Ways to become a devil?

[123456789blaaa]

The Mark of X feats from the FCII seem really cool and unique. Unfortunately one of the prequisites is being a devil. I know a lot of ways to become an Outsider but I'm not sure how to become a devil specifically. Obviously I'd prefer an option that doesn't suck (like taking a devil monster class for example).

Help?

[littha]

Obviously I'd prefer an option that doesn't suck (like taking a devil monster class for example).

That is probably pretty much it, unless you count polymorph/shapechange shenanigans

[SneeR]

Get inside the details? That's where one generally finds devils.

[123456789blaaa]

Obviously I'd prefer an option that doesn't suck (like taking a devil monster class for example).

That is probably pretty much it, unless you count polymorph/shapechange shenanigans

Well what exactly is a devil as defined in the dnd rules? The SRD says:
 

Devils are fiends from lawful evil-aligned planes

(the rest of what it says are about most devils, not all of them)

Does this mean a teifling born in Baator is a devil?

Get inside the details? That's where one generally finds devils.

I see what you did there   .

[littha]

Devils also have a special subtype (though not in the SRD, its excluded from the OGL)

[123456789blaaa]

Devils also have a special subtype (though not in the SRD, its excluded from the OGL)

Do you mean the baatezu subtype? The baatezu are the most numerous of the devils, not the only type.

[zook1shoe]

Changeling can get em for +0 LA... Just have Racial Emulation and take the form of a incarnate half-golem devil.

[Prime32]

Nondevils can gain this feat, and the feats that require it as a prerequisite, by performing a particularly useful act for an archduke of Hell. This option is unavailable to player characters (unless a DM rules otherwise).

[123456789blaaa]

Changeling can get em for +0 LA... Just have Racial Emulation and take the form of a incarnate half-golem devil.

The problem with doing this is that "race" isn't defined anywhere in the dnd rules. This makes this trick very grey. I'll use it as a second-last resort.

Nondevils can gain this feat, and the feats that require it as a prerequisite, by performing a particularly useful act for an archduke of Hell. This option is unavailable to player characters (unless a DM rules otherwise).

In my view this is basically DM Fiat. I'd like to find a way that doesn't rely on a DMs mercy. Perhaps I'll use it as a last resort.

[ImperatorK]

1. Do a lot of Lawful Evil stuff.
2. Sell your soul to a devil.
3. Kill yourself.
4. ???
5. Profit Get turned into a lemure. You're a devil now.

In my view this is basically DM Fiat. I'd like to find a way that doesn't rely on a DMs mercy. Perhaps I'll use it as a last resort.

Yeah, but there's a problem here. Even if you manage to completely become a devil, you're still a PC, so you can't take it. You're at the DMs mercy either way.

[123456789blaaa]

1. Do a lot of Lawful Evil stuff.
2. Sell your soul to a devil.
3. Kill yourself.
4. ???
5. Profit Get turned into a lemure. You're a devil now.

In my view this is basically DM Fiat. I'd like to find a way that doesn't rely on a DMs mercy. Perhaps I'll use it as a last resort.

Yeah, but there's a problem here. Even if you manage to completely become a devil, you're still a PC, so you can't take it. You're at the DMs mercy either way.

D'OH!  . Sigh...guess I really will have to rely on DM mercy...at least it gives a mention in the text.

[zook1shoe]

1- take a Medium sized humanoid looking devil (kyton)
2- add a template that turns it into a construct (dustform)
3- add a template that turns it into a humanoid (incarnate construct)

What's wrong with that?

(half-golem was an invalid template for an outsider)

Just because WotC didn't give it stats doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That would mean half the Summon Monster list wouldn't work.

[123456789blaaa]

1- take a Medium sized humanoid looking devil (kyton)
2- add a template that turns it into a construct (dustform)
3- add a template that turns it into a humanoid (incarnate construct)

What's wrong with that?

(half-golem was an invalid template for an outsider)

Just because WotC didn't give it stats doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That would mean half the Summon Monster list wouldn't work.

Racial Emulation says:

When you use your minor change shape ability to assume the form of a humanoid creature, you can also emulate any of that humanoid's subtypes. Though you do not gain any of the humanoid's traits, you are considered to be a member of that race for all other purposes (allowing you to use magic items or spells keyed to race, for example). You can also ignore the normal penalty on Disguise checks when disguising yourself as a different race (see the Disguise skill description, page 72 of the Player's Handbook). You can only emulate one race at a time, and you always retain the shapechanger subtype.

Does incarnate construct change your race? What about Dustform? Since the term "race" isn't defined anywhere in the dnd rules, the trick rely's on a favorable DM ruling. It's not as bad as fighters with laser eyes but it's still pretty grey.

In any case it's moot now since it doesn't even matter if the character can become a devil.

[zook1shoe]

It changes the other requiring factor... The race to be humanoid.

But as said before the feat is specifically not available to PCs. So it doesn't matter and neither does arguing over 'what is race'

[123456789blaaa]

It changes the other requiring factor... The race to be humanoid.

But as said before the feat is specifically not available to PCs. So it doesn't matter and neither does arguing over 'what is race'

Yes, I know. That's why I said:

In any case it's moot now since it doesn't even matter if the character can become a devil.

I answered your post on race because you asked me "What's wrong with that?".

[Maat Mons]

I'd interpret the “this option is unavailable to player characters” clause to apply to the option to gain the feat without being a devil by performing a service to an archduke.  Are you interpreting it as applying to the entire feat? 

[123456789blaaa]

I'd interpret the “this option is unavailable to player characters” clause to apply to the option to gain the feat without being a devil by performing a service to an archduke.  Are you interpreting it as applying to the entire feat?

Wait...you're right  . Jeez I have to stop jumping to conclusions so quickly.

[zook1shoe]

So now that its relevant...

What's the difference between a monster (or creature if you prefer) and a race?

I say a race is any monster that has an ECL, whereas a monster does not.

[123456789blaaa]

So now that its relevant...

What's the difference between a monster (or creature if you prefer) and a race?

I say a race is any monster that has an ECL, whereas a monster does not.

No idea.

Do you have rules to back that up?

[zook1shoe]

Common sense.

Otherwise, what is a race?

Is it just a thing that has lots of fluff but no 'base' stat block?
- No, because you would be stuck with human and... human.
- Others don't have a separate fluff section, but are considered a race. Example, goblins and kenku.

Is a race just any monster?
- That's a broad term that includes races (playable creatures) and unplayable creatures.


Why I think that templated creatures are a different race that an untemplated race of the same type.
- They are affected by different abilities and have access to different racial feats and racial prestige classes. Example, lycanthropy.