Author Topic: Help with archer build...  (Read 5393 times)

Offline Pjacobsen1978

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Help with archer build...
« on: May 06, 2014, 02:00:41 PM »
Hello all.

I need some help with this build of mine as my other character was killed by an ettin mashin his head rather violently with a spiked club...

This is my first ever archer type character.

I see her as a veteran archer/bounty hunter type that can function a bit like a scout as well.

Here is the build stub with feat progression as well.

Wasp Bounty Hunter
1: Ranger 1. Point blank shot, precise shot
2: Fighter 1: weap focus comp longbow
3: Fighter 2. Dead Eye, quick draw
4: Ranger 2
5: Ranger 3
6: Order of the bow initiate 1, far shot
7: ootbi 2
8: ootbi 3
9: ootbi 4, woodland archer
10: ootbi 5
11: Peerless archer 1
12: PA 2, imp. Rapid shot
13: PA 3
14: PA 4
15: Deepwood sniper 1, Manyshot
16: DS 2
17: Justice of weald and woe 1
18: Jowaw 2, imp. Precise shot and greater manyshot (bonus feat)
19: jowaw 3
20: jowaw 4

Any kind of help is welcome :-)

Offline Karlton

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 04:43:20 PM »
IMO, this build is a little unfocused.

1) What material is allowed to you?

2) What stats do you have?

3) Most archers choose either the Manyshot line or the Rapid Shot line of feats. You can't use both at the same, so choosing both lines at once is always a waste of feats. Rapid Shot is usually better at straight damage, while Manyshot allows the character to stay mobile.

4) Speaking of mobile Manyshotters, is there a reason why you don't simply go Scout 4/Ranger 16 and take the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Soundrel (I think)? That way you can definately scout, and skirmish damage would ramp up your damage output to acceptable levels.

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 05:25:58 PM »
Wasp as in the wasp clan (now part of the mantis clan)?  So you're playing an Oriental Adventures game? 

I wouldn't go with order of the bow initiate.  The ranged precision ability is incompatible with both manyshot and full attacks. 

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 05:55:06 PM »
Is my archer build thread still linked in my sig?  That might help.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 10:03:29 PM »
Is this the version of Dead Eye you're using? Dead Eye.  If so, is other Dragon stuff allowed besides Dragon Compedium?

It sometimes gets mixed up with Deadeye Shot which is in PHB2.

If you're using the fist and can use other Dragon material, the Targetteer fighter in Dragon 310 can also get Dex to damage on ranged weapons.

Offline Pjacobsen1978

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 01:27:35 AM »
Sorry if i havent been clear enough... Like i said its my first postinh in here... :-)

Well all material is allowed assuming it isnt breaking the world and ofc pending gm approval.

Yes it is a oriental afventures campaign we are playing.

And yes its dead eye from dragon magazine thst allows me to add dex bonus to damage.

If you read greater manyshot it does say that precision damage is added to every arrow :-) I can put it in my feat tree earlier i guess but im afraid that my bab is too low for it to be effective... Anyways my gm has allowed it as its raw...

Im starting at lvl 5.

My stats at lvl 5 is:

Str: 12
Dex: 17
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 15
Cha: 6

I have standard gold pr. Level to spend so i have bough a bow with the force enchantment.

I hope this is a little more clear :-)

Offline Pjacobsen1978

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 02:31:10 AM »
/bump  :)

Offline lieronet

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 10:55:33 AM »
You're not clearly communicating what you want help with on this build. Are you planning on being a volley archer? Are you trying to do Skirmish damage? In order for us to help, you need to clearly state:

What your goals are with the build
What you're satisfied with in the stub you've posted
What you're looking to improve

For an example, check my thread "Optimizing a Telflammar Shadowlord". I clearly outlined what I was looking for and received quick, useful advice.

It looks like mechanically, you want to apply ranged precision damage, but flavor/RPwise you want to be a sniper, and it's really clashing in your build. I'd pick one theme to run with and go from there. If you want to do volley archery/sniping, straight Fighter is actually really good, and you can mix in some amount of Ranger to keep with theme. For applying ranged precision damage, Swift Hunter builds (Ranger/Scout) are your best bet.
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Offline Pjacobsen1978

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 03:03:20 AM »
Ok... Thanks r the directions Lieronet.  :)

I will try to explain the thoughts on why ive chosen what prestige classes in the build and give an overview on what id like to do with it.

Ive made the build with the Ranger Handbook as primary aid. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4621

First of all i dont get what the hype about the swift hunter build is... In 20 levels i get to add 5d6 dam due to skirmish, in 9 levels of order of the bow initiate i can add 5d8 as a standard action, that means i can still move around... And i can drop the 4 levels of justice of weald and woe to make room for more OotBi.

My reasons as to why Ive chosen the classes in the build I will explain here.

The first 5 levels is a way to get the entry feats and other prereqs to enter OotBi.

The 5 levels in that prestige class gives me:
3d8 in ranged precision, that stacks with sneak attack if the target is denied dex
No AoO for using my bow in melee combat
Greater weap focus.

4 levels in Peerless Archer gives me:
Ranged sneak attack +2d6
Power attack with my bow
+ 3 to craft bowmaking
Ability to make magic arrows
If target has any cover, it becomes one step worse due to sharp shooting

2 levels in Deepwood Sniper gives me:
Keen arrows
Improved critical for my arrows
20 feet extra range increment
Concealment reduction by 10 % if target has concealment
And ability to cast magic weapon for free once/day

4 levels in Justice of Weald and Woe gives me:
A small number of spells from the ranger spell list
a bonus feat
sneak attack + 1d6
once a day i can add +10 to hit with my bow
trackless step

So all in all I have ranged precision damage 3d8+3d6 if the target is denied dex plus a whole lot of other usefull  abilities. I cant see why is would be worse than 5d6 skirmish damage...

I can swap the last 4 levels in Justice of Weald and Woe for 4 levels in OotBi, that will ramp up my damage to 5d8+2d6.

If i forego the manyshot freat tree i can take the feat Dead Eye Shot that will make my target denied dex whenever my party is attacking it. That will make the ranged precision path more viable i guess...

I would like the character to be highly selfsustainable (That fits with the general idea of a gruff and tough bountyhunter person), have the ability to give a good ammout of damage at range with the bow and to give the party some ability to scout of the area ahead ( an ability we are completely lacking atm).
Ive thought my character could stay a little away from the party as there is combat and hide, then on the next round pop up and snipe a target (denied dex) and then hide again. Flavourwise as we are playing Oriental Adventures this is a little against the Bushido, but hey, the character comes from a Clan (Mantis) that is looked upon as being less than honorable anyways...

I hope this information made things a little clearer again.  :)

Offline Waazraath

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 05:04:03 AM »


First of all i dont get what the hype about the swift hunter build is... In 20 levels i get to add 5d6 dam due to skirmish, in 9 levels of order of the bow initiate i can add 5d8 as a standard action, that means i can still move around...

Am a bit in a hurry, but among others:
- OotBI adds 5d8 as a standaard action, so you can't use it with manyshot. A swift hunter build moves around, uses manyshot, and shoots 3 arrows with skirmish damage
- skirmish damage can be quite increased with some feats
- a scout / ranger build with the focus on ranger has a lot of ranger spell casting, which is is nice
- the build as you suggest lacks damage on the higher levels; 1 arrow, even with +5d8 +2d6 sneak attack is just too low

You could try to focus more on sneak attack, adding feats like craven and staggering strike, if you want to take it in that direction.

Offline Pjacobsen1978

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 06:24:59 AM »


First of all i dont get what the hype about the swift hunter build is... In 20 levels i get to add 5d6 dam due to skirmish, in 9 levels of order of the bow initiate i can add 5d8 as a standard action, that means i can still move around...

Am a bit in a hurry, but among others:
- OotBI adds 5d8 as a standaard action, so you can't use it with manyshot. A swift hunter build moves around, uses manyshot, and shoots 3 arrows with skirmish damage
- skirmish damage can be quite increased with some feats
- a scout / ranger build with the focus on ranger has a lot of ranger spell casting, which is is nice
- the build as you suggest lacks damage on the higher levels; 1 arrow, even with +5d8 +2d6 sneak attack is just too low

You could try to focus more on sneak attack, adding feats like craven and staggering strike, if you want to take it in that direction.

Try reading greater manyshot... It says that precision damage is added to EVERY arrow as is critical chance...  :)http://dndtools.eu/feats/expanded-psionics-handbook--65/greater-manyshot--1280/

« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 06:29:38 AM by Pjacobsen1978 »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 09:08:24 AM »
Try reading greater manyshot... It says that precision damage is added to EVERY arrow as is critical chance...  :)http://dndtools.eu/feats/expanded-psionics-handbook--65/greater-manyshot--1280/
Try reading Manyshot.  Using it is a standard action, which means you can't combine it with another ability that is also a standard action (OotBI's Ranged Precision).  Skirmish is not any kind of action, so it can combine with Manyshot (and Grt Manyshot) just fine.

Offline lieronet

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 03:22:15 PM »
The Swift Hunter build gets even nuttier if you take a Cloistered Cleric dip for Travel Devotion. Suddenly you're moving as a swift action and using Rapidshot + Splitting bow to lay down ten attacks at +5d6 each. Add Craven and Dead Eye, and you're looking at 5d6 + 30. Even if you're sticking with Greater Manyshot, you can still lay down the deeps.

The problem with the build is as Waazraath stated, one attack at +5d8 +2d6 is really low in a high-op environment. If you think everyone else at the table is going to take Monk 20 or Fighter 20, it'll probably be good enough, but I don't get the feeling that will be the case.

As a quick aside, Hank's Energy Bow from the cartoon splatbook lets you power attack with it on its own, so you don't need to take Peerless Archer to do that.

I realize this advice is kind of boring compared to the somewhat more interesting build path you've laid out, but archery as a spec works best with simple builds.
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Help with archer build...
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 05:26:16 PM »
Craven only works on sneak attacks, not skirmish.  Complete Scoundrel page 71 calls out Skirmish as not working as sneak attack for the purposes of qualifying for feats and such.  Not all "precision damage" is treated the same way.