One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure

[professorgear]

To anyone wanting to play more than a vanilla human with class levels, please read and observe these rules:

http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html

@Gazzien: Sorry, but as I mentioned in the OP, I don't want to do homebrew in this game. It's just one more thing for me to have to do and one more difficulty in what is already an epic deicide adventure.

Pathfinder's demilich can be found in Bestiary 3.

[Raineh Daze]

CR instead? Knocks Dry Lich down to +3.

At ECL 60, I'd feel wrong trying too hard.

Also, I'd feel stupid playing a demilich. Being a floating skull or hand... :<

So, what would happen if I turned this into a permanent emanation and started casting?

----

Current plan is more or less: craft epic spells I can't fail* to get century-long enormous buffs to my ability scores (in the case of CHA, I think this means another 4400 HP). Permanent Emanation: Greater Anticipate Teleport for a ~250ft warning/delay zone when said goddess shows up to stop me. Move within 40', also having this, and she'd need a natural 20 on her fort save to cast anything (because her automatic save is 82, whilst this is at a minimum DC 92 BEFORE my pre-existing saves). Ditto for a natural 20 required to actually hit, and even then it's basically a scratch. And if I do this somewhere nice and sunny, like a desert, she also can't use her portfolio abilities to show up out of range by scanning in advance. Dimension Door would take care of that, anyway. <.<

Automatic Quickened Spell III (nice of PF to let Sorcerers have this) means I can toss basically anything at her whilst casting the main spell. Would just need to find something that works around divine immunities.

That's less than 1/3 of Epic Feats, at that (Epic Spells are included in Netherese Arcanist if I go for that, otherwise it IS 1/3).

To keep her occupied, I also have a similarly buffed cohort. Perhaps a mellowed out ancient wyrm of some description. Shar vs enormous and buffed lizard, go!

*i.e., I can cast them on my own with no chance of failure. Given their length, and given I'm undead, 100 day and 10 minute casting isn't a terrible drawback. Could add on backlash damage if I wanted, but +75 modifiers to everything should be enough.

[Gazzien]

Sorry, could have sworn it was another campaign that was clear on the no-homebrew thing ( it was both ).

Shar's a greater deity, Raineh. She Literally Always gets nothing but natural 20's.

[phaedrusxy]

To anyone wanting to play more than a vanilla human with class levels, please read and observe these rules:

http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html

@Gazzien: Sorry, but as I mentioned in the OP, I don't want to do homebrew in this game. It's just one more thing for me to have to do and one more difficulty in what is already an epic deicide adventure.

Pathfinder's demilich can be found in Bestiary 3.

Isn't pretty much everything in PF in their SRD? Here is the "awakened" demilich. Not as powerful as the original, 3.0 Epic one (which is in the D&D srd), but probably more balanced and in-line with the rest of D&D/PF rules (the original's magic immunity was over the top, even for an epic monster).

[Gazzien]

To anyone wanting to play more than a vanilla human with class levels, please read and observe these rules:

http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html

@Gazzien: Sorry, but as I mentioned in the OP, I don't want to do homebrew in this game. It's just one more thing for me to have to do and one more difficulty in what is already an epic deicide adventure.

Pathfinder's demilich can be found in Bestiary 3.

Isn't pretty much everything in PF in their SRD? Here is the "awakened" demilich. Not as powerful as the original, 3.0 Epic one (which is in the D&D srd), but probably more balanced and in-line with the rest of D&D/PF rules (the original's magic immunity was over the top, even for an epic monster).

Pity. I liked how the Demilich could "wear" items that were by it's Soul Gens.

And why oh why does a Demilich take longer to return than a normal lich!! 2d6 > 1d10, whether by average, minimum, or maximum...

[phaedrusxy]

No phylactery at all, either... which is a significant hit in power (that's like... the whole point of being a lich). Honestly, I wouldn't bother with it over the normal lich.

It's interesting that the PF demilich is basically a throwback to 1st/2nd edition, where the demilich was basically a "vestige" of a lich which had decayed and "died" permanently, but some of its magical power had persevered in its skull. It had no real awareness, nor true spellcasting ability, though (which is what the "normal", non-awakened PF demilich is, exactly).

[Raineh Daze]

Shar's abilities suck for this kind of thing. @_@

... hell, I'm not even sure you need a dedicated Deicide spell, just find her, use a Quickened Twinned Intensified Meteor Swarm*, followed by just a twinned intensified one (and this is the laziest assault ever). Arcane Substitution (Sonic) or something. With a high enough save... 1152 > 968.

*Capstone for the Arcane Bloodline? No increased metamagic casting time. And with the number of levels this game has, the feats to bring this down to a Level 11 spell are trivial.

Shar's a greater deity, Raineh. She Literally Always gets nothing but natural 20's.

I thought it was effectively always a roll of 20, but not a natural 20? Otherwise having a statblock is meaningless, as that's always a success. For instance, they don't automatically threaten a crit.

[Gazzien]

Shar's abilities suck for this kind of thing. @_@

... hell, I'm not even sure you need a dedicated Deicide spell, just find her, use a Quickened Twinned Intensified Meteor Swarm*, followed by just a twinned intensified one (and this is the laziest assault ever). Arcane Substitution (Sonic) or something. With a high enough save... 1152 > 968.

*Capstone for the Arcane Bloodline? No increased metamagic casting time. And with the number of levels this game has, the feats to bring this down to a Level 11 spell are trivial.

Shar's a greater deity, Raineh. She Literally Always gets nothing but natural 20's.

I thought it was effectively always a roll of 20, but not a natural 20? Otherwise having a statblock is meaningless, as that's always a success. For instance, they don't automatically threaten a crit.

I don't know. It says to treat each roll as if it was a 20... Sounded like a nat 20 to me. -shrug-

[Raineh Daze]

Shar's abilities suck for this kind of thing. @_@

... hell, I'm not even sure you need a dedicated Deicide spell, just find her, use a Quickened Twinned Intensified Meteor Swarm*, followed by just a twinned intensified one (and this is the laziest assault ever). Arcane Substitution (Sonic) or something. With a high enough save... 1152 > 968.

*Capstone for the Arcane Bloodline? No increased metamagic casting time. And with the number of levels this game has, the feats to bring this down to a Level 11 spell are trivial.

Shar's a greater deity, Raineh. She Literally Always gets nothing but natural 20's.

I thought it was effectively always a roll of 20, but not a natural 20? Otherwise having a statblock is meaningless, as that's always a success. For instance, they don't automatically threaten a crit.

I don't know. It says to treat each roll as if it was a 20... Sounded like a nat 20 to me. -shrug-

And in the very same section it says to roll anyway to see if it's a crit. It would also make not automatically missing or failing on a 1 a pointless ability by that stage (and a save bonus equal to Divine Rank). So I've always worked on the principle that it's not an automatic success on every attack and save.

EDIT: Say, do you think Permanent Emanation can be combined with a researched Epic Spell? The Ward seed lets you make an emanation. :O

[Gazzien]

Shar's abilities suck for this kind of thing. @_@

... hell, I'm not even sure you need a dedicated Deicide spell, just find her, use a Quickened Twinned Intensified Meteor Swarm*, followed by just a twinned intensified one (and this is the laziest assault ever). Arcane Substitution (Sonic) or something. With a high enough save... 1152 > 968.

*Capstone for the Arcane Bloodline? No increased metamagic casting time. And with the number of levels this game has, the feats to bring this down to a Level 11 spell are trivial.

Shar's a greater deity, Raineh. She Literally Always gets nothing but natural 20's.

I thought it was effectively always a roll of 20, but not a natural 20? Otherwise having a statblock is meaningless, as that's always a success. For instance, they don't automatically threaten a crit.

I don't know. It says to treat each roll as if it was a 20... Sounded like a nat 20 to me. -shrug-

And in the very same section it says to roll anyway to see if it's a crit. It would also make not automatically missing or failing on a 1 a pointless ability by that stage (and a save bonus equal to Divine Rank). So I've always worked on the principle that it's not an automatic success on every attack and save.

Good point. Still, they get ridiculous bonuses, anyways.

[Raineh Daze]

Permanent Emanation [Epic]

Prerequisites
Spellcraft 25 ranks, ability to cast the spell to be made permanent.
Benefit
Designate any one of the character’s spells whose area is an emanation from the character. This spell’s effect is permanent (though the character can dismiss or restart it as a free action). Effects that would normally dispel this spell instead suppress it for 2d4 rounds.
Special
This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, select a different spell to become permanent.

Seed: Ward
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC:   14
Components:   V, S
Casting Time:   1 minute
Range:   Touch
Target or Effect:   Touched creature or object of 2,000 lb. or less; or 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you

A ward against magic creates an immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere (with radius 10 feet) that surrounds the caster and excludes all spell effects of up to 1st level. Alternatively, the caster can ward just the target and not create the radius effect. For each additional level of spells to be excluded, increase the Spellcraft DC by +20 (but see below). The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the ward, and such spells fail to affect any target within the ward. This includes spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from magic items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the ward. The caster can leave and return to the protected area without penalty (unless the spell specifically targets a creature and does not provide a radius effect). The ward could be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell. Epic spells using the dispel seed may bring down a ward if the enemy spellcaster succeeds at a caster level check. The ward may also be brought down with a targeted epic spell using the destroy seed if the enemy spellcaster succeeds at a caster level check.

So, am I right in concluding that if mitigated (so it can be cast alone), permanent emanation would allow you to walk around with an effective magic-halting bubble?

[professorgear]

You realize the standard rules for epic spells are that each one has to be verified by the DM, even the ones already in the book. I also said I don't care for a lack of creativity, so what makes you think I'm going to give you an epic spell that sets any of your stats at an arbitrarily high level? Concerning an epic ward spell, which I probably would allow, the SRD says "Metamagic feats and other epic feats that manipulate normal spells cannot be used with epic spells."

The Deicide spell, as I thought I made clear in the OP, is not really meant to kill her. 10 rounds is not quick enough to be useful. It's really meant to provoke Shar to get out of hiding. What's more, in the Forgotten Realms, a mortal cannot ordinarily get a divine spark just from killing a deity. So while you could kill her without the Deicide spell, she would either just resurrect at full power, or her divine spark would be snatched by someone nearby who could actually take it.

Also, as I said in the OP, concerning Shar's character sheet in FP, your characters "know that is only an educated guess about her actual powers."

I have still not seen much in the way of character backgrounds. And I thought someone would give me a pointer on etiquette, but nobody has...

That being the case, I'm going to set April 1st as the day by which final character sheets must be done with character backgrounds.

[Raineh Daze]

Because 'creativity' and 'epic spells' equals 'increasingly bizarre stuff'. And that, at least, is straightforward enough to not have the world's most bizarre DC. Also straightforward because more baffling spells would need some sort of purpose to be put towards, presuming the PC has been preparing to kill a god.

That and the same effect is more-or-less achievable just through dint of ECL 60 equalling arbitrarily high wealth and only needing the 'craft epic items' feat.

So, killing her normally is pointless, the spell is just a means of poking her... what, actually, is the character meant to be able to do?

[professorgear]

Survive her onslaught for 10 rounds. Usually the best way to do this is simply kill her yourself. You won't create any problems by killing her before the spell does.

[phaedrusxy]

So you said that the PC will have been holed up in Sigil researching this spell (or whatever). Does it have to be cast/deployed outside of Sigil to work, then? If not, why not just cast it from inside, and rest safe knowing she can't reach you?

And isn't this Deicide spell basically the same crap that Karsus used to kill Mystra way back when? Why is Mystra allowing/helping this to happen again? I thought she banned magic this powerful...

[Raineh Daze]

So you said that the PC will have been holed up in Sigil researching this spell (or whatever). Does it have to be cast/deployed outside of Sigil to work, then? If not, why not just cast it from inside, and rest safe knowing she can't reach you?

And isn't this Deicide spell basically the same crap that Karsus used to kill Mystra way back when? Why is Mystra allowing/helping this to happen again? I thought she banned magic this powerful...

Karsus tried to usurp Mystryl. This... backfired, since the Weave went horribly out of control, and the only way to stop it was to basically reboot magic. And that was borrowing a god's power for a little bit, not becoming a god.

In hindsight, picking the Goddess of Magic for divine power to prevent an apocalypse is rather stupid.

[professorgear]

In terms of the flavor, the reason why it can't be cast inside Sigil is the same reason it makes you immune to the target deity's annihilating strike: because in a very limited sense you share in their divinity. So if you tried to cast it in Sigil the Lady of Pain would ensure it automatically failed.

This is indeed very like Karsus's spell, and in terms of the flavor, you could just say you found out what failed in Karsus's spell and fixed it. We can define that in the cooperative storytelling or leave it an arcane mystery that ultimately couldn't be described in such a way as to be understandable to minds like ours. If we do define it, I think it makes sense to tie in the 10 rounds that it takes the spell to complete. Perhaps it takes that much time to transform your body into an adequate vessel for a divine spark. Mystra did do something to make it so that something exactly like Karsus's spell couldn't be attempted again: she ended leveled spells at 9th level and created epic spellcasting, the idea being that epic spells are harder to cast and more exclusive. This Deicide spell can imitate and surpass Karsus's spell because it is not a leveled spell, but epic.

[Raineh Daze]

What's weird is that the spell slots exist, you just can't use the spells.

Though literally anything is easier than Karsus' avatar to cast...

[phaedrusxy]

In terms of the flavor, the reason why it can't be cast inside Sigil is the same reason it makes you immune to the target deity's annihilating strike: because in a very limited sense you share in their divinity. So if you tried to cast it in Sigil the Lady of Pain would ensure it automatically failed.

Man... it seems like this "spell" takes all the fun out of this challenge... There are plenty of ways, without epic spells, to actually avoid/survive that ability.

0) Kill her before she even gets to act
1) Don't get in range to be hit
2) Be able to come back from being destroyed (lich, Contingent True Rez, Clone(s),  Magic Jar (i.e. it's not your body), etc).
3) "Block" her attack(s) (Wings of Cover, etc)
4) "Dodge" her attack(s): Epic Dodge, Abrupt Jaunt (or other immediate action escapes)

Of course, you could put all of these on one character (which... if I actually had time to build/play in this, is what I'd do ).

Sorry if this seems like heckling. I actually like the idea of this (Long ago I built a character for the old Iron Siege... but never got to play it. Link if you're interested). So even though I don't have time to actually play, I'm definitely going to be in the bleachers, and look forward to an entertaining show.

[Gazzien]

I feel like Raineh and I are going to go about this completely differently.

I was just going to make a spell-created fortress that would prevent her from getting to me for long enough for the spell to go off, while it seems like Raineh is aiming to actually flat-up kill her first.