Author Topic: Fun Finds: 5e Edition  (Read 83463 times)

Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2015, 10:03:45 PM »
EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o

What makes you think this wasn't intentional  :D.

(Now, as a way to sneak the Halfling Rogue past the guards and into the castle... Real question is whether or not you need to breath in there...)
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2015, 02:14:13 AM »
What's the "strongest" familiar? Well, evil is strong, good is stupid. They implicitly designed a horrible outcome for pocket dimensional thieves....

EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o

Pseudodragon has to gather treasure somehow... and it can 'keep you safe' forever

But imps are more inherently evil. Plus they like making their "masters" do evil things. They're like horrible little poisonous succubi, just waiting for you to try it. Then you're trapped, forever. Until you kill the imp. Then you get bored and summon another imp. It's evil too. Eventually you'll go down the dark path of summoning sheep familiars for lamb chops and "kiwi hospitality". Wherever familiars go when they're not around, don't go there with them. Even within a day or two, even with Planar Travel as a spell, you know the DM is going to put you into a compromising situation with your familiar. It's their house. Bad things happen to adventurers that go there.

Don't ever go to a magical squid's house. There is a reasonably large amount of anime describing why you shouldn't.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2015, 05:06:20 AM »
Don't ever go to a magical squid's house. There is a reasonably large amount of anime describing why you shouldn't.

If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2015, 11:49:27 AM »
I still wouldn't advise going to that place.
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2015, 12:03:12 PM »
still, having your familiar gank 90lb of treasure while you distract the boss is probably gonna be a nice haul
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2015, 02:56:53 PM »
Just some quick crunch for benchmarks. Assumes starting 15 primary (typically strength) with applied ABIs, no Race or Magical Items factored, very few Feats (if any, and noted when used). Just to give you a vague idea on things.

Default Ranger (it's pretty much the paladin minus the d8 so let's do TWF style)
1: +4 (1d6+2) & +4 (1d6) = 8
5: +6/+6/+6 (1d6+3) = 19.5
10: +8/+8/+8 (1d6+4) = 22.5
15: +10/+10/+10 (1d6+5) = 25.5
20: +11/+11/+11 (1d8+5) = 28.5 with the dual wielder feat
Hunter: gets +1d8 per round means up to 42 dmg before hunter's mark.
Beast Master: panther, @lv3 14 then 27/31/35/43 before hunter's mark.

Default Barbarian (using a greatsword)
1: +4 (2d6+2/2d6+4) = 11 while raging
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3/2d6+5) = 24 while raging
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4/2d6+7) = 28 while raging
15: +10/+10 (2d6+5/2d6+8) = 30 while raging
20: +11/+11 (2d6+5/2d6+9) = 32 while raging
Path of the Berserker: 22/36/42/45/48 damage while raging respectively.
Polearm Master Totem(any): 9.5/31.5/37.5/40.5/43.5 damage with a halberd while raging respectively.

Default Paladin (also greatsword using)
1: +4 (2d6+2) = 9 with great weapon style (gws)
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3) = 24 gws
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4) = 26 gws
15: +10/+10 (2d6+5+1d8) = 37 gws
20: +11/+11(2d6+5+1d8) = 37 gws
Oath of Vengeance: reaction to attack again, 55.5/rnd excluding smite
Oathbreaker: +5 charisma modifier to damage, 47/rnd excluding smite

Default Monk (using quarterstaff as needed)
1: +4 (1d8+3) & +6 (1d4+3) = 13 when using martial arts
5: +6/+6 (1d8+3) & +6/+6 (1d6+3) = 28 when using flurry of blows
10: +8/+8 (1d8+4) & +8/+8(1d6+4) = 32 when using flurry of blows
15: +10/+10/+10/+10 (1d8+5) = 38 when using flurry of blows
20: +11/+11/+11/+11 (1d10+5) = 42 when using flurry of blows
Way of the Open Hand: 17th+ every other round replace your attack with 10d10, 2 rnd figure of 77 (vs 84 default monk)
Way of Four Elements: fire snake nova, X/50/54/60/64 respectively.

Default Fighter (using a greatsword)
1: +4 (2d6+2) = 9 with great weapon style (gws)
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3) = 24 gws, Action Surge for 48
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4) = 26 gws, Action Surge for 52
15: +10/+10/+10 (2d6+5) = 42 gws, Action Surge for 84
20: +11/+11/+11/+11 (2d6+5) = 56 gws, Action Surge for 112
Champion: requires factoring crits.
Battle Mastery: it appears you can use the same maneuver multiple times; X/66/74/106/138 without Martial Adapt.
Eldritch Knight: no direct dpr gain through spells can alter it.

Default Rogue (using shortsword for finesse as a dex based build)
1: +4 (1d6+2 +1d6) = 9
5: +6 (1d6+3 +3d6) = 17
10: +8 (1d6+4 +5d6) = 25
15: +10 (1d6+5 +8d6) = 36.5
20: +11 (1d6+5 +10d6) = 43.5
Thief: 17th+ reflexes for two attack actions in a single round, 87
Assassin: 17th+ failed save for x2 damage (87), 3rd+ surprise round auto-crit (x2 damage, includes SA dice), total 174
Arcane Trickster: no direct dpr gain through spells can alter it.

I think I may do Spellcasters as well, Cantrip-level only.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 12:36:27 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2015, 12:18:15 AM »
While doing the Rogue there I found something cool.

Quote
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Quote
Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once. For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue’s Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well.
So dipping Rogue 3 can lead to a very powerful opening in combat.

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 01:16:58 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2015, 12:34:43 AM »
What are you getting out of turning into a brown bear if you're using a belt to set your strength?  There's no size increase to weapons and you have to flurry with unarmed strikes, so you're on the monk damage chart no matter your form.

Also throw Half-Orc into that mix and use a Greataxe so you get an extra d12 on those auto-criticals.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:37:46 AM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2015, 12:41:37 AM »
What are you getting out of turning into a brown bear if you're using a belt to set your strength?  There's no size increase to weapons and you have to flurry with unarmed strikes, so you're on the monk damage chart no matter your form.
Gear is the easy part.
Quote from: Wild Shape
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it.
You can simply continue to wear the belt, if you want to push that the belt is the wrong size DM ban! Then buy one designed to fit a large creature (which doesn't appear that you need to anyway). Trivial really.

There is a prevailing argument that Natural Weapons are Unarmed Strikes in 5th. 5th != 3rd, there is no text saying no but...
Quote from: Alter Self
Natural Weapons. You grow claws, fangs, spines, horns, or a different natural weapon of your choice. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the natural weapon you chose, and you are proficient with your unarmed strikes. Finally, the natural weapon is magic and you have a +1 bonus to the attack and damage rolls you make using it.
There is at least one effect that treats them as the same exact thing. Such has been abused on WotCs forums and even has it's own thread here.

Brown Bears have a 2d6 Claw for a Natural Weapon, and so you use that for your Unarmed Strike.



There's no size increase to weapons
Quote from: DMG 278
Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan. For example, a Huge giant wielding an appropriately sized greataxe deals 3d12 slashing damage (plus its Strength bonus), instead of the normal 1d12.
Actually there are Weapon Sizes so it deals even more ^_^
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:47:29 AM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2015, 12:55:22 AM »
I personally view that reading of alter self to be specific to alter self.  Does the DMG give natural attacks any broad rulings?  Natural attacks aren't even in the index.

I didn't dispute the bear wearing the belt btw.  It's still 2 levels of druid to gain an average 1.5 damage over 2 attacks.  2 more rogue levels would get you an extra 1d6 to every attack in your specific scenario.  I do question the bear wielding a greatsword without a mouthpick enchantment in 5th edition.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2015, 12:58:02 AM »
Also wild shape makes no reference to alter self, so I think you need a broader rule to make that RAW.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2015, 01:03:45 AM »
Dude, you're referencing a portion of a spell that fluffs changing the damage type and amount of your Unarmed Strike as growing claws and stuff. A Bear doesn't even have Natural Weapons, it has Claws. They are even labelled as such.

So sure, you can use Natural Weapons as Unarmed Strikes! Too bad the only times the game references natural weapons, it does so as fluff, not as a rules term.

Like you said, 3.x =/= 5e; in 3.x, Natural Weapons were a rule term. In 5e? They aren't.

It's like if I wrote a spell that had the FX of setting you on fire, and said that it let you use the Dodge action as a Bonus action; it would be really silly if you looked at that and went "whelp, being set on fire lets you take Dodge actions as a Bonus action."



Hunter's Mark is only on the Ranger's list (and you can't get it with either dipping Ranger or 6/10 levels of Bard)... so how are you casting it? Also, are you assuming you have it pre-cast on the guy you are slaughtering, or are you taking into account that you need to spend an Action to fire it off?



You also need to reduce the damage dealt a bit to account for AC (not by much, though; you do have +15 to hit and Advantage, after all (unless Oathbreaker boosts attack rolls too).)

Other than that, it looks pretty fine for "spike" damage.



Funnily enough, though, Rogue and Barbarian is a nice combination, even if you aren't trying to break the game. After all, you can use Relentless Attack to get a Sneak Attack off every round, regardless of whether or not you have anyone backing you up.

Also, you can get some good jumps with a good Strength, Expertise, and Rage.



TenaciousJ, Sneak Attack is 1/Round in 5e.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2015, 01:14:26 AM »
2 more rogue levels would get you an extra 1d6 to every attack in your specific scenario.
Quote
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll.
Sadly Sneak Attack only applies once and is only increased by +1d6 yielding +7 damage during a Critical. Comparatively the two Unarmed Strikes at 1d4 deal a total of 10 damage on a Critical, but two 2d6 "Claws" deal a total of 28 on a Crit. Net gain is +18 damage.

Can a smart bear use Weapons? Grizzles do and you keep your Mental Scores using Wild Shape, so questionable but possible.

You may be right on Natrual/Unarmed, it is one of the things that they need to address. I found a link to an Author Blog on WotC before but lost it, they may have something there with a little digging. I'll worry about it tomorrow.

@Amechra, yes apparently Scrolls are limited to your List, this is new. But guess what, I didn't add in Battle Master because it's 12am in the morning. So I can drop Hunter's Mark (56) for Battle Masters +6d8 (54) and still not care. And to scale it by hit chances I'm going to need an average AC by looking at every single example. Guess what I'm not doing anytime soon.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 01:17:16 AM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2015, 01:16:56 AM »
Eh, that works.

Still, you have no legs with the Natural Attacks (could we get another thread for this and other general high optimization Shenanigans?) - using it as part of your build distracts from the other parts of it, which are mostly damn fine.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2015, 01:25:58 AM »
Yeah I forget that about Sneak Attack.  I haven't DMed for a rogue yet or been able to play a character of my own.

I like the build, even though I wouldn't let the Claws = unarmed strikes thing fly at my table without a clarification in errata or by a developer.  I think it would be interesting to stick 2 levels of warlock in there instead for Devil's Sight shenanigans to make it very reliable.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2015, 01:29:08 AM »
More on topic than arguing with SorO... Haste gives you a whole 'nother action. I repeat, it gives you another action.

Sure, it's restricted to a few specific actions... but it can still let Eldritch Knights turn one extra action into ten of them. Just pick up Haste as your 14th level spell, and you're set.

You get three Actions the first round (Action Surge: Cast Haste/Normal Action/Haste Action), then two for the next 9 rounds - pulling off 6~8 attacks per round is pretty nice... I mean, I guess.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2015, 01:32:08 AM »
You get three Actions the first round (Action Surge: Cast Haste/Normal Action/Haste Action), then two for the next 9 rounds - pulling off 6~8 attacks per round is pretty nice... I mean, I guess.

The extra attack on Haste is limited to 1 weapon attack, unfortunately.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2015, 02:37:37 AM »
Eh, thought it was too good to be true. Oh well.
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2015, 09:24:12 AM »
Longstrider got a nice buff for a lvl 1 spell. It's now +10 movement (it doesn't say what sort, so all forms of movement I guess), 1 hour duration with no concentration, and can effect multiple creatures with higher spell levels (not just yourself, anyone).

It might not sound like much, but it's in the "might as well buff with it" category now. Especially good for those with bonus dash actions, full climb speeds (thieves) or all kinds of movement speeds (druids/imps/quasits/alter selvers/polymorphers or just a buff to the fly spell). Gaseous Form might carry the buff as well.

It's hard to say if things like Unseen Servants or Flaming Spheres can be buffed, but you probably wouldn't want to anyway.

It's considerably better than it was, and is perfect for a druid. Not great, but it's fairly versatile in it affecting any movement speed. No concentration is golden on any spell that actually does *something* for an hour. Might be a good stepping stone spell for researching proper high level movement boosters.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 09:27:06 AM by sambojin »

Offline sambojin

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Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2015, 10:37:18 AM »
Heat Metal is one of the best anti-BBEG spells in the early game. No save, just drop the weapon or take off the armour or take damage every turn. As well as being at disadvantage in attacks and skill checks. Sure, they can pass the Constitution save, but that still means damage/disadvantage. It's pretty much win/win, either no armour or bad fighting. Great against many, many enemies.


Slightly off-topic, but.....
My top 5 spells for a Lore Bard's 6th lvl bonus spells would have to be:

Conjure Animals. There is nothing this spell can't do. It's combat'y, transport'y, carry'y and much, much more. Super scalable and will keep getting better with more MMs. Such a good spell.

Fly. Can you have too much flying in your group? No, you can't.

Resistance. Nope, it probably doesn't stack with a cleric's or druid's cantrip, but sometimes you're the only one close enough to cast it quickly enough. But it does stack with inspiration die, so it makes it very hard to whiff the roll. +d8+d4 to resistance is huge, and it gets better as you get bard levels for bigger die. Literally the biggest lifesaver in the game in save or suck, or save or die scenarios. Unlimited mini-bonus inspiration die are great (you'll probably have 3-4 inspiration die per short rest already, but more resistance is amazing in the small ballpark these saves get taken in). That's why this cantrip almost as good as a level 3 spell and on the list regardless. It saves lives even at lvl 20.

Enlarge/Reduce. Enbiggening things is a great buff. While your fighters do their stuff, you've already done yours. Shoot stuff or viscously insult the thing they're fighting. Or play some music and faff about. Whatever. You've already done what you needed to do. You made the BSF really, really big. It's air guitar time as far as you're concerned.

Crusaders Mantle. It's more damage for everyone. But it's only for a minute and it needs concentration. Still quite nice though.


What's the top of other people's lists for Lore Bard 6 bonus spells?

Oh, and a Linky of all the bestiary for the test material and adventures published for Next/5.0 (not my work). Just in case there's some nice druid shapes or Conjure Animal things hidden in there:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AnRnFgA_yyEAdDh4SkVyTDRQWHQxQUtQMTlCam9WQlE&type=view&gid=0&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=Beast&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 10:49:12 AM by sambojin »