Any interest in a cWoD Mage:the Ascension game?

[brujon]

Shiiiiit, that background wound up a little big... Got carried away lol

[ariasderros]

First, @ Nanshork
I'm already using your D&D template, and now I'll be using your Mage template.
In certain cultures, we'd be married by now.
You're awesome.

Second, @ DM
So what are your thoughts / suggestions / comments of the character pitch / paradigm concept at this point.
I'd just like to know if it's worth pursuing this character into its completion. I have a lot more, it's just that this character was my first thought the first time I read about the mages in Vampire's rulebook.
If what I wrote above wasn't excessive, then I'll just move on to the next concept.
A Violent but Caring Hippy, Shifter Shapeshift Druid, Verbena.

[PipTheBlue]

I came upon 'Totem' as a background trait in the Dreamspeaker guide. Does anyone know what a Totem Spirit is/does? The explanation in the book is quite vague, but it sounds like something I'd want for my character.

I'm thinking of Spirit as main focus.

[Nanshork]

    

Apparently everybody loves my character sheets.  For future reference both my D&D sheet and my Mage sheet are in the thread in my signature.  If you have any other systems you want me to come up with a sheet for, let me know.


Anyways, I'm probably going to go Orphan just because I'm not sure what I want to do.  I'm still working on what spheres I want to look at, I'll probably ask for some advice this weekend.

Edit: I might go Celestial Chorus and be a priest, that could work.  Then again Orphan would explain why I know barely anything about the system and traditions and whatnot.

[ariasderros]

I came upon 'Totem' as a background trait in the Dreamspeaker guide. Does anyone know what a Totem Spirit is/does? The explanation in the book is quite vague, but it sounds like something I'd want for my character.

I'm thinking of Spirit as main focus.

It specifically references that it is the same as that in Werewolf. So for more info, you'd have to go there.

Kind of like how familiars are referenced in the core book, elaborated on in Storytellers Guide, but to actually use them, you'd have to go into Forge.

Freaking White Wolf.

Also, when looking through my friends books (whom I am borrowing this stuff from), I looked through "Infinite Tapestries" briefly.
Please for the love of GOD, let's not do anything pertaining that much to the Umbra. PITA.

EDIT: that's not to say anything against Spirit, it is awesome (assuming you don't summon Navi). Just that the Umbra sucks unless you're a Garou or Changeling.

[littha]

Isn't all magic coincidental in the umbra? As in you wouldn't get any paradox for throwing fireballs and shooting lightning everywhere?

[ariasderros]

Isn't all magic coincidental in the umbra? As in you wouldn't get any paradox for throwing fireballs and shooting lightning everywhere?

Yes.
And in return all you have to worry about is your entire environment being a severe acid trip.
And depending on where you are it can either be a good trip, or a very, very bad trip.

[PipTheBlue]

It specifically references that it is the same as that in Werewolf. So for more info, you'd have to go there.

Screw that, I've wasted a lot of time going through the core Mage book alone. I'll just scrap that idea.

EDIT: that's not to say anything against Spirit, it is awesome (assuming you don't summon Navi). Just that the Umbra sucks unless you're a Garou or Changeling.

Do tell? The examples in the book are mainly about calling spirits and traveling the gauntlet. There's surely more than that to Spirit, right?

[Dictum Mortuum]

@brujon: From what I'm reading you could be an Euthanatos, a Cult of Ecstasy or even a Celestial Chorus (they don't have to believe in god - belief in Fate as a greater power fits like a charm).

Don't get me wrong - there is no wrong paradigm. You just need to help me understand it better.

If your paradigm is that of the divided line, how do you believe that magic happens? It's not how you do it, it's how it is. For instance, a Celestial Chorus might say that he prays to God and makes his prayers true, or a voodoo user might say that he uses the doll as a medium. If you believe the world follows the concept of the divided line, why do you want to stir up its parts?

First, there's This.

I understand the what it is aspect of paradigm, it is the part of the belief that enables the willworker to do magic, many people believe in God, but Chorus members believe themselves to be His agents, His hands and will, thus their belief forms the basis for their magical paradigm.

In my characters case, his belief is his understanding / interpretation of the Socratic and Platonist ideals. The Analogy of the Divided Line in particular is the portent of the ideals that is his medium through which he works his will.

In the Divided line, all things exist. If you conceive of a thing being right in front of you, it is. But if it merely concept, then it is in part DE, if you can bring the it from general concept into an idea of the forms features, then it is part CD, if it is a physical object as-is, then it is in part BC, and if it is not entirely what it seems to most onlookers, then it is because they are observing part AB.

Thus, there is no "stir up its parts", its parts are already there, it just needs to be realized. As I realize that something has another form, or I realize that a thing exists, and that realization makes itself real.

(click to show/hide)

I want a stick of Dynamite from nothing.
1) I imagine that I want something that makes an explosion, at this point, it is nothing more than a general concept without form, thus in line segment DE. Thus I must first "move it" to segment CD by focusing on the nature of the form I wish it to take. It has thus gone from being a Philosophical understanding of what I want and likely need, to being an abstract object, a reasoned form of the object. This would be the first stage, when a Mage focuses his will.
2) I have nothing, thus I must use the essence of concept (Quint) to force it from being just concept to being an actual Physical object. this is where the Roll is made, and if successful, I have managed to move it from segment CD to segment BC.

Thus, with my right hand hidden in a bag, I have summoned a stick of Dynamite into my hand, making it look like I had it in my bag all along, while my left hand moved the slider along my focus, which is basically a slide ruler marked up with the segments (noesis; dianoia; pistis; eikasia), all the while "mumbling" in Attic some proximation of "function begs thought, thought grants form, for we think and thus things are".

(click to show/hide)

Rumpelstiltskin, the Matter 2 example. (In-character, brackets are OOC)
Straw exists, and that is all it is... as far as the Dweller in the Cave know.
1) As I focus, I position my focus's slider at the opposite end, segment AB (eikasia). The straw is false, just an illusion, a shadow of its truth. While there is substance there, it is not being seen for what it is... how nostalgic, that this reminds me of when I was just looking at shadows dancing on the cave's walls myself, before I was brought above {Awakened}. I mentally being to grasp at its reality, that it is gold, fortifying my will, I begin the chant {translated from Attic} "function begs thought, thought grants form, for we think and thus things are".

2) I slowly move the Slider of my focus into the phase of the objects true self, pistis, focusing on the motion of the slider being the same as the straws motion through The Line, from the illusion that it is to the reality that it can be. I force it to be what it is with the mere alteration of my thought. I think, therefor it is, and it is to lose its false form, its illusion fades away, for all to see now the true form of this gold.

Compre ne vous?
ce que bon?

By-the-by, this is just the character pitch, feel free to critique, veto, etc.

Alright, now I'm getting you better. Akashic I presume?

How do i upload my character sheet to the forum? I have done mine, although it'll need some clarification because PDFCreator ate some of the text on the descriptors...

Are you going to upload it or just use Nan's template?

Can a mage believe that an object is doing the work (and he is just controlling its power).

For example, my current idea revolves around a duellist type character, she has a family heirloom sword that she believes has the capability to cut through reality. The sword itself isn't necessarily magic right?

The basic idea is that fate is in the form of an infinite number of stings, joining and splitting infinitely. Each string is a possible path you could take. By cutting the correct strings you could affect the fate of a person or object.

For example, a bullet is flying towards you. You could cut all the strings and probably vanish it out of existence or something silly but that would be exeptionally vulgar and powerful magic, what you would more likley do is cut the string that leads to it hitting you closing that path of possibility off. It might deviate too much and miss, a pigeon could fly past and take the shot or it could ricochet of your sword (which you are swinging) back into the guy who fired it.

Mages are simply people who can see the tapestry of fates and reweave it or cut the threads.


Now to actually figure out which spheres/etc I need for that concept... Time definitely plus possibly entropy?

You wont be able to upload to the forum, it requires moderator approval to do so and I think the current agreement is that nobody is to do it for bandwidth issues.

From what you're describing, it seems to me that the mage does all the work, it's just that he uses his prefered focus (specialized foci exist). You can have items with arete, but that's a whole different story (wonders).

I came upon 'Totem' as a background trait in the Dreamspeaker guide. Does anyone know what a Totem Spirit is/does? The explanation in the book is quite vague, but it sounds like something I'd want for my character.

I'm thinking of Spirit as main focus.

Spirit is a great sphere and has tremendrous versatility, but when dealing with spirits, everything comes at a price

@Umbra: Magic is coincidental "yes" and "no". Because you might do stuff in there and when you come back, reality is going to hit you. Badly However, it's not that bad: remember all - this is going to be an RP-based game - if I send you into the Umbra or you go there, I'm not going to throw you some wicked spirits to battle against, unless you're actively looking for trouble.

@All: Why are you looking all to be orphans ? Your concepts generally fit some of the traditions and it's generally better for you to be a member of them. I know that's the easy thing and just define your point of view and be an orphan, but in essense, no one will care whether you live or die.

Remember that traditions are not like d&d classes; they're not set in stone. Not all choristers are priests for instance; nor cultists are sex-maniacs. Sure, those might exist, but they're not the majority of the traditions.

[PipTheBlue]

I'm actually planning on becoming a Dreamspeaker. About that: does being part of a tradition mean you get to go to a clubhouse, use the jargon and do secret handshakes or is it just mere pigeonholing by paradigm?

[ariasderros]

It specifically references that it is the same as that in Werewolf. So for more info, you'd have to go there.

Screw that, I've wasted a lot of time going through the core Mage book alone. I'll just scrap that idea.

EDIT: that's not to say anything against Spirit, it is awesome (assuming you don't summon Navi). Just that the Umbra sucks unless you're a Garou or Changeling.

Do tell? The examples in the book are mainly about calling spirits and traveling the gauntlet. There's surely more than that to Spirit, right?

You need more? Seriously, Spirits rock. Actually, some of them are rock.
You call up Rock, the rock. You compel him to roll. Ground quakes, people fall down. Sing Ring around the Rosie. Call up Rosie, the Wyldling. We all run like hell. Enemies think they've won. Pissed off Rosie wrecks everything in sight. We are no longer in sight. Just make DAMNED sure you pay Rosie and Rock back.

Alright, now I'm getting you better. Akashic I presume?

@All: Why are you looking all to be orphans ?

While my philosophical basis makes a decent fit for Aka, and a Great fit for certain Hermetic orders, and it would be easier to background everything together as an orphan, I actually hadn't been really looking at what Trad yet. It seems to me that unless you're getting the basis of your belief / paradigm from one of them, or unless you really liked a particular idea for your mentor / allies or other backgrounds, Trad didn't matter much.

Plus, while there are no real rules (and it's an older edition anyway), the Orphan Survival Guide is an awesome read. (Get the feeling my friend has a LOT of these books... and has been throwing them at me at a truly prodigious rate?)

[Nanshork]

I was thinking of being an Orphan because I don't know the system.   

I'll get a character concept up soon and maybe actually pick a tradition.

[PipTheBlue]

You need more? Seriously, Spirits rock. Actually, some of them are rock.
You call up Rock, the rock. You compel him to roll. Ground quakes, people fall down. Sing Ring around the Rosie. Call up Rosie, the Wyldling. We all run like hell. Enemies think they've won. Pissed off Rosie wrecks everything in sight. We are no longer in sight. Just make DAMNED sure you pay Rosie and Rock back.

Hm... interesting. I'm still getting used to this whole roleplaying focused thing of WoD in contrast to D&D's rollplaying. e.g. there's no monster manual for which spirits can be summoned.

[Dictum Mortuum]

I'm actually planning on becoming a Dreamspeaker. About that: does being part of a tradition mean you get to go to a clubhouse, use the jargon and do secret handshakes or is it just mere pigeonholing by paradigm?

It varies from tradition to tradition. For example, Dreamspeakers are quite loose while Order of Hermes have very strict and militaristic ranks. The other traditions fall somewhere between them.

Traditions are like that because their members have something in common in their paradigm, but that 'something' can be so loose and twisted, that some times it doesn't even matter.

@arriasderros: Akashics basically believe that they can make the world better if they make themselves better and Order of Hermes draws from the classical occult practices - both are quite vague to be full-fledged paradigms. They are a base, but one that you'd share, even as an Orphan.

Hm... interesting. I'm still getting used to this whole roleplaying focused thing of WoD in contrast to D&D's rollplaying. e.g. there's no monster manual for which spirits can be summoned.

Actually there is an old book that you can use as a spirit guide, but I'm not telling you which, so that I don't spoil the fun.
But even if you knew the book by heart, I can just make a spirit of my own design, because, obviously, the book is not exhaustive. Because everything has a spirit (ok, almost everything), or a representation in the spirit world.

[ariasderros]

Hm... interesting. I'm still getting used to this whole roleplaying focused thing of WoD in contrast to D&D's rollplaying. e.g. there's no monster manual for which spirits can be summoned.

Actually, it is so heavily role not roll that that is what you get EXP for. Seriously, the more you immerse, the more your character is rewarded, so it doesn't matter: if you can re-weave all of reality pun-pun style if you can't come up with why you're doing so; if you can't even manage to focus enough power to "light a stove or wet one down" if you can play it off, you'll develop the power.

And yeah, the spirits... what the boss said.
Sneeze, and there very well may have been a sneeze spirit that caused it.

@ Dictum, yeah, I've just read the Trad books, so I've got the idea of them, and have had this idea for the character since I heard word one about how Mage worked, just haven't gotten enough of a "feel" for how he got where he is yet to put the pieces together.



EDIT: OHGOD,OHGOD,OHGOD,OHGOD, I just realized......... Nexus Crawlers are Spirits aren't they.... Spirits devoted to the Wyrm.
*crumbles catatonic in corner*
*Iä! Iä! Cthulhu Fhtagn*

[PipTheBlue]

Actually there is an old book that you can use as a spirit guide, but I'm not telling you which, so that I don't spoil the fun.
But even if you knew the book by heart, I can just make a spirit of my own design, because, obviously, the book is not exhaustive. Because everything has a spirit (ok, almost everything), or a representation in the spirit world.

And I thank you for it. My character's a rookie, but has a powerful connection to the spirit world, so at the beginning I'll just yell "Hey you, ethereal dude, a roll of cookies if you fry this guy!" and be more specific onceboth me and my character get the hang of it.

[brujon]

@DictumMortuum: I've already used Nan's character sheet & made my entire character & background. It's in the previous page. I'd like to receive some feedback on both of them... If it's approved, if it's not... I got a lot of flaws, and one of them is DM dependent. I created my nemesis in my background, but his character sheet is up to you i guess. I'm also pretty set on being an Orphan, at least at the start of the game... Celestial Choir doesn't fit because my character hates the church in all of it's inceptions, euthanatos doesn't work because my character has a "happier" view on Fate than they do. Cult of Ecstasy could work, because i'm a thrill-seeker & a fatalist, but i don't want to have any ties at the start of the game, and although i'm not totally opposed to being joined into a tradition, i prefer to join them in game if possible.

[littha]

The cult of ecstasy was actually called the Seers of Chronos before 1867. I think they had slightly different views but I cant find a lot of reference material.

Working on a full list of traditions of that time atm just so I can get my head around it myself.

Entropy: Euthanatoi
Forces: Order of Hermes
Correspondence: Ahl-i-Batin
Time: Seers of Chronos
Prime: Celestial Chorus
Mind: Akashic Brotherhood
Life: Verbena
Matter: N/A
Spirit: Dreamspeakers

[ariasderros]

The cult of ecstasy was actually called the Seers of Chronos before 1867. I think they had slightly different views but I cant find a lot of reference material.

Working on a full list of traditions of that time atm just so I can get my head around it myself.

Entropy: Euthanatoi
Forces: Order of Hermes
Correspondence: Ahl-i-Batin
Time: Seers of Chronos
Prime: Celestial Chorus
Mind: Akashic Brotherhood
Life: Verbena
Matter: N/A
Spirit: Dreamspeakers

Just as in D&D how there is an elf for every occasion, there is a sub-faction for everything.
Order of Hermes being the case in point

(click to show/hide)

House Bonisagi: Prime
House Fortunae: Entropy
House Quaesitor: Mind or Spirit
House Shaea: Time
House Solificati: Matter
House Tytalus: Mind
House Verditius: Correspondence or Matter
Oh and there is duplication of spheres to the Nth degree once you add in the Misc. houses, or the sub houses.

Sure the other Trads aren't as prolific about subgroups, but the point is that if you want a specific combo of tradition and sphere, 95% of the time, it has already been printed.

So yeah, listing the associated sphere is meaningless.
It would be better to divide them by philosophy.

Hermetics: D&D geeks who've made their spells real
Verbena: Druids and Blighters. Tend to be violent about it. Usually violent toward themselves too though.
Dreamspeakers: various aboriginal shamanic religions.
Chourus: Like being schizophrenic, but God is talking to you (just hope it isn't Samedi).
Etc.

[brujon]

What sphere you think is individually the stronger & why? I think my guess would be entropy, just because it has a mind boggling range of application, and it's subtle enough that if you go about it properly, you don't have to worry so much with paradox as say... with forces.