Author Topic: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E  (Read 12226 times)

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« on: November 25, 2016, 12:41:36 PM »
Ok, since exploring ideas in my other thread I've settled on a concept and will be working on my new character in this current thread. More details on character creation as my DM makes them available. A work in progress.  All assistance welcome. 

Race: Half-Orc
Class: "Hexblade" (Paladin 6/Warlock 14)
Class Progression: ?
Background: ?
Alignment: LN
Name: Dax

Paladin 6 Details
Oath: Oath of Vengeance
Desired Feats: ?

Warlock 14 Details
Patron: Fiend
Pact: Pact of the Tome
Invocations: ?
Spells: ?
Desired Feats: ?
 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 05:20:33 PM by Necrosnoop110 »

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2016, 02:41:28 PM »
I'm of the opinion you get probability on your side and get your most-used ability scores to 20 over obtaining feats.  Statistics can show you when certain feats are mathematically better than ability scores over an infinite period of time or an infinite number of discrete encounters, but reality remains: it only takes a discreet number of bad d20 rolls to end your character.  Max out the Strength (and Charisma if you get Paladin 6 relatively early).

In case you want to ignore the part about ability scores, the typical feats for Strength melee are Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master.  PAM loses some usefulness as long as you're using Hex, since casting and moving Hex around is going to eat up your bonus actions, though the PAM reaction is very useful.  Great Weapon Master somewhat works in opposition to Divine Smite since Divine Smite's DPR is contingent on higher accuracy and GWM lowers that.  The more dice you're rolling for weapon damage, the worse the tradeoff for using GWM's power attack.  War Caster also has neat interaction with PAM and Booming Blade, and it goes up in value quite a bit if you see yourself using concentration spells with your slots instead of smiting a lot.  With all that said, a feat-heavy style is going to gain a lot more benefit from using spell slots for non-Hex spells instead of smiting.

Remember you can retrain a spell and an invocation with each warlock level.  Armor of Agathys may not seem like much compared to a smite or Hex at level 1, but at higher level when it's more likely to absorb more than a single hit, dealing its full damage each time, it gets a lot better.  If you can set it up due to the durations, Fire Shield + Armor of Agathys makes it a really terrible idea for anything to attack you in melee.  The Fiend's list is generally good and a lot of the patron spells are worth taking.  Arms of Hadar is great utility for getting out of tight spots while doing damage, or Misty Step if you want the guaranteed option as a trade off for damage.  Darkness and Hunger of Hadar are useful if you take Devil's Sight.

What level are you starting at?  Paladin 2/warlock 1 to gain Divine Smite cantrips will hold you over for a long time.  Getting to paladin 5 and 6 will give you generally bigger boosts than taking the warlock levels first, though warlock 2 for invocations is a big step if you're trying to do Darkness/Devil's Sight combos and you want to do good damage with Eldritch Blast.
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Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2016, 11:09:19 PM »
Starts @ 1st level
Rolled stats (not completed yet) 

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2016, 10:57:18 AM »
Start with paladin to gain heavy armor proficiency.  You lose nothing by holding off warlock to 2nd level, but if you started as a warlock you'd only get to medium armor proficiency taking paladin 2nd.

Go paladin 2 before you worry about branching at all.  The first 6 paladin levels are so good that you could just go with those before multiclassing at all unless you desperately want a Charisma-based ranged attack.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 12:42:00 AM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2016, 05:33:48 PM »
TenJ speaks good wisdom.

Zardnaar has a Fighter 1 / Bladelock X guide at ENWorld.
Giantitp just got a Paladin 6 / Sorc 14 is too awesome to bear, guide.
Either/both should have additional useful pointers.
Mellored wants 2 houserules on Blade, just to be in the ballpark.

2/2 to start is smite heaven (if that sounds tasty)
could go Tome 3 with Green Flame Blade, then
return to Pal to 6, doesn't hit as hard levels 5 and 6.
Sequencing and splitting hairs.
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Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2016, 12:37:40 PM »
Paladin 1
Half-Orc
27 Point Buy

S: 15 (+2) = 17
D: 10
C: 13 (+1) = 14
I:  8
W: 10
C: 15

Future Question: Tome or Blade 'lock?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 12:42:20 PM by Necrosnoop110 »

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2016, 01:17:55 PM »
Blade provides no advantage until this character is level 18.  Do you think you'll make it to level 18?

Tome is the superior option for what you're doing until Paladin 6/Warlock 12.  Even at that point, you're trading off the utility associated with Tome to gain Charisma to damage.  Versatility "wins" in D&D.  I assume you'll take Eldritch Blast and 1 of Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade for your warlock cantrips.  Grab Guidance for your out-of-combat skill needs.  Thorn Whip can be useful as a gap closer or to pull archers off ledges.  Shocking Grasp is helpful if you find yourself needing to leave melee range and you don't want to blow a pact slot on Misty Step or Dimension Door.

Those odd scores in point buy make me cringe but I understand the purpose if your first ASI goes to +1 Strength and +1 Charisma.
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Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2016, 02:44:22 PM »
Blade provides no advantage until this character is level 18.  Do you think you'll make it to level 18?
Probably not. Doesn't a bladelock give extra attack faster than Tomelock? 

Those odd scores in point buy make me cringe but I understand the purpose if your first ASI goes to +1 Strength and +1 Charisma.
Suggestion?  :)

Offline Nifft

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2016, 03:14:33 PM »
Paladin 5 gives an extra attack, so it would be odd to take an Invocation to duplicate that.

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2016, 03:19:17 PM »
Base warlock does not give Extra Attack at all.  Pact of the Blade has access to the Thirsting Blade invocation, which duplicates and does not stack with Extra Attack.

Paladin 5 gives Extra Attack.  Why double up on a non-stacking feature?  You don't have an alternative to paladin's Extra Attack unless you reduce the number of paladin levels.  You have lots of alternatives to Thirsting Blade, and if you don't take Thirsting Blade, Pact of the Blade doesn't offer another substantial benefit until you can take Life Drinker at warlock 12.

I can't suggest a better point buy.  It's just ugly trying to fit point buy to a race that doesn't increase both desired ability scores in a MAD build.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 03:23:16 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2016, 05:08:26 PM »
Thanks guys.

1) Didn't realize about the non-stacking of extra attack
2) Yeah, I know Half-Orc is not optimal but I need it for campaign reasons. DM's letting us point buy and roll abilities and then take which spread we prefer so there is a chance my rolled stats could be higher depending on his method, won't know until show time.   

3) Suggestions for starting weapon / melee modus operandi?

- Necro
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 05:11:51 PM by Necrosnoop110 »

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Hexblade (Build Help) 5E
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2016, 12:44:55 AM »
The rules on multiclass Extra Attack (and Thirsting Blade) non-stacking are on page 164.

Greatsword/maul are the highest damage choices for a Strength build.  RAW and RAI you only need two hands to swing the weapon, not to hold it, so you can take a hand off to cast spells just fine.  Go hit stuff but don't be afraid to sit back and Eldritch Blast when things look rough.  Hex stuff for damage, and add divine smites on top of that for burst.

Reach maintains a lot of utility but notably the melee weapon cantrips have a 5 ft. range, meaning you negate the benefit of a reach weapon when using them unless you take Spell Sniper.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 01:36:44 PM by TenaciousJ »
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