Author Topic: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album  (Read 24943 times)

Offline Arz

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 04:11:35 PM »
A suggestion before I info dump; might wanna start an optimization thread to start recollecting all the tricks. Just thinking about this got me a few that I hadn't seen before, some of which I'm popping in the Q&A. Ex:

Elder Giant Magic - Increase caster level by 3, spend action point to cast as standard action, but still have to make 3 concentration checks. Available to giants at first level. See, giants of Xen'drik did build stuff that endures.

Artificer is a 16 level class. Why? Just tell me you can't find 3 dips for your build from this list:
   Cleric, Crusader, DivineMind, Duskblade, Factotum, Erudite, Fighter, Incarnate, Lurk, Marriner, Marshal, Psion, PsychicWarrior, Swashbuckler, Warblade, Warmage, Wizard, WuJen
   And we haven't even talked PrC yet. See where this is going...



Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2013, 03:06:10 AM »
I sincerely doubt any of you can even fathom the level of my rage when I signed up to be a handbook writer to port over all the Artificer stuff from BG  :banghead

Especially the Zeroficer guide (adding in some grammar and spelling fixes)... Dear god, I sincerely doubt how any of you can comprehend this rage... Barbarians ain't got shit on me...

Making it more user friendly might help as well as well as updating it.

After reading the handbook from 1st to last, with a little bit more criticism to it all, some of the text seems contradictory >_>

For example:

Quote from:
Quote from:
Do I really need to know all these spells and metamagic crap to be an artificer?
     
Not really, you simply read this guide, pick the feats I told you, prepare/persist the spells I recommend and you'll do great, but be warned that one of the whole reasons of playing a zeroficer is versatility.

This makes me ask the question of "What versatility is lost in the Artificer taking one metamagic over another?" Thoughts? Anyone mind if that text is adjusted to say the least? At this point, I'm considering just rehashing the entire Handbook from page one. I understand that the Zeroficer guide isn't expected to be the Complete guide to Artificers and is simply supposed to be a singular guild and it's explanations for it from 1-20, however it presents itself entirely differently.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 04:21:45 AM by Arcanist »

Offline nijineko

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 10:40:08 AM »
i think it was a textbook case of scope-creep.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2013, 03:39:26 AM »
Deadthread?  :???

Offline nijineko

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2013, 11:11:59 PM »
probably rl got in the way.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 06:32:18 PM »
(oh right the other thread too)


Hey go for it.  I hack-ported over that Borg
Zero stuff, above.  I've no real expertise,
more curiosity toward the PsiArty (??).
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2013, 09:48:19 AM »
(oh right the other thread too)


Hey go for it.  I hack-ported over that Borg
Zero stuff, above.  I've no real expertise,
more curiosity toward the PsiArty (??).

Hmm... The PsyArty is pretty friken awesome as far as Artifice goes. In my personal opinion, I'd prefer a PsiArty over a standard Artificer if I the DM is okay with metamagic to metapsionic conversion so I can get Persistent Power and the such.

Another painful thing is that you gain Craft Psionic Construct, despite there only being two such constructs and only one of them is even constructable. Craft Cognizance Crystal doesn't really effect the PsyArty that much, Dorjes are what you are really here for in that they are more durable than wands, can contain higher level spells and if memory serves can be recharged using a certain power (not sure where, tell me if you remember it!).

Psionic Tattoos are potions that you can keep on your body should the worst occur in that they cannot be taken away from you, Imprint Crystals are just Psionic Scrolls that you can string up to make a pretty necklace, earrings, other kinds of Jewelery, Universal Items are like Wondrous Items so that is always nice, Psycrowns are like Staffs except they make you look more pimp.

The most painful thing though is the Cognizance crystal replacing craft rod. Rods are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better for an Artificer than the Cognizance crystal.

If you want to do the fully Psionic Artificer conversion, give the Artificer all his Infusions known as normally, and give them the Psy Warrior power progression.

The Psyartificer is tragically trading Divine spells for Psionics ultimately considering that the Psyarty can just access the StP Erudites list which includes all Wizard/Sorcerer spells... Ewww... Thinking back it is losing MUCH more than that... It loses access to Divine spells, Bard Spells, Trapsmith spells, a lot of those early grab bag spells and ultimately you are trading it all away for Psionics.

... Reading this back to myself I remember that I was trying to make the ACF look more appealing, but dear god is it just awful  :blush

Offline Arz

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2013, 12:48:57 PM »
The main advantage it has is for warforged, since a large segment of powers are just better for them. Also Transdimensional power is a +0 metapsionic. Oh, and a swath of good melee buffs.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 12:30:17 AM »
i'm playing a warforged psi-artificer right now.

might want to be sure to include the newish transparency rules about psi-magic crafting from the rules compendium. also, you will want to link to my Master Psionic List with all the 3.5 powers in the game, plus some 3.0 that was not included in 3.5.

i actually just took the craft construct feat as a bonus feat and use psi-equivs for the prereqs. which should also work with craft psi construct feat, btw.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2013, 02:15:07 AM »
The main advantage it has is for warforged, since a large segment of powers are just better for them. Also Transdimensional power is a +0 metapsionic. Oh, and a swath of good melee buffs.

This is very much true! I'll make sure to make note of the the Warforged Artificer Racial Substitution levels.

I disagree with most in saying that one should take all the Racial sub levels. The 5th level one, just doesn't seem worth it considering the lose of Retain Essence (which in my experience is friken awesome for breaking down those crappy randomly obtained magical items for something much better).

i'm playing a warforged psi-artificer right now.

might want to be sure to include the newish transparency rules about psi-magic crafting from the rules compendium. also, you will want to link to my Master Psionic List with all the 3.5 powers in the game, plus some 3.0 that was not included in 3.5.

i actually just took the craft construct feat as a bonus feat and use psi-equivs for the prereqs. which should also work with craft psi construct feat, btw.

What page is the transparency rules on? I'll need to look over your list before I jump the gun on it.

The PsyArty has it's ups and downs (mostly downs), but I don't want to paint it as an awful ACF beyond it removing the a hot majority of the delicious broken stuff that is the Artificer... The Artificer still remains T1 despite the alterations that the PsyArty gives it, but it requires more unconventional means to be as powerful as a standard Artificer.

... I am awful with words >_>

Offline nijineko

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2013, 02:24:17 PM »
oh, wait, i said rules compendium... i meant magic item compendium.

page 232: Psionics and Crafting Magic Items sidebar.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2013, 12:37:48 AM »
oh, wait, i said rules compendium... i meant magic item compendium.

page 232: Psionics and Crafting Magic Items sidebar.

Quote from: PSIONICS AND CRAFTING MAGIC ITEM
Many of the items in this book can also be created by a character with the appropriate psionic item creation feat. For the purpose of meeting item prerequisites, a character who has the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat is treated as having Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Likewise, a character who has Craft Universal Item meets the feat prerequisite for items that require Craft Wondrous Item. If an item includes a spell prerequisite, but the effect of the item does not directly implement that spell, then a psionic power of similar flavor can be substituted. If the item replicates a spell effect, then only the psionic version of that spell or a psionic power that replicates the same effect can be used to sat­isfy the prerequisite. For example, a character can create a helm of teleportation using psionic teleport as a power prerequisite, or energy burst as a power to create a necklace of fireballs. The prerequisites of some items, such as the eldritch blast required for gauntlets of eldritch energy, have no psionic equiva­lent, and so cannot be created by a psionic character without the aid of a character who does meet the requirement. If you are using the Psionics Is Different variant (EPH 65), then an item created by a psionic character using a psionic item creation feat would be a psionic item. The guidelines given above should be used to determine the psionic item's feat and power prerequisites.

Oh this will most definitely been included...  :plotting

Offline nijineko

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2013, 10:38:39 AM »
most artificer and crafting threads also forget the item crafting rules for large items as well.

stronghold builders guidebook lists the cost of crafting large, bulky, but technically still movable items (statuary, certain monuments, and other non-fixed foundation things) at SL(or PL) x CL(or ML) x 1000, and the cost of crafting immobile items that are a building or are parts of buildings (ie: cannot be moved or removed without destroying the magic and possibly the structure too) at SL(or PL) x CL(or ML) x 500. (note that this "mobility" requirement is completely unrelated to the relative mobility of the stronghold it is embedded into.)

which compared to other methods of crafting permanent items (usually SL x CL x 2000 x duration multiplier in the table) is really cheap. it is 3.0 material though, so ymmv.



my personal favorite use of these rules is to take a folding boat (DMG p249) and noting that it counts as a pinnace (Stormwrack p60) and the sizes listed fall within the volume of 1 stronghold space (SBG p8) and that 1 stronghold space does not strictly have to remain a 20x20x10' shaped volume, but can be a volume of any shape about said dimensions (SBG p8) i can turn the folding boat into my stronghold. a pinnace can cram up to 15 people into 1 ss. i'm pretty sure that assumes sailors on a three rotating shifts for 24 hour coverage of the boat, so not everyone is sleeping at the same time... plus 'other crew', like the party. but see below.

i can expand the internal spaces by using holes of hiding and magnificent mansion or magnificent caravel, and add fun mobility options like flying, submerging, teleporting, planeshifting and so forth. on mine, i paid extra to have two folding masts with lateen sails installed, one on each side so that they can fold out and down for when we're in flying mode, and fold up into the side of the boat otherwise.

have one character snag leadership and pick up a few experts for sailors, another character snag the landlord feat, and we are cooking with grease. get every member of the party to get the landlord feat, and you are cooking with jet fuel.


and speaking of jet fuel, and going fast in general, check this out:

find a plane in your cosmology that has the flowing time trait. use anchor plane, or planar bubble, or a couple of other tricks - on or near the center of your stronghold linked to that plane. if you are using a folding boat, the dimensions of the boat will fall within the radius of most of these effects. everything within the flowing time trait which has now been applied to the area of space-time experiences multiple rounds within the area of effect compared to the rate of the flow of time in the area outside the area of effect... so let's say that the ratio is 10:1, or 10 rounds inside the area of effect compared to 1 round outside. say your stronghold can move at 10 miles per hour... with the time dilation your stronghold is now moving at 100 miles per hour. ^^

if the time dilation ratio is severe enough, you'll find yourself breaking the sound barrier... or maybe even the light speed barrier.... ^^



of course there is that little issue with aging. but, there are a few ways around even that - there's an immortality handbook around here somewhere.

oh, and about that above quote, be sure to check out my master psionics list to find a listing of just about every official power in the entire game. some dms may even let you combine psionic powers in order to meet the effects of a spell - for example: there is no magnificent mansion effect in psionics, but if you use psychoportative shelter (equivalent to rope trick) , psionic unseen servant (yes, there is such a power... or you could use astral construct, i suppose), psionic creation, and psionic fabricate; you've covered all the points of magnificent mansion. or just pay the cost of the spell, plus the npc casting cost for every day of the construction. (if you do the latter, make sure you calc the cost of just adding the spell, to figure out how many days that part of it will take, as opposed to the entire thing all in one go).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:55:52 AM by nijineko »

Offline Arz

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2013, 02:54:39 PM »
I disagree with most in saying that one should take all the Racial sub levels. The 5th level one, just doesn't seem worth it considering the lose of Retain Essence (which in my experience is friken awesome for breaking down those crappy randomly obtained magical items for something much better).

Beg to differ on this point; Retain Essence = Stealing Treasure.

What I mean by that is you are gaining xp (1/25 of treasure value) and losing all the magic item gp value. Though smart DM will still give you a masterwork item. Frankly, xp is cheap but gp is truly GOLD.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2013, 04:26:26 PM »
I disagree with most in saying that one should take all the Racial sub levels. The 5th level one, just doesn't seem worth it considering the lose of Retain Essence (which in my experience is friken awesome for breaking down those crappy randomly obtained magical items for something much better).

Beg to differ on this point; Retain Essence = Stealing Treasure.

What I mean by that is you are gaining xp (1/25 of treasure value) and losing all the magic item gp value. Though smart DM will still give you a masterwork item. Frankly, xp is cheap but gp is truly GOLD.

"While I disagree with your opinion, I will fight to the death for it!"
-Voltaire

No idea why I decided to say that, but It oddly feels appropriate.

Anyway! Retain Essence is the cannibalism of unnecessary magical items to add to your Crafting reserves. I agree that most people would say that XP is a river, however in actual campaign play... ehhhh, Not so much (in fact, this varies from campaign to campaign). Sure I will include Alternatives to XP spending (Souls, Dark XP, Dark Gold, Demon Mastery, etc.), but I will not assume that XP is an infinite resource for the party. Instead I will assume that the DM is giving levels rather than actual XP to keep in line with the notion of "Thou shall not lose a level"

I will also include this spell as well.

The reason I believe (yes, this is an opinion and I will NOT deny that) that Retain Essence is useful is because it allows us to take the XP of a magical item of our equivalent level to create a more appropriate, and perhaps more useful, item. When I play an Artificer, I exploit the shit out of the Crafting Rules and use Homunculi to make a Ford Assembly line for items to craft items almost instantly. I am considering including such an assembly line in the handbook as for an idea for exploiting WBL into oblivion.

EDIT: I've no idea why I keep saying "I will" since I don't remember stating that I would actually make a singular Artificer Handbook. I'd like to see someone Else's work and improve upon it... I'm not Nikola Tesla... As far as ideas go, I'm more like Thomas Edison...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:15:55 PM by Arcanist »

Offline Arz

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2013, 04:23:02 PM »
I'm unhappy to admit that to many scars from cheap DMs. Even so only about 30% of the time have situations been more beneficial to retain essence over resell. Though every player looked at me like a dirty louse those 3 times this occurred. That's all personal experience.

Weapon familiar as replacement is a limiting choice, since it is only helpful to melee-artificers.

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2013, 04:47:45 PM »
I'm unhappy to admit that to many scars from cheap DMs. Even so only about 30% of the time have situations been more beneficial to retain essence over resell. Though every player looked at me like a dirty louse those 3 times this occurred. That's all personal experience.

The DM I am currently with gives out XP at the end of the day and rewards us with magical items and mundane items as well during our adventure. In such a campaign like this, it would be perfectly reasonable to swap out Retain Essence because you are getting XP as a flow rather than as a sum (in the form of levels).

I believe it should also include the notion of BOTH of these situations. Pending on which situation is the standard details how relevant your craft reserve shall enter play.

Weapon familiar as replacement is a limiting choice, since it is only helpful to melee-artificers.

Total agreement. Generally if you are playing a Meleeficer you are going to be a Warforged. Anyone got any ideas for adding a metamagic to the creatures attack?

Offline Arz

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2013, 02:48:11 PM »
Total agreement. Generally if you are playing a Meleeficer you are going to be a Warforged. Anyone got any ideas for adding a metamagic to the creatures attack?
What critter?

Offline Arcanist

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2013, 04:01:45 AM »
Total agreement. Generally if you are playing a Meleeficer you are going to be a Warforged. Anyone got any ideas for adding a metamagic to the creatures attack?
What critter?

I herped. I meant "Warforged's"

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Proposed Handbook: The Advanced Artificer's Album
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2013, 01:04:39 AM »
Check out bonus feats for how the artificer just got more powerful
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