Author Topic: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion  (Read 4849 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« on: July 08, 2014, 12:44:35 PM »
Handbook is here.

And now, to discuss the crappiest summon line WotC has created.  :shakefist

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 08:20:46 AM »
Going to try and finish the rest of the summon stat blocks by the end of this week. There's 5 to go, but a couple of them are really lightweight. SDA IX, for instance, has 2 monsters.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 12:01:38 PM »
You've got some oddities noted for the swarm creatures regarding losing the subtype. Why is that? I don't see anything in the template you quoted that alters a creature's subtype, just the type. It's unclear if the swarm loses the distraction special attack or if it regains it after applying the template due to still having the swarm subtype, but that's the only question I can see.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 12:11:10 PM »
Swarm definitely loses the Distraction ability regardless - Dustform explicitly removes all special attacks, which distraction is.

The problem is whether Dustform keeps subtypes - if it did, it would be the first construct template that did so (I went and checked all the others listed in Bhu's handbook, and the sample creatures don't have subtypes, even though they should). If it doesn't, you get some very strange creatures. If it does, you end up with some construct swarms.

Edit: Summon Desert Ally V is up. Absolute crap. Like normal :P
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 12:20:15 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 12:23:20 PM »
Swarm definitely loses the Distraction ability regardless - Dustform explicitly removes all special attacks, which distraction is.

The problem is whether Dustform keeps subtypes - if it did, it would be the first construct template that did so (I went and checked all the others listed in Bhu's handbook, and the sample creatures don't have subtypes, even though they should). If it doesn't, you get some very strange creatures. If it does, you end up with some construct swarms.

If it doesn't say it removes it, it shouldn't remove it. There's no general rule I can find saying otherwise.

Also, a minor but largely irrelevant thing regarding subtypes. All type-changing templates grant the augmented subtype unless explicitly mentioned otherwise. See Types and Subtypes of the templates section of the SRD.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 12:27:24 PM »
Yes, I've had this discussion already. As far as most people were able to work out, RAI they forgot to include a line they have in other construct templates that dumps all the subtypes. They certainly dump all the subtypes in the sample creatures, and in every other construct template.

That's why I've been providing both. Up to the DM/Player to decide which one is right.

Offline kitep

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 01:13:28 PM »
Yes, the previous dustform/swarm discussion is http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13897.0

You should include a link to this handbook discussion thread in the first post of your handbook.

As I'm currently playing a high level druid, I'm looking forward to trying out some of these summonings.  Thanks for puttin it together.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 02:35:00 PM »
Stuck the discussion thread link in at the top, cleaned up a few minor things with wording and so on.

And I really can't recommend these for a high level druid yet, although I have some hope that SDA VI is decent. Quick eyeball test says it is, but...

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 11:04:52 AM »
Summon Desert Ally VI is up. Finally, a semi-useful level, although the constructs are definitely falling behind their living relatives on the hitpoints front without the massive con boosts some of these creatures normally have.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 03:40:36 PM »
Summon Desert Ally VII goes back to the longstanding tradition of being utter and complete rubbish. We've got one more chance at a decent level (VIII), before the last level closes the door with a giant whimper.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 06:47:27 PM »
The handbook is now complete. Unless you need a Colossal grappler, the higher levels of this spell are truly rubbish. If you do need a Colossal grappler, they are moderately reasonable.

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 10:39:53 PM »
I approve of the Hugbot name.
"When life gives you lemons, fire them back at high velocity."

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 05:30:40 PM »
Just gone through and cleaned up a bunch of typos and other editing errors in the write-up. There isn't much I can do to make the spell chain not suck though.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Summon Desert Ally Handbook Discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 11:17:31 AM »
Stuck in a minor mention of Wasteland Magic, since it was inspired partly by my work on this handbook and directly boosts the power of Dustform creatures.