelated to anything else: I just want to say, illithid underboob is slightly more disturbing than 4e dragonborn having boobs. But only slightly.

Granted, I also just laughed my ass off between the underboob and the "open bar" sign with all the skulls.

[ariasderros]

(click to show/hide)

Arias, is what you've posted all that you have done regarding that elder evil? I'm having a hard time reconciling my character worshipping anything but an elder evil at this point, and may be jumping on your bandwagon.

I did basically everything BUT stat him / his signs, etc.
I've referenced other parts of his ideals here, but I am refraining from revealing everything just because I'm unsure of how much will be character knowledge. That is up to Ayegill. Though to be fair, I have a starting Int of 36, will have several ranks in each knowledge, and my "Zygmunt Molotch" comes form his Cogitae training, which my "Cogitae" was the cult. You'll understand when I post it, but the point is, I doubt the C.I.A. will lack for the knowledge about Sarasic.

If Ayegill doesn't mind, I'll repost what I sent him here.

P.S. Yes, come to the dark side.

P.P.S. We have CAKE!

Invisible cake!

I knew someone would say that. 

Reason i'm asking is that I have a serious problem trying to even see how my character falls on the "become undead or not" scale, purely because drow live a damned long time to begin with, and there's plenty of magic to make that "damned long time" into 'eternity" to begin with.

Well, I designed Sarasic a long time ago as a DM, and I didn't want the cult to try to use Deep Rot to help them think, so I added in a clause wherein he doesn't like undead (yet another god fucking with him, that time Nerull). And I kept that on him when submitted to Aye. So you wouldn't follow mine and be undead.

More to the point though, why would you want to be undead.

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Pro: Undead immunities.
Con: can all be emulated by spells.
Pro: Immune to most Fort saves
Cons: A) there are beneficial things that have fort saves with the (harmless) descriptor, and you could no longer be hit by those. B) Vulnerable to Turn, which in a high-op world, would mean you'd be light>dust in days. C) no bonus from Con on fort saves that do affect you.
Pro: all d12 HD
Con: no bonus to HP from con to HP, which would me more

I could actually go on, but my point is, undead are niche. Only be one if you have a reason. Kind of like being a half-elf outside of eberron is pointless, and in eberron the only point is if you start taking marks.

EDIT:

Unrelated to anything else: I just want to say, illithid underboob is slightly more disturbing than 4e dragonborn having boobs. But only slightly.

Granted, I also just laughed my ass off between the underboob and the "open bar" sign with all the skulls.

I love that poster. My sanity left long ago.
EDIT: EDIT: OH! I didn't realize you'd used the picture as yours. 
I need to find a better "half-minotaur mongrelfolk" with a Kuato halfling. but the Tauren works for now.

[AyeGill]

If Ayegill doesn't mind, I'll repost what I sent him here.

I don't mind, as I assume you would know that(especially seeing as how you're a member of his cult).

Also, about astral projection: good point. Let's say various powerful entities have an interest in the economy remaining functional(because they're at the top of it), so if you try to use Astral Projection or the like to make infinite items, they make sure you won't be doing that any more.

[ariasderros]

Sarasic
Elder Evil Profile
Background

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He was once a Half-Dragon Lizardfolk Archivist, tasked with the protection of his village from any form of arcane threat. He failed.
Worshipers of Erythnul on a slaughter-binge decided that no one would miss the settlement of lizardfolk. They charged through killing everyone and everything in the village. Sarasic survived only by means of a Death Pact that had been placed on him.

After the loss of his village, he tried to pray to various gods, including Bahamut and Heironeous, for retribution against Erythnul and his followers, but his prayers went unanswered. When a cult dedicated to Nerull came to the area where Sarasics village once was, and began using the bodies and spirits, Sarasic realized that the “good” gods were never going to help, but that the evil gods were going to continue to sow mayhem. He decided that if the gods who were supposed to help people would not then that meant that the entire pantheon needed to be “refreshed”. This would entail the deicide of all of the major members of the current pantheons.

Sarasic realized that to take on the gods was a monumental task, not to be taken lightly, and set about methods to plan their destruction. As he set himself on his path, he also took note of events wherein the gods committed or allowed other atrosities, and eventually came to believe that it was his destiny to destroy them.

After many years of study into how to accomplish his twisted revenge, he came upon the information of the progenitor races. Using their abilities to alter himself to near-deity hood himself was his goal. Unfortunately, the gods learned of his plans, as Sarasic could not hide his knowledge and secrets from those that govern such things. Sarasic had already managed to make himself powerful enough to resist the gods attempt to destroy him by the time they acted, however the gods of magic collaborated to make a prison for Sarasic, inside of which time would stop entirely*.

* basically, the Amber Sarcophagus spell on crack.

Goals

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Be set free.
Make a better plan to kill the gods.#
Kill the gods.

# being pun-pun to kill the gods doesn’t work, because they’re already omnificers, so he never even really got into the powerful abilities or any infinities or nigh-infinities before they stopped him.

Dogma
-Seek to free him (duh).
-Seek to subvert the gods (duh).
-Do not tolerate the undead, as they are the tools of the gods (his village was used by a Nerull cult).
-Seek out information, as Knowledge is the gods greatest weapon. Do not hesitate to share this information with other mortals, as This degrades the gods advantage. Do not share knowledge with those that will only use it to serve the gods, as that only empowers the enemy, instead use deception against the enemy wherever possible.


Do you want me to do any more? Do you want to decide the knowledge DC's or me? Stat block? Etc.

so if you try to use Astral Projection or the like to make infinite items

"make infinite"

Is it okay if I use the method to have 1-2 extra copies of my stuff though? Especially my scepters, wands & staffs?

Other than having a "backup stash" so I'm not completely  AFU by a Mordies DJ, it would also expedite helping one another gear up. At least for things we are mutually interested in.

[AyeGill]

Sarasic
Elder Evil Profile
Background

(click to show/hide)

He was once a Half-Dragon Lizardfolk Archivist, tasked with the protection of his village from any form of arcane threat. He failed.
Worshipers of Erythnul on a slaughter-binge decided that no one would miss the settlement of lizardfolk. They charged through killing everyone and everything in the village. Sarasic survived only by means of a Death Pact that had been placed on him.

After the loss of his village, he tried to pray to various gods, including Bahamut and Heironeous, for retribution against Erythnul and his followers, but his prayers went unanswered. When a cult dedicated to Nerull came to the area where Sarasics village once was, and began using the bodies and spirits, Sarasic realized that the “good” gods were never going to help, but that the evil gods were going to continue to sow mayhem. He decided that if the gods who were supposed to help people would not then that meant that the entire pantheon needed to be “refreshed”. This would entail the deicide of all of the major members of the current pantheons.

Sarasic realized that to take on the gods was a monumental task, not to be taken lightly, and set about methods to plan their destruction. As he set himself on his path, he also took note of events wherein the gods committed or allowed other atrosities, and eventually came to believe that it was his destiny to destroy them.

After many years of study into how to accomplish his twisted revenge, he came upon the information of the progenitor races. Using their abilities to alter himself to near-deity hood himself was his goal. Unfortunately, the gods learned of his plans, as Sarasic could not hide his knowledge and secrets from those that govern such things. Sarasic had already managed to make himself powerful enough to resist the gods attempt to destroy him by the time they acted, however the gods of magic collaborated to make a prison for Sarasic, inside of which time would stop entirely*.

* basically, the Amber Sarcophagus spell on crack.

Goals

(click to show/hide)

Be set free.
Make a better plan to kill the gods.#
Kill the gods.

# being pun-pun to kill the gods doesn’t work, because they’re already omnificers, so he never even really got into the powerful abilities or any infinities or nigh-infinities before they stopped him.

Dogma
-Seek to free him (duh).
-Seek to subvert the gods (duh).
-Do not tolerate the undead, as they are the tools of the gods (his village was used by a Nerull cult).
-Seek out information, as Knowledge is the gods greatest weapon. Do not hesitate to share this information with other mortals, as This degrades the gods advantage. Do not share knowledge with those that will only use it to serve the gods, as that only empowers the enemy, instead use deception against the enemy wherever possible.


Do you want me to do any more? Do you want to decide the knowledge DC's or me? Stat block? Etc.

so if you try to use Astral Projection or the like to make infinite items

"make infinite"

Is it okay if I use the method to have 1-2 extra copies of my stuff though? Especially my scepters, wands & staffs?

Other than having a "backup stash" so I'm not completely  AFU by a Mordies DJ, it would also expedite helping one another gear up. At least for things we are mutually interested in.

Probably. Dealing with absolutely everybody who uses Astral Projection ever is probably overextending yourself, no matter how powerful you are, so you can probably get away with a backup stash or two.

[sirpercival]

Aye, is there any way I can upgrade the Primordial Giant Invisibility to Greater Invisibility?  I could drop something else... also, they need to be able to see the landscape, so they need see invisibility as well.

[ariasderros]

Aye, is there any way I can upgrade the Primordial Giant Invisibility to Greater Invisibility?  I could drop something else... also, they need to be able to see the landscape, so they need see invisibility as well.

As a suggestion, Wish?

And another several Wishes to make it Superior Invisibility, which is Darkstalker + HiPS on crack.

Seriously, Superior Invisibility.

[sirpercival]

I was thinking that Shadow-Miracled Permanency followed by a Shadow Miracle to make it innate could work on the See Invisibility (with Aye's approval).  I would have to do a number of them so that the original tribe all had the effect, and then hope that they passed it on to their progeny.

Thoughts?

[AyeGill]

I was thinking that Shadow-Miracled Permanency followed by a Shadow Miracle to make it innate could work on the See Invisibility (with Aye's approval).  I would have to do a number of them so that the original tribe all had the effect, and then hope that they passed it on to their progeny.

Thoughts?

Totally doable. Don't know 'bout Greater Invisibility, though. Suppose I'll allow it.

[HeadofVecna]

Unrelated to anything else: I just want to say, illithid underboob is slightly more disturbing than 4e dragonborn having boobs. But only slightly.

Granted, I also just laughed my ass off between the underboob and the "open bar" sign with all the skulls.

As soon as I saw it I knew I had to use that pic. I think it captures the feel of my character nicely, disturbing yet playful, a huge turn off and a little bit of a turn on at the same time.

[sirpercival]

I was thinking that Shadow-Miracled Permanency followed by a Shadow Miracle to make it innate could work on the See Invisibility (with Aye's approval).  I would have to do a number of them so that the original tribe all had the effect, and then hope that they passed it on to their progeny.

Thoughts?

Totally doable. Don't know 'bout Greater Invisibility, though. Suppose I'll allow it.

Another Shadow Miracle to change it to Greater?

OK, so then I'll post up the Nihil shortly.  Do you want the info on Nowhere and the Nihil in this thread, the char sheet thread, the World Info thread, or a thread devoted entirely to our various strongholds? 

More questions.  Genesis adds 180' of radius each time it's cast... since I'm making the castings Invisible, that means I can cast Genesis out of 6th, 7th, and 8th-level slots.  How big should I have the plane be?  It can be pretty enormous, I think... in terms of height and depth, do I have a cylinder or a sphere?

EDIT: Actually, it'll be 360' of radius, since I can Widen it for free thanks to Arcane Thesis.