Author Topic: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion  (Read 13786 times)

Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 02:18:46 AM »
With regards to the UPD changes, the most we can do is nerf it to the 11/day instead of the 11/level/day. It falls in with the Epic Erudite description, which is the closest we have to intent.
Hmm. And suddenly erudite goes from "uber awesome" to "seriously sucks," and it makes PrCing completely nonviable.

How can one small change in wording make such a vast difference in a given class?

Keep in mind that the class was designed with 3.0 Psionics in mind (it was cut for space issues). The Epic progression was added in CP, and didn't reference the original intent of the Erudite. The Lurk's list alone is 78 powers, so there's bound to be enough for all 99 UPD in just the XPH. The real problem is that UPDs are floating. The Erudite is truly spontaneous.

The best fix would be to limit his UPDs to once/power, thus he literally has to use 99 different powers instead of just picking a small group of them to spam all day.
I think that would be considerably better overall, though it does ruin a few specialist PrCs and feats, especially for things like Astral Construct and the constructor PrC.

Though it's interesting how you're both "locking yourself in" and "locking yourself out" of powers you use that way. I do like that a heck of a lot better. If that were the way it was to be done in a houserules errata, I'd also come up with a feat that allowed multiple uses of one or more powers for commonly-used things such as Vigor, Body Adjustment, and Astral Construct.

Plus, it still requires more UPPD at early levels, otherwise you could only use 1 1st level power, and your power point pool would be utterly useless. Maybe allow unlimited use of powers gained via Hidden Talent and Expanded Knowledge (up to your pp limit of course)? Then give it HT out as your 1st level bonus feat instead of Psicrystal Affinity.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 02:20:18 AM by Lycanthromancer »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 02:30:02 AM »
At that point you're deep into homebrew territory.

Having UP/D be the powers that you can only use 1/day kinda invalidates its own purpose. At low levels, it only serves as a replacement limiter for your PP pool (because you can't spend it all). At higher levels, you won't have enough PP to exhaust anywhere near all of your UP/D, so it just serves as an arbitrary and confusing limitation reminiscent of the worst of vancian spellcasting (can't cast any more 1st level powers, all I have are 9th level powers unused).

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2011, 11:55:47 AM »
Yeah, the Erudite itself is kinda beyond the reach of this project. I think we should just stick with informing people that the class is wonky.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2011, 04:23:34 PM »
If Erudite's UPPD is the higher per level per day thingy
it compares somewhat to a Wizard with bonus spells,
but with the potential (at a cost of other "spells") to cast more often.

If you're level 15 and you can Fest  only 8 (or so) 8th level powers,
that's more of a quirk or flavor, than a real class limiter.
The bookkeeping is simple enough.

This makes that +1 Uniques feat less necessary as you level up.
Still near mandatory early.

Errata as just a clarification ... or is that a clair-ification.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 12:42:26 AM »
i happen to have a copy of the actual complete psionic errata file, if anyone is interested.
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Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 02:58:39 PM »
i happen to have a copy of the actual complete psionic errata file, if anyone is interested.

I thought they didn't actually make it?
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 12:15:21 AM »
that is not actually true, as it turns out. the errata was made, and was all ready to go, but due to various... ah... changes over at wotc, it was never put up on the website. however, as some of you may know from my commentaries in the various psionic handbooks, i have an occasional correspondence with various designers and authors of the d&d books. one in particular (think psionics) still had the errata file, and gave it to me in our last exchange. it was his wish that those who use the complete psionic material have access to it. (though he has never been anything but most gracious and kind, i suspect that perhaps i asked him too many questions...  *^^* )

therefore, i have a copy.


concerning the erudite, it is power per day, not per level per day. however, i am seriously considering a houserule that allows prestige that advance the powers known and so forth, also advance the powers per day in the case of an erudite.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 03:13:03 AM by nijineko »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2012, 03:58:31 PM »
hmm ... thinking about Divine Mind and (nerfed/original/rai/errata'd) Ardent
... considering the lineage with them.

If those two were recombined, but didn't get the various Mind's Eye updates,
I think it would work. Kinda like a straight-up gestalt between the two.
The highest level available powers would be wonky.
Effectively 1 full level behind Tier 2s via PsyRef + Expanded Knowledge.
Divine Mind material to make up the difference.
More obviously gish than a Cleric. Frontline auto-buffing to go with it.
More options of where to go, than Beguiler and similar focused full casters.
Feels somewhat like a 4e style Paladin / Leader.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2012, 11:46:33 AM »
finally managed to seed the comp psi errata:

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2872840/3247284/
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https://www.box.com/s/du6s5uysdwfony9dfd3p  The Official Complete Psionic Errata.

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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2013, 05:53:19 AM »
I'm pretty sure that whoever put the lucky enhancement as one of the options available to soulbow didn't remember that you form a new mind arrow each time you fire.  Each new weapon has its own separate 1/day limit, so it becomes 1/attack.  Also, I seriously question the rational for having the returning enhancement as an option.  I'd remove both of those. 

The practiced manifester feat says you don't gain more “powers per day.”  The closest real terms to that are “power points per day” and “unique powers per day.”  I'm convinced that sentence was meant to clarify what an increase to manifester level does, not to alter how the feat functions.  As such, it should say that you don't gain the increase in power points per day indicated on your class table, but you do use your improved manifester level when calculating your bonus power points. 

The original version of erudite (Dragon 319, p46) had separate unique powers per day limits for each level of power.  Could we revert to that?  It's based on 3.5 psionics, and it's actually clear on what it means. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 06:15:43 PM »
I think iirc one of the early on arguments for
the Uniques per level per day, included the:
hey that's what the earlier Erudite did.

Level 15 Wizard with decent Int gets in the
neighborhood of "unique" spells per day
and slots equivalent ppoints, at each level. 
Doesn't have them at quite so ready as
the Erudite.  But don't tell the Wiz fans that.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2013, 11:52:20 PM »
interesting. for me, i find that the up/d/lvl doesn't make sense at the higher levels. if it had been intended that way, they would have capped it at a number closer to the sorcerer spells known per level, i'm thinking.
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Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2013, 01:10:20 PM »
interesting. for me, i find that the up/d/lvl doesn't make sense at the higher levels. if it had been intended that way, they would have capped it at a number closer to the sorcerer spells known per level, i'm thinking.

Actually, 11up/pl/day is fairly close to a Beguiler-esque caster in terms of spells known.

The problem is the Erudite is able to select it's entire spell list spontaneously every day. You may never need more than 30 powers each day if you have a good degree of system mastery, allowing you to keep almost 70 powers on standby for when you really need them.

Edit: Although if you meant the interpretation that gives them 220upd, yeah, I agree with you.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 01:12:40 PM by Sinfire Titan »
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 03:39:56 PM »
Niji, do you have another host for that CPsi errata file?  Your link is dead.

You could probably do it on Dropbox or Google Docs now.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Complete Psionic Errata Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2013, 04:46:53 PM »
yes, yes i do.

should be the same link as in my signature....
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 04:51:22 PM by nijineko »
http://crystalballsoft.com/cblite.html  The best dice roller on the planet, bar none. Read the FAQ to see why.

https://www.box.com/s/du6s5uysdwfony9dfd3p  The Official Complete Psionic Errata.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dbmkg8efcbn4eak/AABSjyTbZIEDdIWm0I_uVFkpa?dl=0 The Archive.