Author Topic: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert  (Read 7250 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« on: November 09, 2012, 01:32:44 PM »
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LEY ENGINEER



My lord! You wished for a mountain?  Well... there you have it.

A ley engineer taps into ever-present flows of magical energy called ley lines, drawing upon them to cause short- and long-term alterations to her surroundings.  Ley engineers are coveted and hotly pursued for their ability to quickly and efficiently raise fortifications and earthworks, or even mountains and rivers to alter the enemy's advance.  Invading armies almost alway seek to take the opposing side's ley engineers prisoner, putting them to work at dismantling pesky obstacles like castles and ships.

Adventures: A Ley Engineer can often be found adventuring to explore various territories, mapping out terrain and ley lines for future reference.  In addition, many Ley Engineers seek out examples of natural geographic features, cunning traps, magnificent architecture, and historical accounts of great battles, looking for ideas for future Plans.  Some Ley Engineers might be itinerant mercenaries, hired to help this or that petty king build a larger castle, or make this or that warlord's stronghold more impregnable.

Characteristics: A Ley Engineer is the undisputed master of the flow of combat.  By controlling the terrain, fortifications, morale, and even physical laws of the battlefield, the Ley Engineer steers enemies into ambushes and choke points, or guides allies to the high ground.  If no high ground is to be found, she simply creates some on the spot.  Using her schematic Plans prepared in advance, the Ley Engineer can draw upon the Ley energy around her to Deploy them at a moment's notice if necessary, small-scale changes to help in a single skirmish.  However, given enough time and good enough maps, she may also fully Realize her Plans over a matter of minutes, causing major alterations to the landscape: building castles from a pile of unworked stone; laying a field of booby traps for an encroaching force to fall upon; or even calling a mountain from the depths of the earth.

Alignment: Some Ley Engineers seek to help others by creating shelter, improving natural defenses, or altering the terrain to increase the fertility of farmland.  Others build mighty strongholds of their own, where they raise armies and take apart their opponents' fortresses with a mere thought.  Most Ley Engineers tend towards lawfulness, as they plot and plan ahead, seeking to create order from the organic chaos of nature, or at the very least to survive the education and training that becoming a Ley Engineer requires; however, the occasional chaotic Ley Engineer can be found among the anarchists who seek to overthrow all governments and topple the infrastructure.

Religion: Many Ley Engineers revere no deities at all -- their own intellect, perception, and ability to reshape the world can be rather a boost to the ego.  Those that do offer up obeisance and praise to the divine tend to find common ground with deities of Craft and Artifice; other Ley Engineers might connect well with deities of the natural world, through their intuitive understanding of ley lines and geography.

Background: Becoming a Ley Engineer requires a significant investment of time and mental energy at a university, military school, or other training facility.  An aspiring Ley Engineer must train her mind and her senses, becoming aware of her surroundings in a more fundamental and all-encompassing way than she could have imagined possible, and then learning to process that sensory information with rapidity, foresight, and deadly efficiency.  Such training is long and arduous, and only those with sufficient mental focus and fortitude can hope to succeed.

In addition, to receive the necessary education, it must first be available.  Most academies large and prestigious enough to train Ley Engineers are based in populous, likely cosmopolitan areas, and are often quite expensive, even for those (and sometimes especially for those) who have undeniable talents in this area.  This means that a Ley Engineer must find her way to the big city and finance her education somehow, whether through aristocratic birth, backbreaking labor during the night to pay for room, board, and classes, or by the subsidy of a foreign power who will lay claim to her services after her schooling is complete.

Races: Academies which train Ley Engineers can look for a number of different qualities in prospective applicants: above-average perception and intellectual aptitudes; long lifespan for handling the years of training; penchant for handicraft, working with materials, and ingenuity; strong and deep connections with nature, for searching out and drawing upon ley lines; and a strong educational basis.  Few races possess all of these traits at once, and so the ranks of the Ley Engineers are made up of equal measures of humans, dwarves, gnomes, elves, and half-elves, with a sprinkling of warforged, kobolds, planetouched, and killoren to round it out.

Other Classes: Though Ley Engineers can be egotistical and demanding of others, most other classes appreciate the benefits that a happy and healthy Ley Engineer can bring to any endeavor.  Ley Engineers tend to engage in mutual dislike of wizards, archivists, and artificers, mostly due to academic rivalries between the departments which were ingrained during training, but work well with almost every other class.  Any Ley Engineer too pigheaded to recognize the value even of their rivals in difficult situations is unlikely to live very long.

Role: A Ley Engineer is a skilled and capable battlefield controller, and can amplify her allies' abilities not only tactically, but, with some of her Plans, directly as well.  Though a Ley Engineer is mostly trained for large-scale conflicts, the principles she learns can be applied to skirmishes, dungeon crawls, and other situations quite easily.  In addition, due to the requisite broad and thorough education, a Ley Engineer can also act as a party's repository of knowledge.

Adaptation: In some campaigns, Ley Engineers might instead become shamans, repositories of knowledge in a more primitive society with strong oral traditions, who shape the world around them to protect and aid the tribes they lead.  In another, a Ley Engineer might be a semi-divine being who wields the power of the creators of the multiverse, molding reality in her own image.  If the setting has a much higher science and technology level than traditional high-magic fantasy, a Ley Engineer might not draw upon the power of ley lines, but instead use nanobots, transporters, and gravity generators to terraform planets.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Ley Engineers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: A ley engineer relies on Wisdom to seek out and draw upon ley lines, Intelligence to construct and deploy Plans, and Constitution and Dexterity to stay alive in the heat of battle.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6
Starting Age: As wizard.
Starting Gold: As wizard.

Class Skills
The Ley Engineer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int)*, Disable Device (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

*Note: a Ley Engineer may gain ranks in Craft (Alchemy) despite not technically being a spellcaster.

Skill Points at First Level: (8 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier

LEY ENGINEER


Level
Base
Attack
Bonus

Fort
Save

Ref
Save

Will
Save


Special


Pulse
1st+0+0+0+2Draw ley, plans (deploy)1
2nd+1+0+0+3Flare pulse, specialty1
3rd+1+1+1+3Plans (realize)2
4th+2+1+1+4Channel ley2
5th+2+1+1+4Specialty2
6th+3+2+2+5True artistry3
7th+3+2+2+5Portfolio3
8th+4+2+2+6Specialty3
9th+4+3+3+6Improved deployment4
10th+5+3+3+7Improved recovery4
11th+5+3+3+7Specialty4
12th+6/+1+4+4+8Rapid realization5
13th+6/+1+4+4+8Improved portfolio5
14th+7/+2+4+4+9Specialty5
15th+7/+2+5+5+9Improved flare6
16th+8/+3+5+5+10Coalesce ley web6
17th+8/+3+5+5+10Specialty6
18th+9/+4+6+6+11Speedy recovery7
19th+9/+4+6+6+11Greater portfolio7
20th+10/+5+6+6+12Specialty, speedy realization7

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Ley Engineer.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A ley engineer is proficient with simple weapons, and with light and medium armor (but not shields).

Draw ley (Su): A ley engineer learns to tap into the energy carried by ever-present ley lines -- currents of focused magical energy which crisscross the surface of the world.  Ley lines are everywhere, following the roll and swell of hills and valleys, sinking deep within cavern systems to plunge through underground rivers, and originating atop breathless mountains to pour out over the plains.  By drawing on this reservoir of power, a ley engineer can impose her will on the world, shaping the surroundings as she sees fit to alter the flow of a battle or war.

The rippling energy of ley lines fills a ley engineer with Pulse, which she uses to deploy or realize her Plans (see below).  At any given time, a ley engineer has an amount of pulse as shown on the table above.  This baseline amount of pulse can change due to the ley engineer's class features (see Flare Pulse, Channel Ley, and Coalesce Ley Web, below), but without such intervention a ley engineer's quantity of pulse is static.

Plans (Su): The heart of a ley engineer's power is her ability to prepare and use Plans, supernatural blueprints which help her enact changes on her environment to control the layout and properties of the battlefield.

A ley engineer knows all Plans on her class list (detailed below).  To make use of a Plan, she must first design it, which requires 10 minutes of preparation per required pulse, and one or two appropriate Knowledge checks, depending on the details of the particular Plan.  At any given time, the ley engineer may have a number of designed Plans equal to her Intelligence modifier.

Once the ley engineer has designed her Plans, she may utilize them in one of two ways.  At 1st level, the ley engineer may Deploy a plan, which requires a standard action.  This requires that she spend an amount of pulse determined by the particular Plan she is deploying; if she does not, the Plan is not deployed and the action is wasted.  If she has the requisite amount of pulse available, the Plan takes effect, causing whatever alterations to the engineer's surroundings that the Plan was designed to create.  Deploying a Plan consumes it; to use that particular Plan again, she must design a new one.  Pulse spent in this way returns automatically the next round.

Beginning at 3rd level, a ley engineer may choose to Realize a Plan instead of Deploying it.  Realizing a Plan requires that the ley engineer spend 10 minutes per scope category of the effect she wants to achieve studying the terrain and ley lines of the area in which she intends the Plan to take effect.  This study may be performed at any time, either surveying in person or perusing sufficiently good maps and notes; once an area has been studied, the ley engineer may realize the chosen Plan in that area at any time within a number of days equal to her Wisdom modifier before she needs to study again.

Once the area has been studied, the ley engineer (while within the area) spends a move action to begin the realization.  Beginning on the round when she begins the realization, the effects of the realized Plan begin at the ley engineer's location and spreads outward, filling one scope category every minute until the Plan is fully realized.  The ley engineer must spend a move action every round until the Plan has been fully realized, and must spend the requisite amount of pulse each of those rounds as well, just as if she was deploying the Plan.  (If at any point she does not have the required amount of pulse available to spend, all effects of the realization end, and the actions are wasted.)  The effects of a realized Plan last for an extended period of time, as detailed in the individual Plan descriptions.

Flare pulse (Su): Upon reaching 2nd level, a ley engineer learns to manufacture short-term, weaker effects on a moment's notice when necessary.  The engineer may flare her pulse as a standard action to produce the Flare effect of any Plan she knows, without having designed it beforehand.  She must make the appropriate Craft check to generate the effect of the Plan, as detailed in the Plan description.  However, any pulse that she flares this way is consumed, and cannot be used to flare, deploy, or realize Plans until the ley engineer recovers it.  Flared pulse returns at the rate of 1 pulse per 10 minutes; the ley engineer also recovers any remaining flared pulse when she draws pulse at the beginning of the following day.

Specialty (Ex): At 2nd level, a ley engineer may select one Knowledge or Craft skill in which she has ranks to be a specialty skill.  She gains a +2 bonus on checks with the chosen skill.  At 5th level and every three levels thereafter (8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th level), the ley engineer may select an additional specialty from the Knowledge and Craft skills in which she has ranks.  In addition, at each such interval, the bonus to any specialty skill (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

Channel ley (Su): Beginning at 4th level, a ley engineer learns how to attempt to draw more pulse from a ley line than her normal standing capacity, for a short period of time.  However, due to the incredible strength of the energy currents in ley lines, such methods are not perfectly predictable.  As a swift action, the ley engineer can make a Wisdom check, comparing the result to the table below to determine the amount of additional pulse she draws.  In the case of a negative result, she reduces the amount of pulse she has, to a minimum of 0; if this reduction causes her to have less pulse than is required to maintain her current Plans (either deployed the same round, or in the process of being realized), she must cancel one or more Plans, until the amount of required pulse matches the amount she now has.  A canceled Plan ends its effect immediately, with any preparation and time lost.  The change to her pulse amount lasts for 1 round.

Wis check resultPulse change
0 or less -3
1–3 -2
4–6 -1
7–10 +0
11–13 +1
14–16 +2
17–20 +3
20 or higher +4

True artistry (Ex): By 6th level, a ley engineer understands that what she does is an art, not a science.  She has an intuitive grasp of the forces she works with, and has internalized the knowledge she has, making it easier to respond quickly in dangerous situations.  She may take 10 on Knowledge and Craft checks even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

Portfolio (Ex): Upon reaching 7th level, a ley engineer has become so practiced at her craft that she can call upon certain Plans on short notice, without the usual preparation.  She chooses a number of Plans equal to half her Wisdom modifier (use only her base Wisdom modifier, unmodified by items, spells, ability damage or drain, etc.).  Whenever she flares any of the Plans in her portfolio, she may make a Knowledge check for the primary Knowledge skill in addition to the required Craft check.  She then gains the full benefit of deploying the Plans without having it prepared, though she must supply enough pulse for the base effect of the plan instead of the flare cost (and loses the pulse as normal for flaring).  She may use the Craft check result in place of the primary Knowledge check result to determine the base effect of the Plan if she chooses, but does not gain the benefit of making the secondary Knowledge check for that plan.  The ley engineer can choose different Plans for her portfolio at each level if she desires.

Improved deployment (Su): A ley engineer of 9th level or higher learns more efficient ways of deploying her Plans.  The amount of pulse she must spend to deploy a Plan is reduced by 2 (to a minimum of 1).

Improved recovery (Su): At 10th level, a ley engineer recovers pulse from the surrounding ley lines more quickly.  She regains 1 point of pulse lost to flaring every minute instead of every 10 minutes.

Rapid realization (Ex): Beginning at 12th level, a ley engineer becomes more efficient at studying the terrain and ley lines prior to realizing her Plans.  She need only study for 1 minute per scope category instead of 10, and she need not study again until after a number of days equal to her Wisdom modifier.

Improved portfolio (Ex): Upon reaching 13th level, the ley engineer's portfolio increases in size to be equal to her Wisdom modifier.

Improved flare (Su): Whenever a ley engineer of 15th level or higher uses her Flare Pulse ability, she only burns half the amount of pulse that the flare requires.

Coalesce ley web (Su): Upon reaching 16th level, a ley engineer can bend the very ley lines in an area around her, granting her an incredible amount of pulse for a short time.  Once per day, the ley engineer can spend a swift action to activate this ability.  On the round that she activates it, the ley engineer increases her pulse by 1; on each successive round, she gains an additional pulse, until the total amount of pulse she has gained this way equals her Wisdom modifier.  Once she has reached the maximum, the following round she loses access to one bonus pulse, and reduces her pulse by 1 again on each successive round until she has returned to her normal pulse total.

Speedy recovery (Su): At 18th level, a ley engineer recovers pulse from the surrounding ley lines even more rapidly than before.  She regains 1 point of pulse lost to flaring every round instead of every minute.

Greater portfolio (Ex): Beginning at 19th level, the size of a ley engineer's portfolio is equal to twice her Wisdom modifier.

Speedy realization (Ex): When the ley engineer achieves 20th level, she is a master of imposing her will on her surroundings.  The effects of her realized Plans propagate at a speed of 1 scope category per round instead of per minute.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 07:23:29 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 01:33:03 PM »
PLANS

Each Plan described below includes a base effect (achieved when deploying or realizing) and a lesser flare effect (achieved when flaring).  The area of the effect is always an emanation of radius 30 feet (centered on the ley engineer) when deploying the Plan and an emanation of radius 15 feet (centered on the ley engineer) when flaring.

When realizing, the range depends on how many scope categories the ley engineer wishes to affect.  The radius of the first scope category is 50 feet, and increases by a factor of 5 for every additional scope category (that is, four scope categories is a little over a mile in radius).  Realized plans require the minimum pulse to affect 1 scope category, and 1 additional pulse for each scope category after the first.

Flare effects last for 1 round unless indicated otherwise. The DC for any save required by a Plan is equal to 10 + the ley engineer's Intelligence modifier + the amount of pulse associated with the Plan.

Designing a Plan
To design a Plan, a ley engineer must spend the requisite amount of time, and make one or more Knowledge checks, as detailed in the descriptions below.  One Knowledge check (the "primary", indicated with a *) is required, and the other (the "secondary") is optional, altering the effect somewhat. The amount of pulse that the Plan requires is chosen when it is designed.

Each individual Knowledge (and Craft, for flare) skill is associated with a different type of effect:

KnowledgesCraftEffect type
Arcana, PlanesAlchemyAltering the physical and magical laws of reality in the area
Architecture & Engineering, Nobility & RoyaltyBlacksmithingFortifications & structures
Dungeoneering, LocalTrapmakingTraps & active terrain
Geography, NatureStoneworkingPassive terrain, large-scale effects (mountains, rivers, etc.), weather
History, ReligionSculptureIconography and manipulation of the mind & emotions

List of Plans
(click to show/hide)


Plan Descriptions
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:13:21 AM by sirpercival »
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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 01:33:18 PM »
FEATS

Analogous Research
Your studies and training have given you the necessary tools to work in a wide variety of media.
Prerequisites: Draw ley, Knowledge (Arcana, History, Nature, Psionics, or Religion) 4 ranks
Benefit: You can activate scrolls, martial scripts, and power stones. To do so requires the usual action, but instead of making a Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device check, you make an appropriate Knowledge check (as shown on the table below) against the same DC. You must spend pulse equal to the level of the spell, maneuver, or power to activate the item (regaining the pulse on your next turn as if you had deployed a Plan), and the item is consumed as normal.

ItemKnowledge
Arcane scrollArcana
Divine scroll (druid or ranger spell)Nature
Divine scroll (other)Religion
Martial ScriptHistory
Power stonePsionics

Coordinated Deployment
When you discuss the applications of a Plan beforehand, your allies are heartened when you deploy it.
Prerequisites: Plan (deploy), Diplomacy 2 ranks
Benefit: You may discuss a Plan with your allies before you deploy it, detailing the best ways to take advantage of the effects in a tactical situation. Such coordination requires an equal amount of time to designing the Plan, but once it has been discussed, whenever you deploy the discussed Plan, your allies gain a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls and Armor Class until the end of the encounter. You may only coordinate one Plan at any given time; if you discuss a different Plan before the coordinated one has been deployed, you lose the benefit of coordination on the previous Plan.

Develop Portfolio
You've spent some time adding to your portfolio.
Prerequisites: Portfolio
Benefit: The size of your portfolio increases by 1 Plan.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times; the effects stack.

Excellent Design
You can design Plans exceptionally well, thereby avoiding detrimental effects yourself.
Prerequisites: Plans (deploy), Int 15
Benefit: You are immune to the negative effects of the Plans you deploy and realize.

Flared Deployment
You can flare the pulse you use to deploy Plans, making them harder to resist.
Prerequisites: Plans (deploy), flare pulse
Benefit: When deploying a Plan, you can flare any amount of pulse spent to deploy it (losing the pulse as normal for flaring). The DC of any save required by the Plan increases by +1 for each pulse flared this way.

Foundations of Learning
You have a solid grounding in scholastic theories and basic scholarship.
Prerequisites: 1 rank in at least three Knowledge skills.
Benefit: You gain virtual ranks in each Knowledge skill equal to the number of actual ranks you have in that skill, up to a maximum of 1/4 of your max skill rank cap (rounded up). These virtual ranks cannot increase the total ranks you have in that skill above your skill rank cap. This benefit only applies to Knowledge skills in which you have at least 1 rank.

Ley River
You draw upon the ambient leylines to regenerate flared pulse more quickly than normal.
Prerequisites: Channel ley, flare pulse, Wis 13
Benefit: You recover 2 flared pulse every time unit instead of 1.

Paradigm Shock
Creatures affected by your Plans are very surprised at the way the world changes around them.
Prerequisites: Plans (deploy), Intimidate 2 ranks
Benefit: Whenever you deploy a Plan, you may make an Intimidate check to demoralize as an immediate action against all enemies within the area of the Plan effect. Creatures who are successfully demoralized by this ability remain so for the duration of the Plan effect.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 08:42:26 PM by sirpercival »
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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 01:33:27 PM »
reserved in case
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 01:05:30 PM »
I'd list plans by their Craft type, rather than the extremely non-descriptive letters A-E.

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 01:23:08 PM »
I'd list plans by their Craft type, rather than the extremely non-descriptive letters A-E.

Hm.  Should I assign a letter (based on the Craft type, so Blacksmithing would be B)?  Or just use the word?

What do you think of this, otherwise?
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Offline veekie

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 02:42:00 PM »
Word should be better. It's not that hard to fit in.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 01:28:28 AM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?

Portfolio: How do the chosen plans change when your Wisdom modifier changes? For example, it you were to repeatedly take off and put on a Periapt of Wisdom +4.
   What's the DC of the Knowledge check? Which Knowledge skill does it use (most plans list 2 Knowledges)?
   What happens for plans whose Flare effects don't care about success or failure of a Craft check? In such a case, it is impossible for the Craft check to succeed, as there is no success, just a result (if that).

The other class features look alright, although I may have to look at the Pulse mechanics again later on. I'm looking at the plans themselves, now.
Why are there any 1 or 2 pulse 1 round/pulse durations? That's too damn short for it to be worth spending a standard action on.
A great many plans have negative effects that affect everyone in the area. Remember how you're always in the area when you deploy or realize them? Several such effects would also prevent you from continuing to realize such plans beyond the first scope category.
You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.

Auspicious Symbol: Cool effect, too short duration. The flare is just pathetic, though. Spend a standard action for the chance of getting +1 AC?

Blazing Emblem: It will be hard to succeed on your own Will save against this effect, thus preventing you from maintaining the scope increases if you realize it.

Broken Ground: Invest in Climb or be immobilized? Too much, even without the permanent duration for realizing.
   Flare needs units for that speed. Speed in feet less than your check result, I guess?

Clarion Call: See Auspicious Symbol.

Dig Trench: What happens to people in the trenches when the duration ends and the trenches "disappear"?
   Realize effect is nonsensical. It refers to trench length in terms of an area (10-foot square).

Flash Frost: K(Arc) should say fall prone, otherwise only airborne creatures would be affected (which makes no sense). What's the Reflex DC?
   How often does the Flare deal damage?

Heatwave: How often does the Flare deal damage? Damage scaling is a bit wonky due to changing between d6s and d8s (for example, going from 3d8 to 4d6 is an average increase of only 0.5).
   Deploying this plan normally is kinda useless, as the only creature at all likely to spend a consecutive minute in the area is you.

Impede Magic: How does this work for characters untrained in Spellcraft? Is the K(Planes) check really supposed to increase the duration of the spells cast?

Increase Gravity: Attack rolls aren't in an area of effect, they're on the table in front of the players (ie: abstract concepts). Attacks don't really have a defined way of deciding if they're in an area. Creatures and objects and targets can be within an area, though. Not that this particularly matters, since most attack rolls less than half of a skill check result will miss anyways due to being lower than the target's AC.

Instant Fortress: What happens to creatures and objects already occupying the space filled by the room or its walls?
   How big is the Flared structure?

Minefield: How large are the mine cubes? What happens if your emanation moves such that some mines are partially or entirely outside of the area of effect? What if a creature is already within the mine's area? Can you select overlapping areas for your mines?
   Realize is nonsensical. You choose cubes for your mines, not squares.

... I may come back to review the rest later.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 07:11:38 PM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?
Because it would take you 10 rounds of move actions...?

Quote
Portfolio: How do the chosen plans change when your Wisdom modifier changes? For example, it you were to repeatedly take off and put on a Periapt of Wisdom +4.
   What's the DC of the Knowledge check? Which Knowledge skill does it use (most plans list 2 Knowledges)?
   What happens for plans whose Flare effects don't care about success or failure of a Craft check? In such a case, it is impossible for the Craft check to succeed, as there is no success, just a result (if that).
I'll have to clarify all this, the way the plans work wasn't quite what I expected when I wrote the class feature (a couple weeks earlier).

Quote
The other class features look alright, although I may have to look at the Pulse mechanics again later on. I'm looking at the plans themselves, now.
Why are there any 1 or 2 pulse 1 round/pulse durations? That's too damn short for it to be worth spending a standard action on.
Well, only at 1st or 2nd level when you have so little pulse.  Just like for a wizard or whatever.  Remember, pulse doesn't go away unless you flare it, so you could easily spend 3 pulse per round if you have 3 pulse.
Quote
A great many plans have negative effects that affect everyone in the area. Remember how you're always in the area when you deploy or realize them? Several such effects would also prevent you from continuing to realize such plans beyond the first scope category.
Yeah, I'll fix that.
Quote
You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.
Well, that came from wanting to include dependence on the skill checks in every Plan.  If you can suggest ways to homogenize the DCs and still have 2 Knowledge checks (along with a parallel Craft check) for each Plan, I would love to hear them.

Quote
Auspicious Symbol: Cool effect, too short duration. The flare is just pathetic, though. Spend a standard action for the chance of getting +1 AC?

Blazing Emblem: It will be hard to succeed on your own Will save against this effect, thus preventing you from maintaining the scope increases if you realize it.

Broken Ground: Invest in Climb or be immobilized? Too much, even without the permanent duration for realizing.
   Flare needs units for that speed. Speed in feet less than your check result, I guess?

Clarion Call: See Auspicious Symbol.

Dig Trench: What happens to people in the trenches when the duration ends and the trenches "disappear"?
   Realize effect is nonsensical. It refers to trench length in terms of an area (10-foot square).

Flash Frost: K(Arc) should say fall prone, otherwise only airborne creatures would be affected (which makes no sense). What's the Reflex DC?
   How often does the Flare deal damage?

Heatwave: How often does the Flare deal damage? Damage scaling is a bit wonky due to changing between d6s and d8s (for example, going from 3d8 to 4d6 is an average increase of only 0.5).
   Deploying this plan normally is kinda useless, as the only creature at all likely to spend a consecutive minute in the area is you.

Impede Magic: How does this work for characters untrained in Spellcraft? Is the K(Planes) check really supposed to increase the duration of the spells cast?

Increase Gravity: Attack rolls aren't in an area of effect, they're on the table in front of the players (ie: abstract concepts). Attacks don't really have a defined way of deciding if they're in an area. Creatures and objects and targets can be within an area, though. Not that this particularly matters, since most attack rolls less than half of a skill check result will miss anyways due to being lower than the target's AC.

Instant Fortress: What happens to creatures and objects already occupying the space filled by the room or its walls?
   How big is the Flared structure?

Minefield: How large are the mine cubes? What happens if your emanation moves such that some mines are partially or entirely outside of the area of effect? What if a creature is already within the mine's area? Can you select overlapping areas for your mines?
   Realize is nonsensical. You choose cubes for your mines, not squares.

... I may come back to review the rest later.
I'll clarify and adjust all these, and will edit here when done.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 09:07:29 PM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?
Because it would take you 10 rounds of move actions...?

That'll do it. I somehow thought that it affects the first scope category instantly, and only takes 1 minute for each subsequent category. The point still stands at level 20, though.

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The other class features look alright, although I may have to look at the Pulse mechanics again later on. I'm looking at the plans themselves, now.
Why are there any 1 or 2 pulse 1 round/pulse durations? That's too damn short for it to be worth spending a standard action on.
Well, only at 1st or 2nd level when you have so little pulse.  Just like for a wizard or whatever.  Remember, pulse doesn't go away unless you flare it, so you could easily spend 3 pulse per round if you have 3 pulse.

Yes, but you're still spending a standard action. Spending the entirety of your meaningful actions for the turn in exchange for a minor bonus just for that turn (and maybe the next) is very underwhelming. Even more so when you start flaring your Pulse, which does consume the spent Pulse and has a lesser effect for that 1-2 rounds, to boot. Very low durations need high value per action, since low value can't be multiplied over a long period of time.

Also, Pulse schmulse. You're spending one of your limited number of prepared plans, which are about as available as Cleric/Wizard spell slots at low levels, and even more limited at higher levels. Sure, you can get them back throughout the day, but at 10 minutes apiece, you might get one or two back once or twice per day. It's pretty rare to sit around a dungeon for half an hour in my experience.

Your 1 round/pulse effects (when deployed) last for 1 round at levels 1-2, and only 2 rounds at levels 3-5. Even at the highest levels, they'll never last more than 7 rounds. For a class all about planning and preparing through buffing, many of these abilities can't be employed except as a spur of the moment thing right on the battlefield.

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You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.
Well, that came from wanting to include dependence on the skill checks in every Plan.  If you can suggest ways to homogenize the DCs and still have 2 Knowledge checks (along with a parallel Craft check) for each Plan, I would love to hear them.

Save DC 10 + Pulse spent + Int mod. There are a couple like this already, and its consistent with other mechanics.


Offline sirpercival

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 10:42:00 AM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?
Because it would take you 10 rounds of move actions...?

That'll do it. I somehow thought that it affects the first scope category instantly, and only takes 1 minute for each subsequent category. The point still stands at level 20, though.
Meh, I'm okay with it at level 20.  Plus you still have to study beforehand, which most of the time you just won't be able to do.

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The other class features look alright, although I may have to look at the Pulse mechanics again later on. I'm looking at the plans themselves, now.
Why are there any 1 or 2 pulse 1 round/pulse durations? That's too damn short for it to be worth spending a standard action on.
Well, only at 1st or 2nd level when you have so little pulse.  Just like for a wizard or whatever.  Remember, pulse doesn't go away unless you flare it, so you could easily spend 3 pulse per round if you have 3 pulse.

Yes, but you're still spending a standard action. Spending the entirety of your meaningful actions for the turn in exchange for a minor bonus just for that turn (and maybe the next) is very underwhelming. Even more so when you start flaring your Pulse, which does consume the spent Pulse and has a lesser effect for that 1-2 rounds, to boot. Very low durations need high value per action, since low value can't be multiplied over a long period of time.

Also, Pulse schmulse. You're spending one of your limited number of prepared plans, which are about as available as Cleric/Wizard spell slots at low levels, and even more limited at higher levels. Sure, you can get them back throughout the day, but at 10 minutes apiece, you might get one or two back once or twice per day. It's pretty rare to sit around a dungeon for half an hour in my experience.

Your 1 round/pulse effects (when deployed) last for 1 round at levels 1-2, and only 2 rounds at levels 3-5. Even at the highest levels, they'll never last more than 7 rounds. For a class all about planning and preparing through buffing, many of these abilities can't be employed except as a spur of the moment thing right on the battlefield.
Fair enough.  I'll boost the durations.

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You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.
Well, that came from wanting to include dependence on the skill checks in every Plan.  If you can suggest ways to homogenize the DCs and still have 2 Knowledge checks (along with a parallel Craft check) for each Plan, I would love to hear them.

Save DC 10 + Pulse spent + Int mod. There are a couple like this already, and its consistent with other mechanics.
Yes, except that I'll need new effects to replace the few DCs which were determined by skill checks.  I'll see what I can come up with.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 10:47:40 AM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?
Because it would take you 10 rounds of move actions...?

That'll do it. I somehow thought that it affects the first scope category instantly, and only takes 1 minute for each subsequent category. The point still stands at level 20, though.
Meh, I'm okay with it at level 20.  Plus you still have to study beforehand, which most of the time you just won't be able to do.

It's 10 minutes of study for scope 1, same as the normal 10 minutes of preparation for a regularly deployed plan.

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You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.
Well, that came from wanting to include dependence on the skill checks in every Plan.  If you can suggest ways to homogenize the DCs and still have 2 Knowledge checks (along with a parallel Craft check) for each Plan, I would love to hear them.

Save DC 10 + Pulse spent + Int mod. There are a couple like this already, and its consistent with other mechanics.
Yes, except that I'll need new effects to replace the few DCs which were determined by skill checks.  I'll see what I can come up with.

Give me a list of the plans that would be affected and maybe I can lend a hand.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
Plans: Once you're 3rd level, why would you ever deploy a plan instead of realizing it with scope 1?
Because it would take you 10 rounds of move actions...?

That'll do it. I somehow thought that it affects the first scope category instantly, and only takes 1 minute for each subsequent category. The point still stands at level 20, though.
Meh, I'm okay with it at level 20.  Plus you still have to study beforehand, which most of the time you just won't be able to do.

It's 10 minutes of study for scope 1, same as the normal 10 minutes of preparation for a regularly deployed plan.
That 10 minutes of study is in addition to the design phase.  It goes design (10min) [-> study (10+min) optional] -> deploy/realize.

And you have to study the terrain & ley lines where it's actually going to be realized.

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You really need a consistent formula for save DCs.
Well, that came from wanting to include dependence on the skill checks in every Plan.  If you can suggest ways to homogenize the DCs and still have 2 Knowledge checks (along with a parallel Craft check) for each Plan, I would love to hear them.

Save DC 10 + Pulse spent + Int mod. There are a couple like this already, and its consistent with other mechanics.
Yes, except that I'll need new effects to replace the few DCs which were determined by skill checks.  I'll see what I can come up with.

Give me a list of the plans that would be affected and maybe I can lend a hand.
Hmm...

Blazing Emblem
Broken Ground
Impede Magic (except it's a Spellcraft check so this one is probably ok)
Increase Gravity
Omen of Treachery
Quicksand
Rend Earth (Concentration check, not save)
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 04:42:40 PM »
Quote from: Garryl
Save DC 10 + Pulse spent + Int mod. There are a couple like this already, and its consistent with other mechanics.

I get the need for standardization but the skill DC based saves was one of the things I really liked about this class and one of the things it had going for it over casters.

With both Wis and Int being important, you'll have a really hard time even keeping up with other classes' DCs if you use the same formula they do.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 04:56:48 PM »
Skill check-based save DCs tend to become unbeatable, though. At level 1, you average 3-5 points above a normal save DC at level 1 (depending on if you have a masterwork tool or not), and it just gets worse from there. Most save DCs wind up somewhere in the range of 13+level, but normal skill modifiers usually end up at around 7+1.5*level (or more depending on what kinds of custom items you can get, or if you're using one of those skills with +30 items or spells already printed).

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 05:44:41 PM »
I'm just afraid that the reverse is true for standard formula DCs. That, in a high op campaign (High Arcana, with its starting lv of 6 for instance), characters will be able to trivialize saves up to DC 20 or so, which is near the limit of the standard formula for the equivalent of 3rd level spells.

You are probably right that skill based DCs are not the answer to this, I'm just not sure what is.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 06:11:35 PM »
Maybe have a base save amount (10 + pulse + Int) and then have the skill checks map to DC increases, but bounded?
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Re: Ley Engineer (3.5 base), a fortifications expert
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 09:47:02 AM »
OK at long last I've standardized DCs and given new effects to the suddenly effectless skill checks.

I need some ideas for feats, and maybe more plans.

CNC: to address your DC concern, I'm going to include at least one feat to boost the save DCs, though I haven't nailed down exactly how yet. What about something like "you gain +1 to DC for every 5 ranks you have in the primary skill"? 

Also, what should I do with meta-plan feats? :D
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