Author Topic: Non-Epic Class Changes  (Read 4932 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Non-Epic Class Changes
« on: October 19, 2012, 04:56:02 PM »
Class Index:
**Artificer
Barbarian (Agita & veekie)
Beguiler (PHB2)
Cleric
Crusader (ToB)
Dread Necromancer (HoH)
Druid
Paladin (sirpercival)
Ranger
Rogue (sirpercival)
Samurai (TravelLog)
Scout (sirpercival)
Soulknife (Garryl)
**Summoner
Swordsage (ToB)
**Thaumaturge
Warblade (ToB)
Warmage


Notes:

Next, we have to make changes to classes.  The high-tier classes require the most work:
  • All casters are spontaneous, but can prepare spells if they wish (for metamagic purposes).
  • Wizard & sorcerer are replaced by a single full-casting arcane base class, the Mage.  Mage gains a familiar and chooses one of the following specializations:
    • 1) Warmage (blasting & bfc spells)
    • 2) Necromancer (undead & debuff spells)
    • 3) Beguiler (enchantment & illusion spells)
    • 4) Thaumaturge (transmutation & divination spells)
    • 5) Summoner (summoning & calling spells)
    • 6) Spellknight (buffs & abjuration spells)
    The Mage knows all spells on its list of the appropriate levels.  Then it gets class features a la the specialist variants, and bonus metamagic feats. To make the class feature exchange cleaner, I'm considering just making 6 classes instead of 1, but we'll see how it goes.
  • Clerics only know spells from their domains (and know all spells of the appropriate levels from their domains).  They gain domains like Ardents gain mantles.  In addition to the domain powers, clerics can choose divine feats or archivist-style class features.  (Archivist and Favored Soul do not exist; Healers are redundant.)
  • Druid spells are Primal instead of Divine, and have a significantly reduced spell list.  They get Drift (a la geomancer), genius loci abilities, and the abilities Prime32 posted above.
  • Artificers don't get spells 2 levels early.  In addition, they pick one spell list at 1st level and 1 additional list every 5 levels after.  They can only craft items with spells from their lists.

For most of the low-tier classes, we can simply use homebrewed fixes or other exchanges:
  • Fighter = Warblade (can take fighter-only feats at =level)
  • Monk = Swordsage
  • Ranger = Sublime Ranger [sirp]
  • Rogue = Sublime Rogue [sirp]
  • Paladin = Thaumurai [sirp]
  • Samurai = Kensei of 5 rings [travellog]
  • Barbarian = War-Frenzy [agita+veekie]
  • Soulknife = Invoking Soulknife [garryl]
  • Knight = Crusader
  • Scout = Wardancer [sirp]

(click to show/hide)

New plan for Mage -- make 5 classes instead, for ease of class features.  Beguiler & Dread Necromancer will be used as-is.  Thaumaturge is Int-based, Spellknight & Warmage are Cha-based.  Either axe Summoner entirely, due to overlap with Druid & Cleric, or use some variation on PF Summoner.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 10:13:49 PM by sirpercival »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »
Either axe Summoner entirely, due to overlap with Druid & Cleric, or use some variation on PF Summoner.
What about DonQuixote's monstrosity? :D After all, all the summoner really needs to do is "summon" things (i.e. play pokemon).
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 05:04:22 PM »
Possibly... I'm trying to decide whether summoning deserves its own class or should be subsumed into other things. 

I'm worried about the Druid -- I want to reduce its spell list to match the scale of everything else, but there are a lot of iconic spells to look at here.
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Offline Prime32

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 06:51:05 PM »
Or you could move BFC spells to the Summoner, and split Spellknight between Warmage and Thaumaturge.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 07:02:09 PM »
Or you could move BFC spells to the Summoner, and split Spellknight between Warmage and Thaumaturge.
Hm.  That could work... Warmage becoming the gish class, essentially.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 07:57:56 PM »
I'm worried about the Druid -- I want to reduce its spell list to match the scale of everything else, but there are a lot of iconic spells to look at here.
The druid really shouldn't be 1 class... it should be 3 classes: a summoner, a beastmaster, and a shapeshifter.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 09:08:49 PM »
Notice the changes I've already made...
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 12:23:46 AM »
Notice the changes I've already made...
Yeah, hadn't really synthesized all of that yet... :P So, Wildshape becomes whole character replacement, and burns spellslots. And you have to choose between it and an "Animal Companion". And the spell list will be fixed, and all known (like a Beguiler, etc). Hmm... that sounds quite good. I look forward to seeing the final product.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 10:30:46 AM »
Alrighty, take a look.  Still too many dead levels, but it's posted with everything I have so far.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2013, 10:15:39 PM »
OK I finally posted the Cleric I've been working on forever...

Also, I need help with the high-level favored planes for the ranger, if anyone has ideas...
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 08:15:38 PM »
What happened to cantrips/orisons/0th-level spells? Cleric doesn't seem to have any level 0 spell slots.

Cleric looks cool, except for Paragon, which is just a bunch of boring numerical bonuses. The "select a cool ability from a menu" thing is already granted by both domain powers and archetype powers, not to mention spells themselves. We don't need yet another.

Inspiration should be per day, not per encounter, so that you don't just make all your long-term buffs undispellable (unless that's the intent).

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 03:19:54 PM »
What happened to cantrips/orisons/0th-level spells? Cleric doesn't seem to have any level 0 spell slots.
Whoops, forgot those. I'll fix.

Quote
Cleric looks cool, except for Paragon, which is just a bunch of boring numerical bonuses. The "select a cool ability from a menu" thing is already granted by both domain powers and archetype powers, not to mention spells themselves. We don't need yet another.
Yeah... the problem is that I couldn't remember what I originally intended for that. Any better ideas for an ability chain there?

Quote
Inspiration should be per day, not per encounter, so that you don't just make all your long-term buffs undispellable (unless that's the intent).
OK.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 05:06:04 PM »
Quote
Cleric looks cool, except for Paragon, which is just a bunch of boring numerical bonuses. The "select a cool ability from a menu" thing is already granted by both domain powers and archetype powers, not to mention spells themselves. We don't need yet another.
Yeah... the problem is that I couldn't remember what I originally intended for that. Any better ideas for an ability chain there?

Cha mod to various stuff? Say, damage (1st) and attack (4th) rolls with deity's favored weapon, Fort (8th), Ref (12th), and Will (16th) saves, and AC (20th), possibly replacing the normal stat.

Give various benefits normally lumped in with divine ranks? A bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting effects and Transmutation spells (or other effects that would alter your form). Any ability damage, ability drain, or negative levels that you would gain from any effect is reduced by some amount.You already have the ability to spontaneously cast spells from your granted domains, that being the premise of the casting system, but maybe being able to cast from any domain you possess, even if not granted, albeit at twice the spell slot cost. Gain spell resistance and DR/epic. Become semi-immortal and do not suffer penalties from aging, need to eat, sleep, or breathe, and become immune to death from old age or massive damage.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 11:22:59 PM »
Quote
Cleric looks cool, except for Paragon, which is just a bunch of boring numerical bonuses. The "select a cool ability from a menu" thing is already granted by both domain powers and archetype powers, not to mention spells themselves. We don't need yet another.
Yeah... the problem is that I couldn't remember what I originally intended for that. Any better ideas for an ability chain there?

Cha mod to various stuff? Say, damage (1st) and attack (4th) rolls with deity's favored weapon, Fort (8th), Ref (12th), and Will (16th) saves, and AC (20th), possibly replacing the normal stat.

Give various benefits normally lumped in with divine ranks? A bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting effects and Transmutation spells (or other effects that would alter your form). Any ability damage, ability drain, or negative levels that you would gain from any effect is reduced by some amount.You already have the ability to spontaneously cast spells from your granted domains, that being the premise of the casting system, but maybe being able to cast from any domain you possess, even if not granted, albeit at twice the spell slot cost. Gain spell resistance and DR/epic. Become semi-immortal and do not suffer penalties from aging, need to eat, sleep, or breathe, and become immune to death from old age or massive damage.
Alrighty, how's that look?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Non-Epic Class Changes
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 11:56:49 PM »
Coolio.