Author Topic: Blood Palace (OOC)  (Read 71897 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #260 on: March 28, 2016, 11:15:27 PM »
Erudite is banned, point. Soro is right, psionics are completely borked. Also now LCM explicitly cannot be combined with spells that replicate other spells.


 Now for Soro's still relevant questions, I would be willing to accept a feat that changes the main mental score of a mage class, and thoon flayers can be tempted by pacts. Although if any infernal managed to do it, they need to keep it a closed secret, for Thoon will quickly reformat such a rebellious servant at the minimum suspicion of corruption.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 11:17:16 PM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #261 on: March 28, 2016, 11:39:13 PM »
I'm just happy I'm the only one in the party that not only can survive friendly fire from rainy, but benifit from it immensely too :D

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #262 on: March 28, 2016, 11:52:33 PM »
I'm just happy I'm the only one in the party that not only can survive friendly fire from rainy, but benifit from it immensely too :D

Good job, Orange-kun.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #263 on: March 29, 2016, 10:31:28 AM »
I'll start brainstorming other options for my character.  I don't know how good I'll be at helping the rest of the party with death reduction though, I've never been great at playing highly optimized spellcasters.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #264 on: March 29, 2016, 11:36:25 AM »
then bring it up in the thread for LCM rather than trying to use it as justification
You're looking at it in a selfish way.

So you think you spin it as justification for me to use something a hair closer to that silly homebrew, but on my end it's a desperate attempt to keep up with that damn class that you refuse to help balance or not use even through it's already caused the game to crash once.

I meant more that my subtle 8 attacks a turn glass cannon doesn't seem viable compared to Raineh's nuking.
That's because for example as one action the homebrew can quintuple your boom by firing off five freaking Spells in the same Standard Action and it still only uses one Slot. A goddamn Wizard would be hard pressed to even be able cast ten 9th level Spells over the course of the entire day let alone in 12 seconds.  :banghead

Erudite is banned, point. Soro is right, psionics are completely borked. Also now LCM explicitly cannot be combined with spells that replicate other spells.
Still need to find something that can keep up.

Beholder Mage?
Illithid Savant?
Darklight Wizard?
Lightning Warrior? Far too weak.
How about I invent an x4 Class? Literally Sorcerer x4, it's not infinite and it still has less Spells per day & per action than already allowed homebrew.

Actually, even better how about everyone who isn't using the touhou mage & rainbow Maneuvers just have a gestalted option? Everyone else still deserves a chance to keep up to you know.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #265 on: March 29, 2016, 12:44:25 PM »
I'll start brainstorming other options for my character.  I don't know how good I'll be at helping the rest of the party with death reduction though, I've never been great at playing highly optimized spellcasters.

May I suggest a tank build of your choice with a dip of Chaos Cultist with the Martyrdom gift (in the Chaos Style options)?

Erudite is banned, point. Soro is right, psionics are completely borked. Also now LCM explicitly cannot be combined with spells that replicate other spells.
Still need to find something that can keep up.

Beholder Mage?
Illithid Savant?
Darklight Wizard?

Actually if there's a campaign for beholder mage, this would be it I guess. Just don't attempt to bring in any early entry shenigans, you'll have to spend 11 levels on Beholder plus 1 level on something infernal. That'll still leave you 8 levels of Beholder Mage, meaning 8th level spells and 8 spells every round, with wizard learning and spontaneous spellcasting.

No to Illithid Savant unless you feel like every enemy group is bringing it. Not sure what you mean by darklight wizard.


Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #266 on: March 29, 2016, 01:15:16 PM »
then bring it up in the thread for LCM rather than trying to use it as justification
You're looking at it in a selfish way.

So you think you spin it as justification for me to use something a hair closer to that silly homebrew, but on my end it's a desperate attempt to keep up with that damn class that you refuse to help balance or not use even through it's already caused the game to crash once.

If it's not used, how the fuck would you ever balance it? This is about as much help as I'm going to be without some general idea of what 'balanced' damage is supposed to be with a focus on magical attacks.

Quote
That's because for example as one action the homebrew can quintuple your boom by firing off five freaking Spells in the same Standard Action and it still only uses one Slot. A goddamn Wizard would be hard pressed to even be able cast ten 9th level Spells over the course of the entire day let alone in 12 seconds.  :banghead

No clue which maneuver you're thinking gives five spells in one action. I can see three split over two, with the previous two rounds spent to set up.

If a Wizard is trying to use 10 meteor swarms in a day, they're using their slots wrong.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #267 on: March 29, 2016, 01:29:19 PM »
Darklight Wizard is a system restart, you rebegin at level 1 keeping all your Feats & Skills. It's pushed that this New Game+ mode lets you readvance for an additional set of Feats and such. The big deal besides being terribly written & edited is that it's also an accelerated casting class. Which means with it's New Game+ mode means ECL 9 for 9ths. For the most part through, if it's New Game didn't mean new advancement then by the 17th level it's casting hits a forgotten point. Still, it was meant as a joke :p

And Beholder 11th seems pretty arbitrary. Beholder is 13 long but Greater Antimagic is 9th. To be honest it seems like you're cutting me off from 9ths on purpose, it's not like I plan on taking Gate & Wish because even putting Gate on your Spell List implies the intent of total breakage. It'd be like trying to pick up Genesis and misread it or something.

It also means Bard / Crusader / Ur-Priest / Sublime Cord / Mystic Theurge is mechanically superior since I'd still have arms or even Sharn X / MT Y so I'd have even more arms. Hell, even Spell Stitched gives 9ths as a single level dip once your ECL is high enough which for this game it is. Maybe I should just be a touhou mage, I can't imagine how that would be banned or I could go wrong from there. A Sudden Stunning Magical Grimoire could go a massive way into adding CC to damaging Spells with zero effort, like I wouldn't even have to use Black Tentacles.

@RD on Meteor Swarm, I never once implied you actually optimized your character. You used a custom item & broken class and ended up with horribly broke with no effort. For as ridiculous as your PC is, it's barely even tapping into 1% of it's potential.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 01:44:21 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #268 on: March 29, 2016, 01:57:41 PM »
I'll start brainstorming other options for my character.  I don't know how good I'll be at helping the rest of the party with death reduction though, I've never been great at playing highly optimized spellcasters.

May I suggest a tank build of your choice with a dip of Chaos Cultist with the Martyrdom gift (in the Chaos Style options)?


Off the top of my head I'm considering: a Skaven taking one of the Skaven classes and all of the Chaos classes, a Xixecal, a Hellfire Wyrm, a Gibbering Orb, or one of your Touhou classes.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #269 on: March 29, 2016, 02:04:24 PM »
Funnily, that's why I wanted to get rid of it. Because I didn't factor in having that many enemies and the consequent +hundreds to skill checks. Which factored into a maneuver with an area effect.

The class being broken because a maneuver in another school is an odd one. I could have done dolls, but that didn't fit the idea.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #270 on: March 29, 2016, 04:26:10 PM »
No RD the Youkai Class is broken without even having to read it's Maneuver entry. Like the aforementioned Sudden Stunning Grimoire, at the 3rd level you can apply WSAs to Spells. Imagine Valorous or Morphing to a crossbow to add Splitting. And it never gets any better from there, like if you ever wanted to punch your self in the nuts and use a Maneuver weaker than anything found in Love-Magic, the Youkai's 4th Class Feature is the ability to steal any Supernatural Maneuver from any allowed homebrew using Spellcraft as the default Skill just because if someone ever dared to write something even more insane than that Class, the Youkai is also the Illithid Savant of Martial Adapts and has you covered.

How about a corrupted falled-god vampire pleasure devil totally not named Alucard of the Fourstar. "Corrupted" can follow the rules of Saint but inverted to be evil using the actual Template for some guidance. God isn't listed as banned but calling it "Fallen" would fit. Obviously I'm after Alter Reality because yes I'm lazy and wanting enough Spell access to make my life easier. And if you say no, my follow up will be a Greater/Ethereal Doppleganger that ate most the last team because getting nixed wears on the moral when it feels like a losing battle.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 05:23:18 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #271 on: March 29, 2016, 09:30:30 PM »
Soro, you keep bringing Stunning Surge in the Magician class, but it only works with melee attacks. Similarly valorous only triggers off Charges, and splitting only works with arrows and bolts. Thus neither would really work with throwing magic blasts at range.

Also someone else already wrote something a lot more insane than the youkai magician's ability to copy supernatural abilities, but we don't talk about it.

God is fine. Heck, the whole purpose I wrote the class was for players to use it. I'll even allow corrupted Saint on the basis that all the forces of good are pretty much dead/enslaved and working with Hell and Abyss is a very desesperate measure for very desesperate times.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #272 on: March 29, 2016, 09:34:22 PM »
And bringing abilities I haven't used into it as a rationale seems a bit... odd?

Have I given the impression in the past three years I'm likely to do more than: A) blow things up, or B) have really high skill checks?

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #273 on: March 30, 2016, 11:19:33 AM »
Soro, you keep bringing Stunning Surge in the Magician class, but it only works with melee attacks.
What do you think Touch Spells are? And Splitting also says "Any missile fired from a splitting weapon, or an arrow or bolt enchanted with the splitting ability, breaks into two identical missiles before striking the intended target.". Sic: Any missile fired from a splitting weapon breaks into two identical missiles. It'll work just fine with Rays and even Spells with flavor notation of firing something at someone. Allowing WSAs on Spells may seem like a cool idea but the reason it's unique is because everyone else has realized how much text it'd take to construct an idea that limits abuse in the reader's mind.

@RD I know you feel like you have the dual role of defending your PC and the Class because any gamebreaking traits I point out of the Class endangers your PC. But very few of my points on the Class take your PC into consideration. As previously noted, you really didn't even optimize your build to begin with. And that's probably the most terrifying aspect of it, in your hands look what you could do with it. Imagine it sitting in mine and I have a point of order to break it.

God is fine. Heck, the whole purpose I wrote the class was for players to use it. I'll even allow corrupted Saint on the basis that all the forces of good are pretty much dead/enslaved and working with Hell and Abyss is a very desesperate measure for very desesperate times.
First passing look at it will be Erinyes 8 / Pleasure Devil 3 / Vampire 2 / Corrupted 2 / God 5
Domain wise I'll probably invent "Narcissism", "Vampires", "Occult" and whatevs like I've done before. Pretty much Cha++, vamp stuff, and an evil magic domain. It also means my first temptation will be Johova's Witness, "knock knock, you want to let me in..."

Dragon Magazine has a (Meta?)Feat of improves a Ability Bonus received from a Spell you cast by +2. Thought?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 11:23:52 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #274 on: March 30, 2016, 11:55:26 AM »
I'm confused why you'd even want to apply stunning surge on an INT-based class. Having a touch-based effect with its uses per day and save DC tied to your irrelevant charisma looks... redundant? You can cast spells. Even if you used scorching ray or something to get multiple attacks in a round, it still has finite uses and takes a swift action.

For the splitting thing, maybe something along the lines of "Weapon Special Abilities that could only be applied to ranged weapons or ammunition cannot be applied to the [whatever the hell it's called]"? Avoids getting splitting into it, or a free range increase that circumvents the class's inability to use metamagic.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #275 on: March 30, 2016, 12:10:38 PM »
Magical Furnace/Grimoire now can only be enhanced with generic enhancements that work with any kind of weapon and attack, no melee/ranged/missile only restrictions.

God is fine. Heck, the whole purpose I wrote the class was for players to use it. I'll even allow corrupted Saint on the basis that all the forces of good are pretty much dead/enslaved and working with Hell and Abyss is a very desesperate measure for very desesperate times.
First passing look at it will be Erinyes 8 / Pleasure Devil 3 / Vampire 2 / Corrupted 2 / God 5
Domain wise I'll probably invent "Narcissism", "Vampires", "Occult" and whatevs like I've done before. Pretty much Cha++, vamp stuff, and an evil magic domain. It also means my first temptation will be Johova's Witness, "knock knock, you want to let me in..."

Dragon Magazine has a (Meta?)Feat of improves a Ability Bonus received from a Spell you cast by +2. Thought?
I think that you'll already have a pretty stratospheric Charisma score without needing to start bringing in Dragon Magazine cheese.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #276 on: March 30, 2016, 12:50:39 PM »
I think that you'll already have a pretty stratospheric Charisma score without needing to start bringing in Dragon Magazine cheese.
Aww, I appreciate your comment. I doubt I get much more than 50 through. That may seem like a lot but that's only like par+58%.

A lot of Charisma buffs simply are too short acting even with Persist Spell. Others are circumstantial, like you'll probably nix wearing the Horseshoes of Flame in my Boot/Hand Slot because they wouldn't look totally rad stitched to a leader glove instead of being nailed into a hoof so there's a nice +6 Bonus wiped. Snowsong (+4), Drugs (+2), Pact (+1), the Ring (+2), Command (+4), are all out, still picking up Devil's Ego but because it causes loss of the Undead Type I can't dump Constitution or Ability Damage will rape me and so on. I should still be able to hit a decent figure, just not something I'd title "stratospheric".

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #277 on: March 30, 2016, 01:17:11 PM »
If this is going to turn into some sort of inter-party one-upmanship I'm not sure if it's going to be the game for me.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #278 on: March 30, 2016, 01:57:13 PM »
If this is going to turn into some sort of inter-party one-upmanship I'm not sure if it's going to be the game for me.
*shrugs*, it's impossible to out damage the touhou class so I'm playing an entirely different element than combat.

I'm going for Pact abuse now. Basically random mook gets something useful but is signed into a contractual agreement to betray Thoon. And it has the side effect of a 1% chance every day the Devils succeed in killing the target behind the scenes. Due to the way that works, I could figuratively promise Thoon our service on top of the Pact benefits and less than four months later the devils auto-win. However, I can't use Bluff or threats to create a contract, but it uses Diplomacy to hide all the small text like "by signing this you agree to become my slave". So guess who's Diplomacy Check is shooting through the roof.

Vampire was mostly for some defense augmentation and a flavor thing going for invite and how it gives a +22 bonus to a Skill, well I'll break 50 in theory because as I'm typing the sheet up the bonus works on Ability Scores too. So at least I'll have like most epic Bluff Check ever which will be awesome because instead of sneaking in I can just say I work for Thoon. Which also helps create an open discussion for a Pact. And yes, that also means I should be able to dominate anything not using Mind-Blank which should also be useful seeing how grappling people to brink blood is pretty much the worst handicap ever because the other team auto-eats brains by grappling.

If you can't beat them, make them join you.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:02:37 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Blood Palace (OOC)
« Reply #279 on: March 30, 2016, 02:02:11 PM »
Soro, I'll have to agree with Nanshork. Raineh Daze already said she's toning down her character besides the homebrew nerfs. As the DM, I'll have to ask you as a player to show some self-restraint. It's not really teamwork if you're bringing a uber diplomancer into a combat-focused party.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 02:05:25 PM by oslecamo »