Author Topic: Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 27514 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #80 on: March 02, 2016, 07:59:39 PM »
Quote from: Garryl
Question: Do you control yourself? If you are undead, could you not benefit from Necrotic Frenzy and all those other maneuvers and stances that boost undead under your control? If not, do you just need to cast a Command Undead spell on yourself (which, actually, might not be a bad idea in general to better resist if someone else tries to command you)?

Wait, this is a thing you can do?  I don't know how to feel about that.

I seem to recall something about if multiple casters control the same creature, whoever wins an opposed check (Charisma check?) gets control for the round. So if you magically have control over yourself, you'd get said opposed check if someone manages to charm or dominate you or whatever. I can't remember where I saw it though. It might have been an FAQ, or in the Rules Compendium, or just somewhere in the SRD that I don't remember.

Edit: Found it. It's under Multiple Mental Control Effects.

You don't tell me what to do, I tell me what to do!

 :lmao

This is such a weird idea, casting a dominate spell on yourself so no one else can dominate you. How does that even work? You end up in a recursive loop of "I have to tell myself to act so I can tell myself to act." It's turtles all the way down...  :twitch

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2016, 01:02:23 AM »
I made some small updated to Frozen Night and added the Vasuthant-summoning boost to it. I'm going a little overboard on restatting Bonespikes, too. I'm planning to make a few of them of different varieties. For my immobile bone spires, I'm planning to use the following abilities (adjusted from PoC turrets).

Bunker: Each bone spire has a base of necromantically empowered bone. A spire can extend itself from this base or retract back into it as a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

While retracted, the bone spire like a turtle hiding within its shell, hidden and protected from attack. However, the spire it unable attack or interact with anything outside its base. It has improved cover (+8 to AC, +4 on Reflex saves, and the equivalent of Improved Evasion), hardness 6 (reducing the damage from any source by 6), and takes half damage from all ranged attacks before applying hardness. A DC 20 Spot check is required to notice that the spire's base is more than just a pile of bone. This may increase to 25 or 30 depending on how well the spire's base is hidden or camouflaged within the surrounding terrain. While retracted, other creatures can move through the bone spire's space, but it counts as difficult terrain.

Emplaced: Bone spires are usually built into the surrounding fortifications. Until they are destroyed, they cannot move or be moved from their space separately from the object, vehicle, or structure to which they are attached. Even magical movement and teleportation is ineffective. Some bone spires have a limited ability to move across the surface of the fortification to which they are attached.

Because emplaced bone spires are immovable, certain attack forms function differently against them. An emplaced bone spire cannot be knocked prone. Bull rush, overrun, and trip attempts against them automatically fail. A bone spire can be grappled, but not pinned, and remains grappled only while the grapple remains in its space; consequently, a creature with Improved Grab cannot pull the bone spire into its space and must move into the bone spire's space in order to maintain the grapple. A bone spire cannot be swallowed whole. A bone spire can be engulfed, but only while the engulfing creature occupies its space.

An emplaced bone spire must be animated at the location it is to be emplaced.

An emplaced bone spire attached to a vehicle uses that vehicle's effective Dexterity score or its own, whichever is higher.

This is such a weird idea, casting a dominate spell on yourself so no one else can dominate you. How does that even work? You end up in a recursive loop of "I have to tell myself to act so I can tell myself to act." It's turtles all the way down...  :twitch

Self: Me! Act normally, and try not to drool too much.
Self: Okie dokie!

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #82 on: March 03, 2016, 10:20:56 AM »
Sounds like you've got some interesting ideas with the bonespikes.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2016, 01:24:40 PM »
Bunker: Is it possible to destroy the bunker? Or is it considered part of the creature?

Emplaced: I'm getting the image of a bunch of them attached to the outside of a vehicle flailing away as it drives through things, like an undead version of an Ork Deffrolla.

Also, I'll be taking another pass at The Dead Walk shortly - it needs requirements added, among other things.

Edit: Pass done, requirements added. Unless you two have more suggestions, the only last thing I'm thinking about doing is pulling out the Allegiance X maneuvers and swapping in two replacements.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 01:43:32 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2016, 02:34:18 AM »
Bone spires and the trio of Restless Bones maneuvers that use them are up.

Bunker: Is it possible to destroy the bunker? Or is it considered part of the creature?

Part of the creature.

Quote
Also, I'll be taking another pass at The Dead Walk shortly - it needs requirements added, among other things.

Edit: Pass done, requirements added. Unless you two have more suggestions, the only last thing I'm thinking about doing is pulling out the Allegiance X maneuvers and swapping in two replacements.

I agree with replacing the duration extenders.

I'd also suggest swapping the attack and damage bonuses of Iron Fist of Command (and maybe baking in the lost +5 on minions' attack rolls into the maneuvers that summon them if you were balancing around it). That's a particularly large attack roll bonus, especially compared to the damage bonus (which are usually larger).

The strikes, especially the low-level ones, really need some sort of scaling built in so that they aren't 95% useless at higher levels.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2016, 08:11:42 AM »
Cage of Wicked Bones - As currently constructed, what's the benefit of summoning stinging spires? The only one I can think of is stacking bleeding, but that presumes they can punch through DR, and that you're fighting a creature that can bleed.

Spire/Veil - These strike me as fairly weak, as they both basically replace using an actual strike for that round, but with a possibly lower attack bonus and almost certainly less damage. In addition, they don't have the kind of rider effects that equivalent level strikes do. Bone Puppet vs Veil, for instance.

So, Iron Fist has a deliberately high attack bonus for exactly that scaling reason - at higher levels, using Necrotic Frenzy is clearly better if the initiator is sticking to just the top category of strikes. On the other hand, I could bake in something like "When summoned, the undead receives a bonus on its attack rolls and additional hit points equal to your initiator level minus the maneuver level." Which at least reduces the bonus for the big hitters at the top.

But you're right that the baby monsters are just rubbish by high levels - they don't scale at all right now. I'll keep thinking on how to sort that.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2016, 05:18:30 PM »
Ideas for Boosts to replace Allegiance X:

5th level boost - Undead natural attacks deal damage as if they were one category larger, cause living foes to be shaken on a critical hit, and improved critical for all their natural attacks.
8th level boost - When using an undead-summoning strike, you may use another undead summoning strike of maneuver level half or less (round down).

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #87 on: March 08, 2016, 05:44:35 PM »
Garryl

I like the new maneuvers and have no extra input on the bone spires.


Strat

I am still rolling my eyes at Sacrificial Minion. :p

I think that your undead summoning maneuvers can take a lesson from Garryl's spire maneuvers.

Quote
The lashing spires gain a bonus on their attack rolls and gain additional hit points equal to your initiator level. You can direct them not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions, as part of initiating this maneuver.

Emphasis mine.  A) It will remove all questions about what kind of action it takes to command the undead and what initiative count they act on (I like being as specific as possible, I've seen the madness that comes with any rules that smack of vagueness).  B) It will help with the scaling issue.

I'm iffy on the 5th level boost but I like the concept the 8th level one (offhand unsure of exact balance as written).


Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #88 on: March 08, 2016, 06:29:52 PM »
I think that your undead summoning maneuvers can take a lesson from Garryl's spire maneuvers.

Quote
The lashing spires gain a bonus on their attack rolls and gain additional hit points equal to your initiator level. You can direct them not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions, as part of initiating this maneuver.

I am aware of this. The immediately previous post in the thread includes this: :P

On the other hand, I could bake in something like "When summoned, the undead receives a bonus on its attack rolls and additional hit points equal to your initiator level minus the maneuver level." Which at least reduces the bonus for the big hitters at the top.

Quote
I'm iffy on the 5th level boost but I like the concept the 8th level one (offhand unsure of exact balance as written).

It's the vicious skeleton boost from Libris Mortis' Variant Undead rule, with the Death Master feat effectively swapped in for the Rend special attack, as a number of the summoned undead don't really qualify for Rend. According to WotC, it's worth +1 CR, so about the same as the other boosts I've borrowed from the Variant Undead.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2016, 06:41:30 AM »
Changes made:

Savaging Claws added (5th level)
Death Begets Death added (7th level)
Swelling Corpse moved (5th -> 6th level)

(click to show/hide)

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2016, 07:44:02 PM »
To keep the hijack going...

Thinking the feat would be something like this "You receive a +2 bonus to saves and armour class for each undead monster you have summoned." Debating whether it should add DR as well.

Ideas for a second, tactical, feat - burn move action to move undead, adjacent undead act as bodyguards (see Warchief), if an undead strike kills someone, summon another, much lesser undead, undead can reduce damage dealt to transfer some hp based on damage to you...

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2016, 05:52:45 PM »
So, are you two done?   :p

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2016, 06:15:33 PM »
Nope. Definitely WIP here.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2016, 11:41:21 PM »
I'm done. Well, with this, anyways. I'm doing a little work on ToB for constructs (this having been ToB for undead).

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2016, 10:48:12 AM »
Make a sub-board whenever you're ready for feedback and I'll dig through it.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2016, 06:43:39 PM »
I'm stalled with what's currently there, and until I have more there's no real point in making a dedicated thread for it. I'm still in the searching for ideas stage.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2016, 11:29:42 PM »
Bond of the Dead
Prerequisites: Int 13, one The Dead Walk maneuver
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus to saves and armour class, and damage reduction 2/- for each undead creature you have summoned using a The Dead Walk maneuver. If you have multiple summons, these benefits stack with themselves.

Walk By My Side
Prerequisites: Bond of the Dead, Base attack bonus +6, two The Dead Walk maneuvers
Benefit: The Walk By My Side feat enables the use of three tactical options.
Controlling Hand: By using your move action, an undead creature you have summoned via a The Dead Walk maneuver is teleported from its current position to a square of your choosing, no more than 30 ft from you. The square must be unoccupied, and it must not present any danger to the teleported creature.
Claws of the Undying: If a creature is struck on two consecutive rounds by an undead creature you have summoned via a The Dead Walk maneuver, all subsequent attacks against that creature are treated as if affected by the Improved Critical feat.
Sacrificial Pawn: Once per round, if you are hit by an attack, you may make a DC 15 Reflex save to have that attack affect an adjacent undead creature you have summoned via a The Dead Walk maneuver instead. The attack is treated as though it had hit the chosen undead instead of you, regardless of the undead's Armor Class or any other defensive effects. An undead may not be a sacrificial pawn if it is dazed or otherwise unable to act.

Also updated The Dead Walk general rules.

Finally, thinking of replacing Dessicator's Breath maneuver.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #97 on: May 04, 2016, 10:44:31 PM »
I've cleaned up The Dead Walk a little, moved the feats into it, and am otherwise calling it good and done.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2016, 04:01:37 PM »
Are the Death Knight ACF's going to be finished or scrapped?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2016, 04:36:24 PM »
Are the Death Knight ACF's going to be finished or scrapped?

I might do something with them after I finish/give up on/take a break from Gears of War. It's not a high priority.