Author Topic: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper  (Read 8602 times)

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« on: September 01, 2012, 09:28:52 AM »
Note: The Count here, just trying to preserve an optimization classic.

The following build is for a Fighter-20, who specializes in "gatling gun attack" tactics. Meaning, she's maxed-out her total attacks per round (7), in addition to gaining feats that grant her multiple attacks when engaged in AoO tactics. Key feats to accomodate this style of warfare are: Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Side Step, & Double Hit/TWF. Fighter-20 was used in lieu of a multi-classed build in order to cram as many of the neccessary feats as possible into the early & mid levels. This character concept would like more than 18 feat slots in 20 levels, but with WotC D&D material, it ain't possible. The important stats for this build are DEX & STR, with an INT of 13 as well. CON, surprisingly, is not as important as it looks. Especially once you get the feat Side Step which prevents many full-attack options being used by your foes. DEX is high for Combat Reflexes, Finesse, & Double Hit/TWF. It just had more synergy than going the STR-first route.

The build starts off with an emphasis on tripping, one of the more potent melee combatant tactics in 3.5. The ascent in levels is intended on accumulating multiple/additional attacks, to be used either as damage attacks or in conjunction with my foundation of trip-feats. The weapon that best suits this strategy is the Chain or Blunt Chain Link (found in OA & in Savage Species). The Chain is a mirror image of the Spiked Chain except that it does 1d6 damage, can be fought with either THF w/10' reach *or* TWF 1d6/1d6. Ergo, I had to spend an EWP feat to pick up use of the Chain. Please note, Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization feats are not desirable in this build. Once you get polymorphed and/or buffed, those attack & damage bonuses will be less emphatic anyway. This build needs feats that grant extra attacks and special attacks, something magic items & spells can rarely give you.

The addition of the TWF feat chain gives flexibility to the build, although you now fight without 10' reach. TWF has amazing synergy with the Double Hit feat and in situations where you can Karmic Strike, then Side Step 5' to remove yourself from a full-attack option from one of your foes. That Double-Hit Karmic Strike set of AoO's can then be used as 1 or 2 trip-attempts if you so desire. Imagine if that first Double Hit AoO succeeds at tripping - you then get another attack on that target in addition to the 2nd attack of your Double Hit AoO. The way combinations work, you almost *want* your opponent to hit you. And with Fighter HD, you're pretty well protected. At level 12 & higher, this combination of feats, if played right, can completely prevent any full-attack options by your opponents!

Combat Expertise at +4 AC/-4 TH also combines well with Deft Opportunist. If you have Enlarge Person cast on you, your 20' Reach becomes a massive kill/trip zone with Deft Opportunist.

Now, normally, TWF combat is sub-optimal for a non-Rogue. For this Fighter, TWF works great, because in lieu of Sneak Attack dice, you have Tripping & Double Hit opportunities. You can see this build is not about Barbarian-like damage dealing, it's all about battlefield control and defense. The defensive aspect kicks in once you get the Side Step feat at level 12. Level 12 means you should rarely ever have to deal with full-attacks from most opponents any more. And note, if you really want to make this build sing, attach the following magical properties to your primary Chain head:

1. Knockback (+3 Bonus)[MoF]
2. Sweeping (+1 Bonus)[MoF]
3. Screaming (+1 Bonus)[MoF]

Here's the build:

Hu= Jotenbrud
01= EWP: Chain (Combat Expertise)
02= (Imp. Trip)
03= Combat Reflexes
04= (Weapon Finesse)
05=
06= TWF (Imp. TWF)
07=
08= (Dodge)
09= Karmic Strike
10= (Mobility)
11=
12= Side Step (Double Hit)
13=
14= (Greater TWF)
15= Deft Opportunist
16= (Spring Attack)
17=
18= Knock-Down (Power Attack)
19=
20= (Hold The Line)

Feat Notes:
•Jotenbrud is included for its +4 to Trip attempts. The feat becomes optional if you feel you can get consistent Enlarge Person spells from your party spellcasters. Even so, it's good to have an intrinsic ability like this in Dispel Magic-heavy environments.

•Power Attack comes into the picture rather late. This is due to it being a damage-oriented feat, and not a primary focus. Besides, it works better at higher levels when your super-highly-buffed STR gives you better Power Attacking options.

•Whirlwind Attack is not a good feat for this build. Tactically savvy DM's never give you an opportunity to use it anyway.

•Imp. Initiative & Imp. Disarm never made it into the build, unfortunately. Imp. Initiative can be had via a magic item (can't recall the name at the moment).


Now, an optional variant to this build removes 4 levels of Fighter for 1 level of Knight of the Middle Circle (Combat Sense +2, Blindfight) & 3 levels of Exotic Weapon Master (Flurry, Trip Attack, & Twin Ex. Weapon Fighting). But this entails taking away 2 feats. Admittedly, this variant is stronger than Fighter-20, but I posted Fighter-20 up first because, well, I wanted to make a Fighter-20 build that actually looks unique.

Anyway, I hope someone finds it interesting. I'd love some feedback, constructive criticisms, suggestions for improvement, etc.

XO,
Snow
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:30:41 PM by 123456789blaaa »
Please, call me Count :).

Offline midnight_v

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 11:54:20 AM »
We really need a permanent preserved thread, don't we?

Thanks for this oldie but goody.  :clap
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Offline caelic

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 11:59:23 AM »
Maybe an "Iconic Builds Handbook?"  That would be nice to have for the (frequent) occasions when someone asks "What's Pun-Pun?" or "What's an Uttercold Assault Necromancer?"

Offline midnight_v

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 12:01:32 PM »
Maybe an "Iconic Builds Handbook?"  That would be nice to have for the (frequent) occasions when someone asks "What's Pun-Pun?" or "What's an Uttercold Assault Necromancer?"
Yeah, exactly like that. We just need a curator. I ported a bunch of things over but basically a refreshed and revised "surrealdex",
but ultimatley yes.
The Iconic Build handbook.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 01:12:29 PM »
The problem is, there are a ton of iconic builds.  I dunno.  How long does something need to be around for it to be iconic?  Like, does Hood count at this point?
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Offline caelic

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2012, 02:01:32 PM »
I would say that it has a lot more to do with how memetically-successful the build is than how long it's been around.  Presently, if you don't know what Hood is, then a lot of discussions about melee combatants aren't going to make sense to you, because the participants take it for granted that you know what Hood is, and discuss a lot of other builds using Hood as the benchmark.  So, yes, I'd say that it definitely qualifies.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 02:13:15 PM »
Meanwhile, very few people know about my Necrosinger, so it doesn't count.  Works, I think.
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Offline midnight_v

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 07:29:00 PM »
I would say that it has a lot more to do with how memetically-successful the build is than how long it's been around.  Presently, if you don't know what Hood is, then a lot of discussions about melee combatants aren't going to make sense to you, because the participants take it for granted that you know what Hood is, and discuss a lot of other builds using Hood as the benchmark.  So, yes, I'd say that it definitely qualifies.
+1

and a vote up.

Everyone should know what the Gatling tripper, the king of smack, and the hood are.

Though really we can likely include a few others.
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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2012, 07:47:35 PM »
So should I stop porting over builds then?
Please, call me Count :).

Offline caelic

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2012, 11:28:43 PM »
Meanwhile, very few people know about my Necrosinger, so it doesn't count.  Works, I think.


It does seem to work out that way a lot.  Jack B Quick and the Supermount aren't even close to being my favorite builds, but they're the ones everyone remembers.

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2012, 11:29:03 PM »
So should I stop porting over builds then?


I'd say go for it; why not?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2012, 11:31:40 PM »
I think it might be worthwhile to differentiate also between builds which are built to a Concept (this one, Hood, etc.) and those which are built to an Exploit (Pun-Pun, Necrosinger, Chuck, etc.).  The former will likely be more useful for general optimization advice, while the latter will often get banned.
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Offline caelic

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2012, 12:14:59 PM »
I think it might be worthwhile to differentiate also between builds which are built to a Concept (this one, Hood, etc.) and those which are built to an Exploit (Pun-Pun, Necrosinger, Chuck, etc.).  The former will likely be more useful for general optimization advice, while the latter will often get banned.



Agreed; we should definitely draw a line between the practical and the theoretical.  Maybe a five-wedge scale of cheesiness.

Offline Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2012, 01:15:14 PM »
Perhaps differencing between Caster and Melee builds?

Other Iconic builds that I think should be added are the Killer Gnome, The Other Killer Gnome... The Nasty Gentleman?

Offline midnight_v

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2012, 02:21:47 PM »
Perhaps differencing between Caster and Melee builds?

Other Iconic builds that I think should be added are the Killer Gnome, The Other Killer Gnome... The Nasty Gentleman?

Hmm... I'd like to see the Black Octopus, The Feral Dreadlord, and The Bardic Badass
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Offline Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2012, 03:39:37 PM »
Of those three I only recognize the Feral Dreadlord. 

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2012, 03:59:27 PM »
Of those three I only recognize the Feral Dreadlord.

I only recognize the black octopus
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Offline midnight_v

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 09:04:39 AM »
Right, and because of the above two posts, I kinda feel like we should all kinda know the same stuff.
The Black Octopus: Was a build by Shakuvm, that used  Warmind/Warblade/BlackBladeCultist/Primeval:
Oh hell here it is:
(click to show/hide)
I almost played this in a game the tarrasque extermination force, which sadly never got off the ground. Like most level 20 builds however, it doesn't even so much exist to get PLAYED so much as to inspire, and show how some of the interactions work together.

The Feral Dreadlord was by Tlexia_Ghola
Is still available right here:

The Feral DreadLord

The Reason why I think both of them deserve being saved for posterity, much like The king of smack and the hood and a few other others like the humble horizon tripper... I think is because of the excellent description and information build they provide.

The bardic badass Was simple Dragonfire inspiration optimization but used Song of the White Raven to give full manuver progression as well.

Within these builds exist the building blocks and examples of optimization similar to TheGatlingGun, JackBQuick, and others.

There was a buidl that was very fond of in the compilation of low level builds called "The lovecraftian Psychic warrior" by Maat Mons.
  It used the illithid feats to give you 4 tentacle attacks in addition to whatever else you were doing, which became a really big deal as a psywar/warblade. Precognition, and Punishing stance = lots of win.
I say that to say it isn't even just the demense of high level builds either.
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Offline caelic

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 09:52:10 AM »
So the question is: who's willing to be point man and actually set up the handbook?  Given that tomorrow is the first day of a new school year, I'm going to be pretty busy for the next couple of months getting to know my students.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Snow_Savant"s Fighter-20: The "Gatling Chain Gun" Tripper
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 09:58:07 AM »
Other than a few things like the Nasty Gentleman, Pun-Pun, the Twice Betrayer, and Nanobots, I don't know most of these builds (plus my google-fu generally sucks), so I wouldn't be able to contribute very much.
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.