Author Topic: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion  (Read 19387 times)

Offline wotmaniac

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discuss the handbook here.

okay.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:29:21 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline vaz

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 07:53:11 AM »
The Plesiosaur is a SNA9 animal, as per Stormwrack. It replaces the Celestial Charger Unicorn - which may or may not be more useful, and depends on whether D3/D4+1 Greenbounds are better than an aquatic grappler without Heart of Water.

I also seem to remember a comment regarding how the original writer tried to make it a +2 Metamagic, but that was lost in editing somewhere along the line.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 10:11:54 AM »
Nice to see someone bored enough to detail all the stats and nice enough to post them :)


Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 02:52:19 PM »
The Plesiosaur is a SNA9 animal, as per Stormwrack. It replaces the Celestial Charger Unicorn - which may or may not be more useful, and depends on whether D3/D4+1 Greenbounds are better than an aquatic grappler without Heart of Water.
Ah, I was looking for some alternate critters, but I couldn't find any.  Thanks.
And, of course, I just found DragMag 302, so that means that I've got those to add now .... I'll post RES first, and then I'll tackle those.

Quote
I also seem to remember a comment regarding how the original writer tried to make it a +2 Metamagic, but that was lost in editing somewhere along the line.
Yeah, that's what Ed Bonny says; but when you really look at it, it seems a lot less misprint a more he just got out-voted on the implementation.


Nice to see someone bored enough to detail all the stats and nice enough to post them :)
:cloud9
yeah, this is how I'm spending my stacation. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:29:34 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline vaz

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Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 08:01:41 PM »
Okay, fire away!

All I've got left to do is Storm Elementals and some alternate animals; but otherwise, have at it.

I'll eventually get some better organization to the RES section ... something more functional.  Key word there is "eventually".

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5

May be helpful for you for the alternates =).
Sweet!  thanks.

I'm gonna shoot for tomorrow on the rest.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:29:47 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 09:59:48 PM »
Yeowch. That Wall of Thorns SLA is nasty at low levels, even with the summoning spell's duration limiting it to 1 round/level. That's going to be an instant win for the first few levels, even without Entangle controlling the battlefield even further.

You've got some messed up line breaks in some of the last few Orglash stat blocks (monoloth, grue, and swarm stat blocks), usually around the initiative line.

Nice to have this available for any summoner who makes use of the feats.

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 11:37:00 PM »
You've got some messed up line breaks in some of the last few Orglash stat blocks (monoloth, grue, and swarm stat blocks), usually around the initiative line.
Thanks.  Fixed.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:30:00 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline eggynack

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 11:44:46 PM »
All I've got left to do is Storm Elementals and some alternate animals; but otherwise, have at it.
I don't think that rashemi necessarily hits anything beyond standard air and earth elementals, which gets rid of a lot of the options you have listed. It's at least a reasonable interpretation, if you consider that the feat may work off of name rather than subtype. As for animals, you appear to currently be missing the dire rhinoceros (FF, 61), which is notable for the fact that you need not trade anything to access it. 

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 11:53:59 PM »
I don't think that rashemi necessarily hits anything beyond standard air and earth elementals, which gets rid of a lot of the options you have listed. It's at least a reasonable interpretation, if you consider that the feat may work off of name rather than subtype.
It's a matter of interpretation -- some DMs are more open, thus stat blocks accommodating said openness are needed.  YMMV.

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As for animals, you appear to currently be missing the dire rhinoceros (FF, 61), which is notable for the fact that you need not trade anything to access it. 
Thanks.  I'll put it on the pile.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:30:17 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 09:44:39 PM »
Storm Elementals are up.  Moving on to the rest of the animals.

Offline Endarire

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 09:59:17 PM »
Rashemi Elemental Summoning + Summon Elemental Reserve feat = cone of cold spam.  (That's how I rule it.  Summon Elemental's text says the Elemental acts "as if summoned by a summon monster spell" and Rashemi applies to Elementals you summon with spells.)

If you can somehow summon a Living Holocaust (Fiend Folio), Rashemi applies, too.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 10:28:13 PM »
Storm Elementals are up.  Moving on to the rest of the animals.
Now I feel bad.  I was going to get that done in the next day or two.  Didn't mean to leave it to you  :blush

Offline Garryl

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 11:03:59 PM »
Huge/Greater Orglash Storm Elementals are missing the extra cold damage in their full attack lines.

Ah, Storm Elementals. Proving once again that the best blasting spell is Summon Nature's Ally.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:05:50 PM by Garryl »

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 11:09:09 PM »
Rashemi Elemental Summoning + Summon Elemental Reserve feat = cone of cold spam.  (That's how I rule it.  Summon Elemental's text says the Elemental acts "as if summoned by a summon monster spell" and Rashemi applies to Elementals you summon with spells.)
Yeah, I plan(ned) on making note of that at some point .... it wasn't at the forefront of my mind as I was posting it, and just haven't gotten around to it yet.
Quote
If you can somehow summon a Living Holocaust (Fiend Folio), Rashemi applies, too.
yeah, I ran across that too.  I hit the Monster Finder, and I think we've got everything that there is to be gotten.

Now I feel bad.  I was going to get that done in the next day or two.  Didn't mean to leave it to you  :blush
eh, no need to feel bad -- no worries at all.  You already pumped out 15k words, complete with tags and formatting. 
I'm on staycation, and got bored -- my aim was not to step on your toes.  Luckily I was able to find an OCR scan of MM3, otherwise I would still be holding my breath.   ;)  :D
(I really just hope you haven't got too deep in it ... then I would feel really bad)

Huge/Greater Orglash Storm Elementals are missing the extra cold damage in their full attack lines.

Ah, Storm Elementals. Proving once again that the best blasting spell is Summon Nature's Ally.
Good catch -- thanks.  Fixed.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:30:33 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbood Discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 11:35:16 PM »
(I really just hope you haven't got too deep in it ... then I would feel really bad)
Nope, hadn't even started it yet.  I was thinking of starting it tonight, so it's good I saw this  ;)

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 11:44:53 PM »
(I really just hope you haven't got too deep in it ... then I would feel really bad)
Nope, hadn't even started it yet.  I was thinking of starting it tonight, so it's good I saw this  ;)
okay, so ... do you just wanna knock out Conjure Ice Beast instead?   :lol :lmao



(seriously though, I may get around to that in the next couple of weeks ..... maybe)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:30:54 PM by wotmaniac »

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2014, 06:37:02 AM »
Stormwrack animals are up.



Got a question: I ran across an expanded list from DragMag302, and Paraelementals (MotP) .... how does the fact that these things are duel-elemental interact with Orglash/Thomil?

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2014, 05:16:50 PM »
Got a question: I ran across an expanded list from DragMag302, and Paraelementals (MotP) .... how does the fact that these things are duel-elemental interact with Orglash/Thomil?
Again, depending upon the DM's interpretation of "air or earth elementals" from the Rashemi Elemental Summoning feat*, the appropriate templates would apply (Smoke and Ice paraelementals would gain Orglash, and Magma and Ooze paraelementals would gain Thomil).  I'd have to double-check the exact interactions, but I think that would mean Smoke Paraelemental Orglashes would have both the fire and cold subtypes...

So, what is this expanded list from Dragon #302?  Just a "hey, you could allow people to summon these extra monsters, too," kind of thing? Or what?  I'd always been wanting something more than DM fiat to add the paraelementals as something summonable (an engulfing Magma Thomil... YUM!), but I never got Dragon Mag, so didn't know of this.  I'm just curious what tack it takes: actual rules, or just sort of a "DM whim" sort of suggestion.

*In all honesty, I'd always interpreted it as any elemental with the appropriate subtype, as that is what determines what kind of creatures can have the template.  Admittedly this may have just been lazy reading comprehension on my part.  I think eggynack may technically be correct, but even so, I'd allow it to apply to the other things as well within my own game, and every DM should definitely, absolutely allow it to at least also apply to the elemental monoliths.

Offline eggynack

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Re: Greenbound and Rashemi Elemental Summoning Handbook Discussion
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2014, 07:21:21 PM »
*In all honesty, I'd always interpreted it as any elemental with the appropriate subtype, as that is what determines what kind of creatures can have the template.  Admittedly this may have just been lazy reading comprehension on my part.  I think eggynack may technically be correct, but even so, I'd allow it to apply to the other things as well within my own game, and every DM should definitely, absolutely allow it to at least also apply to the elemental monoliths.
At the very least, it's probably for the best to go by my reading for the havoc that the other reading causes. Once you have this in the any elemental mode, it's a short step to both elemental wild shape and SNA for elemental, X (any) getting you just about every elemental in existence. It's practically a backwards step, actually, as those two things are significantly more ambiguous than this one. If you want a fast reason why that'd be crazy, just check out the elemental avatars from the MM IV, and consider that you get them with SNA V. Also consider the fact that you'd presumably be able to take the black rock triskelion, one of the aforementioned elemental avatars with a CR of 18, and apply the thomil template to it. It'd amuse me, at least.